Author Topic: Valium/Diazepam Support Group  (Read 691667 times)

[Buddie]

Valium/Diazepam Support Group
« on: December 09, 2013, 07:12:34 am »
I am creating a new thread in the Support Groups section, because our other thread [...] in Buddie Blogs, and canít be moved. That section isnít viewable to non-members anyway, and I felt it was important that non-members also had some information available to them. You can still view our other thread hereÖÖ http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=50573.0.

So itís really good that those who are [...] looking for information, but donít want to join yet, can now check out what weíre all saying and hopefully either get some good information, or make the decision to become a member of BB so they can join in the conversation or ask questions. I [...] our regular posters in the Buddie Blog section will visit here and offer their support and advice to other members who are in [...] of help.

Ií[...] start the conversation by giving you an update of where Iím at.

Things are currently going great. Iím sleeping really well every night (touch wood) and Iím hardly even thinking about my taper. Next weekend I should be at 0.7mg. Itís hard to believe that about 18 months ago I was at my wits end, contemplating how I could continue living my life when I had no idea what my problem was or how I would ever get off [...]. It was about that time that my father passed away, at the age of 88. Before he died he knew how sick I was, and about 2 months after he died, suddenly Benzo Buddies popped up on my google search, and I havenít look back. Thanks Dad for pointing me in the right direction.

It hasnít always been easy, and at times itís been downright frustrating and difficult, but I could never have gotten where I am now without the help of Benzo Buddies, and Fliprain in particular, who was so patient in teaching me how to do a daily taper. Taking her inspiration and help, Iíve tried to ďpay it forwardĒ by putting together an example of how do a [...] liquid taper, which Iíve posted in the link in my signature below.

Iím really taking this final leg of my taper very seriously. Iím done with experimenting and making silly mistakes, and now itís time for me to [...] knuckle down and commit to being patient, not taking any silly risks and [...] getting it done.

Iím not putting any timetable on when Ií[...] be finished. I [...] do the slow fade-out/flumes inhaling that [...] has done. Then again, if things continue as they are at the moment, I might [...] step off with my last cut. Who knows? My 55th birthday will be in June next year, so my one wish [...] that I will be totally benzo free for my birthday.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 09:57:43 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium/Diazepam Support Group
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 08:06:13 am »
Hi [...]
Thanks for starting this new thread. I really got a lot from BB when I was new to this benzo business. Currently, I'm around  the end of my taper and enjoy paying it forward as well. Not thinking much about your taper [...] a great sign. I started my original taper from 2-4mg of Ativan per day, then crossed over to [...] a [...] Ashton. I tapered really fast at first, going from a max of 4mg Ativan per day down to .7mg per day in around 1 month. My taper  ended 22 months later with [...]  going slower and slower,  but basically I felt pretty well most of the time after slowing down.
[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium/Diazepam Support Group
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 08:36:24 am »
I also use [...]'s liquid micro-tapering method. It [...] easy and functional and I'm thankful I don't have to titrate - I [...] merely buy the liquid [...] and draw up the 1ml/1mg per day. This [...] one plus for [...] tapering: the variety of forms and dosages it comes in. The other plus [...] its long half life though you'[...] see I still dose 3 times daily but it isn't necessary to do so for most people.
I'[...] post the numbers I generated on excel for cutting at different mls/mgs using DP's 1:100ml method. I have them printed out and cross them off nightly which means I can avoid maths as well as keeping track of where I'm up to. They aren't in their proper format but it shouldn't be overly difficult for anyone to place them in boxes/table format if you wish to.

How goes my taper: well I'm usually fine and functional provided I don't get impatient and I take it slow. I had one very big bump in the road when I got concussed but other then that I'm living my life. At a high-ish dose (7.5 mgs as I write this) it does continue to impact on my life. I feel [...] throughout the day but at least withdrawal symptoms are not overly difficult at this stage - again provided I take it slow.

Hopefully the lower doses don't mean too much difficulty. We shall see.

