Regarding the Removed Threads Referencing Baylissa Frederick

There have been a few threads of late discussing Baylissa Fredrick. The threads were removed for review - not to protect the sensitivities of any particular psychotherapist or the views of a subset of our members. The Admins and I have now completed our review of the threads (including the posts self-deleted by individual members).

I wish to point out that individual members are responsible for the content they post at BB. If you overstep the line, you potentially open up yourself to legal action. To be clear, I am not suggesting that I think any of the content here was potentially libelous. But as I have explained, it is for each of you determine what is fair comment.

Our actual concerns about the threads were twofold: 1) that the threads were becoming overly heated; and 2) that members should generally adhere to BenzoBuddies' posting guidelines. We have determined that although things were getting a bit heated in some instances, members were in the main posting within guidelines.

Expression of views and robust debate are part and parcel of posting to just about any discussion board. We have no desire to curtail this. If it is OK for one person to wax lyrical about a particular service, then surely it is OK for another to express dissatisfaction with the same service.

JayTay0 was generally dissatisfied with the service she received. Her comments appear balanced and could not be described as a diatribe. There was nothing in her posts which could be construed as being in poor taste or vindictive. She was simply dissatisfied, expressed her views from her perspective, and explained her reasons.

Baylissa Frederick joined the forum a few days ago. It seems clear that she did this in response to a 'heads-up' from a member about the threads here which referenced her services. Here is a copy of Frederick's introductory message:

Hi, I took clonazepam for almost eight years and had a difficult time. I joined the forum to read through posts and to understand better the current thinking.

 

Thank you

 

7.5 years clonazepam (Rivotril)

Ashton crossover to Valium

The above introduction, expressing Frederick's reasons for joining the forum were clearly disingenuous. Honesty and transparency are very important qualities for a counsellor and these were lacking. She then went on (in another post) to address specific comments from JayTay0. Although she did not name her, Frederick's use of quotations within the same thread did indeed identify JayTay as the author of the quoted material. This public reaction, directly addressing JayTay was a very problematic action to take by a practicing psychotherapist. And all the more so given that Frederick was knowingly addressing, and in public a former client. Frankly, the Team and I are appalled.

The thread created by JayTay0 was very productive and useful. All participants had been respectful of each other, engaged genuinely and expressed empathy. It was a model discussion. That is, until Baylissa Frederick added her comments.

I think it would be useful for me to quote the opening post from JayTay:

I've been a part of the "online benzo community" for nearly a decade at this point and now coming up on one year post microtaper there are some things that I feel like I have more clarity on and wish that I could pass on to people still very much enveloped by their struggles that are hopefully helpful.

 

After becoming dependent on Ativan following the onset of panic attacks my introduction to the online benzo community was Baylissa Fredricks' book and Bloom in Wellness book. Over the years I attended her webinars, Q&A's, Zoom meetings, online chats and others and while she had the best intentions there are some pieces of advice that she gave to me and others that just are not sitting right with me and I wanted to address.

 

The first of these is that isolation in withdrawal is not harmful. As my agoraphobia exploded and I was left unable to work, drive, see friends or even leave the house I really latched on to this and strived for the day that I would be benzo free and able to do all these things again. A year post taper I am able to enjoy these things which I really value but that isolation took a massive toll on my mental well being. I don't believe isolation is ever healthy for anyone in any situation and I honestly can't believe that someone who claims to be a therapist would advise anyone that it is. Connection is a core neccesity for survival for human beings. And it's my belief that insulated online communities just aren't enough to fulfil this need. I also think that while they can be supportive there is A LOT of fear mongering and ruminating which does not promote well being or advancement in recovery. It just keeps people stuck in a victim role sometimes for a very, very long time. Of course I was angry with my prescribers for not giving me informed consent or any sort of warning that these meds were addictive. I stayed angry for years and it didn't make my quality of life any better feeling helpless to do anything about it. It wasn't until I adopted a sense of radical acceptance that the past is the past, it happened, it's reality and no amount of ruminating is going to change that that I could begin to move forward even though it is something I still grapple with to this day.

 

The second is the whole notion of villifying "polydrugging". I get that we were all screwed over in one way or another by doctors and to take it a step further the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA. Having been unwittingly addicted to benzos I lost all faith in doctors and the system itself as I came to believe that they are just profiting off of suffering. This had me wanting to do all of this tapering and withdrawal process naturally with no adjunct meds. What that left me with was CONSTANT torturous looping obsessive thoughts. Baylissa used to preach that "mental symptoms are to be treated no differently than physical ones in terms of withdrawal" and I just cannot agree with this sentiment. In my case I not only had a lifelong panic/anxiety disorder in addition to substance abuse but I had undiagnosed OCD that I was just coping with naturally waiting for this "normal part of the benzo wd process" to go away. I did everything in my power to do that but I was in a BAD way and if I hadn't been so afraid of psych meds and being "polydrugged" my suffering could have been aleviated exponentionally if I hadn’t been indoctrinated with this anti psychiatry way of thinking. I see all over these forums that nothing you can take can ease withdrawal symptoms but for me as soon as I got properly diagnosed and medicated and TREATED for OCD the intensity and frequency of my intrusive thoughts became so much more manageable. This might not be the case for everyone but I would like to say to anyone suffering with these mental symptoms like looping, intrusive thoughts that it could be something that you need OCD specific treatment for like ERP exposure therapy. I did not know OCD could manifest in such a way as I only thought of it in the traditional form of someone counting or flicking ligh switches but it can also be "pure obsessive" or in the form of mental rituals. Rituals can take the form of such things as analyzing, worrying, ruminating and seeking reassurance. The online boards and "experts" like Baylissa and Jennifer Leigh became prime targets for me to seek reassurance on any number of issues which in the long run just fueled my obsessive OCD thought patterns. Their intentions are good I believe but they are just people who went through withdrawal and every person needs to be treated to their individual situations. We put so much stock into that pill that I believe we ignore things like our history, our genetics our environment, our social situation, etc. I had panic attacks and generalized anxiety dating back to my early childhood and my dad has them as well so being told that my anxiety would magically disappear after I got off Klonopin and "healed" never made sense to me and is not what happened in reality.

