Valium/Diazepam Support Group

Okatz - I think deep down you know the answer. You can try cut and hold again but look at the history of you and your friends on here and we all support daily taper. Smiff feels like crap right now and I hope she will chime in and back the daily taper regardless on how she feels right now. The hardest part for me with daily taper is getting to see the warning signs and acting on them right away. What I did wrong end of October was I knew I was pushing things a bit but kept going to finish by Nov 11th becasue we were going away last week of Nov. ..denied!..had to 1 time updose and hold for 2 weeks but everything did settle finally.

Daily taper hands down IMO

etown

You're probably right etown. I am just getting cold feet. My cut and hold was horrendous. I just don't want to start daily again and get in the weeds. Of course, I could make smaller daily cuts than the .02 I made last time and got in so much trouble with. I AM a wimp. I don't want that 18 wheeler anywhere near me!!! Aaargh.

 

Okatz

Hello everyone,  I'm new here.    I'd like to know what the symptoms are that people get when they taper too quickly. 

 

I'm in withdrawal from lexapro and used valium to help me socialise.    (SSRI's can cause severe w/d also)   

 

Two months on 2 mgs of valium daily and I'm pretty sure I have dependance.  When cutting back on the valium I'm experiencing an uncomfortable pain around my stomach and leg pains if I take a walk.  Not to mention anxiety.   

 

Are symptoms individualistic - or are they pretty much the same for everyone?

To Dorothy and Snow White - I'm not sure I can add anything to what others have said, but do keep posting.

 

Don't give up if you feel people don't reply straight away. We are all in different time zones in all parts of the world. I'm in Australia, and quite often by the time I read some of the posts in this section others have already chimed in with a response.

 

Also, sometimes things can get busy here and often we might get distracted by questions from another post. No one is ignoring you on purpose. Just post your question again and someone will reply.

Oregon - same happened tome. Taper at 010mg/day and be done with it. Below 1 you will have to change again probs. Look at Eliz'ssig and follow her lead

etown

Wiser check my signature. Serax (Oxazepam) put me way behind. If I were you I would cross over to 10mgValium and get rid f the Oxazepam. you may be indeeper than you think. Your Oxazepam isequivalent to 7.5mg Valium.

Your symptoms are normal among many others.

etown

welcome to this thread by the way

Hi, I have a question for those of you who are relatively not symptomatic and tapering very slowly daily. What is your lag time? In other words if I now tapered fairly well to 7.5 and I hold for 4-5 days after tapering down from 8mg after crossover from Ativan should I assume I am stable enough to continue daily micro tapering at that dose. Or could a lag time go on beyond 4-5 days to 7 days or longer.

 

I know we are all different however those of you who have been doing this daily mico-tapering awhile have some sense of what amount of time it takes to feel symptoms after a hold if the cut is too much? I am speaking about the difference between a .02 to a.04 cut at 7.5mg. I realize that the cuts may be much smaller going further down.

 

Your feedback would be welcome as I am new to the Valium lag time issue which is longer then Ativan, Concened

 

I think mine has been around 5 days, but like everything else, that is changeable.

I am hearing that lag time could be anywhere from 2-3 days to 2-3 weeks. If that is the case, how many days does one do a daily micro-taper before deciding to hold? Is it for 10-21 days? Or do you just wait for symptoms and then hold? To make any progress I am going to taper .5mg at a time for about 15-20 days and then hold for 4-5 days. Does that seem reasonable as long as I am doing reasonably well?

 

I do feel tension/tightness in my body and mild anxiety, some tingling sensations before it is time to take the next dose. That is daily however once i take the dose, which I split up several times a day, within 30-45 minutes I am fine. I consider that manageable symptoms. I can function fairly well with this. If my symptoms get a lot worse and don't improve when I take more then that would be a problem.

 

I imagine I might feel more that way as I get lower down and have less to spread through the day.  At that point I might need to reduce cuts and hold for much longer till I adapt to that dose. Concerned

 

A lot of people learn to listen to really subtle clues that s/x could be ramping up. For me, I have usually been able to go by low grade afternoon headaches. I used to ignore them - to my cost - but now I don't. So for me there hasn't ever really been a specific time frame of when I would do a hold. I would just wait for the headaches to appear.

