in despair after so called psych appointment

I attended my appointment as planned this morning. Problem was that I saw someone who looked about 12. The whole thing lasted about 2 hours. In fairness everything was laid bare and it was very comprehensive.

 

Unfortunately he now has to consult further with a doctor and will call me back tomorrow. Various options were discussed:

 

1. Going away to a 'facility' for 4 weeks.

 

2. Switching to diazepam.

 

3. Tapering through my GP again using diazepam.

 

4. Staying at a local hospital for a rapid detox over 2 weeks.

 

5. Counselling.

 

I was also asked some pretty personal questions which were deeply upsetting.

 

There is clearly no way will I be given clonazepam. Of course I can still order my own supplies from Internet vendor@ $90 for 100 x 2mg tablets.

 

At the moment I am inclined to go with the latter but will keep an open mind until I receive call tomorrow.

 

That is a pretty accurate summary of the session and frankly I am frustrated.

 

I am currently taking around 10mg clonazepam per day. Please tell me what you think about all of this.

 

God bless

 

dandyhighwayman

Did he/she say why you can't be given Klonopin?

Apparently in the UK clonazepam isn't licensed for anxiety/stress. It is only licensed as a 2nd line drug for epilepsy and other associated illness. Strange but true.

Hi Dandy,

 

I have been following your posts but this is my first time responding. I'm very glad you kept your appt. and although you are frustrated it seems to me that you've been given information that can still be helpful to your getting off the klonopin.

 

I happen to like options 2, 3 and 5

 

With these options you will have the benefit of being under a doctors care while (hopefully) doing a slow taper and you will get the support of the counseling, along with us here at BB of course.

 

Options 1 & 4 seem way to harsh for me. I've seen here at BB people go through some REALLY tough stuff going that route.

 

Having said that, once I found a type of taper I was comfortable with pursuing, I brought that plan to my GP and she was willing to let me do it my way. She only requested that I send her an email every 2 weeks with my progress.

 

I suppose that if you find you can't cross over to diazepam or your GP expects a "too rapid" taper you could do your own taper via klonopin from your current source.

 

I really do hope though that your GP will be supportive of a plan that you are comfortable with. This is hard enough to get through and we certainly don't need the frustration and fear of our doctors not understanding that a slow taper is the best way to go. I'm pulling for you Dandy. I know that one way or another you can do this. We will all get through it together.

 

My very best wishes and God Bless you too!

hopeful2013

Dan: Many buddies have found that crossing over to the longer acting Diazepam and then tapering from that drug has proven successful and fairly comfortable in terms of tolerable withdrawal symptoms. It is a viable option worth considering. Rapid detox over a 2 week period is quite hellishly uncomfortable, and brings with it the increased possibility of protracted withdrawal symptoms that may persist for quite a few months, if not years. Generally, such rapid detox plans are discouraged for these reasons.  If your goal is to remain relatively comfortable and also fairly functional during your taper, it would seem that the greatest probability of achieving this would be a sensible gradual taper using Diazepam. Everyone's experience differs, but quite honestly, a two week detox is simply quite a horrific experience leaving you in a state where your central nervous system still requires adequate time to heal. You may not be very functional after a rapid detox - but again, everyone is different. I am merely reporting what I have observed to be the norm for the majority of those using the rapid detox method. The slower method using Diazepam, which is generally more widely

recommended and better tolerated, allows the nervous system time to adjust and repair and generally results in outcomes that involve less protracted withdrawal sequelae.  Of course, the final choice is yours based on your own individual situation and needs.  You also have indicated that you have guaranteed access to clonazepam. It is also viable to plan your own slow taper directly from this drug. Many buddies here can assist you in planning a slow taper plan using clonazepam. 

 

Hi Dandy -

 

According to Ashton's Equivalency Table, 10 mg Clonazepam = 200 mg Diazepam.

 

 

I don't know if it is possible to find a doctor that will write that much. Unless you get it from an alternate source, this is problem number one.

 

Number two is that you are looking at basically a cold turkey detox which will have long term problems.

 

 

I don't think this meeting was a solution at all.