 

Which is also what I wanted to touch on in terms of this whole notion of "healing", that "time is the only healer", etc. I'm sorry but I just don't think this is true. Anyone in recovery from addiction of any kind is in need of physical, mental and spiritual healing. I used to get so mad when people would call me an "addict" and tell them I was tolerant and that I was different from anyone else addicted to substances like alcohol, meth, heroin, even given my history of being addicted to and abusing Adderall. I was in deep denial of my addiction and my mental illness as everything I was being told was to be attributed to benzos. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if I got addicted unwittingly. There are hundreds of thousands of people who unwittingly became addicted to opiates. What matters is how we recover. We can sit around and Google information on GABA receptors and glutamate and the HPA axis and whatever else all day everyday but is it helping our recovery? Is it moving us toward our values and our goals? Is it accomplishing anything positive in our lives? For me it wasn't, the influx of available information on the internet just added to my confusion and my fear. I don't understand what this magical "healing" date even means. I'm a year out and I am working and functioning and enjoying a lot of things I value in life again but I also still deal with intrusive thoughts and depression and anxiety every single day. My muscle pains and insomnia and ridiculously intense panic attacks from acute withdrawal (which still happened despite doing a long microtaper btw...in my experience and opinion it's unavoidable when our blood level drops to a certain point no matter what people say) are gone and have been for several months but I still deal with these mental symptoms that have been normalized online as part of the withdrawal process that will eventually heal. Well...for me they needed to be TREATED by medication and therapy, not seeking reassurance from Baylissa and the forums that these things would just heal in time.

 

These are just some things about the online community I felt I needed to get off my chest and I hope that someone still feeling lost, confused and stuck took them to heart.

And, advisedly, I also include a copy of Frederick's reply to JayTay:

Hello,

 

"The first of these is that isolation in withdrawal is not harmful".

 

This is Baylissa and I need to clarify statements made here that are misleading. I can categorically say that I have never ever told anyone that "isolation in withdrawal is not harmful". There are people who are isolated and have no choice. There are people who isolate themselves because they can't cope with the pressures of judgements from well-meaning family members, etc. Everyone's situation is different and having support and interaction goes a long way to enhancing the person's wellbeing. I have said that I was isolated during my withdrawal and felt it worked in my favor. This was not meant to be an endorsement of isolation as a good thing for people in withdrawal and those who have been supported by me over the years will attest to this.

 

 

"The second is the whole notion of villifying "polydrugging". I get that we were all screwed over in one way or another by doctors and to take it a step further the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA."

 

Never once have I objected to polydrugging. Not one in any webinar, Q and A, or private conversation have I ever told anyone to not take other drugs, to not take their adjunct medication, etc. The reason this is true is because it is not something I can say as a therapist. I also would never say it because I have worked with people who have need to take other drugs in order to taper off their medication and I have supported them every bit of the way. This is absolutely not something I do.

 

 

"Having been unwittingly addicted to benzos I lost all faith in doctors and the system itself as I came to believe that they are just profiting off of suffering. This had me wanting to do all of this tapering and withdrawal process naturally with no adjunct meds. What that left me with was CONSTANT torturous looping obsessive thoughts."

 

These are your own personal feelings and nothing to do with me. There are doctors who are very knowledgeable and know what they are doing. I always encourage my clients to see their doctors, get their diagnostics, etc.

 

"Baylissa used to preach that "mental symptoms are to be treated no differently than physical ones in terms of withdrawal" and I just cannot agree with this sentiment."

 

I do agree that I tell people to regard the mental symptoms no different to the physical, in terms of the cause. This does not include people who have pre-existing issues. My advice to people who have had anxiety and depression or who were prescribed the drugs for these issues, is that they will not know how much of what is happening is due to the pre-existing issue and how much is due to withdrawal. I let them know that the most important thing is to be "SAFE" and if they are not safe, they MUST immediately seek attention. If they are safe, they must treat the anxiety and depression with any coping tools that work for them - viz. mindfulness, grounding techniques, etc.  Please note that most of my clients have therapists who they work with and I also work with many of their therapist, explaining withdrawal. Very often we have 3-way sessions. What is written here is misleading.

 

I am glad you got treated and are okay. Many people need medication to get through life and if you are taking meds and are able to live your life fully, then well done and I am happy for you.

 

"The online boards and "experts" like Baylissa and Jennifer Leigh became prime targets for me to seek reassurance on any number of issues which in the long run just fueled my obsessive OCD thought patterns."

I need to clarify that I am not at all an expert and I am always learning. Everyone is biochemically different, with different histories, levels of emotional resilience, unresolved trauma, etc. I completely agree with you that every person needs to be treated individually, and this is why I refer people on if I think I can't help them. I think we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't. Because, ironically, the other people who do exactly what you are doing are the ones who I refer on, who get upset and then blame me for everything. Ah well...

