where to find instructions for DLMT (non-dump method)

Hi

I've seen instructions on youtube for the milk solution, dumping method. But does anyone know where to find instructions for the Daily Liquid Micro Taper where you do NOT dump any of the medicine and vodka is used as a solvent, where you draw up just the individual doses? I had help from Bella, Jim Hawk and Builder and found it to be so simple - it makes more sense for those worried about running out of their RX....but  I have such a hard time explaining it to anyone with my  brain.  I tell them to search here but they get frustrated. Also, when I send someone to BenzoBuddies and they look up "liquid titration" on the withdrawal methods section it lists the cons for the milk solution and the dump method, (spoilage, being tied to the kitchen, etc) These drawbacks are avoided by using the non-dump, vodka method. I have a great system but don't know the first thing about making a video!

Thanks for reading!

Juelli

Hi juelli 

 

Go here: benzo.alwaysdata.net , select Liquid Taper. The instructions can be found in the "Readme First' section.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Hi

I've seen instructions on youtube for the milk solution, dumping method. But does anyone know where to find instructions for the Daily Liquid Micro Taper where you do NOT dump any of the medicine and vodka is used as a solvent, where you draw up just the individual doses? I had help from Bella, Jim Hawk and Builder and found it to be so simple - it makes more sense for those worried about running out of their RX....but  I have such a hard time explaining it to anyone with my  brain.  I tell them to search here but they get frustrated. Also, when I send someone to BenzoBuddies and they look up "liquid titration" on the withdrawal methods section it lists the cons for the milk solution and the dump method, (spoilage, being tied to the kitchen, etc) These drawbacks are avoided by using the non-dump, vodka method. I have a great system but don't know the first thing about making a video!

Thanks for reading!

Juelli

 

I know your motivation is altruistic, but do folks really need a video to learn how to combine 3 ingredients?  It's about like adding cream and sugar to your coffee.

Hi

I've seen instructions on youtube for the milk solution, dumping method. But does anyone know where to find instructions for the Daily Liquid Micro Taper where you do NOT dump any of the medicine and vodka is used as a solvent, where you draw up just the individual doses? I had help from Bella, Jim Hawk and Builder and found it to be so simple - it makes more sense for those worried about running out of their RX....but  I have such a hard time explaining it to anyone with my  brain.  I tell them to search here but they get frustrated. Also, when I send someone to BenzoBuddies and they look up "liquid titration" on the withdrawal methods section it lists the cons for the milk solution and the dump method, (spoilage, being tied to the kitchen, etc) These drawbacks are avoided by using the non-dump, vodka method. I have a great system but don't know the first thing about making a video!

Thanks for reading!

Juelli

 

I know your motivation is altruistic, but do folks really need a video to learn how to combine 3 ingredients?  It's about like adding cream and sugar to your coffee.

 

Builder-

 

This post is not only offensive and triggering to some of our members, it is condescending and violates the forum Rules & Guidelines

 

Be polite towards, and respectful of, your fellow Buddies. We do not tolerate attacks upon fellow members. Any account created for the purposes of causing arguments and/or ill-feeling will be banned.

 

We have received reports about these type of posts from you. We will not tolerate this. Please refrain from these types of posts in the future or your posting privileges will be restricted.

 

Bella

Its pretty obvious that many folks are intimidated about liquid micro tapering because they perceive it to be complex and difficult.

 

How is anyone harmed or "offended" when I point out the fundamental simplicity of a liquid taper?

 

In my (many) detailed explanations of how to do a DLMT, I frequently compare creating a benzo solution to stirring cream and sugar into a cup of coffee.  I think folks are more likely to be reassured than offended.  No one ever seemed to be offended by my analogy.

I really appreciate Builder's contributions to this board.

 

He is one of the most valuable members when it comes to answering technical questions.

 

Thanks to his help I was able to start a microtaper on liquid diazepam.

 

Once you understand a liquid microtaper and get it going it doesn't seem difficult.  But before you have started  and you are and trying to figure out how to do it while facing the fear of tapering, it is different story.  And trying to explain it to someone who is unfamiliar with it and suffering from anxiety and fear of the prospect can be challenging--especially if you are trying to write it down in a step-by-step manner.  I looked at one of my recent posts where I try to explain in a step by step manner how to mix liquid diazepam with water and realize that I did not write it as clearly as I could have.

I agree.I know I'm new here but Builder gave me the motivation and encouragement I needed to go from tablet to liquid solution.He is definitely a major asset to BB.Extremely knowledgeable.Mr Jim Hawk is also amazing and I appreciate them both.Just my 2 cents.That being said,I know on Jim Hawks calculator webpage there are step by step instructions.I think the same instructions for using ethanol(vodka) should be a permanent thread like the ones for milk and babyfood.Again,my 2 cents,that way Builder and others dont have to repeat the process everytime someone new joins.Blessings to you all

Hi juelli 

 

Go here: benzo.alwaysdata.net , select Liquid Taper. The instructions can be found in the "Readme First' section.