 

 

I hope you can find your remedy Dandy. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Obsid

 

I realise that I am on a very high dose of clonazepam and to receive equivalent doses of diazepam is unrealistic. Of course I appreciate some discomfort is inevitable and a switch to diazepam at a reasonable level would be fine.

 

I just don't want to be in a position where I have nothing in the house at all. I guess it's a waiting game until the promised call tomorrow. I totally agree with you about a 2 week detox in a state hospital which likely be horrendous.

 

I currently have about 70 clonazepam tablets remaining so I have some leeway.

 

Kind regards

 

D

Dan,

 

You could start a slow taper from the clonazepam, then when you get to lower doses cross over to diazepam for the remainder of your taper. You have some good viable workable options here.

Dan,

 

You could start a slow taper from the clonazepam, then when you get to lower doses cross over to diazepam for the remainder of your taper. You have some good viable workable options here.

 

I think this is an excellent suggestion.

I agree with Obsid and Hope. A taper down to a reasonable level of Klonopin, followed by a crossover to Valium (diazepam) seems to me to be the most reasonable solution.

 

I don't recommend in-patient treatment, either the two-week or four-week. The overwhelming opinion here at BB seems to be that tapering slowly on an outpatient basis is best.

 

The counseling is up to you. Considering your earlier posts, for which you've asked people to forgive you, I suspect you may have some issues that could benefit from some 1:1 counseling, or even group therapy.

 

I hope you figure it out. Whatever you decide, just know that you are looking at well over a year of tapering and then dealing with anything that arises once you finally jump off benzos. It's a long row to hoe...

 

Best wishes,

 

Tex67

 

I don't think this meeting was a solution at all.

 

I hope you can find your remedy Dandy.

 

 

Perhaps Dandy saw a different doc than the one he mentioned before.  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=87597.msg1132960#msg1132960  "Therefore I will undertake controlled taper under supervision of my doctor once results from procedure are available .  He is an excellent doctor well versed in benzos withdrawal issues."

This sounds like a great plan Dan. Taper as fast as u think safe on the clonazapam. U really need to work on ur anxiety whether on ur own or with professional help. Practise relaxation techniques several times per day.

 

U can do it!

I find that when I withdraw it is mainly physical and I am writhing around in agony. Dependent upon tomorrow's meeting phone call I will just have to go to my  own family doctor and beg.

 

Otherwise buy more clonazepam from Internet which i don't really want to do. I have enough clonazepam for about 10 days.

 

I am naive I know.

 

Thanks to everyone for trying to help me I feel so humble that so many people should care about my welfare.

 

God bless you all

 

Dandyhighwayman

Dandy,

 

I agree with others, it's highly unlikely that any doctor will cross you over to diazepam at the dose you are on.

 

I also think because of your history and how easy it is for you to obtain these drugs, that you need supervision, close supervision to assure you adhere to whatever plan you decide on. Is there anyone that can stay with you for sometime? 

 

You can also plan your taper now based on the Ashton Manual. You are an engineer, write down your plans and taper amounts and decide that this is what you are going to do.

 

pianogirl

And avoid avoid avoid glutamates in your diet, drinks, and personal products. They make sx SOOOO much worse.

 

 

Great to hear from you pianogirl

 

I am in constant contact with my brother although he lives 150 miles away.

 

I am going to stay in bed tomorrow have plenty of food etc.

 

Going to try and relax and attempt cut to 9mg which is still a lot is it not?  I took 10mg today because I was stressed.  Worth a try at least.

 

Will see how it goes but I am adamant not going to hospital again. Will not touch alcohol.

 

Do you think I have a fighting chance?

 

Thanks

 

D

One love

 

Excuse ignorance what do you mean glutamate and personal products.

Of course u have a chance Dan. It's a big decision, a big choice but we all have faith in u. It was a tough choice for all of us. Stay on the meds forever and live a hollow life?  Or get off and actually enjoy life rather than numbing things with pills.

 

Like PG said, start by writing out a plan. U can post ur plan here for feedback if u like. We can help u out if u like.

 

One day at a time my friend. In a year from now this will all look like a long dark tunnel behind u....