 

I joined Benzo Buddies today to clarify a few things: I do not tell people to not take other meds. I do not tell people not to take supplements. I am very aware of all the research and all the "theories" about other causes of withdrawal or contributors to withdrawal issues, such as mold toxicity, Epstein Barr Virus (EBV), Lyme disease, mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS) and other histamine-related problems, leaky gut syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) or myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME), small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO), H pylori, candidiasis, mercury poisoning, other heavy metal poising, parasites infestation, vagus nerve inflammation, MTHFR mutation, myelin sheath damage, adrenaline exhaustion/fatigue, B12 and other deficiencies.

 

I have a great functional medicine doctor and I healed my thyroid naturally. I intermittent fast, do the ketogenic way of life for my dystonia and I take my fair share of supplements (a lot). I follow Dr Mark Hyman, Dr Perlmutter, Dr Axe, Dr Jason Fung... all of them. I believe food is medicine and that the gut is the second brain. During my most recent medical check, the doctor said I am 10 years younger in health than my age. All of this to say I am not "old school" and stuck in my views.

 

However, I am the person people seek out when they react to the different protocols, supplements, etc., and so I do not give medical advice because no one size fits all and, also, I am not qualified to do so. I will continue to encourage people to not give up and help in any way I can. What they choose to do while they await their healing is entirely up to them.

 

I wish everyone only the best. Healing, happiness and new beginnings... whatever that means for you.

 

Thank you and best regards

The Admins and I have decided to return the entire thread (from which the two quotes appear) to the forum with no redactions.

Although there is no legal requirement to do so, but given that Frederick practices independently, I would have expected that she was registered with one of the national professional organisations. I have checked the databases of both BACP and UKCP; Baylissa Frederick appears in neither. I have also checked her 'About Me' page at her website - she references no professional affiliation, supervision, or any oversight of her practice.

The Ethical Framework of the BACP might make for interesting reading for our members. The Framework is an excellent set of principles and guidance. They also provide a public register of members. They take violations of the Ethical Framework very seriously. I strongly recommend that members make use of the BACP Registry and similar high standard registries from other countries. (But be sure to not confuse BACP-type lists with with open directories where anyone can add their name for a small fee and with no effective ethical framework).

This spat has thrown up a few issues which requires the Team's consideration. We will review the appropriate rules over the next few days to see how they might be updated. But we do not wish to so hamstring members that they cannot discuss counselling services. A proper discussion of such services necessarily includes naming practitioners and providers. However, this is not a green light for members to post either diatribes or content akin to advertising copy. Again, I remind members that you are responsible for the words you use: keep your comments factual, or else framed as opinion based upon facts. No diatribes, and no overly promotional comment which reads like advertising. And, most importantly, the new rules expressly disallow member recommendations for counsellors who are not registered with a professional body, irrespective of their personal qualifications and/or experience.

In addition to restoring the Things I wish I had known and advice that I hadn't followed thread started by JayTay, we have also restored one of the 'Baylissa' threads (the one where members are mostly discussing themselves). The other 'Baylissa' thread (which read like advertising copy), the News re Baylissa on Chewing the Fat thread (which served only to direct members to other 'Baylissa' threads), and the Is consult with Baylissa helpful? thread (which also included many posts in the form of testimonials to Frederick's services) are not returned at this time.

We expect that members will have some questions and/or wish to comment, so this announcement is left open to replies.

Edit: The Is consult with Baylissa helpful? thread has been reinstated by the Admins.

How can a professional therapist/councellar write in a self support forum using a nick-name. And giving advice there.

In my country this is not allowed for a good reason, I find it really weird. The best way to respond would be on her official website or at a place where she would act in a way everyone knew from the beginning that it was her. It took a while until I finally understood that she wrote here under the name Gratefulbliss and I thank you Colin for clarifying the situation.

Thank you for the clarification Colin and the rest of the BB Team!

I highly commend you and the Team for being so open and honest about what happened.

Is there a reason why the other thread Is a consult with Baylissa helpful? is not being restored as well.

I had commented on it and didn't think that I crossed any lines, just stated my opinion, but it would be helpful to review as I don't recall exactly what I had said.

Thanks again for the great work and transparency!

Thank you for the clarification Colin and the rest of the BB Team!

 

I highly commend you and the Team for being so open and honest about what happened.

 

Is there a reason why the other thread Is a consult with Baylissa helpful? is not being restored as well.

 

I had commented on it and didn't think that I crossed any lines, just stated my opinion, but it would be helpful to review as I don't recall exactly what I had said.

 

Thanks again for the great work and transparency!

The return of that particular thread is under discussion by the Admins. It has positives compared to the two other threads we have not yet returned. I expect the Admins will make a decision soon.

Thanks so much for the quick reply!

 

JayTay0 was generally dissatisfied with the service she received. Her comments appear balanced and could not be described as a diatribe. There was nothing in her posts which could be construed as being in poor taste or vindictive. She was simply dissatisfied, expressed her views from her perspective, and explained her reasons.

 

Baylissa Frederick joined the forum a few days ago. It seems clear that she did this in response to a 'heads-up' from a member about the threads here which referenced her services. Here is a copy of Frederick's introductory message:

 

Hi, I took clonazepam for almost eight years and had a difficult time. I joined the forum to read through posts and to understand better the current thinking.