 

Hope it helps.

 

 

Jim,

 

Thank you kindly. I've been searching for these exact directions. This is how I learned to do the taper last spring but just couldn't re-locate them. Now I use the calculator by rote and must have become blind to the link. My friend thought "read me first" was more detailed disclaimer info and never clicked on it. Ugh. It must be very trying to deal with our mushy, scattered brains  but I appreciate your kind, patient demeanor!

 

I do wish the "Withdrawal Methods" section was updated to include this non-dump procedure and its benefits. Most people I chat with have not heard of it. Those who have assume it's very difficult. That's why I was thinking a video would be helpful as well, not only for the instructions but for the visibility on-line.  Dry cutting looked very tedious to me. Water/milk titration would have added another chore to my already overwhelming morning. This method takes me about a half hour every 1-2 weeks. Learning it saved me.

 

Gratefully,

J

Its pretty obvious that many folks are intimidated about liquid micro tapering because they perceive it to be complex and difficult.

 

How is anyone harmed or "offended" when I point out the fundamental simplicity of a liquid taper?

 

In my (many) detailed explanations of how to do a DLMT, I frequently compare creating a benzo solution to stirring cream and sugar into a cup of coffee.  I think folks are more likely to be reassured than offended.  No one ever seemed to be offended by my analogy.

 

Tell this to all of the folks that report your inappropriate posts Builder. We have plenty of reports from vulnerable members. It may seem simple to you but when a person who is struggling comes on here and reads this BS they find it offensive and triggering.  Just because you help many folks on the forum it does not give you a "green light" to say anything you want to say and bully the vulnerable. Be respectful to your buddies and follow this rule or your posts will be moderated. This is your warning Builder.

 

 

Wow, 3rd threat this week.  Do personal threats violate the user rules?

 

My analogy:

 

Preparing a liquid benzo from tablets is about like adding cream and sugar to your coffee

 

Combine 1 tsp sugar, 2 tsp, cream, and 6 ozs coffee

 

vs

 

Combine 1mg benzo, 2ml solvent, and 8 ozs water

 

How can anyone be "offended" by that??

 

Folks come here every day with statements like "I don't know how to do a DLMT", ..."liquid is too complicated",... "I cant do the  math", etc...

 

I try to assure them is really NOT complicated, I give  detailed instructions,  prepare dosing schedules, show the calculations, teach them how to calculate and prepare their own plans, etc.

 

I'm an engineer, not a social worker.  I think my contributions here are about as valuable as anyone elses.  You obviously don't like my style, but you will rarely find any real problem with the validity of the info I share.

Let's analyze my  "offending" post.

 

The original post is a discussion about a particular aspect of a liquid taper (in which he acknowledges my contributions on this topic!  )

 

"  I had help from Bella, Jim Hawk and Builder and found it to be so simple"

 

Then he discusses his interest in doing a video on the subject.

 

My response actually consists of 3 parts:

 

1) I recognize his desire to make a helpful contribution:

 

"  I know your motivation is altruistic..."

 

(which you thoughtfully excluded in the highlighted portion of your quote  )

2) I ask a question:

 

"...do folks really need a video to learn how to combine 3 ingredients?"

3) and I make my analogy to show why a video might not be needed.

" It's about like adding cream and sugar to your coffee."

 

There is nothing offensive in any component of my short reply, and certainly nothing offensive in the totality of my reply.

I get it that you don't like my style, but that does NOT make my contributions inappropriate.

 

Let's analyze my  "offending" post.

 

The original post is a discussion about a particular aspect of a liquid taper (in which he acknowledges my contributions on this topic!  )

 

"  I had help from Bella, Jim Hawk and Builder and found it to be so simple"

 

Then he discusses his interest in doing a video on the subject.

 

My response actually consists of 3 parts:

 

1) I recognize his desire to make a helpful contribution:

 

"  I know your motivation is altruistic..."

 

(which you thoughtfully excluded in the highlighted portion of your quote  )

2) I ask a question:

 

"...do folks really need a video to learn how to combine 3 ingredients?"

3) and I make my analogy to show why a video might not be needed.

" It's about like adding cream and sugar to your coffee."

 

There is nothing offensive in any component of my short reply, and certainly nothing offensive in the totality of my reply.

I get it that you don't like my style, but that does NOT make my contributions inappropriate.