I do believe though that people can in general keep their [...] rate at roughly their cut rate so that the impact of the withdrawal [...] less noticeable. This takes patience and it takes time. It takes knowing when you [...] to hold, slow down or even up-dose. Once you are in withdrawal and you continue to cut you will stay in withdrawal. With patience and vigilance you can once stable stay moderately stable. Unfortunately even this isn't possible for many people. And of course there are always surprises. Hubris with benzos [...] pretty quickly swatted down. I have no doubt I will have difficult points ahead but through the example of others before me I have an approach that has thus far stabilised me and allow me to continue a taper albeit a slow one. The approach [...] sometimes referred to as a 'symptoms based taper'. One of the buddies who most successfully utilised this approach thus far [...] [...]. [...] [...] also proving a good example of how you can withdraw without suffering. This approach basically calls for you to heal with your cut rate by trying to stay virtually non-symptomatic and if/when symptoms appear utilising a slow down, a hold, or an up-dose.

I dose 3 times daily though I functioned fine initially on one dose per day. After my concussion however I got headaches in-between doses. It [...] a very even way of doing it if you can stand it. I use a combination of tablets and liquid. Having liquid [...] does obviously make the spreading over 3 doses easier. Even as I get to very low doses I can [...] drink the liquid dose throughout the day.

I'[...] add a few other thoughts on withdrawing off benzos that I have come to believe at this stage.
I believe wholeheartedly in the benefit of exercise during withdrawal. If I don't keep up regular yoga practice I suffer and it doesn't matter how slow I go.
Some vitamins and supplements can be useful but proceed with caution Reactions do vary amongst people, and from time to time, and for some it [...] best to stay away. Anything that revs you up or overly affects GABA and glutamate [...] in my view often a little more trouble then they are worth (I'm mostly thinking here of Valarian and Taurine though many people have found these very useful others, like me, have found them causing their own [...] of withdrawal problems). For me I stick with things I believe manage cortisol and help brain function, neuro-plasticity and reduction of neuro-toxicity. At this stage that only includes: Vitamin C; Seriphos; Fish oil (with high DHA); Curcumin (taken with [...] amounts of peperine); Some Creatine as needed. L-Theanine has shown promise though some problems. Gingko Biloba [...] something I [...] choose to [...] in the future.
Hormones matter. Hormones make a big difference to withdrawal. For women their oestrogen levels seem to make the biggest difference. Low points in oestrogen are pre-menstruation, menstruation, pre-menopausal, menopausal and post-menopausal. HRT and even the combination pill have helped many people.
Seek help & know much. If in benzo withdrawal you might be the only one you know who [...] going through this. You might know a hell of a lot more about it then 90% of Drs. Both of these things are [...]. They can even be helpful. Why? Well you find new avenues of support - like BB. And you learn a lot about your condition and the brain in general. For some people having too much information leads to a feeling that their withdrawal [...] taking over their lives. For me it has been an essential part of owning my withdrawal and coming to terms with it. And, perhaps more importantly, it has led to find ways through it as painlessly as possible.

(sorry about the essay!)
Good luck & Peace
[...]
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 10:32:46 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium/Diazepam Support Group
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 08:48:39 am »
So like I said these aren't formatted but the idea of maths really scared me when I first went into this so I'[...] post them in the [...] they [...] help. Lets face it there [...] a lot to be scared about when you first find out you are dependent on benzos and [...] how nasty their withdrawals are.

A reduction of 0.07mgs per night (7mls in 1:100 solution)
-7   -14   -21   -28   -35   -42   -49   -56   -63   -70   -77
-84   -91   -98                        

A reduction of 0.06mgs per night (6mls in 1:100 solution)
-6   -12   -18   -24   -30   -36   -42   -48   -54   -60   -66
-72   -78   -84   -90   -96   -102   
            
A reduction of 0.05mgs per night (5mls in 1:100 solution)
-5   -10   -15   -20   -25   -30   -35   -40   -45   -50
-55   -60   -65   -70   -75   -80   -85   -90   -95   -100

A reduction of 0.04mgs per night (4mls in 1:100 solution)
-4   -8   -12   -16   -20   -24   -28   -32   -36   -40   -44
-48   -52   -56   -60   -64   -68   -72   -76   -80   -84   -88
-92   -96   -100                       
       
A reduction of 0.035mgs per night (3.5mls in 1:100 solution)                     
-3.5   -7   -10.5   -14   -17.5   -21   -24.5   -28   -31.5   -35   -38.5
-42   -45.5   -49   -52.5   -56   -59.5   -63   -66.5   -70   -73.5   -77
-80.5   -84   -87.5   -91   -94.5   -98   -100           

