Librium taper

I see that dr ashton has a librium taper schedule.  i could start from 75mgs, which would be 30mgs valium (where i started), which would put me at  or drop down to 50mgs, and put me back closer to my original valium dose of 16mgs.

Suggestions?

Brian

Just looking for some help here on a taper plan.

Did the 75mgs yesterday, and now i'm awake and writing to you at 1:30 am lol (woken up by a lovely dream of people in high school, which is a good sign that my memory is coming back, on valium, i was having dreams about people in high school every night).  Sure, i can hold on to 75mgs, but basically feel like to hell with it and going to 50mgs, if not 45mgs.

i was down to 16mgs diazepam,, dosing 3-3-10 before re-instating for 3 days, then detoxing, then 6 days of 200mgs librium 50mgs 4 times a day.  100mgs (25mgs 4x per day) and yesterday was 75mgs (25mgs 3x per day)

I think that with my fast metabolism, that I'm still better served w/ 3 doses, although ashton even recommends eventually going to 2 doses w/ valium/and or librium, but that's all individualized.

I would like to get to 50mgs soon (or even 45mgs) (20mgs valium equivalent), if not immediately.  I went through 4 months of pure hell (as you know) of getting from 30mgs to 16mgs of valium, and i'll be damned if that is going to die in vein and lost on my watch.

If i was doing 3-3-10 valium, is it feasible to do say 10-10-25 librium soon if not right away?

Regards,

Brian

Last night was first night on 75mgs librium, worst night in a long time.  Do I need to stabilize at this dose? or can I move down to 50mgs soon?

It would be really hard for me to swallow that i would have to start at 75mgs librium, seeing that would be the same dose that i started on my valium taper30mgs,,and went through 5 months of hell to get to 16mgs, and restarting at 30mgs but in much worse shape this time around.

I have burnt out valium right?  Not a good idea to change benzos again.  I was on it for the 6 months before making this switch.

Feeling very sad and discouraged

Thanks for the advice.

Hi Brian,

It sounds like you've decided to taper from the Librium, just be sure to follow the plan Dr Ashton outlines.  I'm posting it here for your reference.  Stick to the plan you choose, and push forward.  You can do this, you've done it before so you can again. 

Pam

Schedule 11. Withdrawal from chlordiazepoxide (Librium) 25mg

three times daily (75mg). (25mg chlordiazepoxide

is approximately equivalent to 10mg diazepam)

  Morning Midday Evening/Night

Starting dosage chlordiazepoxide 25mg chlordiazepoxide 25mg chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 1

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 25mg chlordiazepoxide 20mg chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 2

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 20mg chlordiazepoxide 20mg chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 3

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 20mg chlordiazepoxide 20mg chlordiazepoxide 20mg

Stage 4

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 25mg chlordiazepoxide 5mg chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 5

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 25mg Stop chlordiazepoxide chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 6

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 20mg -- chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 7

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 20mg -- chlordiazepoxide 20mg

Stage 8

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 15mg -- chlordiazepoxide 20mg

Stage 9

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 15mg -- chlordiazepoxide 15mg

Stage 10

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 10mg -- chlordiazepoxide 15mg

Stage 11

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 10mg -- chlordiazepoxide 10mg

Stage 12

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 5mg -- chlordiazepoxide 10mg

Stage 13

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 5mg -- chlordiazepoxide 5mg

Stage 14

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide

2.5mg (½ tablet) -- chlordiazepoxide 5mg

Stage 15

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide

2.5mg (½ tablet) -- chlordiazepoxide

2.5mg (½ tablet)

Stage 16

(1-2 weeks) Stop chlordiazepoxide -- chlordiazepoxide

2.5mg (½ tablet)

Stage 17 -- -- Stop chlordiazepoxide

Schedule 11 Notes:

Chlordiazepoxide is long-acting so there is no need to take it more frequently than twice a day (hence Stages 4 and 5).

Because chlordiazepoxide is long-acting, there is no need for diazepam substitution.

If you are taking chlordiazepoxide capsules, change to tablets which can be halved for stages 14 onwards.

Hi Brian,

 

It sounds like you've decided to taper from the Librium, just be sure to follow the plan Dr Ashton outlines.  I'm posting it here for your reference.  Stick to the plan you choose, and push forward.  You can do this, you've done it before so you can again.   

