MSNBC: Clinic in US switching all Xanax patients to "no withdrawal" Clonezepam!!

Holy cow, I can't believe the medical community is so far out of touch with reality!!!!  Today's article says a clinic in Kentucky has been "moving" all their 3,000 Xanax prescribed patients to Clonezapam because Xanax is too dangerous; but, and I quote, "'They don’t get the high that’s associated with Xanax,' Dr. Hedges said, 'nor the withdrawal associated with it.'"

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44518086/ns/health-addictions/

 

Granted, clonezepam has a much longer half-life than xanax, and is somewhat self tapering.  But we know that it is just as strong as xanax mg for mg, and has equally horrific withdrawals.  I feel very sorry for their patients, as I have yet to see any medical organization that understood how long or hard a cross-taper can be, and how often it doesn't work.  Much less withdrawal.  What do you want to bet that patients are being switched without any cross-taper what-so-ever??

 

Another thing that pisses me off is the slant of the article--that these patients are simply addicts who don't have the mental fortitude to handle their drugs responsibly.  The idea that much of the addiction (and I know in my case, 100%) is of a physical nature and not a mental one doesn't seem to enter their line of thinking at all. 

 

I get so disgusted reading stuff like this.

 

That is just crazy!

 

 

I feel sorry for the patients and i am sure when the patients have withdraw the doctors will say they are just physco then put them on more meds to mess them up.

where are the lawsuits on theses doctors? 

KY has the highest rate of Rx drug abuse in the country. They should know better than that!!!! Those poor people...they are in for a real nightmare. I hope some of them find out the truth before it's too late!

I went there and kicked up some dust with a few comments.

 

Someone there said it's faulty parenting that is making people panicky! 

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last year reported an 89 percent increase in emergency room visits nationwide related to nonmedical benzodiazepine use between 2004 and 2008. And here in Kentucky, the combination of opiate painkillers and benzodiazepines, especially Xanax, is common in fatal overdoses, according to the state medical examiner."

 

Nonmedical Benzodiazepine Use.  I'd like a definition for this.  Because if it refers to people taking xanax without a script, without a doctor's instructions just to get a high then I have a different approach.  Can we move these people to Heroin instead of moving justified patients to Clonazepam? 

 

I'm tired of us being undermined by drug abusers blaming the drugs.  While we all agree that benzos are inherently bad for long term use, you cannot force people to rapidly come off them.  I bet these doctors reject the concept of w/d or a slow taper.

 

Christopher

 

 

OMG you have got to be kidding me.  What is about the medical community and the issue of clonazepam not being addictive.  The p doc I saw told me many times that I would not become addicted because I didn't have an addictive personality and he had never had a patient become addicted.  Well thats because they never go off the drugs and if they try they are told its mental and they need to take more.

 

Everyone must have had my doc; Dr. Phil Us Up With Drugs

 

pianogirl

That is just crazy!

 

 

 

Where do we get to jump up and down and say we are not crazy? Or maybe we shouldn't jump up and down. I haven't read anything on this board about "non-prescription" use. I was looking through some of the psych literature, for answers.... I did find an article that was entitled "Addiction by Prescription". That says it, doesn't it. The article was excellent. Went to the article and the picture at the top of the article was someone taking a pill.  I would rather have seen a picture of a Dr.'s script, but at least that was in the right direction.

Sounds like these clinics they talk about are mainly for the poor. Like they even said its an "experiment" :tickedoff:Those with $ will still be able to get xanax.

I really feel sorry for those peeps who are being told that klonopin is "no withdrawl"

Im going to try and email them and ask them not to tell the peeps that.

Here is what I wrote them ...to ombudsman@sevencounties.org

 

I just read the msnbc

articlehttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44518086/ns/health-addictions/

and I just hope that you folks ARE TELLING these people that klonopin is

just as addictive as xanax. Because as you know>..it is. Yes supposedly

its easier to taper off of and get ready to help them DO just THAT

because its coming.

