The beginning of my journey from 10 to 0.

Hello!

 

I'm new here at BB. I hope this can develop into a thread of my own personal journey from my current state of dependency into my eventual goal of total freedom. And I hope you people have the time, love, care and energy to carefully read through everything and help me get a better life.

 

I am dependent on 9-10 mg of Alprazolam per day (see my » Introduction « for more details) to avoid getting too sick from withdrawal. Been using it for somewhere between 2-4 years. My memory isn't what it used to be, neither is my cognitive functions.

 

Anyway. I have experienced Cold Turkey withdrawal twice before, and it literally gave me most of the possible symptoms. It was real horrific experiences that I hope to never have to go through again.

 

I've been advised by other people earlier to switch to Clonazepam to lessen the interdose withdrawals I wake up with every morning and to a lesser extent during the whole day.

 

Is a switch a good idea to start with, before attempting any form of tapering? Assuming substitution tapering is the easiest path. Is it? I would like a solution which goes fast to prepare for each dose and is easy to understand and does not interfere too much with my daily life or waste too much time every day.

 

Is it a good idea to switch from Alprazolam 1 mg pills to Clonazepam 2 mg pills, to lessen the interdose withdrawal? Or should I go straight to Diazepam 5 mg pills? Feels like I'd have to spend all days eating pills if the latter, since my understanding is that Clonazepam is much stronger than Diazepam.

 

If it is a good idea, how should I switch over from Alprazolam to Clonazepam? Should I replace one pill at a time with the equalient dose of Clonazepam during a set interval, or can one simply jump straight from eating 9 or 10 pills (1 mg) per day of Alprazolam to switching to the equalient dose of Clonazepam (equalient to 9-10 mg Alprazolam) the next day, hence making the switch "all at once"? Which method would cause the least stress on my brain? I wish to do this whole process in a way that will be as smooth and healthy for the brain as possible. That's my main priority. I'm assuming the answer is to switch over one pill at a time, but I'd love to hear your thoughts before I do any changes regarding medication. Switching all at once sounds scary to me, but on the other hand I have never used any other benzodiazepine other than Alprazolam.

 

My second question is easier and shorter. If Clonazepam would be recommended to prevent interdose withdrawal, how much does 9-10 mg of Alprazolam per day equal to in Clonazepam? How should I make this gradual, or instant, switch to Clonazepam?

 

Thanks for your time. 

 

 

Hello!

 

I'm new here at BB. I hope this can develop into a thread of my own personal journey from my current state of dependency into my eventual goal of total freedom. And I hope you people have the time, love, care and energy to carefully read through everything and help me get a better life.

 

I am dependent on 9-10 mg of Alprazolam per day (see my » Introduction « for more details) to avoid getting too sick from withdrawal. Been using it for somewhere between 2-4 years. My memory isn't what it used to be, neither is my cognitive functions.

 

Anyway. I have experienced Cold Turkey withdrawal twice before, and it literally gave me most of the possible symptoms. It was real horrific experiences that I hope to never have to go through again.

 

I've been advised by other people earlier to switch to Clonazepam to lessen the interdose withdrawals I wake up with every morning and to a lesser extent during the whole day.

 

Is a switch a good idea to start with, before attempting any form of tapering? Assuming substitution tapering is the easiest path. Is it? I would like a solution which goes fast to prepare for each dose and is easy to understand and does not interfere too much with my daily life or waste too much time every day.

 

Is it a good idea to switch from Alprazolam 1 mg pills to Clonazepam 2 mg pills, to lessen the interdose withdrawal? Or should I go straight to Diazepam 5 mg pills? Feels like I'd have to spend all days eating pills if the latter, since my understanding is that Clonazepam is much stronger than Diazepam.

 

If it is a good idea, how should I switch over from Alprazolam to Clonazepam? Should I replace one pill at a time with the equalient dose of Clonazepam during a set interval, or can one simply jump straight from eating 9 or 10 pills (1 mg) per day of Alprazolam to switching to the equalient dose of Clonazepam (equalient to 9-10 mg Alprazolam) the next day, hence making the switch "all at once"? Which method would cause the least stress on my brain? I wish to do this whole process in a way that will be as smooth and healthy for the brain as possible. That's my main priority. I'm assuming the answer is to switch over one pill at a time, but I'd love to hear your thoughts before I do any changes regarding medication. Switching all at once sounds scary to me, but on the other hand I have never used any other benzodiazepine other than Alprazolam.