 

Thank you

 

7.5 years clonazepam (Rivotril)

Ashton crossover to Valium

 

The above introduction, expressing Frederick's reasons for joining the forum were clearly disingenuous. Honesty and transparency are very important qualities for a counsellor and these were lacking. She then went on (in another post) to address specific comments from JayTay0. Although she did not name her, Frederick's use of quotations within the same thread did in indeed identify JayTay as the author of the quoted material. This public action, directly addressing JayTay was a very problematic action to take by a practicing psychotherapist. And all the more so given that Frederick was knowingly addressing, and in public a former client. Frankly, the Team and I are appalled.

 

The thread created by JayTay0 was very productive and useful. All participants had been respectful of each other, engaged genuinely and expressed empathy. It was a model discussion. That is, until Baylissa Frederick added her comments.

 

 

 

The Admins and I have decided to return the entire thread (from which the two quotes appear) to the forum with no redactions.

 

Although there is no legal requirement to do so, but given that Frederick practices independently, I would have expected that she was registered with one of the national professional organisations. I have checked the databases of both BACP and UKCP, but she appears in neither. I have also checked her 'About Me' page at her website - she references no professional affiliation, supervision, or any oversight of her practice.

 

The Ethical Framework of the BACP might make for interesting reading for our members. The BACP Ethical Framework is an excellent set of principles and guidance. They also provide a public register of members. They take violations of the Framework very seriously. I strongly recommend that members make use of the BACP Registry and similar high standard registries from other countries. (But be sure to not confuse BACP-type lists with with open directories where anyone can add their name for a small fee and with no effective ethical framework).

 

This spat has thrown up a few issues which requires the Team's consideration. We will review the appropriate rules over the next few days to see how they might be updated. But we do not wish to so hamstring members that they cannot discuss counselling services. A proper discussion of such services necessarily includes naming practitioners and providers. However, this is not a green light for members to post either diatribes or content akin to advertising copy. Again, I remind members that you are responsible for the words you use: keep your comments factual, or else framed as opinion based upon facts. No diatribes, and no overly promotional comment which reads like advertising. And, most importantly, the new rules expressly disallow member recommendations for counsellors who are not registered with a professional body, irrespective of their personal qualifications and/or experience.

 

In addition to restoring the Things I wish I had known and advice that I hadn't followed thread started by JayTay, we have also restored one of the 'Baylissa' threads (the one where members are mostly discussing themselves). The other 'Baylissa' thread (which read like advertising copy), the News re Baylissa on Chewing the Fat thread (which served only to direct members to other 'Baylissa' threads), and the Is consult with Baylissa helpful? thread (which also included many posts in the form of testimonials to Frederick's services) are not returned at this time.

 

We expect that members will have some questions and/or wish to comment, so this announcement is left open to replies.

(Post edited by me)

I am pleased to see this thread restored, and like you was appalled at Baylissa's response in it. I was on the fence regarding her already, but her reply in JayTay0's thread cemented my opinion about her. JayTay0 used a lot of restraint, and I felt nothing wrong was said. But IMHO opinion, Baylissa was unprofessional in her reply. Not someone I would turn to in neeed.

But I have other support. My state has a Peer program that my insurance pays for. I was unhappy with my previous peer, and have a temp that I had previously, a woman who C/T'd off benzos and understands completely what I'm going through. She is wonderful. I will be getting another permanent peer better suited to my situation, and my temp Peer knows her and spoke highly of her. They are there to coach me through the process as long as I need them. And they've walked that path. In closing, all I can say is "Baylissa Who"? She has her fans, I will never be one of them.

Thank you to all for restoring JayTay0's thread. 

Baylissa who?

There was a young lass who had things to say,

Some thought it nice,

Others thought twice,

The rest will be forgotten at the end of the day...

Although there is no legal requirement to do so, but given that Frederick practices independently, I would have expected that she was registered with one of the national professional organisations. I have checked the databases of both BACP and UKCP; Baylissa Frederick appears in neither. I have also checked her 'About Me' page at her website - she references no professional affiliation, supervision, or any oversight of her practice.

And, most importantly, the new rules expressly disallow member recommendations for counsellors who are not registered with a professional body, irrespective of their personal qualifications and/or experience.

Early in my withdrawal, I met with two licensed professional counsellors.  Both are recognized as being quite eminent in the Chicago area.  It soon became evident that neither of them was at all familiar with benzodiazepine withdrawal, and the burden was entirely on me to educate them, and ultimately, convince them of how severe and lengthy a benzo injury can be.  After five or six appointments with each, I realized it was doing me more harm than good to see them. 

Since then, I have counselled (long distance), with three people who basically call themselves benzo/psych med withdrawal coaches (Baylissa and two others). All three of these coaches have been able to offer tremendous insight into this problem, through their own lived experience and their ability to share anecdotal evidence from having counselled hundreds or thousands of other patients suffering the same fate.  Needless to say, sessions with these people are infinitely more helpful than the ones I had with those "eminent" mental health professionals in Chicago.  For someone seeking help in the virtually unknown area of psych med withdrawal, knowledge and experience are far more important than official credentials and professional affiliations.  After all, the doctor who prescribed me these meds for decades has more letters of credential after his name than both counsellors combined.

