Things I wish I had known and advice that I hadn't followed

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I think you have a lot of good points but I think you’ve misunderstood what Baylissa had said in a few ways. Baylissa has never said isolation was good for you or not harmful. I definitely believe agoraphobia doesn’t just “magically” go away. I think after some of the more intense symptoms are gone and you’re there just waiting for you to want to go out in the world that’s not going to happen. You need to work on it and slowly get back in the world. The other thing is Baylissa saying mental symptoms shouldn’t be treated differently. This is true in that there are people like her and many others who took these meds for physical issues that were left with crippling mental symptoms. They didn’t just suddenly have bi-polar, or OCD, or Schizophrenia. Everyone knows your underlying mental health problems don’t just go away and you’ll need to address them. Baylissa has said that as well. Her dystonia didn’t just go away after she stopped since she’s had it prior.

 

I do agree with you about the fear mongering on the groups though. It doesn’t do anyone any good to keep checking them since they don’t make you feel better.  I think they just breed and fuel anxiety. They can be helpful in the beginning and in some cases where someone might not have any family of friends to support them but for the majority they they aren’t helpful to get so absorbed in

 

The issue is when you’re left with problems you never had that aren’t symptoms of anxiety. I took Clonazepam exclusively as a sleep aid. I didn’t even know what benzo was I just called it a tranquilizer to go to sleep. I have underlying OCD that I’ve had all my life and it’s manifested itself in many ways throughout my life, but it’s never been crippling and I don’t expect it to magically leave. I’ve  also had mild and situational anxiety and depression before taking a benzo. Now I’m left with tinnitus, POTS, extreme food sensitivities, terrible fatigue, and my circadian rhythm cycles around the clock. These things aren’t from anxiety. Of course I have anxiety symptoms now too like DPDR, OCD thoughts, social anxiety, depression, anhedonia, etc. I didn’t have these things before other than what I listed above. I do believe the extreme stress from this made everything worse. I’m not against treatment for these things.

 

I’m glad you’re doing better but there’s all levels of suffering going on in this so there’s really no size fits all. I’ll continue to keep investigating  with doctors for the strange things happening to me with the hope that they might get better in the future.

I think you have a lot of good points but I think you’ve misunderstood what Baylissa had said in a few ways. Baylissa has never said isolation was good for you or not harmful. I definitely believe agoraphobia doesn’t just “magically” go away. I think after some of the more intense symptoms are gone and you’re there just waiting for you to want to go out in the world that’s not going to happen. You need to work on it and slowly get back in the world. The other thing is Baylissa saying mental symptoms shouldn’t be treated differently. This is true in that there are people like her and many others who took these meds for physical issues that were left with crippling mental symptoms. They didn’t just suddenly have bi-polar, or OCD, or Schizophrenia. Everyone knows your underlying mental health problems don’t just go away and you’ll need to address them. Baylissa has said that as well. Her dystonia didn’t just go away after she stopped since she’s had it prior.

 

I do agree with you about the fear mongering on the groups though. It doesn’t do anyone any good to keep checking them since they don’t make you feel better.  I think they just breed and fuel anxiety. They can be helpful in the beginning and in some cases where someone might not have any family of friends to support them but for the majority they they aren’t helpful to get so absorbed in

 

The issue is when you’re left with problems you never had that aren’t symptoms of anxiety. I took Clonazepam exclusively as a sleep aid. I didn’t even know what benzo was I just called it a tranquilizer to go to sleep. I have underlying OCD that I’ve had all my life and it’s manifested itself in many ways throughout my life, but it’s never been crippling and I don’t expect it to magically leave. I’ve  also had mild and situational anxiety and depression before taking a benzo. Now I’m left with tinnitus, POTS, extreme food sensitivities, terrible fatigue, and my circadian rhythm cycles around the clock. These things aren’t from anxiety. Of course I have anxiety symptoms now too like DPDR, OCD thoughts, social anxiety, depression, anhedonia, etc. I didn’t have these things before other than what I listed above. I do believe the extreme stress from this made everything worse. I’m not against treatment for these things.

 

I’m glad you’re doing better but there’s all levels of suffering going on in this so there’s really no size fits all. I’ll continue to keep investigating  with doctors for the strange things happening to me with the hope that they might get better in the future.