Okatz - I think deep down you know the answer. You can try cut and hold again but look at the history of you and your friends on here and we all support daily taper. Smiff feels like crap right now and I hope she will chime in and back the daily taper regardless on how she feels right now. The hardest part for me with daily taper is getting to see the warning signs and acting on them right away. What I did wrong end of October was I knew I was pushing things a bit but kept going to finish by Nov 11th becasue we were going away last week of Nov. ..denied!..had to 1 time updose and hold for 2 weeks but everything did settle finally.

Daily taper hands down IMO

etown

 

I agree with E. I read on another thread (that shall remain nameless...lol...) that someone doesn't post on this thread anymore because they said that where we used to have a combination of cut and hold tapers and daily tapers, we now all seem to be doing daily tapers.

 

Well, I've been hanging around this thread (and the previous valium support blog), for over a year now and I can't say that we have ever really had that many people doing cut and hold tapers here. Maybe that's been for a very good reason. Basically, IMO, daily tapers are just better.

 

I will always feel that you have much more flexibility with a daily taper. When you do a cut and hold, once you do a cut, it's done. You then have to play the game of wondering how long it will be before you get to cut again. With a daily taper, as long as you are attuned to the subtle changes that could be occurring when your taper is getting too much, you can act straight away to ward off the worst of the s/x and the problem usually resolves itself much quicker.

 

If you really want to try a cut and hold taper again, my suggestion would be to use Etown's method of weighing and cutting your tablets. That way you can do much small cuts than you would normally be able to do by just splittiing a tablet.

You're probably right etown. I am just getting cold feet. My cut and hold was horrendous. I just don't want to start daily again and get in the weeds. Of course, I could make smaller daily cuts than the .02 I made last time and got in so much trouble with. I AM a wimp. I don't want that 18 wheeler anywhere near me!!! Aaargh.

 

Okatz

 

You're less than 2mg now. Cuts of 0.02mg are probably too much. I just checked my journal. When I was at 2mg I was doing 0.012mg per day. I would certainly try lowering your daily reduction first, before switching to a cut and hold taper.

My pdoc just rxed clonidine to help w/ blood pressure and some of the night sweats, hp that I've been having at night. Does anyone have any experience w/ this drug?

 

On another note, I got my compounded k today and will start my c/o tomorrow and be finished (hopefully not too worse for wear) in six weeks at 13mg v.

 

My pdoc is still trying to wrap her mind around the whole c/o and taper. One thing that makes this so hard is the WE have to educate THEM and try to cram all this information into whatever 15 to 30 minute block that they have available. Although I gave her the entire six week c/o schedule with all of the mg set out, she still got the v rx wrong and only prescribed enough to cover 13 days. I'm sure this will all work out, but it's a vulnerable position to be in when someone pretty much controls whether or not you will be in manageable pain or caught up in a benzo forest fire. Still I'm grateful that I found someone who is at least willing to work w/ me and does seem like she has my best interest in mind.

 

At any rate, I'm hoping for the best, as I'm an optimist at heart. I had a lovely window today where I felt just fine for about two hours in the afternoon, almost sx free. Of course I'm paying that back w/ some wicked parathesia, mild nausea and icy hot sensations now but it sure was a blessing to feel okay for a little while.

Hello everyone,  I'm new here.    I'd like to know what the symptoms are that people get when they taper too quickly. 

 

I'm in withdrawal from lexapro and used valium to help me socialise.    (SSRI's can cause severe w/d also)   

 

Two months on 2 mgs of valium daily and I'm pretty sure I have dependance.  When cutting back on the valium I'm experiencing an uncomfortable pain around my stomach and leg pains if I take a walk.  Not to mention anxiety.   

 

Are symptoms individualistic - or are they pretty much the same for everyone?

 

Hi Wiser

 

Yes symptoms are usually pretty individualistic. My minor symptom is low grade afternoon headaches if I've tapered too quickly. If I ignore that symptom (which sadly I often do) my major symptom is total insomnia, which then leads to anxiety and depression.

 

However, since I've become a lot more "seasoned" about tapering, whenever the insomnia hits I find that the anxiety and depression aren't as much of a problem now, because I know how to fix it and that it is only temporary.

Thanks Diaz-pam,

I think that sounds about right for me. i believe 4-5 days is also my lag time however I am sure that could change as i go lower. Now that you mention it, before my body stabilized on the valium during the crossover I used to get shoulder and neck pain and some headaches which signaled to me I was in withdrawal as that usually means my gallbladder/liver meridians are being challenged and either I needed to change my dose or hold longer. From time to time that happens now but less frequently. So that is a good clue.