A reduction of 0.03mgs per night (3mls in 1:100 solution)
-3   -6   -9   -12   -15   -18   -21   -24   -27   -30   -33
-36   -39   -42   -45   -48   -51   -54   -57   -60   -63   -66
-69   -72   -75   -78   -81   -84   -87   -90   -93   -96   -99

A reduction of 0.02mgs per night (2mls in 1:100 solution)
-2   -4   -6   -8   -10   -12   -14   -16   -18   -20   -22
-24   -26   -28   -30   -32   -34   -36   -38   -40   `   -44
-46   -48   -50   -52   -54   -56   -58   -60   -62   -64   -66
-68   -70   -72   -74   -76   -78   -80   -82   -84   -86   -88
-90   -92   -94   -96   -98   -100               

A reduction of 0.015mgs per night (1.5mls in 1:100 solution)
-1.5   -3   -4.5   -6   -7.5   -9   -10.5   -12   -13.5   -15   -16.5
-18   -19.5   -21   -22.5   -24   -25.5   -27   -28.5   -30   -31.5   -33
-34.5   -36   -37.5   -39   -40.5   -42   -43.5   -45   -46.5   -48   -49.5
-51   -52.5   -54   -55.5   -57   -58.5   -60   -61.5   -63   -64.5   -66
-67.5   -69   -70.5   -72   -73.5   -75   -76.5   -78   -79.5   -81   -82.5
-84   -85.5   -87   -88.5   -90   -91.5   -93   -94.5   -96   -97.5   -99

A reduction of 0.01mgs per night (1mls in 1:100 solution)
-1   -2   -3   -4   -5   -6   -7   -8   -9   -10   -11
-12   -13   -14   -15   -16   -17   -18   -19   -20   -21   -22
-23   -24   -25   -26   -27   -28   -29   -30   -31   -32   -33
-34   -35   -36   -37   -38   -39   -40   -41   -42   -43   -44
-45   -46   -47   -48   -49   -50   -51   -52   -53   -54   -55
-56   -57   -58   -59   -60   -61   -62   -63   -64   -65   -66
-66   -67   -68   -69   -70   -71   -72   -73   -74   -75   -76
-77   -78   -79   -80   -81   -82   -83   -84   -85   -86   -87
-88   -89   -90   -91   -92   -93   -94   -95   -96   -97   -98
-99   -100                           
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium/Diazepam Support Group
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 03:57:42 pm »
Hello everyone

I started out following the Ashton Manual by switching over from clonazepam to [...] although at a more rapid rate than what [...] shown in the transfer table.

I used clonazepam for only 6 weeks and thought that I would be able to transfer and taper faster than what [...] advised in her manual which does seem to be established for people who have used benzos long term.

I was cutting .625mgs every three to four days until I cut from 2.5mg to 1.875mg.  I then got hit for the first time with what [...] referred to as the [...] lag time.  I was cutting so rapidly that it took that long for the cuts to catch up to me.  At that point I had to up-dose from 1.875mg to 2mg and put in a two week hold to stabilize.

At this point it was [...] who came to my rescue and very patiently explained the daily cut method using a Gemini Pro Scale (which can be purchased on Amazon).  By cutting the smallest possible amount of .001 grams on the scale daily, I was able to continue cutting but at a much slower rate so that the side effects of cutting were much more manageable. 

I continued with this method until I reached .99mg and even that cut rate became too much for me on a daily basis.  I took it upon myself to read through [...]'s posts to see if he detailed his reduction method of dissolving tablets into liquid and reducing daily with an oral syringe.  I did find where he described in detail his methodology and with the help of a couple of PMs sent to him, [...] myself up to begin reducing daily this way.  I began by reducing .01mg daily, and am now as of December 2013 reducing at .009mg daily.  This method [...] much easier for me using excel tables to help me decide how much [...] / suspension liquid (I am using ora-plus/ora-sweet) to end up with the desired taper rate.  I got the link for these tables from Cirerecrem and here it [...] http://www.benzosupport.org/the_spreadsheet.htm with these tables you can design your own taper rate around whatever rate you [...] to reduce.