 

I completely agree with you, ive used Baylissa for 2 years now as a therapist to guide me thru my wd. What alot of people do not realize or understand is the danger she would be risking to even slightly agree with someone in wd to take another medication. The odds of them being able to tolerate another medication is probably less than 50% chance of going well and if it backfired and that person took their life or ended up in the hospital as a reprocussion for trying a medication, Baylisaa or Dr Jenn could 1. Be in alot if trouble (they are NOT Drs and its not ethical or legal for them to recommend or monitor client medications,  hence why she does not offer tapering advice) 2. Couldn't live with theirself. These 2 women are not in a position to even speak about other medications other than to normalize the sxs you are experiencing while taking them. The other issue about her advice on isolation is that some people like myself who suffer from major physical sxs keep trying to push myself to get out and do things but it only makes me feel worse, so she tells me my cns isn't ready I must be patient and that the isolation isn't going to harm me. A ton of people have tried ERT and EMDR, etc all to find it was a waste of money because this is chemical not organic mental sxs. So I think by now she has come to realize that seeing people waste so much money is frustrating and a waste of time. There is no way any therapy could help my mental sxs right now.  But for you it worked (I've really not seen this much when its truly wd) and thats great but you have to remeber Baylissa and Dr. Jenn both suffered awful mental and physical sxs and they both rode it out and it went away. So the most safe recommendations for them and their clients is for them to normalize your situation and be your support and cheerleader any thing other than that would be considered out of their lane. They do tell us this, ive heard them say it several times. We have to make our own choices and we can't rely on someone else to make them for us, unfortunately, it would be amazing if a program existed to get everything we need to survive wd, however we don't and thats is why this is such a difficult journey. Your only a year out so I wouldn't diagnosed myself with a mental illness. If you are feeling better taking another medication and doing treatment then thats OK, others have done so as well and made that choice to get through their journey, nothing wrong with that.

I think you have a lot of good points but I think you’ve misunderstood what Baylissa had said in a few ways. Baylissa has never said isolation was good for you or not harmful. I definitely believe agoraphobia doesn’t just “magically” go away. I think after some of the more intense symptoms are gone and you’re there just waiting for you to want to go out in the world that’s not going to happen. You need to work on it and slowly get back in the world. The other thing is Baylissa saying mental symptoms shouldn’t be treated differently. This is true in that there are people like her and many others who took these meds for physical issues that were left with crippling mental symptoms. They didn’t just suddenly have bi-polar, or OCD, or Schizophrenia. Everyone knows your underlying mental health problems don’t just go away and you’ll need to address them. Baylissa has said that as well. Her dystonia didn’t just go away after she stopped since she’s had it prior.

 

I do agree with you about the fear mongering on the groups though. It doesn’t do anyone any good to keep checking them since they don’t make you feel better.  I think they just breed and fuel anxiety. They can be helpful in the beginning and in some cases where someone might not have any family of friends to support them but for the majority they they aren’t helpful to get so absorbed in

 

The issue is when you’re left with problems you never had that aren’t symptoms of anxiety. I took Clonazepam exclusively as a sleep aid. I didn’t even know what benzo was I just called it a tranquilizer to go to sleep. I have underlying OCD that I’ve had all my life and it’s manifested itself in many ways throughout my life, but it’s never been crippling and I don’t expect it to magically leave. I’ve  also had mild and situational anxiety and depression before taking a benzo. Now I’m left with tinnitus, POTS, extreme food sensitivities, terrible fatigue, and my circadian rhythm cycles around the clock. These things aren’t from anxiety. Of course I have anxiety symptoms now too like DPDR, OCD thoughts, social anxiety, depression, anhedonia, etc. I didn’t have these things before other than what I listed above. I do believe the extreme stress from this made everything worse. I’m not against treatment for these things.

 

I’m glad you’re doing better but there’s all levels of suffering going on in this so there’s really no size fits all. I’ll continue to keep investigating  with doctors for the strange things happening to me with the hope that they might get better in the future.

 

I completely agree with you, ive used Baylissa for 2 years now as a therapist to guide me thru my wd. What alot of people do not realize or understand is the danger she would be risking to even slightly agree with someone in wd to take another medication. The odds of them being able to tolerate another medication is probably less than 50% chance of going well and if it backfired and that person took their life or ended up in the hospital as a reprocussion for trying a medication, Baylisaa or Dr Jenn could 1. Be in alot if trouble (they are NOT Drs and its not ethical or legal for them to recommend or monitor client medications,  hence why she does not offer tapering advice) 2. Couldn't live with theirself. These 2 women are not in a position to even speak about other medications other than to normalize the sxs you are experiencing while taking them. The other issue about her advice on isolation is that some people like myself who suffer from major physical sxs keep trying to push myself to get out and do things but it only makes me feel worse, so she tells me my cns isn't ready I must be patient and that the isolation isn't going to harm me. A ton of people have tried ERT and EMDR, etc all to find it was a waste of money because this is chemical not organic mental sxs. So I think by now she has come to realize that seeing people waste so much money is frustrating and a waste of time. There is no way any therapy could help my mental sxs right now.  But for you it worked (I've really not seen this much when its truly wd) and thats great but you have to remeber Baylissa and Dr. Jenn both suffered awful mental and physical sxs and they both rode it out and it went away. So the most safe recommendations for them and their clients is for them to normalize your situation and be your support and cheerleader any thing other than that would be considered out of their lane. They do tell us this, ive heard them say it several times. We have to make our own choices and we can't rely on someone else to make them for us, unfortunately, it would be amazing if a program existed to get everything we need to survive wd, however we don't and thats is why this is such a difficult journey. Your only a year out so I wouldn't diagnosed myself with a mental illness. If you are feeling better taking another medication and doing treatment then thats OK, others have done so as well and made that choice to get through their journey, nothing wrong with that.