Great to hear from you pianogirl

 

I am in constant contact with my brother although he lives 150 miles away.

 

I am going to stay in bed tomorrow have plenty of food etc.

 

Going to try and relax and attempt cut to 9mg which is still a lot is it not?  I took 10mg today because I was stressed.  Worth a try at least.

 

Will see how it goes but I am adamant not going to hospital again. Will not touch alcohol.

 

Do you think I have a fighting chance?

 

Thanks

 

D

 

Dandy,

 

Be careful to follow a careful and strict taper plan. That is the best way to assure success. Have you read the Ashton Manual yet?  When you are tapering there will be discomfort at times, its important to recognize this and not updose because of that. It's too easy for you to simply take more when you are stressed or upset.  You have to find a way to stick to a plan, a workable plan.

 

Of course you have a chance, it will depend on your determination and commitment. Many times the things that are worthwhile in life don't come easy.  Look at Beethoven who wrote the most remarkable music after he lost his hearing. 

 

pianogirl

Dan,

 

You wrote that withdrawal leaves you writhing in physical agony. This is generally an indication of a large and/or overly rapid drug reduction. Yes, SOME discomfort is expected, but what you are describing sounds horribly unendurable. If and when you decide to taper, may I suggest being overly cautious and very prudent with your initial dose reductions both in terms of size and speed. Start very small and hold each cut so that you remain reasonably physically comfortable until you can establish the size and speed of reductions that you are able to tolerate. While this process is lengthy, at least it allows for functionality. Anyone who has to experience 'writhing agony' during withdrawal  can't possibly be expected to endure this level of discomfort for a protracted period of time, subsequently and understandably leading to reinstatement. Being extremely conservative with your

first foray into tapering will hopefully help avoid any extreme discomfort, thereby increasing your chances for continuing the process successfully.

 

You mentioned cutting back to 9 mg tomorrow. While a 10% cut is not unreasonable, perhaps start smaller for now until you have a firm taper plan in place. Even 5% initially and seeing how that goes would be a more careful start. (Even smaller for the first few weeks until you build up your confidence and establish your individual response to these cuts).  As you gain a bit of ground, then you can start making larger cuts. I just want this to be a successful experience for you - one free of

extremes in physical discomfort.   

Yes have  browsed Ashton. Been around for ages. I recall posting asking if she was the foremost guru in the field?

One love

 

Excuse ignorance what do you mean glutamate and personal products.

 

http://pharmacistkeith.blogspot.com/2011/06/glutamates-what-are-they.html

 

There are many more than listed in this link so I will try to find you more info too. These act as excitatory neural toxins and make our symptoms LOTS worse. They are also in lotions, soaps, shampoos, deodorants, etc. I've just discovered I've been poisoning myself with a popular brand of organic shower gel and shampoo!! I'm pretty sure it is responsible for the very bad wave I am having right now.

 

Magnesium is an antidote of sorts to glutamate overload. If you can, soak in an Epsom salt bath. It can help remarkably. Im about to get in one right now as i am in crisis myself!  Do NOT use soaps when you do and air dry afterwards if you can. Three to four cups of Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) work for me when I am in a bad wave. Don't ingest Epsom salts orally while in this condition.  Taking magnesium glycinate can help a lot too, but don't take it within 2 hours before you dose or an hour and a half after you dose. It can block uptake of the benzo.

 

:thumbsup:

Thanks one love

 

God bless you

And listen to what Obsid said!!!

 

If you cut doses too drastically, you will likely end up back in ER again. And you will suffer NEEDLESSLY. If you are going to suffer, at least do it in small tolerable amounts while you are making PROGRESS instead of setting yourself back.

 

 

My doctor is very benzo-wise and compassionate, and due to the (relatively) high dosage that I was on, he told me that we would have to taper down from Klonopin for awhile before he was willing to cross me over to Valium. He told me straight up that it was too risky on his part, as far as the DEA and everything. I guess the DEA doesn't  follow the Ashton equivalency chart  They have no problem prescribing 10+ mg a day of xanax/klonopin, but 200 mg of Valium a day will get your Dr. in trouble