Please make your doctors aware of Professor Heather Ashtons

work.http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

Thank You

 

Actually I think that these guys are TRYING to do good, Im just not sure theyre going about it the right way,

so basically I tried to keep from appearing angry, no one listens to an angry person.

"“They don’t get the high that’s associated with Xanax,” Dr. Hedges said, “nor the withdrawal associated with it.”

 

The eventual goal is to wean patients off clonazepam, too, he said. People with severe anxiety should ideally take an antidepressant as well as a benzodiazepine, he said, and learn coping mechanisms with cognitive behavioral therapy. "  From the article...

 

I almost couldn't believe this thread about using clonazepam because there is no withdrawal. l wouldn't wish clonazepam on anyone, but I almost wish some of these Drs. would try them themselves, because well, people don't get addicted to clonazepam and well, there is withdrawal associated with it, so why not? Maybe for a few months, because they are no problem.

But the funny thing is that they think they will wean people off clonazepam eventually. I guess that gives the people time to get addicted. Sad.

 

Now, after that small really pissed off rant, I will go and send an e-mail. 

Roger That!

Ok , i have received a response from Scott Hedges from my email that I sent to him, he gave me prmission to post it here so here is the conversation starting with my original email then his response and after that my second letter to him:

 

I just read the msnbc

> articlehttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44518086/ns/health-addictions/

> and I just hope that you folks ARE TELLING these people that klonopin is

> just as addictive as xanax. Because as you know>..it is. Yes supposedly

> its easier to taper off of and get ready to help them DO just THAT

> because its coming.

> Please make your doctors aware of Professor Heather Ashtons

> work.http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

> Thank You

>(my name here)(currently tapering off lorazepam)

 

 

Dear Mr. (my name here)

> 

> Thank you very much for taking time out of your day to provide Seven

> Counties with some great feedback on an issue with which we both share

> grave concerns.  We are familiar with the Ashton Manual and our team is

> using some of it's guidelines.  For better or for worse, news stories

> such as these only tell part of a much more complex story.

> 

> It is our goal to treat panic and anxiety disorder with the best,

> state-of-the-art, scientific demonstrated practices.  As I read the

> current literature, that would indicate that if we use benzodiazepines at

> all, we should do so sparingly and for short periods of time.  Our long

> term goal is to move in that direction, but, as I am sure you can

> appreciate, we had much ground to make up.

> 

> Again, thank you for your great feedback and taking the time to write us.

> 

> Warmest regards,

>

> Scott T. Hedges, MD

> Senior Vice President - Medical Services

> 502-589-8615. ext. 1260

> HOPE Happens Here

> www.sevencounties.org

> Mental Health • Developmental Services • Addiction Treatment

 

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the reply, Heres a link to a site which im a member of that

provides (needed) support for peeps withdrawing from benzos

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=38504.0

and talking about your clinics new policy. Maybe you can benefit from

hearing this discussion and other topics on the site. I hope you can

because even if what you read may sound angry the ultimate goal is to

help with the nightmare of tolerance withdrawal and withdrawl. Id like

your permission to post your response there or if you have a alternate

response then id say either way send it to me with permission to post

it because this will keep the conversation going and some insight may

come out of it. Actually, IMO your response addresses some of the

concerns, im glad that you folks seem to understand the gravity of the

situation.

thanks

 

---------------------------------

Ok well he sent me a response to the last email as well (i didnt ask for permission to reprint it so I wont) but basically he has come to this  site and read a bit and said he was glad to get the link and found it instructive. he also said that he regrets any frustration caused by an "abbreviated or edited news story" and says that we all want the same ultimate goal.

 

IMHO... Theyre trying (in desperation) something with good intentions that is actually pretty risky because personally I think that klonopin is more addictive than xanax (and definitely more sneaky).

Theyll probably weed out some recreational benzo abusers but create more long term benzo users who many of which will eventually have to face the extreme difficulty of tapering klonopin.

 

At least Mr Hedges has come here, to this site where he can gain a unique insight into the difficulties and proper process of benzo tapering. I hope he reads a lot.