 

My second question is easier and shorter. If Clonazepam would be recommended to prevent interdose withdrawal, how much does 9-10 mg of Alprazolam per day equal to in Clonazepam? How should I make this gradual, or instant, switch to Clonazepam?

 

Thanks for your time. 

 

 

 

Hello handlo-

 

Welcome! I read your intro. CT can be horrific experience. You should not go through that horror if you plan a reasonable, symptom based taper.

 

Many people switch to a longer acting benzo to help alleviate the inter dose withdrawals. Clonazapam or Valium are used the most. A gradual crossover is recommended. I would start with a substitution plan dry cutting because of the high dose you are on. Then once down in dosage switch over to a titration plan combining liquid with tablets with the reduction being the liquid portion.

 

9-10mg of Alprazolam equals 9-10mg Clonazapam. They are equivalent.

Equivalency Tables

 

Here is a program where you can Create Your Own Taper Plan by Jim Hawk. It may be helpful if you check out the Help function prior to using the program.

 

If you have any more questions just ask! We are here for you!

Thanks for your reply!

 

Regarding the CTs, I didn't have money. I've read the Titration Help as well as fiddled around with the Taper Plan generator. It seems to only accept Diazepam as a substitution and not Clonazepam. Is there any similar but for Clonazepam? There are some parts of the Titration Help I did not fully understand but once I have bought the necessary tools listed on the Help-page so I have them in my hands it may be easier to understand, otherwise I'll return with questions regarding Water Titration.

 

Before tapering using Clonazepam Titration I'd like my brain to get used to Clonazepam as my substitution for Alprazolam. Any suggestions on how fast this should be done? Can I for example switch the first dose of 1 mg Alprazolam (out of 10/day) to 1 mg Clonazepam, wait one week for the brain to adjust, then continue on by switching the second dose to 1 mg Clonazepam as well, wait one week, etc? Or should I do it faster, slower or change interval? What's healthiest for my brain is my priority.

 

I assume even Diazepam 5 mg with a divider line making it possible to get approximately 2.5 mg, and trying a taper using Diazepam pills simply swallowed would be too bad for my brain or give me a difficult tapering time? Otherwise that sounds much easier than Water Titration. Keep in mind I'm new at this. 

 

 

I am new to BB, but wouldn’t your crossover questions be best answered by following the Dr Aston protocol? She ran a Benzo withdrawal clinic for 12 years and apprantantly had success with her protocol. I know it is all available on this website. I am just starting it now. Do I have false hope in the Ashton protocol? I certainly hope not.

Hi Handlo 

 

I'm just wondering if you are currently feeling any inter-dose symptoms with your 9, 10 mg/day of Alprazolam? Knowing that the plasma elimination half-life of Alprazolam is rather fast (~10 hours), you should have felt during the day certain withdrawal symptoms nowadays.

 

My idea would be to split that dose to 2 x 5 mg each. Take them every 8-10 hours during the day and leaving more interval during the night when your body rests and you will likely feel less symptoms if any. Then instead of introducing a new beast in your organism which is the powerful Clonazepam, whose effects on you are still unknown, you can perhaps try to micro taper the 2 doses altogether to minimize inter-dose withdrawal.

 

All the best!

Dr.Ashton has a protocol for a smooth transition from any of the common Benson to valium, using a gradual reduction.  It is many pages long, but worth finding your current drug and the transition to valium (diazepam).  It was smooth for me to go from 4mg ativan  to the equivalent valium, 15 mg.  I am now 50% done with my taper, and using 3 mg valium liquid solution am and 4 mg solution pm.  I am fatigued and have little motivation, but nothing like my accidental cold turkey on a trip out of state, and two experiences with too rapid of a taper.  Valium (diazepam) also comes in 2 mg tablets, which are easier to cut and use for taper.  When I used 5 mg tablets, the smallest I could cut them was 1.35 mg, and this was too much of a drop for me.  Started to loose it had at 7 mg and had to reinstate to 10mg and hold for 2 months.  But waste of time.  My generic diazepam is only $3 a bottle here in the US, and I see the shrink once every 3 months with a $40 copay.  Cold turkey is HORRIBLE , and it would be better to borrow the money for prescriptions than do that.  People can seizure and end up never the same!  Good luck !

