Waves, They Come and Go

Hello Friends,

 

Been taking .25mg K for several months now, but only on an as needed basis.  Caught myself taking a second .25mg occasionally at night for sleep and to calm down.  Father of 3 kids, a teen, one new and one 2 which is a good case of anxiety for anyone even if you don’t have anxiety.  But, that aside.  I have suffered from general anxiety that comes and goes over the last ten years.  Tried Lorazepam and Escitalopram, at different times over the past 10 years and they really just numbed me and made me feel like a zombie who didn’t enjoy doing anything and I still had some waves of anxiety. Medication eventually turns into a wet bandaid, it eventually falls off.

 

It wasn’t until recently that i started an anti anxiety journal and doing breathing exercises and practicing centering my thoughts and reframing them in a more positive direction that i have been able to kind of reign in this anxiety, instead of allowing my brain to go down the catastrophic wormhole it is so prone to and sending me into a full meltdown.  I still have waves and am working on tapering off of K all together.  I feel fortunate that I wasn’t on it for too long before i realized that it was starting to be less effective and that my brain was pushing on me for more. Anyone who has been on it or anything like it for any extended amount of time, i do sympathize and support and credit your incredible journey to right the ship (mental health) as it were.

 

But Cognitive Behavioral Therapy has taken me so much further than just popping a pill has done, correcting my breathing and fixing my thoughts in the moment and cutting caffeine and sugar down to almost nothing (this sucks, as a sleepy dad), writing down my episodes and keeping a journal of my bad days and reframing these intrusive thoughts at night before bed actually seems to be helping me get some sleep, along with prayer and the Tapping method.

 

I am taking a .25mg today and my scale gets here today, i will start my taper tomorrow and I can’t wait to eventually have control over the medication and also the anxiety that caused this mess. 

 

I know it isn’t common, but is there anyone else that has had experience with getting through this after being on a smaller dose like(.25mg K, or 2.5mg Val) for a shorter period of time? Tips or Tricks for the eventual bad days?

 

Attitude of Gratitude is my mantra right now.  Thank you for taking the time to read and i wish you all the best on your journey through all things.

We have many members who have only taken the drug for a short time, I can think of a couple at the moment, unfortunately we don't have a dedicated board for this so it's hit and miss trying to connect with them.  We do have a thread in support groups that may be helpful. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=130001.0

 

I'm so happy to hear you've found other ways to deal with your anxiety, we all need a plan that doesn't include this nasty medication.  Your record keeping is a great idea, it can reveal so much that we wouldn't normally notice, this allows you to avoid situations and behaviors that can trigger you, fantastic work!

 

I thought I saw on another thread you don't take the Klonopin daily, can you confirm this?

Yes, currently I am only taking it when i feel like i need it. Probably every 2-3 days, with a few consecutive days, the only thing that I had noticed was that recently I was starting to feel like i needed another dose in the evening before bed. Possibly interdose? But, I have taken it a few times like that (so, .5mg K in one day a few days in the last 2 months) but I feel like i caught on and am trying to prevent further need to increase and eventually get away from it altogether. 

 

Also, Thank you for moving my post to the right place! Right, I don’t expect to find many others in my position *which I am honestly grateful for*.

Most of our Klonopin users report that by about day 3 the symptoms will show up and yours are coming right on time.  Our brains crave consistency and dosing as you can actually is sending you into withdrawals so I would suggest taking your dose every day, of course you'll need to figure out what that dose is so you don't end up taking more than you are now.  Many members will dose a few times a day depending on the half life of the benzo, I'd try taking it each day then if you begin to feel interdose you can take it twice to alleviate it.

Ok, yeah makes total sense. I have noticed that, within 3 days I’m getting clammy hands and a little woozy but nothing to intense. I have been taking just .25mg for the past 2 weeks, so maybe that is my starting point. From there, I could work my way down slowly and still maintain progress and interest in my healthy habits and hobbies. 

 

I’ve also read a lot that Ashwagandha and L-Theanine can be useful for these symptoms of mild anxiety and restlessness.  Is it wise to take those while tapering? I want to manage with healthy supplements if possible to keep from crashing w/d and jumping back on.

So you've pretty much been taking .25 every day, if so then I agree it looks like your starting point. With a dose that small you may need to look at titration, either liquid or dry using a jewelers scale  to weigh your doses or you can look into a compounding pharmacy.

 

I'd be careful with supplements, many members say they're helpful but just as many react badly to them, our central nervous system is highly sensitized during this process so whatever you do, only add one at a time and start low.  You want to be able to know what may be causing what.  Searching or posting on the Alternative Therapies & Supplements board will yield a great deal of discussion on both of these supplements.

