One Way to Taper by Dissolving Valium tablets into a suspension

The purpose of this topic is to detail my tapering method so I can add the link to my signature.

Quick background:

Crossed over from Klonapin (clonazepam) .375mg to Valium (Diaz-Pam) 7.5mg following Ashton Manual table equivalent.  Tapered from Valium at .625mg cuts every 3 - 4 days until I cut from 2.5mg to 1.875mg and my overly fast taper rate caught up to me with pretty bad side effects.  I up-dosed to 2mg and held there for two weeks while I went on the hunt for a slower taper method in order to continue.  BB member etown was a superhero and when I contacted him helped me to set myself up cutting .001 grams a day using a Gemini Pro scale.  If you decide you want to pursue this method instead of the one I am going to describe below, please contact him as he was very helpful to me and is always very willing to help others.

When I got to 1mg, I found that the cut rate using the scales daily (which was .013mg daily) became too much for me to handle.  This is when I read through the posts of BB member bart.  I copied his tablet to liquid tapering method and with a few pms to him, was able to wrap my brain around it with no problem.  Here it is:

I am using 5mg tablets and an excel spreadsheet which BB member Cirerecrem sent to me.  The link for the spreadsheet is at the bottom of this post.

Supplies needed

Large metal spoon

Small glass jars

10ml oral syringe

Ora-plus suspension fluid

Ora-sweet suspension fluid (the syringe and suspension fluid can be found on Amazon)

1.  Dissolve a 5 mg tablet by placing in the spoon and adding 6ml of water using the syringe.  Allow to dissolve while preparing the suspension.

2.  Measure out with the syringe, 50ml of ora-plus into the jar

3.  Measure out with the syringe, 44ml of ora-sweet into the jar

4.  Stir the dissolved tablet in the spoon with the water into the jar of fluid

You now have a 5mg:100ml suspension (this is not a solution and will need to be stirred or shaken before taking your dose)

If you use the tables in the link below, save it to your computer (save two copies - one as a master and one to play around with).  At the top of the page, enter the dose which you intend to start tapering from, the date the first cut will happen, the mg tablet you are going to dissolve, the amount in ml of the liquid using to make the suspension and the rate at which you will cut (I use .2ml since that is the marked graduations on the oral syringe and I will not have to try and read between the graduations when measuring my dose). 

If you are going to use all liquid to cut your dose daily this is all the information needed, but as you can see in the spreadsheet, if you are starting out on a dose higher than the mg tablets you have, you can take part of your daily dose in tablet form and just perform the cuts with liquid.  Play around with the tables changing the amount of liquid being used (100, 110, 125ml or whatever) and the amount of mg of tablets you want to dissolve to come up with the reduction rate you want to use.  These tables truly allow you to design your taper rate to meet your needs.

I started out with 5mg in 100ml suspension and reducing at .2ml daily put me at a .01mg daily reduction.  I am now as of December 2013 putting a 5mg tablet into 110 ml of suspension and reducing at .2ml daily putting me at .009mg reduction daily.  When I find the need to reduce my cut rate further, I will put a 5mg tablet into 125 ml of solution to end up with a .008mg reduction daily. 

The great thing about the excel table is that it does all the work for you.  Just enter the numbers and let it figure out the amount of daily reduction and the cut rate.  Keep entering changes in the amount of tablet mg and liquid ml to end up with the cut rate you want to use.

Here is the link to the excel spread sheet

http://www.benzosupport.org/the_spreadsheet.htm

Update

I have had some members tell me that they find the excel tables in the link confusing so I thought I would just enter the actual math for anyone who chooses this method but does not want to use the tables.

5mg tablet dissolved in 6mg water added to 50ml ora-plus and 44ml ora-sweet

This gives you 5mg:100ml suspension

take 5 and divide by 100 and you have .05mg per ml

take .05mg and divide by 5(the number of graduations between each ml on the syringe) and you have .01mg per each graduation on the syringe.  This is your reduction rate when reducing by the graduations on the syringe.  With each .2ml reduction daily you are reducing your mgs by .01

5/100 = .05mg per ml

.05mg/5 graduations = .01mg per graduation on the syringe

Now that you know how many mg are in each graduation on the syringe, you can figure out how many ml you need to take for your dose each day.

