We will win!

Hey all!

 

I joined to ask for guidance on tapering benzos. I'm a short-ish term user, on a relatively small dose, but wanting to get out of this game before I'm in too deep.

 

I'm currently on 0.5 mg lorazepam + 2 mg diazepam, trying to cross over fully to diazepam and go from there (this is where I need advice).

 

I've been using lorazepam regularly (meaning every day) for MAYBE 20 days (that's a liberal estimate). Before that I've used it sporadically, but gradually became more regular. Before lorazepam I've been using low dose diazepam (1-2 mg) on a on-need basis. I went through 5 packs of diazepam (thirty 2 mg tablets per pack) through 5 years - that's how sporadically I used them. However I noticed I've become more regular especially with lorazepam over the last two months. And that's why I'm here

 

Time to stop all of that stuff. Hopefully I'll be able to do it relatively fast. I need guidance though!

 

Thanks for reading!

 

Hello wewillwin,

 

Can you tell us if you've noticed any odd symptoms that you can attribute to your benzo use?  There are many who can stop these drugs with little to no problem, I'm hoping you're one of them?

 

It sounds like you have a supply of both Diazepam and Lorazepam, are you wanting to switch to Diazepam only because you've heard of the Ashton method or are you more comfortable with Diazepam?  This is the equivalency table we typically use for Diazepam crossovers.  https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

 

Sorry for all of the questions, the answers will help us help you. 

 

I'll give you some links to get you started but look forward to hearing more of your story.

 

Pamster

 

The Ashton Manual

 

Planning Your Withdrawal (Taper Plans)

 

Withdrawal Support (during your taper)

 

Hey Pamster, thank you for your reply!

 

I'll write a lot about my past and how I got here because it will probably be relevant. Sorry for the long post ahead, I'll try to be brief as much as I can.

 

I suffer from OCD and anxiety. I suffered throughout my whole life but it was manageable. 7 years ago I started paxil which helped but I still had symptoms. Some time during those 7 years, my anxiety caused disturbed sleep so I got prescribed diazepam. As I said in introduction, I used it very sporadically and usually in 1 mg dose.

 

Approximately one year ago I started tapering paxil because I didn't feel it helped anymore. I tapered it by myself, very slowly, lowering doses every few weeks, over the period of about 10 months to 1 year. I took my last dose of paxil in august this year.

 

A month before I stopped paxil, I started feeling my OCD and anxiety symptoms becoming worse. I never thought it might be related to the drug and withdrawal. I started obsessing more, sleeping less, etc. Eventually I read up on withdrawal symptoms and that scared me a lot. I was (and still am) afraid that I somehow damaged my brain and there's no going back, that my neurotransmitter receptors are blocked and I'll be stuck in this feeling forever. I?m well aware this is catastrophizing and is a part of my health anxiety and a symptom of OCD.

 

Now to my benzo use:

 

I got prescribed diazepam during the time I was taking paxil, about 5 years ago, when I had some rough anxiety attacks. I used it very sporadically, as I didn't want to get hooked. I have a record of benzo prescriptions when I picked them up from my pharmacy, here it is:

 

15.11.2016 diazepam (all of these are 30 tabs per pack, 2 mg)

16.2.2018 diazepam

26.10.2018 diazepam

4.3.2021 diazepam

2.7.2021 diazepam

8.9.2021 lorazepam

25.11.2021 lorazepam

 

As you can see, very sporadic use of diazepam over 5 years. I used it usually 1-3 times a week, 1 mg dose, rarely 2 mg. I'd often go weeks without it.

 

In july is when I started becoming more anxious and obsessive, and I started suffering from insomnia (probably paxil withdrawal kicked in). I started using diazepam a bit more regularly, but not every day. I went to my psych and he prescribed me lorazepam. I picked it up in september and initially I took it sporadically, 0.5 mg before sleep. But my usage became more regular and I started taking 1 mg before sleep.

 

From september to november I went through one packet of lorazepam - let's say 30 days with 0.5 dose, and 15 days with 1mg dose. I didn't take it every day, sometimes I'd muscle through insomnia. But as you can see, I became more regular.