 

Builder,

 

Let's not 'analyze' your post on the forum. Certain issues were pointed out to you in terms of your wording and terseness. These issues were brought to our attention through reports submitted by members of the forum.  We encourage and welcome members to report anything that makes them uncomfortable. The team reviews the post or posts and determines what, if any, action will be taken. Our goal is for BB to be a safe oasis for people going through what is likely the most challenging process they have encountered in their lives. 

 

Once done, continuing debate and conflict on the open forum is not appropriate. Here is the proper way to discuss anything to do with moderation.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=108144.0

 

Move on now and let this thread return to the original focus and topic.

 

pianogirl

Wow, 3rd threat this week.  Do personal threats violate the user rules?

 

My analogy:

 

Preparing a liquid benzo from tablets is about like adding cream and sugar to your coffee

 

Combine 1 tsp sugar, 2 tsp, cream, and 6 ozs coffee

 

vs

 

Combine 1mg benzo, 2ml solvent, and 8 ozs water

 

How can anyone be "offended" by that??

 

Folks come here every day with statements like "I don't know how to do a DLMT", ..."liquid is too complicated",... "I cant do the  math", etc...

 

I try to assure them is really NOT complicated, I give  detailed instructions,  prepare dosing schedules, show the calculations, teach them how to calculate and prepare their own plans, etc.

 

I'm an engineer, not a social worker.  I think my contributions here are about as valuable as anyone elses.  You obviously don't like my style, but you will rarely find any real problem with the validity of the info I share.

 

I am deeply saddened, by you being reprimanded, dear builder 

Your contributions are invaluable here, and appreciated.

I am sure that there are many people who search for you, because they value your thoughts, and opinion about finding the correct taper plan, doing the math, and go on their way to recovery.

Sadly, even if there is an issue, that moderators think needs to be addressed, there are ways to approach, without attacking, without pulling rank, and without being rude and disrespectful.

I doubt that there has been an approach intended to say thank you for your contributions here, dear builder

People speak of you and Jim Hawk on other forums, and flock here to find you. And I have suggested this forum and specifically you and Jim, as competent sources of an educated and safe, benzo withdrawal approach.

That speaks volumes, that this forum is indeed fortunate that you are here, as your knowledge, and tireless care helps many.  :angel

Are any of these folks of rank capable of offering credible advice to any of us in need of help?

I have not seen it, and speaking for myself, I was injured by the incompetence of rank 

Praying that you will resume helping us who need it, and not abandon us, as that will be a cruel and unusual punishment, though not initiated by you.

 

May our Lord guide the ones in need of common sense and respectful approach, to remedy a wrong.

 

Love, Anoushka

 

 

Builder,

 

I too would like to see you come back to the titration area of this forum. You have helped me a lot by confirming that whole fat milk is a solvent. I’ve used the milk for a very long time, but since I recently “embarked” on these orally disintegrating tablets for microtapering, I just wasn’t sure that they would work the same as regular clonazepam tablets.

 

And you assured that they would. And so far, they have worked.

 

I do understand that you are so knowledgeable about all kinds of titration that new people do not comprehend what you tell them. And that there have been complaints about you being terse, abrupt, and/or impatient with question.

 

While this may be true, you have always been here, and I think if people ask you a question one at a time like I did, you will answer that question. And then people can go on to ask more questions, and before we realize it, there is a thread with very good questions and great answers.

 

But I often see people almost “demanding “ answers to all the questions they want to know in one post, and that is overwhelming to anyone who is trying to explain this titration process.

 

And perhaps the moderators and administrators will take what I’ve just said into account.

 

We all need to work together to make anything work out and that includes all BB members, and staff.

 

Folks, many of you have been on benzos for a very long time, so getting correct answers to your questions just requires patience to learn this titration process. Posting a question, and having the answer to that question come in one post gives you the opportunity to ask another question which will be answered.

 

And if the thread created takes a day or two, try not to panic; you will get your answer. After all, remember that many of you have been on these Benzo for quite awhile so a couple of days is basically a vert short amount of time.

 

Builder is highly accomplished, and he knows what he is talking about. It would be a huge loss to this entire forum if builder is not here to help us. I’m am absolutely sure of what I’ve just said.

 

 

Very nicely put, dear Intend🌺

I second that, and pray🙏 that things will work out,

as it is best for us all.

And please, lets not forget Jim Hawk, as he too, is a valuable asset to this forum.🌹

 

With warm appreciation to you, dear Intend💖

 

Anoushka

First time - shame on me. Second time - not going to happen. For the moderators who choose to jump all over the assets of this board; more power to you. I am done too. Unless there is a formal apology to them. No wait! Colin own the company - let him do it!

 

 

Builder ...i thank this site and builder in particular for helping me . I know I have to come off this drug ativan I have been taking for sleep for twenty years. I had no idea how I was going to do it and felt scared. I know doctors will just say cut back and quit ...no instructions or plan whatsoever.