 

Im going to start another thread right now asking experienced peeps to vote on which is more addictive , klonopin or xanax.

 

One more thing, I think its very good to write to or call peeps regarding benzo WD. But I say please try not to speak in anger, but rather with intelect and facts

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am so glad to hear that he took the time to get to this site. We are certainly all sharing variations on the same journey and the MDs should be aware of what they are getting into for themselves and for the people they give these drugs to.

I really, really take to heart what you said about trying not to be angry. I have seen this strong response to articles without showing anger both by you and by Christopher. I really think you are right about being seriously concerned but not angry. Personally, I don't yet think I can write a civil response to an article like that, so I won't write any. I am just really glad that some of us can move forward in this goal to educate. I hope to be able to join you, soon. In the meantime, I am just so glad to be able to read your interactions with the press. Thank you.

Thanks hanna!,

if you read my original email to him you can kind of tell that I was barely holding it back.

Once he responded and said that they were using some of Ashtons techniques i was glad i didnt entirely rant as further communications brought him here where IMO is the best "view" of the effects of benzo withdrawl anywhere.

if I was angry not only would that have been inappropriate but I might have not got a response at all.

  I truly hope he comes back here and reads more, theres so much to be learned and and so much at stake.

 

Hi What2do,

I just reread your first e-mail to them and I had to grin a bit. You did sound like you were just holding it together - but I guess you did it enough to get them to listen to you and respond. Glad you did your ranting here. It helps the rest of us blow off steam by association. I can't agree more about this site being a very good insight into benzos - what is it, about 500,000 posts?

I agree that he should come back here. There are a lot of drs. who would benefit from taking a look. You are not kidding about much being a stake. Every sufferer here would agree with you.

It's sick and cruel.

 

From what I gather, withdrawal from Xanax tends to cause anxiety symptoms, clonazepam's withdrawal symptoms tend to be neurological in origin.

 

Clonazepam is an epilepsy drug !

 

Not that long ago I read an article claiming that clonazepam/Klonopin was 'underutilised' !

 

If you can handle the anxiety/panic while withdrawing from Xanax, withdrawing from Xanax is probably 'easier' than withdrawing from clonazepam.

Doctors usually have no idea how potent clonazepam really is. The thing is, it's an extremely potent anticonvulsant and once you're dependent on it you have to deal with withdrawing from a very potent anticonvulsant benzo, anticonvulsant action that wasn't needed in the first place !

 

While I'm not sure, the physical withdrawal from high doses of clonazepam tends to be more prolongued than withdrawal from Xanax.

 

In all honesty, I have never taken Xanax.

 

As far as Valium/diazepam is concerned, the drug has a very fast onset and tends to be euphoric for many people. So I don't think they'll switch patients from Xanax to diazepam.

 

Btw, clonazepam can cause a high. I don't think it has less abuse potential, it's just a different drug.

 

It's also cruel to force people on antidepressants. While they may help with the symptoms, the way they work is probably by flattening emotions all the time.

Agree with much of previous post, but beg to differ a bit based on personal experience. My dose of clonazepam was essentially cut in 1/2 in one swoop. It was a bit more complicated than that, but close enough. I experienced fierce anxiety. I had anxiety attacks and had never had them before in my life. I am not sure if this is unusual, but I think it happens.

That being said, I can't agree more, Liberty, withdrawal happens, regardless of the benzo.

I wish the Doctors that prescribe these drugs would try them.  If they could only see someone close to them suffer, maybe they would get a clue.

Loodidoo,

I could not agree with you more  :yippee:

If the drugs are not really a problem, anyone could take them and get off them with ease, right?

I have to agree with Christopher, when about a week back he suggested (and I paraphrase liberally here) that knowledge is our best weapon. I am also working on increasing social consciousness in the tiny corner of the world I live in, when I can manage it.

Hope your suffering is easing - from whatever state you might be at.

wow.. I almost thought it was a joke. Amazing... I'm speachless.

(face in hands..)

I feel so bad for their patients....