Again I agree with some of this. I think the main thing to take away is they are liable if they give any advice that can get them in trouble. Baylissa is not a doctor and will go out of her way to make sure she isn’t giving prescriptive advice. Her services are mostly for coping. Even if using as a therapist she can’t diagnose people over the phone. The 50% you mention about tolerating medication is just made up though there’s no proof of that. Many people do well on other medication to help manage their mental illness as many were on benzos for anxiety. I also don’t think it matters if something is chemical or not. People put too much stock into the semantics of all this stuff in the groups. I just originally decided to comment to JayTay0 because I think Baylissa gets unnecessary heat. What she does for this community is truly selfless. She’s only one women, she can only do so much especially with all of the crisis management that goes into it. Is she perfect, no but she’s genuine and there’s not many people willing to help all these people.

Well I've been diagnosed by like four different psychiatrists as OCD including at a program specifically for OCD at the top psychiatric hospital in the country so I'm going to listen to them and not blame the literal NONSTOP intrusive thoughts I was experiencing on some protracted withdrawal waiting for some magical healing date when they just go away.

 

Baylissa herself might not offer tapering advice but she was the one who introduced me to a friend of hers who is very much involved in the online alternative community and she certainly had no problem at all telling me to updose to stabilize or reinstate and go much slower or do liquid tapers with milk or switch to Valium even when no doctors for years would even look at the Ashton Manual when I would print it out and bring it with me on appointments. It wasted A LOT of time and did nothing to avoid acute withdrawal or prepare me for the absolute onslaught of the OCD symptoms in addition to everything else I went through suffering at home. Like four years when all was said and done.

 

 

I think this is very strange, even when  i was tapering she might have told me these are your options but i know she would  have never told  me which one I should choose, thats a big difference. And that's fine if you accept your diagnosis, if you had these issues before wd, wd will not cure it. If you did not have this before wd then it will eventually go. These psychiatrist have to give you a diagnosis, thats their job as well as prescribe medications. If you didn't have ocd before then I dont know why you don't believe it will go once you heal just like 1,000s of others who got OCD from wd as well and it went away when they healed.  Time frames are definitely the hardest part of this journey,  not knowing when is tortuous, so I understand your decision to try something. If it works then thats wonderful. We all need this to end asap and so I would never judge anyone for trying something and bonus if it helps. As far as an online person she recommended, not sure what this person does so you'll have to elaborate. I just get very defensive for these guys who are out their trying to help and there us no one else helping and then I see people blame them for their awful experience, its just not fair, this journey absolutely sucks and its no ones fault but ours, we took the med and unfortunately any advice we get is just a guess. Someone somewhere has taken advice and half the people succeeded with this advice and the other half failed. Its a no win situation this journey. I think they get alot of slack when at the end of the day who else is out there trying to help us......no one!

Well I've been diagnosed by like four different psychiatrists as OCD including at a program specifically for OCD at the top psychiatric hospital in the country so I'm going to listen to them and not blame the literal NONSTOP intrusive thoughts I was experiencing on some protracted withdrawal waiting for some magical healing date when they just go away.

 

Baylissa herself might not offer tapering advice but she was the one who introduced me to a friend of hers who is very much involved in the online alternative community and she certainly had no problem at all telling me to updose to stabilize or reinstate and go much slower or do liquid tapers with milk or switch to Valium even when no doctors for years would even look at the Ashton Manual when I would print it out and bring it with me on appointments. It wasted A LOT of time and did nothing to avoid acute withdrawal or prepare me for the absolute onslaught of the OCD symptoms in addition to everything else I went through suffering at home. Like four years when all was said and done.