-Jeff   

Although there is no legal requirement to do so, but given that Frederick practices independently, I would have expected that she was registered with one of the national professional organisations. I have checked the databases of both BACP and UKCP; Baylissa Frederick appears in neither. I have also checked her 'About Me' page at her website - she references no professional affiliation, supervision, or any oversight of her practice.

And, most importantly, the new rules expressly disallow member recommendations for counsellors who are not registered with a professional body, irrespective of their personal qualifications and/or experience.

Early in my withdrawal, I met with two licensed professional counsellors.  Both are recognized as being quite eminent in the Chicago area.  It soon became evident that neither of them was at all familiar with benzodiazepine withdrawal, and the burden was entirely on me to educate them, and ultimately, convince them of how severe and lengthy a benzo injury can be.  After five or six appointments with each, I realized it was doing me more harm than good to see them. 

 

Since then, I have counseled (long distance), with three people who basically call themselves benzo/psych med withdrawal coaches (Baylissa and two others). All three of these coaches have been able to offer tremendous insight into this problem, through their own lived experience and their ability to share anecdotal evidence from having counseled hundreds or thousands of other patients suffering the same fate.  Needless to say, sessions with these people are infinitely more helpful than the ones I had with those "eminent" mental health professionals in Chicago.  For someone seeking help in the virtually unknown area of psych med withdrawal, knowledge and experience are far more important than official credentials and professional affiliations.  After all, the doctor who prescribed me these meds for decades has more letters of credential after his name than both counsellors combined.

 

-Jeff 

I suggest that you read the BACP Ethical Framework document I linked in my opening post. Then read more at their website. It is patently dangerous for someone to act as a counsellor or therapist without being suitably qualified. I also suggest that this is true if there is no oversight/supervision of their practice (even if they hold paper qualifications). Without such safeguards, there is nothing protecting their clients when things go wrong.

I write this from a position of some knowledge on the subject. Many years ago I received some training in councelling, with real supervised practice. I am nowhere near well enough trained to offer counselling myself, but educated and experienced enough to understand that counselling and psychotherapy are potentially very dangerous when practiced by the unqualified or those without suitable safeguards in place.

A further thought: always ask for proof of their professional indemnity insurance. No genuine practitioner would be without it. But insurance is not enough in of itself. Proper supervision and an independent method of recourse/complaint are vital too.

For the record, I would see you as a therapist Colin

For the record, I would see you as a therapist Colin

 

I think I could probably practice counselling as a profession. But my heart would not be in it and I probably do not have quite the right temperament anyway. I do not think I would make a good counsellor. Though I might make a mediocre counsellor!

Thank you for the clarification Colin and the rest of the BB Team!

 

I highly commend you and the Team for being so open and honest about what happened.

 

Is there a reason why the other thread Is a consult with Baylissa helpful? is not being restored as well.

 

I had commented on it and didn't think that I crossed any lines, just stated my opinion, but it would be helpful to review as I don't recall exactly what I had said.

 

Thanks again for the great work and transparency!

Update: the Admins have just reinstated the Consult thread. You find it here:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=209790.0

I suggest that you read the BACP Ethical Framework document I linked in my opening post. Then read more at their website. It is patently dangerous for someone to act as a counsellor or therapist without being suitably qualified. I also suggest that this is true if there is no oversight/supervision of their practice (even if they hold paper qualifications). Without such safeguards, there is nothing protecting their clients when things go wrong.

 

I write this from a position of some knowledge on the subject. Many years ago I received some training in councelling, with real supervised practice. I am nowhere near well enough trained to offer counselling myself, but educated and experienced enough to understand that counselling and psychotherapy are potentially very dangerous when practiced by the unqualified or those without suitable safeguards in place.

 

A further thought: always ask for proof of their professional indemnity insurance. No genuine practitioner would be without it. But insurance is not enough in of itself. Proper supervision and an independent method of recourse/complaint are vital too.

I appreciate your reply, and it's a point well taken.  I know there are risks involved.

Thanks,

Jeff 

For the record, I would see you as a therapist Colin

 

 

I think I could probably practice counselling as a profession. But my heart would not be in it and I probably do not have quite the right temperament anyway. I do not think I would make a good counsellor. Though I might make a mediocre counsellor!

Well, it's always good to know one's limitations!!!

Thank you for the clarification Colin and the rest of the BB Team!

 

I highly commend you and the Team for being so open and honest about what happened.

 

Is there a reason why the other thread Is a consult with Baylissa helpful? is not being restored as well.

 

I had commented on it and didn't think that I crossed any lines, just stated my opinion, but it would be helpful to review as I don't recall exactly what I had said.

 

Thanks again for the great work and transparency!

 

Update: the Admins have just reinstated the Consult thread. You find it here:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=209790.0

Thank you!

I suggest that you read the BACP Ethical Framework document I linked in my opening post. Then read more at their website. It is patently dangerous for someone to act as a counsellor or therapist without being suitably qualified. I also suggest that this is true if there is no oversight/supervision of their practice (even if they hold paper qualifications). Without such safeguards, there is nothing protecting their clients when things go wrong.

 

I write this from a position of some knowledge on the subject. Many years ago I received some training in councelling, with real supervised practice. I am nowhere near well enough trained to offer counselling myself, but educated and experienced enough to understand that counselling and psychotherapy are potentially very dangerous when practiced by the unqualified or those without suitable safeguards in place.

 

A further thought: always ask for proof of their professional indemnity insurance. No genuine practitioner would be without it. But insurance is not enough in of itself. Proper supervision and an independent method of recourse/complaint are vital too.