Take the figure for what your daily dose should be and divide by the mg dose per graduation figure above. 

If your dose today is 1mg

1/.05=20 so the amount of ml you need to take to get 1mg is 20.  If you have a 10ml syringe, then you would fill it twice to get 20ml

If your dose the next day will reduce by .2ml (or the next graduation on the syringe) then it will be 19.8 ml which would calculate out to .99ml (19.8x.05=.99)

The next day is 19.6 ml which is .98mg

(19.6x.05=.98)

This is reducing daily at a .01mg cut rate

So if you wanted to just keep a log of your dose daily in a note book it would look like this:

Starting dose 2mg

Date        ml    mg

12/16/13  20.0  1 

12/17/13  19.8  .99

12/18/13  19.6  .98

12/19/13  19.4  .97

12/20/13  19.2  .96

12/21/13  19.0  .95

and so on

When you get to the point that a .01mg daily reduction is too much and want to reduce the cut rate, use the same methodology to figure it out.  Let's say you were able to reduce at the above rate until your dose is .70mg and you want to start reducing at .007mg:

Example .007mg cut rate

5mg tab in 140ml suspension

5/140 = .0357mg per ml

.0357/5 (graduations) = .007mg per graduation on the syringe

.70/.0357 = 19.6ml

Now your log would look like this

Starting dose .70mg

Date        ml    mg

1/15/14    19.6  .700

1/16/14    19.4  .693

1/17/14    19.2  .686

1/19/14    19.0  .679

1/20/14    18.8  .672 

You can change your reduction rate using this simple math by adjusting the mg tablet being dissolved, and or increasing the amount of suspension fluid used.  This makes reducing with a liquid suspension a very adaptable method of cutting as you can mix it up to suit whatever cut rate you want to be at each time.

I had this thread moved from the Progress Log Board into the Titration Taper Plans Board because I have received a few requests for help with my method.  I thought it more appropriate to address these requests in this thread.

Update on my status:

I am now cutting at .005mg daily.  This requires a suspension of 200ml and a 5mg tablet.  I do have 2mg tablets but have decided to just use up the 5mg since that is what I started with.  I will probably have a lot of tablets left over after my taper but will return them to the pharmacy using their controlled substance collection program once I am finished.

I used the spreadsheet at the link in the first post to figure out my reduction / dilution rate, but once I did, I just jot my daily reductions into a note pad and do not actually refer to the spreadsheet on a daily basis.  To figure this reduction rate out mathematically, you would do this:

- 5mg into 200ml = .025mg / ml

- .025 divided by 5 (the number of graduations between each ml on the oral syringe) = .005mg so you would be reducing by .005mg with each mark on the syringe.

I am currently at .25mg of Valium and will continue cutting at .005mg as long as I am able. 

thanks for this post eliz. i have some questions.

is it fine to use ora-plus only?

can you use 50% water, 50% ora-plus?

is it okay to dissolve the valium in a few mls of alcohol like vodka instead of just water?

thanks,

SF

thanks for this post eliz. i have some questions.

 

is it fine to use ora-plus only?

can you use 50% water, 50% ora-plus?

is it okay to dissolve the valium in a few mls of alcohol like vodka instead of just water?

 

thanks,

SF

Hi Sigmundfreud,

These are all good questions and the answer to all of them is yes!

I started out using the ora-plus / ora-sweet combo but a few months ago dropped the ora-sweet because even if you order it on Amazon it comes from overseas and it was frequently taking too long.

The ora-plus is designed to be used either full strength or mixed 50/50 with something else it even states this on the bottle.  I would try to use only liquids that do not spoil quickly though and probably distilled water is a good choice.  The reason I say this is because my batch at my current dose is lasting me roughly 20 days.  I keep it in the fridge and believe it or not, I have not had any problems with degradation of the valium.  It is much more convenient for me to not have to make a fresh batch daily.

I break down my tablet in water only because it is cheaper than vodka and the ora-plus will make a suspension only not a solution.  Other members who titrate with a vodka/water mix do so because valium is vodka soluble and vodka is water soluble - this creates a true solution.  With all that said, there is no reason not to use vodka if that is your preference.

I hope this helps!