I agree with you and if you’re being helped by the medication there’s no need to defend yourself. I actually do agree with everything you wrote in your original post after reading it over other then your stance on Baylissa but then again everyone is entitled to their opinion. People aren’t saying there’s a magic healing date though. I think things do get better in time. I’ve had intrusive thoughts in the past in high school and antidepressants did help me. I went off them and they didn’t return. It was more the stress I was going through at that time in my life, puberty and highschool etc...  Stress and anxiety makes OCD worse. I understand how you feel though as prior to that my OCD manifested more in the traditional sense with cleaning and stuff although it was never extreme. I too was shocked when I had the thoughts but looking back it’s funny I believed any of the stuff my brain was telling me. It was torturous though and really makes you question yourself. I have them again now but they have latched onto something else completely but I know if I can get some other things better I’ll be less stressed and they’ll fade. If you’re doing better though I’d try to avoid these forums and groups as much as you can. Like you said they aren’t helpful other than in the beginning.

Thank you! I appreciate that and I think it's good advice.

You’re welcome. We have to do what’s best for us and people in these groups aren’t living our lives. There’s really no one size fits all for this so we have to come to our own answer.

Yes for sure. I know that what Baylissa and Jennifer Leigh do comes from a place of genuine desire to help I just think for me it wound up being honestly a bit dangerous. Having an obsessive and anxious mind to begin with and then doubting like is this "true" OCD or is it withdrawal that is just going to pass if I hold on longer. I was terrified to seek other treatment and had been on a garbage bag full of other meds over the years since first being put on benzos in 2012 but it wasn't until I was properly diagnosed that I found the right meds that could help. I was very active on this forum and on the different Facebook groups for years and really distanced myself for a long time. I'm not sure why I even returned other than I feel this sense of obligation to reach out to people suffering from these mental symptoms who also might be scared to seek professional help that while it can be difficult to diagnose properly outside of those who specialize in it that OCD is treatable and people just don't have to suffer as much as I did. It scares me knowing that these sort of symptoms drive people to the point of suicide when it could be avoided with proper treatment. While throughout my life I have had symptoms of what I now understand to be OCD they did not truly manifest in the "Pure O" manner for me until I got very low on my taper and then completely off. So I don't know if the Klonopin was masking these symptoms or if it caused them or if some combination of both along with the immense amount of stress I was going through at the time brought them all to come out but what matters is that it's treatable with meds and the right kind of therapy. For me being reassured by Baylissa that these were normal parts of withdrawal that would eventually pass just wasn't enough. Like I said I think her intentions are good but for situations like that I think it really needs to be handled by experts who specialze in these areas. Just my opinion.

Yeah I understand. I think most people that find something that works for them want to come back and help other people. I’ve actually never had any issues with antidepressants that I know of and they helped in certain parts of my life. I think they can be helpful for getting out of bad patches and then you can reevaluate if they’re worth continuing. I also now realize that others have had terrible experiences with antidepressants. Every medication has the potential to have side effects and withdrawal symptoms. Many do benefit though so people just have to measure the risks and benefits with these kinds of things.

I have nothing to add to this discussion, but it has been very interesting reading. Thank you, JayTay0, for starting such an informative topic.

Well I've been diagnosed by like four different psychiatrists as OCD including at a program specifically for OCD at the top psychiatric hospital in the country so I'm going to listen to them and not blame the literal NONSTOP intrusive thoughts I was experiencing on some protracted withdrawal waiting for some magical healing date when they just go away.

 

Baylissa herself might not offer tapering advice but she was the one who introduced me to a friend of hers who is very much involved in the online alternative community and she certainly had no problem at all telling me to updose to stabilize or reinstate and go much slower or do liquid tapers with milk or switch to Valium even when no doctors for years would even look at the Ashton Manual when I would print it out and bring it with me on appointments. It wasted A LOT of time and did nothing to avoid acute withdrawal or prepare me for the absolute onslaught of the OCD symptoms in addition to everything else I went through suffering at home. Like four years when all was said and done.

 

 

I think this is very strange, even when  i was tapering she might have told me these are your options but i know she would  have never told  me which one I should choose, thats a big difference. And that's fine if you accept your diagnosis, if you had these issues before wd, wd will not cure it. If you did not have this before wd then it will eventually go. These psychiatrist have to give you a diagnosis, thats their job as well as prescribe medications. If you didn't have ocd before then I dont know why you don't believe it will go once you heal just like 1,000s of others who got OCD from wd as well and it went away when they healed.  Time frames are definitely the hardest part of this journey,  not knowing when is tortuous, so I understand your decision to try something. If it works then thats wonderful. We all need this to end asap and so I would never judge anyone for trying something and bonus if it helps. As far as an online person she recommended, not sure what this person does so you'll have to elaborate. I just get very defensive for these guys who are out their trying to help and there us no one else helping and then I see people blame them for their awful experience, its just not fair, this journey absolutely sucks and its no ones fault but ours, we took the med and unfortunately any advice we get is just a guess. Someone somewhere has taken advice and half the people succeeded with this advice and the other half failed. Its a no win situation this journey. I think they get alot of slack when at the end of the day who else is out there trying to help us......no one!