I appreciate your reply, and it's a point well taken.  I know there are risks involved.

Thanks,

Jeff

It is hard to find proper therapists who know what we are going through, not many, I have seen one on YT, she was amazing in that she herself put together that benzos were causing some of her patients to not respond to traditional CBT (more that any psychiatrist has done in my entire country). She has since counselled all of them to get off, but would only do 30 min sessions, as that's all they could take.

I contacted one therapist last week (who sees another BB person on here) and she refused to see me, said that she wasn't qualified etc.

But she direct me to a place where I could potentially find help.

I was devastated, but then did find someone who might be able to help, if not for a few sessions.

I'm glad you found comfort in Baylissa and could afford her, I'm not in that place right now, I'm still too in the thick of it, but I have my mantras.

Baylissa who?

Lol. That's what I eventually said. Great minds think alike, or something to that efect. PS I enjoy your posts Maugham, you are strait up and no nonsense, and say it like it is. We need more of that in here.

OH WOW!!!!!!  In my opinion this says more about Baylissa not only as a therapist but as a person then it does about JayTay!  Really speaks volumes.  I’m in utter shock!

I was hoping you'd see this, and hopefully read JayTay's thread. You're reaction is precisely the one I had after I saw Baylissa's reply to JayTay. Spot on, Paxia!

I have seen one on YT, she was amazing in that she herself put together that benzos were causing some of her patients to not respond to traditional CBT

That's remarkable!  How perceptive of her!  -Jeff

I contacted one therapist last week (who sees another BB person on here) and she refused to see me, said that she wasn't qualified etc. But she direct me to a place where I could potentially find help.

I was devastated, but then did find someone who might be able to help, if not for a few sessions.

I'm glad you found comfort in Baylissa and could afford her, I'm not in that place right now, I'm still too in the thick of it, but I have my mantras.

Thank you.  I hope you find good counsel and comfort as well.  -Jeff

Although there is no legal requirement to do so, but given that Frederick practices independently, I would have expected that she was registered with one of the national professional organisations. I have checked the databases of both BACP and UKCP; Baylissa Frederick appears in neither. I have also checked her 'About Me' page at her website - she references no professional affiliation, supervision, or any oversight of her practice.

And, most importantly, the new rules expressly disallow member recommendations for counsellors who are not registered with a professional body, irrespective of their personal qualifications and/or experience.

Early in my withdrawal, I met with two licensed professional counsellors.  Both are recognized as being quite eminent in the Chicago area.  It soon became evident that neither of them was at all familiar with benzodiazepine withdrawal, and the burden was entirely on me to educate them, and ultimately, convince them of how severe and lengthy a benzo injury can be.  After five or six appointments with each, I realized it was doing me more harm than good to see them. 

 

Since then, I have counseled (long distance), with three people who basically call themselves benzo/psych med withdrawal coaches (Baylissa and two others). All three of these coaches have been able to offer tremendous insight into this problem, through their own lived experience and their ability to share anecdotal evidence from having counseled hundreds or thousands of other patients suffering the same fate.  Needless to say, sessions with these people are infinitely more helpful than the ones I had with those "eminent" mental health professionals in Chicago.  For someone seeking help in the virtually unknown area of psych med withdrawal, knowledge and experience are far more important than official credentials and professional affiliations.  After all, the doctor who prescribed me these meds for decades has more letters of credential after his name than both counsellors combined.

 

-Jeff 

 

I suggest that you read the BACP Ethical Framework document I linked in my opening post. Then read more at their website. It is patently dangerous for someone to act as a counsellor or therapist without being suitably qualified. I also suggest that this is true if there is no oversight/supervision of their practice (even if they hold paper qualifications). Without such safeguards, there is nothing protecting their clients when things go wrong.

 

I write this from a position of some knowledge on the subject. Many years ago I received some training in councelling, with real supervised practice. I am nowhere near well enough trained to offer counselling myself, but educated and experienced enough to understand that counselling and psychotherapy are potentially very dangerous when practiced by the unqualified or those without suitable safeguards in place.

 

A further thought: always ask for proof of their professional indemnity insurance. No genuine practitioner would be without it. But insurance is not enough in of itself. Proper supervision and an independent method of recourse/complaint are vital too.

I mentioned in my above post that while in benzo withdrawal, I have had bad experiences with mainstream mental health professionals and wonderful experiences with benzo withdrawal counsellors.  Colin's above reply was a very practical warning against using any counsellor or therapist who isn't "suitably qualified".

Of the three benzo withdrawal counsellors I've dealt with, one is a doctor (PsyD), one has a Master's degree, and the other is a scientist who knows almost as much about benzo withdrawal as the other two.  (I'm purposely not stating their names because I don't know if it's allowed here on BB anymore.)  I literally do not care one bit what their professional affiliations are.  I could not care less whether they are accredited with the UKPC, BACP, AMHCA, or any other such organization that allegedly oversees and supervises their practice.  In fact, I would rather them not be overseen by some constricting entity.  Whether or not they carry professional indemnity insurance is completely immaterial to me.  What matters to me (and should matter to all of us) is how knowledgeable they are about what it is we suffer from, which is benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome/injury.  What I care about is how long they've been counselling people in benzo withdrawal, how many people they've counselled, and their own lived experience.  What good is a "properly registered" counsellor who has little to no knowledge about what you're suffering from?  Moreover, why should you, the patient, bear the burden of trying to educate your counsellor on your condition, only to be doubted or partially believed.  If you can find an experienced benzo-wise counsellor who holds all the official credentials and affiliations, that would be miraculous.  If there really are any, lets start a list here on BB for everyone to make use of.  Otherwise, think about how beneficial it would be to not have to enlighten your counsellor about your condition, but rather, have your counsellor enlighten you!  That's the way it should be!  Let's let common sense prevail!       