Hello and thanks for all help. Sorry for getting back so late.

 

I feel a bit embarrassed to say that I have yet to start my water titration. I have however crossed over to Clonazepam successfully during 1 month long ago now and been on it since with no problems. 

 

Other problems in life has simply got in the way of starting the water titration. Also my lack of knowledge.

 

What I feel decided on is to start now, ASAP. What I currently have are 1 ml syringes and one 100 ml measuring cylinder. I'm unsure exactly what more I should get?

 

I'm planning on preparing a new dose every day. Going that path. May as well embed it as a daily routine. Pills combined with 1 liquid pill per day. That should work right?

 

Also I wonder if I should draw up the liquid into the syringe before or after adding water? If after, I probably need 10 ml syringes as well. And sure I can wait a few days extra if I need 10 mg syringes as well. What would you guys recommend?

 

I also have a quick side-question. Can BZ weaken your bones? I have noticed that I easily damage my bones and I suspect Clonazepam to be the reason of one of the reasons.

 

Another question. When using the suggested water titration site it tells me my titration will take

Total 1'033 days or 2 years 9 months 27 days

Is this really true? I have no idea how I would be able to manage to keep motivation to do this for that long period. Or did I set some parameters wrong? My parameters are:

 

Clonazepam 2 mg

Quit dose: 0,025 mg

Number of tablets to dissolve: 1

Total volume of liquid: 50 ml (0,04 concentration)

5% / 10 days

First dose first

 

However, if I change my parameters from 50 ml to 4 ml (2 mg pills and 4 ml vodka 40%) and ignore the water added after the alcohol has done it's magic into the calculation, it changes to only 199 days. Would that be enough or do I need to include the water and get a result of over 1000 days to be sure?

 

What is the correct thing to do? I think I've been on alprazolam -> clonazepam since 2014. 10 mg for maybe the last 2 years and tolerance withdrawal seem to have stopped, I haven't felt a physical need to increase the dose for long.

 

Appreciate all your help!  You people are great!

I was on 1 mg of Xanax taking .25mg four times a day. I crossed over to klonopin by exchanging one pill every week for 4 weeks. At that point I started my taper. That was at the end of December and currently I'm at .5mg per day, taken in the morning and night of.25mg, which is a 50% reduction from where I was in December.

The math for me suggests at a 15% per month reduction, I will finish sometime in the neighborhood of May of next year. 2020. I may push for a 20% of the current dose a month reduction as I haven't felt a single symptom during my withdrawal yet.  I adjust these daily reductions about every week to compensate for the reduction in total daily dose. The math is just done on a sheet of paper that I keep in a file to show my daily log. There is a slight stair step to this but they are minimal. The reduction is consistently downward and really is sufficient for a smooth taper for myself.

Klonopin has a longer half-life so it really levels things out so you don't have the ups and downs during the day. I am glad I switched over to this as it's made this taper really easy. I am prescribed my dosages in .125 mg tablets. I am filing one of these doses out of my daily intake (Daily Shaving Micro Tapering) to reduce by a small amount every day using gram scale (Gemini 20).

Since the Klonopin tablets I'm taking don't have a score line in them, the medicine in the pill is less evenly distributed. This is why I only reduce the total daily dose out of one tablet. Relative to all the other tablets even if there is some variance within that pill it will be a minimal effect to the total daily dose and I will still systematically be on a downward trend, it doesn't have to be perfect (keep in mind variance between each of these pills out of the bottle is as much as 10% anyway).

When I get to .25mm in my daily dose, I will switch over to liquid DLMT. The reason for this is that I will only have two pills and by the fact that these pills have a greater varience in even distribution will probably start to have a negative effect on my taper, because of how much one pill is proportionately to the daily dose of pills.

Yes, 1mg of Xanex is equal to 1mg of Klonopin.

Good Luck!