 

I don't blame her for my awful experience I mean I was prescribed benzos without any explanation that they were addicting or incredibly difficult to come off of. But I do think she's a bit out of her league in these crisis interventions that she fields everyday. People in crisis need professional help that a virtual therapist/coach/advisor can't provide. I think normalizing things like suicidal ideation as part of the process can be incredibly dangerous. I can only speak to my own experience but being told that I know I won't act on the thoughts when they were telling me to do all sorts of dangerous things just wasn't enough. I don't think the most skilled Buddhist monk on earth could have just sat with that level of frequent and intense intrusive thoughts. Also just being in her webinars and Q&A sessions and hearing stories of people who needed to be handcuffed to a bed in order to survive were really extremely triggering and something my obsessions latched onto and made me really fearful.

 

Her friend works for the benzo information coaltion and the withdrawal connect inner compass and since Baylissa is mentioned by name at the latter it became a bit confusing for me parsing out the guidance I was getting from her with the information that's supported on that site.

 

I completely understand where you are coming from, I really do. I myself was actually diagnosed with pure "O" OCD in College and I took an AD for many years which helped. i decided years later when I was much older and i didnt want to be taking a medication all my life or have chemicals in me anymore so I came off the AD. I was fine without it, i was living a great life. I will tell you I was diagnosed with that disorder from a leading OCD specialist but I still lived a normal life, worked a full time job, had 2 kids, was a great mom, traveled the world, etc. The OCD that I am experiencing now (and did not start until i was at the end of my taper and worse than ever at 8 mo out, and how I know for sure its wd) is NOTHING compared to what I lived with prior to. This is OCD on massive steroids. I also never had any of the physical sxs Im experiencing now(see where Im going wit that). Baylissa has been an integral part of my journey because of the amount of clients that she has seen and has been able to tell me that wd will magnify anything you have that is vulnerable. People have had old surgery sites or injuries become extremely painful in wd, that does not mean they have new injuries or reinjured their surgery site. So this is where her experience comes into play, she also knows that I am extremely sensitive now and am unable to take any medications or supplements. Alot of people become extremely sensitive (not all) during wd and things they could tolerate before wd they cannot tolerate now (supposedly once Im healed I will be able to, however for me Im done with meds, but no judgement here, just my choice). So as you can see this whole thing is a very complex issue that Baylissa tries her very best to stay in her lane yet try to help people the best she can. If you take her away because her giving any advice is just simply not going to work for someone then you must take away everyone from helping because that is an impossible task. She is absolutely going to make someone upset, or try to help someone and it not work, thats a given in this particular journey. We NEED people in this community to help, zero therapist or psychiatrist was ever able to help me and if anything they were about to get me into a worse situation, that ended up being a dead road for me. If it weren't for Baylissa I could not have managed this awful experience, and so many others have felt the same. Im just trying to get you to see the value in her work and how its not just that simple. Her experience and years in this community is enough to need her around. I think more of what you are saying is that being afraid of medication is very detrimental for some people in wd and I agree with you, I have seen it work miracles and help people out of this nightmare, so yes one size fits all is not good here. Baylissa is the one that gets the calls from people is a psych ward in major crisis because they did try medications and it was a terrible choice for them, so from her perspective its much to dangerous for her to even go there. She isn't wrong, many many many people have had horrific OCD that never had it before wd (imagine the ones that did!!) and it went away once they healed. This is how she knows and can tell you this with confidence. With you and I however its a bit more difficult because we had these issues before. BUT I know i will return to the person I was before with OCD, wd has not cured this. I lived with my OCD unmedicated for about a year and a half after i got off the AD and I remember thinking this isnt bad at all, I dont need meds. I took the benzo because i tried progesterone(its a women thing) and had a horrible reaction so they gave me a benzo and I became very sick quickly on that, taking a benzo had nothing to do with my OCD. i was a functioning successful member of society with OCD before benzo wd and I know Ill go back to that.  Its very good to hear that your choice in medication helped you and Im so glad you are benefiting from it. Never feel ashamed of that or question it, go with it and feel a sense of relief, thats amazing!