 

Pam

Schedule 11. Withdrawal from chlordiazepoxide (Librium) 25mg

three times daily (75mg). (25mg chlordiazepoxide

is approximately equivalent to 10mg diazepam)

 

  Morning Midday Evening/Night

Starting dosage chlordiazepoxide 25mg chlordiazepoxide 25mg chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 1

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 25mg chlordiazepoxide 20mg chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 2

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 20mg chlordiazepoxide 20mg chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 3

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 20mg chlordiazepoxide 20mg chlordiazepoxide 20mg

Stage 4

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 25mg chlordiazepoxide 5mg chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 5

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 25mg Stop chlordiazepoxide chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 6

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 20mg -- chlordiazepoxide 25mg

Stage 7

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 20mg -- chlordiazepoxide 20mg

Stage 8

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 15mg -- chlordiazepoxide 20mg

Stage 9

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 15mg -- chlordiazepoxide 15mg

Stage 10

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 10mg -- chlordiazepoxide 15mg

Stage 11

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 10mg -- chlordiazepoxide 10mg

Stage 12

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 5mg -- chlordiazepoxide 10mg

Stage 13

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide 5mg -- chlordiazepoxide 5mg

Stage 14

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide

2.5mg (½ tablet) -- chlordiazepoxide 5mg

Stage 15

(1-2 weeks) chlordiazepoxide

2.5mg (½ tablet) -- chlordiazepoxide

2.5mg (½ tablet)

Stage 16

(1-2 weeks) Stop chlordiazepoxide -- chlordiazepoxide

2.5mg (½ tablet)

Stage 17 -- -- Stop chlordiazepoxide

 

Schedule 11 Notes:

 

 

Chlordiazepoxide is long-acting so there is no need to take it more frequently than twice a day (hence Stages 4 and 5).

 

Because chlordiazepoxide is long-acting, there is no need for diazepam substitution.

 

If you are taking chlordiazepoxide capsules, change to tablets which can be halved for stages 14 onwards.

Well I've been on the librium for 3 weeks, well i had the 1 week detox.  I would imagine that going back to valium at this point would be dumb.

Feel horrific and want to cry.  To think of what i already went through, and would maybe have to start at the same starting point, but i am in much worse condition this time around, i don't know if i could make it, or if i should just rapid taper from here.

Love,

Brian

 

 

Well I've been on the librium for 3 weeks

 

According to what you have told us already, you've only been on librium about a week since your detox. Before your detox, I believe you had only been on librium for 3 days?

 

 

Well I've been on the librium for 3 weeks

 

 

According to what you have told us already, you've only been on librium about a week since your detox. Before your detox, I believe you had only been on librium for 3 days?

 

Yes, i was on librium 3 days before detox, and i've been on it since sept 1 after.  6 days on 200mgs, 1 day 100mgs, today is day 2 of 75mgs.  You know i have a very fast metabolism for meds and benzos. I  was taking 3 doses of valium, and initially 4 doses of librium.  The past 2 days of librium, i've only been taking 3 doses. I think that 4 is probably still more appropriate.

honestly, i just came out of detox, and dropped from 200mgs to 75mgs (80mgs to 30mgs valium) in 2 days, makes me feel like im losing my crap.  why not just ride it out?  Same with my middle east experience, went from 80 to 30 in one day, then taken off in 1 week. i'll  just continue to feel like im losing it, but maybe just getting it over with quicker as it seemed then.  had i just stuck the ct out, it might be different.

i understand slow and steady if you start out at a comfortable point and out of tolerance, i get that, it makes sense.  Initially yes, the 200mgs got me out of tolerance, i  could go out and do things, and eat again.  But it still wasn't a quality of life, and i knew that coming off 80mgs would take forever, and that my 16mgs taper was wiped off the board.

I don't think there will be any windows or any stabilization.  it seems like all stability is lost, and i might just have to ride out madness. 

 

 

Well I've been on the librium for 3 weeks

 

 

According to what you have told us already, you've only been on librium about a week since your detox. Before your detox, I believe you had only been on librium for 3 days?

 

 

Yes, i was on librium 3 days before detox, and i've been on it since sept 1 after.  6 days on 200mgs, 1 day 100mgs, today is day 2 of 75mgs.  You know i have a very fast metabolism for meds and benzos. I  was taking 3 doses of valium, and initially 4 doses of librium.  The past 2 days of librium, i've only been taking 3 doses. I think that 4 is probably still more appropriate.