Absolutely i will continue at .25 for the next 7 days, and then drop about 10%, I’ve got my scale and a pretty slow and steady taper schedule mapped out in excel already and will adjust according to my symptoms and their intensity. Just wanting to be 100% sure that I’m set for the days to come even starting at a rather small dose, I’m a bit obsessive and controlling which is also sometimes the reason for my anxiety (go figure)  .  I want to cover all my troubled bases and be sure I’m increasing my chance for success and a positive outcome.

 

I believe you there, As far as supplements go, I’ll just forego any of them for now, I can handle a great deal of pain and stress and discomfort without complaint for the greater good. Continuing to do research on more positive remedies with healthier benefits than the chemical i currently ingest to feel at ease.

 

Thanks so much for your attention and information and guidance.

Update:

 

Certainly feeling the interdose or some form of withdrawal or anxiety from taking the .25mg dose once a day. It is setting in after i wake up at around 8-9am and then typically I’ll dose and will level off until about 6-7pm and have a strong wave of what feels like symptoms of anxiety and sweaty feelings.  This was most of the past week.

 

Started yesterday with splitting the .25 dose in half and taking the first at 8:30am and the other at 8pm and it seems to be better. Still got hit with the wave at around 6pm but i rode it out until 8pm and took my other half and was able to calm down with some breathing and being present with the symptoms and not let them get me to wound up. Although its only been a day, but i woke up feeling more rested and less anxious after my morning shower. Dry cutting these pills down to such a small amount is quite a task. Definitely tedious! Liquid titration seems equally daunting, I’m going to try to find a psych that is willing to work with me to get me to smaller dosage size pills for a slow taper and for my mental health benefit. I feel pretty positive about it all.

 

Also, decaf coffee, i have never tried it. But i woke up craving coffee so much today, been off all caffeine for a month now after realizing what a trigger it was. But i got decaf and it worked to cure my itch. Still with about 5-8mg caffeine it isn’t a chaotic panic inducing flood now.

 

Could be on the right track now! Waves will pass, time will tell, and my patience will persevere.

 

Anyway, i hope that anyone going through something like this gets something from it!

 

I'm glad you're dosing twice a day, its good you've recognized where you have some control of this process.

 

It looks like you're working on your tools to get through this, they'll come in handy when you're drug free too, many of wish we would have reached into our toolbox instead of taking this pill.

 

Do you need any pointers for working your scale, one of members is really helpful and I could let him know.

Yes absolutely, I wish I had known that I had more power over my anxiety and panic before getting on this stuff. I would love some pointers. I understand the basics of it and calibrating and all that. But would still love to hear some more experienced pointers or fine tuned methods!

 

Also, realizing that the way I was feeling the last two weeks was my blood serum level fluctuating and bouncing around from having taken .5 a few times the week before. Definitely a painful trial to experience.

There are some good tips on the stickied threads on this board you might want to check out.  Anxiety     

 

You're the subject in the grand experiment and its painful but I'm glad to see you're connecting some of the dots, knowledge is power.

 

I'll send a message to a member who can give you some pointers about your scales. 

I would be happy to help you with the scale and the math.  Just let me know how I can help.

 

Amazing, so I am currently holding at .25mg K and splitting it up at 8 am and 8pm. Which is already tedious, but I’m wanting to drop slightly at the end of this coming week and i have the GEM20 scale, just running into problems when trying to get as close to exact as I can when i split my .25mg. I tried some calibrating and placing the 10mg weight on/zero’ing out/then placing my cut on to try to get a steadier weight but there is still a good bit of difference or fluctuation in the values it reads.

 

Also, How bad was .125?

First, let me give you some advice and peace about scales.

 

Only a specialized laboratory grade scale can stop these fluxuations - they cost hundreds of thousand of dollars.

That said, many, many BB have used these affordable scales and successfully tapered to zero.

You need to remember, the half-life of benzo in you blood is long so getting more on one dose and less on another tends to average out. 

IMHO - It is the anxiety about being exact which causes our benzo symptoms to get worse.  So try to be at peace about your scale.

 

Second, scales are wonderful if you want to travel and need to pre-measure you doses (and store the dose in empty gel capsules).

Otherwise, I would try a liquid method.  Here is the simplist method I have seen for liquids without alcohol. 

It might work better if you dissolve the pill in a few drops of vodka first but that is your call.

 

 

 

 

Yep, funny it’s exactly how I feel when weighing it out, overthinking the process of the scale and worrying about a thousandth of a decimal.  I’m glad you could put me at ease with that one.  I’m at peace with it and ready to be my old self again. Even after working down from .5 to .25 I already feel like some of my “me” is coming back slowly.

 

Thanks for the advice!

Remember also.  Reductions made weeks ago can accumulate and appear to hit you all at once.  It is either that or anxiety flare up due to life issue.

Either way, Journal your dose and symptoms each day so you can learn your body.