Although there is no legal requirement to do so, but given that Frederick practices independently, I would have expected that she was registered with one of the national professional organisations. I have checked the databases of both BACP and UKCP; Baylissa Frederick appears in neither. I have also checked her 'About Me' page at her website - she references no professional affiliation, supervision, or any oversight of her practice.

And, most importantly, the new rules expressly disallow member recommendations for counsellors who are not registered with a professional body, irrespective of their personal qualifications and/or experience.

Early in my withdrawal, I met with two licensed professional counsellors.  Both are recognized as being quite eminent in the Chicago area.  It soon became evident that neither of them was at all familiar with benzodiazepine withdrawal, and the burden was entirely on me to educate them, and ultimately, convince them of how severe and lengthy a benzo injury can be.  After five or six appointments with each, I realized it was doing me more harm than good to see them. 

 

Since then, I have counseled (long distance), with three people who basically call themselves benzo/psych med withdrawal coaches (Baylissa and two others). All three of these coaches have been able to offer tremendous insight into this problem, through their own lived experience and their ability to share anecdotal evidence from having counseled hundreds or thousands of other patients suffering the same fate.  Needless to say, sessions with these people are infinitely more helpful than the ones I had with those "eminent" mental health professionals in Chicago.  For someone seeking help in the virtually unknown area of psych med withdrawal, knowledge and experience are far more important than official credentials and professional affiliations.  After all, the doctor who prescribed me these meds for decades has more letters of credential after his name than both counsellors combined.

 

-Jeff 

 

I suggest that you read the BACP Ethical Framework document I linked in my opening post. Then read more at their website. It is patently dangerous for someone to act as a counsellor or therapist without being suitably qualified. I also suggest that this is true if there is no oversight/supervision of their practice (even if they hold paper qualifications). Without such safeguards, there is nothing protecting their clients when things go wrong.

 

I write this from a position of some knowledge on the subject. Many years ago I received some training in councelling, with real supervised practice. I am nowhere near well enough trained to offer counselling myself, but educated and experienced enough to understand that counselling and psychotherapy are potentially very dangerous when practiced by the unqualified or those without suitable safeguards in place.

 

A further thought: always ask for proof of their professional indemnity insurance. No genuine practitioner would be without it. But insurance is not enough in of itself. Proper supervision and an independent method of recourse/complaint are vital too.

I already replied to this exact same post earlier today on page 2.  But I've been thinking more about this tonight and I want to reply a second time.  When you read my words, please know that I am not trying to be argumentative or combative, nor am I trying to be difficult or stir up the rabble.

 

I mentioned in my above post that while in benzo withdrawal, I have had bad experiences with mainstream mental health professionals and wonderful experiences with benzo withdrawal counsellors.  Colin's above reply was a very practical warning against using any counsellor or therapist who isn't "suitably qualified".

 

Of the three benzo withdrawal counsellors I've dealt with, one is a doctor (PsyD), one has a Master's degree, and the other is a scientist who knows almost as much about benzo withdrawal as the other two.  (I'm purposely not stating their names because I don't know if it's allowed here on BB anymore.)  I literally do not care one bit what their professional affiliations are.  I could not care less whether they are accredited with the UKPC, BACP, AMHCA, or any other such organization that allegedly oversees and supervises their practice.  In fact, I would rather them not be overseen by some constricting entity.  Whether or not they carry professional indemnity insurance is completely immaterial to me.  What matters to me (and should matter to all of us) is how knowledgeable they are about what it is we suffer from, which is benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome/injury.  What I care about is how long they've been counselling people in benzo withdrawal, how many people they've counselled, and their own lived experience.  What good is a "properly registered" counsellor who has little to no knowledge about what you're suffering from?  Moreover, why should you, the patient, bear the burden of trying to educate your counsellor on your condition, only to be doubted or partially believed.  If you can find an experienced benzo-wise counsellor who holds all the official credentials and affiliations, that would be miraculous.  If there really are any, lets start a list here on BB for everyone to make use of.  Otherwise, think about how beneficial it would be to not have to enlighten your counsellor about your condition, but rather, have your counsellor enlighten you!  That's the way it should be!  Let's let common sense prevail!     

This has true meaning and I thank you for it, Jeff.

I have seen one on YT, she was amazing in that she herself put together that benzos were causing some of her patients to not respond to traditional CBT

That's remarkable!  How perceptive of her!  -Jeff

I contacted one therapist last week (who sees another BB person on here) and she refused to see me, said that she wasn't qualified etc. But she direct me to a place where I could potentially find help.

I was devastated, but then did find someone who might be able to help, if not for a few sessions.

I'm glad you found comfort in Baylissa and could afford her, I'm not in that place right now, I'm still too in the thick of it, but I have my mantras.

Thank you.  I hope you find good counsel and comfort as well.  -Jeff

It has been known for very long time that benzodiazepines can (and often do) interfere with talk therapy. CBT, etc. I do not have a reference to hand, but I read about it at least 15 years ago.