Thank you for sharing your experience. Yeah it's all so very complex for sure. I just want people to be doing whatever they can to be living according to their values and experience life as best as they can. Whatever gets people to that place is all very individual for sure. I was lucky that my inpatient treatment team correctly diagnosed my issues and that I had access to a 12 week comprehensive program at McLean for OCD. I have been blessed and lucky in that regard despite the hell I went through for years with benzos. Hang in there, you will get your life back.

 

 

Thank you I appreciate that and your welcome. This complex journey is a freaking roller coaster and we all have different twists and turns but we all eventually get off the ride. Your not too far ahead of me in time off so your life will get better and better!

Also FWIW I too would tell the prescribers I was too sensitive for meds after years of trying and researching and I was able to be on max doses of Luvox and now Zyprexa and Gabapentin without any issues (as well as being put on and tapered off Zyprexa and Depakote...no idea why they even put me on that as I'm not bipolar). Not saying you don't have sensitivities or anything just that these doctors do their best with an inexact science and I had lost all faith in any meds being able to help but I'm glad (and lucky) that they have. i also certainly had my share of horrible med experiences. At the dual diagnosis detox I was at initially before they diagnosed me with OCD they were throwing all sorts of heavy meds like seroquel and thorazine at me which did nothing for my intrusive thoughts or images and made me more suicidal. During my first hospitalization I was put on an old anti psychotic called Trilofon which gave me involentary muscle movements so I was lucky I was able to be put on the longer acting meds in a controlled setting at an inpatient facility (which I had been petrified about going to after seeing all the horror stories online). But I respect your choice to be med free if that's what you think is best for you just that even if the OCD was onset from benzos and benzo wd...OCD can be a sneaky, cunning thing to say the least. One thing I've learned is that it will come at us in different forms at different points of our lives, for me changing on a daily if not hourly basis sometimes. If you don't want meds I would recommend maybe finding an ERP therapist that treatment method can really do wonders for OCD symptoms. It's hard work but I've seen a lot of progress. Hope that this was helpful, be well.

 

My sensitivities to medications are that for some people in psych med wd their CNS becomes sensitive to many things, im sensitive now to certain food, chemicals, supplements, stress, and they cause my physical sxs to become way worse. Im now histamine intolerant as well, this is common. I had none of this before benzo wd. My physical sxs are pretty intense as well, also had none of this before benzo wd. If I go back to the OCD before wd, I'll be fine, plus I've learned alot while being home, lots of time on my hands in this. Research after research book after book. When I was in college and diagnosed OCD I was under alot of stress, my diet was horrific, tons of processed sugar and processed carbs, drinking socially like crazy, these 2 things alone can cause extreme anxiousness in certain individuals. I also had 8 silver amalgam fillings(thats alot) and when you research this you will see it can effect the nervous system(mercury), dentist now are using white composite fillings. I also used antibiotics alot as thats what drs did back in the day anytime people were sick they got antibiotics regardless what their illness was. Over use of antibiotics can also cause anxiousness and instability in certain individuals. Epigenetics is a whole other newly researched subject that has been shown to help people to navigate their genes for better mental and physical well being. When I get well I plan to really work on healing my gut and continuing to eat really healthy,  no drinking for me or anything else that will keep my body and brain in a stressed out state. Some people dont get into all this but its quite amazing when you go outside western medicine and not stay in one box.. ive seen a ton of miracles from people going this new direction that the world is starting to realize and go in.. OCD is a fear based problem. Anything that causes your body to be stressed, worried, or out of balance is going to cause this to be a bigger problem. Almost everyone has fear as a benzo sxs so someone with OCD is going to experience to the 100th degree. There is so much more to learn in all this and im excited about my future and what my life will look like after learning all this. This isn't for everyone and medications help alot of people so I will never judge anyone and I will be happy for them that they found a solution. I hate to admit this but wd has absolutely taught me a ton of things I would have never even dived into or learned about if not going through it. Wouldn't say I would choose it again.....lol......but I will take what I can get from it.

Hello,

 

"The first of these is that isolation in withdrawal is not harmful".

 

This is Baylissa and I need to clarify statements made here that are misleading. I can categorically say that I have never ever told anyone that "isolation in withdrawal is not harmful". There are people who are isolated and have no choice. There are people who isolate themselves because they can't cope with the pressures of judgements from well-meaning family members, etc. Everyone's situation is different and having support and interaction goes a long way to enhancing the person's wellbeing. I have said that I was isolated during my withdrawal and felt it worked in my favor. This was not meant to be an endorsement of isolation as a good thing for people in withdrawal and those who have been supported by me over the years will attest to this.

 

 

"The second is the whole notion of villifying "polydrugging". I get that we were all screwed over in one way or another by doctors and to take it a step further the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA."