 

Body tightness/back tension and palpitations/tingling sensations are another clue for me and that I still experience each day before it is time to take another dose. I suppose that is normal to some degree. I am not sure that I would reach a point where I felt nothing at all however I am certainly open to that experience should it happen one day. At the moment I am aware of it however it does not stop me from having a normal day. My stamina is also low however that could be also be due to not exercising enough now for a few years during all of these medication tapers that began in March of 2012. I hope that by the fall or end of 2014, this ordeal will finally be over. I do plan to start introducing exercise this year as well.

 

Thanks for your help, Concerned

My pdoc just rxed clonidine to help w/ blood pressure and some of the night sweats, hp that I've been having at night. Does anyone have any experience w/ this drug?

 

On another note, I got my compounded k today and will start my c/o tomorrow and be finished (hopefully not too worse for wear) in six weeks at 13mg v.

 

My pdoc is still trying to wrap her mind around the whole c/o and taper. One thing that makes this so hard is the WE have to educate THEM and try to cram all this information into whatever 15 to 30 minute block that they have available. Although I gave her the entire six week c/o schedule with all of the mg set out, she still got the v rx wrong and only prescribed enough to cover 13 days. I'm sure this will all work out, but it's a vulnerable position to be in when someone pretty much controls whether or not you will be in manageable pain or caught up in a benzo forest fire. Still I'm grateful that I found someone who is at least willing to work w/ me and does seem like she has my best interest in mind.

 

At any rate, I'm hoping for the best, as I'm an optimist at heart. I had a lovely window today where I felt just fine for about two hours in the afternoon, almost sx free. Of course I'm paying that back w/ some wicked parathesia, mild nausea and icy hot sensations now but it sure was a blessing to feel okay for a little while.

 

Sorry, I can't help with your question about clonidine.

 

I'm pleased that you do at least have a doctor who is willing to work with you, and who is willing to be "educated". I am lucky enough to have a similar type of doctor. She has pretty much just left me to do whatever I want to do with my taper and she just provides the valium. In fact, she had never even heard about liquid valium until I told her, but she was totally supportive once she knew about it.

 

Having an optimistic nature will get you 95% of the way. I've found that my optimistic nature has helped me enormously, even when my days were very very dark before I started my taper. I always knew there had to be an answer to my problems, and it was just a matter of time before I found it.... and I did - thanks to BB.

etown,  how was changing over to valium from Serax for you?  I was advised to get off the short term use daily valium 2mgs first before addressing the long term use Serax.    I'm imagining that getting of Serax is really difficult.    Would value hearing how it worked out for you.

 

I'm also confused about daily micro tapering.  Where can I read a simple explanation of it?      I'm going to have to ask a lot of questions.  Diaz-Pam I wrote to you privately.  Thank you so much for responding.  I'm still very confused - is that what you are doing with the milk solution?       

 

I cannot stress enough how severe withdrawal from Lexapro is.    SSRI recovery sites suggest withdrawal from one drug at a time.   

Thanks Diaz-pam,

I think that sounds about right for me. i believe 4-5 days is also my lag time however I am sure that could change as i go lower. Now that you mention it, before my body stabilized on the valium during the crossover I used to get shoulder and neck pain and some headaches which signaled to me I was in withdrawal as that usually means my gallbladder/liver meridians are being challenged and either I needed to change my dose or hold longer. From time to time that happens now but less frequently. So that is a good clue.

 

Body tightness/back tension and palpitations/tingling sensations are another clue for me and that I still experience each day before it is time to take another dose. I suppose that is normal to some degree. I am not sure that I would reach a point where I felt nothing at all however I am certainly open to that experience should it happen one day. At the moment I am aware of it however it does not stop me from having a normal day. My stamina is also low however that could be also be due to not exercising enough now for a few years during all of these medication tapers that began in March of 2012. I hope that by the fall or end of 2014, this ordeal will finally be over. I do plan to start introducing exercise this year as well.