Although there is no legal requirement to do so, but given that Frederick practices independently, I would have expected that she was registered with one of the national professional organisations. I have checked the databases of both BACP and UKCP; Baylissa Frederick appears in neither. I have also checked her 'About Me' page at her website - she references no professional affiliation, supervision, or any oversight of her practice.

And, most importantly, the new rules expressly disallow member recommendations for counsellors who are not registered with a professional body, irrespective of their personal qualifications and/or experience.

Early in my withdrawal, I met with two licensed professional counsellors.  Both are recognized as being quite eminent in the Chicago area.  It soon became evident that neither of them was at all familiar with benzodiazepine withdrawal, and the burden was entirely on me to educate them, and ultimately, convince them of how severe and lengthy a benzo injury can be.  After five or six appointments with each, I realized it was doing me more harm than good to see them. 

 

Since then, I have counseled (long distance), with three people who basically call themselves benzo/psych med withdrawal coaches (Baylissa and two others). All three of these coaches have been able to offer tremendous insight into this problem, through their own lived experience and their ability to share anecdotal evidence from having counseled hundreds or thousands of other patients suffering the same fate.  Needless to say, sessions with these people are infinitely more helpful than the ones I had with those "eminent" mental health professionals in Chicago.  For someone seeking help in the virtually unknown area of psych med withdrawal, knowledge and experience are far more important than official credentials and professional affiliations.  After all, the doctor who prescribed me these meds for decades has more letters of credential after his name than both counsellors combined.

 

-Jeff 

 

I suggest that you read the BACP Ethical Framework document I linked in my opening post. Then read more at their website. It is patently dangerous for someone to act as a counsellor or therapist without being suitably qualified. I also suggest that this is true if there is no oversight/supervision of their practice (even if they hold paper qualifications). Without such safeguards, there is nothing protecting their clients when things go wrong.

 

I write this from a position of some knowledge on the subject. Many years ago I received some training in councelling, with real supervised practice. I am nowhere near well enough trained to offer counselling myself, but educated and experienced enough to understand that counselling and psychotherapy are potentially very dangerous when practiced by the unqualified or those without suitable safeguards in place.

 

A further thought: always ask for proof of their professional indemnity insurance. No genuine practitioner would be without it. But insurance is not enough in of itself. Proper supervision and an independent method of recourse/complaint are vital too.

I already replied to this exact same post earlier today on page 2.  But I've been thinking more about this tonight and I want to reply a second time.  When you read my words, please know that I am not trying to be argumentative or combative, nor am I trying to be difficult or stir up the rabble.

 

I mentioned in my above post that while in benzo withdrawal, I have had bad experiences with mainstream mental health professionals and wonderful experiences with benzo withdrawal counsellors.  Colin's above reply was a very practical warning against using any counsellor or therapist who isn't "suitably qualified".

 

Of the three benzo withdrawal counsellors I've dealt with, one is a doctor (PsyD), one has a Master's degree, and the other is a scientist who knows almost as much about benzo withdrawal as the other two.  (I'm purposely not stating their names because I don't know if it's allowed here on BB anymore.)  I literally do not care one bit what their professional affiliations are.  I could not care less whether they are accredited with the UKPC, BACP, AMHCA, or any other such organization that allegedly oversees and supervises their practice.  In fact, I would rather them not be overseen by some constricting entity.  Whether or not they carry professional indemnity insurance is completely immaterial to me.  What matters to me (and should matter to all of us) is how knowledgeable they are about what it is we suffer from, which is benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome/injury.  What I care about is how long they've been counselling people in benzo withdrawal, how many people they've counselled, and their own lived experience.  What good is a "properly registered" counsellor who has little to no knowledge about what you're suffering from?  Moreover, why should you, the patient, bear the burden of trying to educate your counsellor on your condition, only to be doubted or partially believed.  If you can find an experienced benzo-wise counsellor who holds all the official credentials and affiliations, that would be miraculous.  If there really are any, lets start a list here on BB for everyone to make use of.  Otherwise, think about how beneficial it would be to not have to enlighten your counsellor about your condition, but rather, have your counsellor enlighten you!  That's the way it should be!  Let's let common sense prevail!     

This will have to be a short reply. I will respond, specifically, from the counselling perspective, because this is the one I understand best.

A good counsellor does not need to understand the minutia of your medical condition. Good counselling is not about imparting great advice and sage truths. What good counselling is about is helping you explore your situation, for you to better understand yourself, and to find your own solutions to what ails you. The problem (from the perspective of counselling) is not so much withdrawal itself, but its psychological effects, how they mount up over time, and how you might better react to this stress. It is about reframing the problem and and having a sympathetic, non-judgemental ear. The unqualified and unpracticed in counselling will fall into all manner of traps, immediately and repeatedly. And, just like any other profession, some people - no matter their level of training - will never make good counsellors.

My point about professional indemnity insurance and professional oversight is that they are vitally important to protect people from charlatans, people who are 'qualified' but severely fall short of professionalism, and for recourse (and, potentially, compensation) when things go wrong. Every counsellor will have therapeutic relationships which go astray. A good counsellor will help you find a more suitable counsellor/therapist in such a situation. When there is actual wrongdoing by a counsellor, there had better be a process in place for the client to find recourse. This is not (practically) possible if the counsellor is not registered with a professional body with the necessary teeth to act in such situations.

By all means, take the risks you wish to take. But please, do not try to justify your risk-taking to other members.