 

Never once have I objected to polydrugging. Not one in any webinar, Q and A, or private conversation have I ever told anyone to not take other drugs, to not take their adjunct medication, etc. The reason this is true is because it is not something I can say as a therapist. I also would never say it because I have worked with people who have need to take other drugs in order to taper off their medication and I have supported them every bit of the way. This is absolutely not something I do.

 

 

"Having been unwittingly addicted to benzos I lost all faith in doctors and the system itself as I came to believe that they are just profiting off of suffering. This had me wanting to do all of this tapering and withdrawal process naturally with no adjunct meds. What that left me with was CONSTANT torturous looping obsessive thoughts."

 

These are your own personal feelings and nothing to do with me. There are doctors who are very knowledgeable and know what they are doing. I always encourage my clients to see their doctors, get their diagnostics, etc.

 

"Baylissa used to preach that "mental symptoms are to be treated no differently than physical ones in terms of withdrawal" and I just cannot agree with this sentiment."

 

I do agree that I tell people to regard the mental symptoms no different to the physical, in terms of the cause. This does not include people who have pre-existing issues. My advice to people who have had anxiety and depression or who were prescribed the drugs for these issues, is that they will not know how much of what is happening is due to the pre-existing issue and how much is due to withdrawal. I let them know that the most important thing is to be "SAFE" and if they are not safe, they MUST immediately seek attention. If they are safe, they must treat the anxiety and depression with any coping tools that work for them - viz. mindfulness, grounding techniques, etc.  Please note that most of my clients have therapists who they work with and I also work with many of their therapist, explaining withdrawal. Very often we have 3-way sessions. What is written here is misleading.

 

I am glad you got treated and are okay. Many people need medication to get through life and if you are taking meds and are able to live your life fully, then well done and I am happy for you.

 

"The online boards and "experts" like Baylissa and Jennifer Leigh became prime targets for me to seek reassurance on any number of issues which in the long run just fueled my obsessive OCD thought patterns."

I need to clarify that I am not at all an expert and I am always learning. Everyone is biochemically different, with different histories, levels of emotional resilience, unresolved trauma, etc. I completely agree with you that every person needs to be treated individually, and this is why I refer people on if I think I can't help them. I think we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't. Because, ironically, the other people who do exactly what you are doing are the ones who I refer on, who get upset and then blame me for everything. Ah well...

 

I joined Benzo Buddies today to clarify a few things: I do not tell people to not take other meds. I do not tell people not to take supplements. I am very aware of all the research and all the "theories" about other causes of withdrawal or contributors to withdrawal issues, such as mold toxicity, Epstein Barr Virus (EBV), Lyme disease, mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS) and other histamine-related problems, leaky gut syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) or myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME), small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO), H pylori, candidiasis, mercury poisoning, other heavy metal poising, parasites infestation, vagus nerve inflammation, MTHFR mutation, myelin sheath damage, adrenaline exhaustion/fatigue, B12 and other deficiencies.

 

I have a great functional medicine doctor and I healed my thyroid naturally. I intermittent fast, do the ketogenic way of life for my dystonia and I take my fair share of supplements (a lot). I follow Dr Mark Hyman, Dr Perlmutter, Dr Axe, Dr Jason Fung... all of them. I believe food is medicine and that the gut is the second brain. During my most recent medical check, the doctor said I am 10 years younger in health than my age. All of this to say I am not "old school" and stuck in my views.

 

However, I am the person people seek out when they react to the different protocols, supplements, etc., and so I do not give medical advice because no one size fits all and, also, I am not qualified to do so. I will continue to encourage people to not give up and help in any way I can. What they choose to do while they await their healing is entirely up to them.

 

I wish everyone only the best. Healing, happiness and new beginnings... whatever that means for you.

 

Thank you and best regards

 

I have posted an an announcement relating to this and and the other related removed threads.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=253625.0

Baylissa I was in your group for like seven years and I legitimately did not see one person heal. It was the same people suffering week in and week out in your Q & A’s and Zoom chats. But I “healed” when I left and actually found professional treatment instead of waiting for time to heal my 24/7 intrusive thoughts, GAD and MDD.

 

OMG is this true? This is very depressing information. Ruined my day

Baylissa I was in your group for like seven years and I legitimately did not see one person heal. It was the same people suffering week in and week out in your Q & A’s and Zoom chats. But I “healed” when I left and actually found professional treatment instead of waiting for time to heal my 24/7 intrusive thoughts, GAD and MDD.