Then I found BB and saw a post from builder where he worked out a  liquid micro taper for someone. I asked him to help me and right way there came the

detailed instructions and math (not my strength) for doing it. Im only starting down this road but have thanked builder privately many times. I also felt so

encouraged by a fellow human being who would take the time and interest to help me a complete stranger. I have tried to pass it on by helping a couple

of newcomers to the site. Builder you are a STAR!!

Your opinion Leslie J.

 

Everyone has one.

 

So in your opinion, we need no one to help with titration taper?

 

Great idea! NOT in my opinion.

Builder ...i thank this site and builder in particular for helping me . I know I have to come off this drug ativan I have been taking for sleep for twenty years. I had no idea how I was going to do it and felt scared. I know doctors will just say cut back and quit ...no instructions or plan whatsoever.

Then I found BB and saw a post from builder where he worked out a  liquid micro taper for someone. I asked him to help me and right way there came the

detailed instructions and math (not my strength) for doing it. Im only starting down this road but have thanked builder privately many times. I also felt so

encouraged by a fellow human being who would take the time and interest to help me a complete stranger. I have tried to pass it on by helping a couple

of newcomers to the site. Builder you are a STAR!!

 

fridaygirl,

 

I agree with you, and you’re a STAR too!

 

 

 

Perhaps the most useful and beneficial aspect of this entire forum is the applied science of the titration down (taper) from benzodiazepines. Builder & Jim have contributed more in that regard than any others I've witnessed.

 

best wishes

Perhaps the most useful and beneficial aspect of this entire forum is the applied science of the titration down (taper) from benzodiazepines. Builder & Jim have contributed more in that regard than any others I've witnessed.

 

best wishes

 

Fi,

 

I think so too.

Perhaps the most useful and beneficial aspect of this entire forum is the applied science of the titration down (taper) from benzodiazepines. Builder & Jim have contributed more in that regard than any others I've witnessed.

 

best wishes

 

Fi,

 

I think so too.

 

Most definitely!  Agreed!

Perhaps the most useful and beneficial aspect of this entire forum is the applied science of the titration down (taper) from benzodiazepines. Builder & Jim have contributed more in that regard than any others I've witnessed.

 

best wishes

 

Fi,

 

I think so too.

 

Most definitely!  Agreed!

 

I agree, too. Both Builder and Jim had done so much for people here and have helped people who would not have been able to taper at all by dry cutting because their brains and bodies are in an incredibly sensitive state.

 

I've done roughly 10% dry cuts from 12.5mg down to 2.5mg of valium, and it has been torture, and I'd had to wait up to 60 days after each cut in order to proceed. I found liquid titration very intimidating during this difficult state of withdrawal, but builder does an excellent job of explaining it.

 

People don't need to do liquid titration, but once a benzo user becomes a benzobuddy, things get exponentially complicated, and many times, the 5-10% cuts may need holds well beyond 2-4 weeks, and in my experience, they often needed 30 day holds, 60 day holds or even longer holds.

 

With builder's and jim's methods, people can choose to bypass these difficult dry cut & hold methods and have a much smoother and easier tapers.

Just to clarify. For someone who has a very strong technical background, I found myself horribly brain fogged to the point that I could not even comprehend DLMT at all. A family member helped me with the micro dry cuts as my hands were too shaky and unsteady and my blood pressure kept spiking because it was scaring me to make these cuts and make mistakes. These are benzodiazepines, not liquid Prozac after all. I also think I am one of those people who would have obsessed about the taper more had I done DLMT. So, DLMT was not for me, and it's not the only way, but I appreciate that people who need help with DLMT are getting that help on the forum. I really do.

Just to clarify. For someone who has a very strong technical background, I found myself horribly brain fogged to the point that I could not even comprehend DLMT at all. A family member helped me with the micro dry cuts as my hands were too shaky and unsteady and my blood pressure kept spiking because it was scaring me to make these cuts and make mistakes. These are benzodiazepines, not liquid Prozac after all. I also think I am one of those people who would have obsessed about the taper more had I done DLMT. So, DLMT was not for me, and it's not the only way, but I appreciate that people who need help with DLMT are getting that help on the forum. I really do.

 

LF,

 

I too could not do DLMT at all. I tried several times, but just could not handle it at all. And my CNS was probably in better shape than it is now. I’ve had to make 6 generic brand switches since I started tapering clonazepam.

 

I am not shaky or unsteady, but I certainly realize that this can happen to anyone. From what I’ve noticed, builder and Jim Hawk are willing to help people do what they need to do to get off any benzo. Just very helpful.

 

Thank you so much for posting here. You are very knowledgeable yourself, and I always respect your opinion.