 

honestly, i just came out of detox, and dropped from 200mgs to 75mgs (80mgs to 30mgs valium) in 2 days, makes me feel like im losing my crap.  why not just ride it out?  Same with my middle east experience, went from 80 to 30 in one day, then taken off in 1 week. i'll  just continue to feel like im losing it, but maybe just getting it over with quicker as it seemed then.  had i just stuck the ct out, it might be different.

 

i understand slow and steady if you start out at a comfortable point and out of tolerance, i get that, it makes sense.  Initially yes, the 200mgs got me out of tolerance, i  could go out and do things, and eat again.  But it still wasn't a quality of life, and i knew that coming off 80mgs would take forever, and that my 16mgs taper was wiped off the board.

 

I don't think there will be any windows or any stabilization.  it seems like all stability is lost, and i might just have to ride out madness. 

Hi Brian,

Living in indecision in hard on you, questioning everything over and over brings about more stress.  You need to decide how you're going to proceed and stick with it.  Once you do that we'll help and support you all we can, but we will not make that decision for you.

You've been given some very sound advice, this is up to you now, do what you believe in your head and heart is right for you.  We'll be here for you when you make your decision to help you on your journey.

Pam

Thanks Pam.

i think the dramatic toll that going from 16mgs to 80mgs to detox, to 200ms librium to 75 is taking a serious serious toll on my brain and body, confusing the hell out of it.

I'm making some life threatening decisions when im in no position to do so.

I was just getting a little delirious and confused, felt on acid, space cadet, which was normal when i was on 16mgs valium, then just had a major panic attack.  i thought i was seizing or dying.

If you guys are agreeance w/ me, I think that it is medically safest for me to STABILIZE on 1 dose for at least a week before making any changes.

That could be 75mgs which today is day 2 on, which would kill me to be on 30mgs valium again, but i think my brian/body needs something consistant right now.  but dropping from 200mgs to 100mgs, then to 75mgs yesterday, i was awake at 130am.

Then i was crawling  out of my skin this morning felt like i was losing it, then took a 2pm dose, back to feeling high, on acid, delirious like i used to, but then a major panic attack.

Can my brain/body readjust to this low of dose as it did on valium? my sleep began to improve as my valium dose was decreasing? or is the damage done from the detox, and it might not get any better.

I know that dr ashton has it as 3 times a day, and says it doesn't need to be more than 2, but she says the same as valium, and i needed 3 doses of valium because of my interdose wd.

I think that maybe i should spread out my librium over 4 doses.

Tell me if this schedule looks good?

Stay at 75mgs for a week. I think i can only spread them out over 3 doses, cause i have 25mg pills, although i would like 4 doses.

Could someone tell me how much 5mgs of librium is compared to valium?

That or would it be better to follow ashtons schedule for librium?  I needed 3 dose though i felt, and hers called for 2, down to 1.

Then

70 mg - dose 1 - 2O mg  dose 2 - 15 mg  dose 3 - 15 mg  dose 4 - 20 mg

65 mg - dose 1 - 2O mg  dose 2 - 15 mg  dose 3 - 15 mg  dose 4 - 15 mg

60 mg - dose 1 - 15 mg  dose 2 - 15 mg  dose 3 - 15 mg  dose 4 - 15 mg

55 mg - dose 1 - 15 mg  dose 2 - 15 mg  dose 3 - 10 mg  dose 4 - 15 mg

50 mg - dose 1 - 15 mg  dose 2 - 10 mg  dose 3 - 10 mg  dose 4 - 15 mg

45 mg - dose 1 - 15 mg  dose 2 - 10 mg  dose 3 - 10 mg  dose 4 - 10 mg

40 mg - dose 1 - 10 mg  dose 2 - 10 mg  dose 3 - 10 mg  dose 3 - 10 mg

As I said before, I think going to 100mg first would be better.

But yes, this schedule looks fine,  but you will want to slow it down a little when you get down to about 50mg, IMO. 

5mg librium is aprox. equiv to 2mg valium according to most sources for the purposes of tapering.

Two times a day dosing is plenty with valium or librium. The half life is a minumum of 36 hours and a maximum of 200 hours. Dosing every twelve hours is sufficient.

Actually looks like librium is 5-30 hours, but long metabolites.

I am so uncomfortable and in serious distress, and have this obsessional habit that will not stop.

Love,

Brian

Such a bad backlash from the detox.  When i did cut from 200mgs to 100mgs, i slept very well on 100mgs.  But after 75mgs the past 2 days,, i was awake at 130am.