 

Thanks for your help, Concerned

 

Yes, lots of things change as you get lower - as I am learning. Even my "early warning sign" of afternoon headaches seems to have had a slight change lately. Just recently my insomnia ramped up, even though I got no warning headaches. However, after doing a very small updose and a hold, and things improved, then my headaches started, but the insomnia was gone. Still trying to figure that one out...lol...

etown,  how was changing over to valium from Serax for you?  I was advised to get off the short term use daily valium 2mgs first before addressing the long term use Serax.    I'm imagining that getting of Serax is really difficult.    Would value hearing how it worked out for you.

 

I'm also confused about daily micro tapering.  Where can I read a simple explanation of it?      I'm going to have to ask a lot of questions.  Diaz-Pam I wrote to you privately.  Thank you so much for responding.  I'm still very confused - is that what you are doing with the milk solution?       

 

I cannot stress enough how severe withdrawal from Lexapro is.    SSRI recovery sites suggest withdrawal from one drug at a time.   

 

Yes, the terminology used can often get a bit confusing. Basically, the terms "microtapering", "daily tapering" and "slow tapering" all mean the same thing. I personally prefer "daily tapering" because it's pretty self explanatory, while the other terms can be misleading.

so you shave a little bit off the dose every day?    How accurate are the shringes to allow for this?

Wiser - my cross over was seamless from Oxazepam to Valium. You just have to make sure you use the equlalent dose of 7.5mg of Valium. Oxazepam is a fast acting Benzo that accorging to the addiction guy I see is more irritating to the brain than Valium as are all fast acting Benzos. I also added 50mg Trazodone to sleep because Valium is not good for sleep. So far so good. It was a good move for me to cross everything over to Valium to smooth things out. It would have been better to get rid of the Benzos first then the Lexapro but it is what it is. If you can wait until the Lexapro is gone it may be a good plan now.

etown

Wiser I taper with jewelers scales and file a bitoff each day. I can't provide the post becasue I am on my phone but maybe someone else can or just go to substitution taper plan and look for tapering using jewelers scales. It has been easy for me.

etown

Diaz-Pam,  I think it's all in your notes.  I'm so dumb at the moment.  No need to reply.

 

etown,    The lexapro w/d was forced on me when dropped my dose in all innocence.  Can't reinstate coz can't take SSRI's any more (make me too sick).  Since July it's been a downward spiral.    I actually think the Serax might have contributed to the w/d problems with Lexapro.   

 

So basically I have some off the chart fears and phobias and GI issues from SSRI "discontinuation syndrome", but I used valium this last two months to help me get out a bit.  Now feel I have to must it or experience even more symptoms.

 

I've got to taper the valium because it's making the anxiety from lexapro worse.    I think it's called rebound anxiety.  I would love to bundle valium & Serax and taper slowly off bigger dose of valium but it will be hard to identify symptoms given how messed up my brain is from Lexapro w/d.

 

 

so you shave a little bit off the dose every day?    How accurate are the shringes to allow for this?

 

Wiser I taper with jewelers scales and file a bitoff each day. I can't provide the post becasue I am on my phone but maybe someone else can or just go to substitution taper plan and look for tapering using jewelers scales. It has been easy for me.

etown

 

Here is the method that Etown uses ... http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=92221.msg1182191#msg

 

Eliz has another method again.... http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97043.0

 

Of course, I know you have already read my method (in my signature below).

 

All methods are good, and work well. It's just a case of working out the right method for you, and the one you find the easiest to navigate.

Diaz-Pam,  I think it's all in your notes.  I'm so dumb at the moment.  No need to reply.

 

Too late - already did... 

Ok wiser I guess we'll find out just giving my humble opinion from my Oxazepam experience. I hope it works out for you.

 

thanks DP you're a beauty!

etown

Thank you both.    I have to consider what to do.  Was so good to find someone else who knew about Serax.  For a long time I've felt my brain wasn't working right.    Think the Serax is at the core of those issues.    Shouldn't mix it with SSRI's which is what I was doing.    Just got to believe I can dig myself out of this mess.    And whatever method I use i know a slow taper is the only way to go.    Getting my doctor on board will be another issue.    But what's the difference in giving me Serax (Murelax in Australia) or Valium?    As long as I have a plan she should be happy.      Would it take about 2 yrs  get off 10mg of valium - want to go slow enough to avoid problems.  They say it will be 2 yrs to get over lexapro so that way I would be a lot better in two yrs time and not starting to taper final benzo.

 

Many thanks to etown & Diaz-Pam.