 

OMG is this true? This is very depressing information. Ruined my day

 

This is from JayTay's perspective. It also should be remembered that tougher, more protracted cases will tend to seek out such support. Further - and although I do not assert this in any particular cases - some people will have comorbid ailments and conditions. It is important to not extrapolate from unusual self-selecting groups and anecdotal reports. In short, although I do not dispute JayTay's perspective on her own personal experiences, you should not take her reports to heart. You are not her, and her report does not relate to you.

This is not meant to dishearten people please don’t take it the wrong way. I had what I came to find out as undiagnosed OCD along with the anxiety/panic disorders and major depressive disorder that I either had before going on benzos or that developed when my life fell apart as I was unable to function or even really leave the house. The intrusive thoughts did not appear until I got low on my taper and really went off the wall when I got off and because this is normalized as a part of the wd process for some and due to my lack of understanding or education about OCD I did not know this.  For ME I needed other meds and ocd therapy as well as lots of hard work in therapy groups and recovery support groups like AA. I’m “healed” of all the nasty acute withdrawal symptoms that I experienced and I’m doing much, much better. It was just in my experience that in the several years I was part of the online community I wasn’t seeing people moving on.

 

My objective in my posts was not to scare people. That’s not it at al I am genuinely trying to help others who I see stuck suffering with these OCD symptoms by giving my own personal experience.

 

I think the main lesson was, if something does not change at all after a longer period of time, we need to find new options - no matter what we are told. No matter if it is a doctor telling us to stay on a medication and we feel it is not okey to do so, or if it is staying in facebook or other groups and repeating healing claims but it does not change a thing. What serves one is not good for the other. It can go in both ways, some people would feel better had they changed the medication or therapist or doctor they trust earlier, and other would feel better if they had taken a difference advice and never gone on meds.

 

The only fact we all share is that no one out there has the ultimate truth - for anyone. It is up to us to nourish and develop this inner wisdom and to listen to the inner voice that is telling us "no, this is not the right fit" and then develop an inner strength to walk into the unknown and find new options. I can relate to everyone who has done this step and feels he or she should have done that earlier, but then please be kind to yourself also - this is just a huge task to do. But I think personally as soon as you have developed this inner attitude how to handle a crisis and how to find new options or practice what you need - this will safe you for the hole life. Cause then you have yourself as a partner at your side. No matter if you try a new diet, find a new partner,... I am sure this time you will listen to the inner voice. This also means to be able to forgive yourself that you have chosen and tried things that were not helpful. Without trials no success.

That’s fine Jaytay, but you went on and on and caused a lot of trouble for innocent people.  I was forced off my klon cold turkey you tapered for a very long time.  Our stories are different.  I don’t know your circumstances nor reasons for tapering.  But I don’t blame the doctor, Baylissa or BB.  I will reach out for any support available to me.  I am alone in this fight and taking more meds is not a option.  I can’t say if once you were off in time you would have healed.  You chose to go on meds.  Nobody knows your reasons.  I do know that a lot of people who are off meds heal in time according to all the stuff I can find and read.  So had you chosen to go med free you may have healed but that was not what you chose.  Why did you start your taper?  You don’t say that anywhere.  You say you have been in this community for 7 years but have only been a member here since 2019?  Were you a member under a different name while tapering?

Also you don’t think that being off your benzo had anything to do with your recovery?

I thank you for your honesty.  Mine were never as severe as yours and have gotten much better.  I function but it’s hard as hell.  I have to as there is no other options.  I have no idea where you found a team to help you as I have searched every where.  Many have survived, healed and are living there lives.  I can only hope that with more time I will heal.  I do have a date that if I have not seen substantial tangible healing I too will have to go inpatient some where for my own sanity.  I have come too far to give up just yet.  But it does not mean that I don’t want too some days.  All I want is for all of us to find our own path and solutions.  I hope you continue to thrive and move on with your life.  I pray I am right behind you.

 

Sincerely,

 

G

 

Hey Jay, you say in seven years you saw same people in chat room with no one improving.

 

I feel if people who  were with Baylissa for such a long time and they were not healing,we would have more people here talking bad about Baylissa service.

 

I could be wrong , I am just confused by that statement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some people as you know taper that long.  You know because you did.  It was not until after you jumped that you chose a different path.  It’s okay it’s just not my option.  I was CT’d.  I have no idea what will be my decision.  Right now I am trying to get through today.

JayTay0. I was wondering if your DPDR went away.

It did yes. That was one of my worst and most persistent symptoms when I was still on klonopin/tapering and it went away a month or two after I jumped and haven’t experienced it.

Ah ok. It went away before starting the antidepressant and Gabapentin?

Here it is BenzoLottie!

 

And thank you Jaytay for your honesty.  Have a blessed week and I will check in if I can.

 

Sincerely,

 

G