I am very grateful for all the help and support I have received since joining BB.  If you are not yet a member and are reading this, I urge you to join and reach out for help and guidance.  Many of us would have been lost without this site.

 :smitten:
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium/Diazepam Support Group
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 04:05:50 pm »
I would be remiss If I did not acknowledge the help, support and friendship I have received from [...] since I joined BB.  From the beginning of my membership, she has been a solid [...] of wisdom and guidance and a valuable source of information on HRT and sleep aids among many other things.

Other BB members who I am indebted to for their help or for their support are:
[...]
[...]
[...]
Cirerecerm
[...]

If you are [...] coming to this thread you are in the right place!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium/Diazepam Support Group
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 04:22:12 pm »
I too am tapering [...] and although I have been at it for some time, I am still learning.

I started out at 15 mg of [...] in October of 2012  having done a slow crossover from Ativan. I did an "Ashton" taper and dosed 3 x a day, then 2 x a day, then once a day until I reached 4 mg . . . and then I got into real trouble at 2 mg and realized I had to do something else. That something else has meant that I needed to learn about daily reductions. My thanks for Fliprain and [...] for explaining that to me.

Later on ([...] recently) I learned that I needed to split my dose and go back to twice daily dosing. My thanks to [...], [...], [...] and [...] for helping me with that. They rescued me from a really bad [...].

The Diazepam Group [...] all about helping each other . . . and anyone who [...] new and asks for advice. There are veterans here and all of us have made mistakes. We learn from each other.

I am so grateful for all the help I have received and am ready to help anyone else who needs it.

Thanks, DP for starting this group.

[...]

« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 06:03:34 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium/Diazepam Support Group
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 04:45:25 pm »

Hi [...]  :smitten:

Nice to start a new thread...

I am approaching 2.9 mg V equivalent... super slow but getting there and that [...] all that matters, right?

[...], again, sorry if I offended you yesterday, it was not intentional, I [...] want you to do well off this junk... I know a few that said we don't heal until off and trust me, I hate hearing that also but at least you are essentially done with your taper now... hopefully time will take care of the rest.

I often feel a bit manic after cutting, for about a week I can be ultra hyper mentally... and I can write a lot about this [...] with various thoughts and theories... I am still none the wiser... I only know that I am doing my best to taper off this junk without losing the plot as I get lower... typing [...] a way of coping and I get way too analytical... and it does not always go down too well... it [...] merely the result of a speeding brain... it slows down again when I stabilize...

Trying to find answers in this [...] pretty much impossible anyway as we are all so different... some say we heal as we taper, others say the [...] does not even start until we are off and I have no idea what to think of withdrawal these days... but I certainly [...] this taper [...] [...] as otherwise I am putting a crazy amount of time into this...

It [...] so nice when I am stable and revert to watching movies and enjoying listening to music... and not thinking so much about this like you [...]... when we are "in the sweet spot", life sure feels so much better... until then, maybe I should pen a novel or something?  :laugh:

[...] everyone [...] having a good day today.

[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium/Diazepam Support Group
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 05:37:24 pm »
Hi [...]

I was on [...] once and [...] yet again come full circle.  Next time I will taper it much slower :thumbsup:
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Valium/Diazepam Support Group
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 09:10:59 pm »
Hi All,
Thank you everyone for all of your support and experience.

My [...] was in acute withdrawal after stopping [...] PRN.
She stopped for a month and her breathing wasn't working and she would de-saturate.
In the hospital, the only thing that brought her oxygen back up, was [...].
However, she couldn't wait the 6 hrs for the next dose and the dr allowed a direct switch to [...].
I tried the Ashton taper from 6mg down to 0 and it [...] didn't work.
Had to reinstate her at 2.5mg per day.

Saw [...]'s slow taper and started doing a cut and hold method, until realizing that this doesn't work well.
Finally, I decided to switch my [...] to a daily slow tape and this has worked great.

Originally, I didn't know how I could cut daily for accuracy using a 1mL syringe, but it's close enuf.
If I had it to again (no never again), I would definitely do the daily micro-taper.
If my [...] keeps doing well, she will be off the benzo's by her birthday in Feb.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 12:03:26 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.