 

This is when I decided it's time to stop. I heard about Ashton manual so I've read up on that and decided to cross over to diazepam. This is something I'm not so sure about and that's why I joined this forum, to get more insight. I also contacted my psych, told him that I want to stop and he told me that I can stop however I wanted - more rapidly or more slowly, however I felt. So this is what I've been doing over the few days:

 

From 26.11. I took 0.75 mg lorazepam for 3 days, then crossed over 0.25 dose to 2mg diazepam. Now I'm taking 0.5mg lorazepam and 2 mg diazepam, as I said in my intro. This is the schedule I have in mind:

 

1. 0.5 mg lorazepam + 2 mg diazepam until the end of this week.

2. From the next monday crossing everything to diazepam, 6 mg in total.

3. Every week taking 1 mg off.

 

How do I feel now?

 

Very distressed. Constant anxiety. Trouble sleeping, even though when I took 0.5 lorazepam + 2 diazepam the first night 2 days ago, I felt very relaxed and slept well. Last night I had trouble falling asleep, my heart was pounding as I was feeling very anxious. I managed to get a few hours of sleep though.

 

I must stress something: I believe A LOT of my symptoms are due to me constantly checking on myself, catastrophizing and not knowing if I'm doing the right thing by tapering this way. As much as it's valuable to learn about the problems with this drug, and how to stop it, it also added up a lot of stress because now I'm constantly thinking:

What if I get stuck in this anxiety feeling forever?

What if I'm actually alergic to diazepam in higher doses and experience adverse effects?

What if I'm updosing and just prolonging my time spent on this drug?

What if I messed up my brain for good and never sleep/feel normal again?

What if I lose control now and experience the worst panic attack ever?

Etc, etc.

 

I understand this is my hypochondria. And I need to stop all of that - destructive thinking, ruminations, drugs, everything.

 

My goal is to get off everything, muscle through whatever withdrawal I experience (be it from paxil or benzos) and build mental health with therapy and changing my behavior and relationship with anxiety and OCD.

 

So yeah, let's do this. What do you think of my taper schedule? Should I go faster/slower? Any thoughts are appreciated!

 

 

 

Let me add more symptoms: muscle twitching, feeling weak, nausea, fast heartbeat, rapid thoughts. So yeah, not fun!

 

Also worth noting: I feel worse now when I became regular with my dose, than when I was irregular a few months ago (when I was just in paxil withdrawal). Now I feel like the line between benzo usage and withdrawal, paxil withdrawal and regular anxiety became blurred.

Thanks for your detailed explanation but I'm not surprised to hear you're feeling worse since you started taking more benzodiazepines, once our bodies become dependent on the drug we often have to increase the dose to achieve the same effect.  I feel what you're dealing with is benzo withdrawal symptoms, the catastrophizing and health anxiety are classic symptoms, of course you could still be feeling the effects of the Paxil withdrawal but you took the Lorazepam long enough to become dependent.

 

I'm thrilled to hear you have a supportive doctor, going slow is just the right speed to get this done, slow and steady.

 

My thoughts on your taper plans, I'm wondering if 6 mgs is enough to cross to but I'm especially concerned about the speed of your elimination of the Lorazepam.  It takes awhile for Diazepam to build up in your body so if you take away the Lorazepam too quickly, you'll be left without coverage.

 

I don't have taper experience so I feel it would be wise for you to post in one of our support group threads to get some opinions from our other members who have experience with Diazepam.  Valium Support Group

 

 

 

Thanks for your input, I'll check out that thread.

I might do it like this: hold 0.5 + 2mg until next week.

Do 0.25 + 4mg for a few days and then cross the last 0.25 to 6mg in total. Then go from there cutting weekly.

 

All I'm interested in is getting this thing out of my body as fast as it's reasonably possible. Just like your signature, I feel it impedes my recovery.

 

This taper would be in line with Ashton manual. Technically I should cross to 7.5 mg because it's the exact equivalent. But even this what I'm holding now feels like a slight updose!

I'm glad to know you're paying attention to your symptoms, this is absolutely the best method for ridding yourself of these drugs.