Can i hold on and will my body adjust to 75?  I'm not sure that any amount would take me out of what im going through.  Even 200mgs after the detox didn't really do it for me, like it had worked before i went in, although it got me out and doing many things.  what was done was done, physically.

Actually looks like librium is 5-30 hours, but long metabolites.

 

I am so uncomfortable and in serious distress, and have this obsessional habit that will not stop.

 

Love,

 

Brian

Yes, valium alone also has a shorter half life, but also has long life active metabolites. This is what gives both of these medications an actual 36 to 200 hour half life. http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

Even at 3 doses, it seems that i'm still getting some interdose wd, 4 seems more appropriate.

Could you explain to me in your rationale for 100mgs?  I think you might be right, but i'm afraid that going up won't provide me any more relief, and that it will set me back quite some time.

Regards,

Brian

Even at 3 doses, it seems that i'm still getting some interdose wd, 4 seems more appropriate.

Could you explain to me in your rationale for 100mgs?  I think you might be right, but i'm afraid that going up won't provide me any more relief, and that it will set me back quite some time.

 

Regards,

 

Brian

You wanted a plan, something solid to work with. That seemed like a reasonable amount for you to drop to at the time. That's my only rationale. You need to do what you feel is best for you now, Brian. I honestly don't know what else I can do for you.

Take care.

I was doing so  god damn well.  now i'm horrific.

how long would i need to stay at 100mgs for before decreasing?

Brian

I was doing so  god damn well.  now i'm horrific.

 

how long would i need to stay at 100mgs for before decreasing?

 

Brian

You can try to stabilize there for about a week before tapering.

Theresa, I was doing so well.  And it's all lost now.  I am getting bad interdose wd right now at 75mgs.  Do you think that 100mgs might help?

What if i go up, and it doesn't help and it sets me back further?

Regards,

Brian

Theresa, I was doing so well.  And it's all lost now.  I am getting bad interdose wd right now at 75mgs.  Do you think that 100mgs might help?

 

What if i go up, and it doesn't help and it sets me back further?

 

Regards,

 

Brian

I don't think it's interdosal wd, Lithium has quite a long half life about the same as Valium. I thought that Eljay thought you should stick with 100mgs of Librium?? I don't know all that she has told you. Maybe taking 50mg every 12 hours and see how that goes?

Hi Brian,

This discussion has been going on for about 4-5 days (here & here). When a large cut was first suggested, you had been taking Librium for just a couple of days. It was made quite clear that an immediate large cut from 200mg per day might be possible because of Librium's long half life, and because you had been taking it for just two days (it takes time for Librium to build up in your system). We can only discuss options and ideas. I have told you to see your doctor. It is pointless asking us to tell you what you should do - we will not do this. Only you can decide what's best for you (in consultation with your doctor), as your experience will will be unique to you.

Brian, we are not a medical website, we are benzodiazepine withdrawal support group. We can only help those that can help themselves. You should go and see your doctor.

Take care,

Colin.

Every literature that i can read says, The half life of Librium is 5 - 30 hours, but has long active metabolites. while the half-life of diazepam is 20-100 hours.

When i took valium, i still got interdose wd w/ 3 doses.

I feel the interdose wd w/ librium after about 4-6 hours.

Brian

Every literature that i can read says, The half life of Librium is 5 - 30 hours, but has long active metabolites. while the half-life of diazepam is 20-100 hours.

 

When i took valium, i still got interdose wd w/ 3 doses.

 

I feel the interdose wd w/ librium after about 4-6 hours.

 

 

Brian

Then take it every 4 to 6 hours, if that helps you stabilize. That would be 25mgs taken 4X/day, every 6 hours.

Hi Brian,

 

This discussion has been going on for about 4-5 days (here & here. When a large cut was first suggested, you had been taking Librium for just a couple of days. It was made quite clear that an immediate large cut from 200mg per day might be possible because of Librium's long half life, and because you had been taking it for just two days (it takes time for Librium to build up in your system). We can only discuss options and ideas. I have told you to see your doctor. It is pointless asking us to tell what you should do - we will not do this. Only you can decide what's best for you (in consultation with your doctor), as your experience will will be unique to you.

 

Brian, we are not a medical website, we are benzodiazepine withdrawal support group. We can only help those that can help themselves. You should go and see your doctor.

 

Take care,

 

Colin.

Thanks Colin.  I was on the librium for 6 days at 200mgs before the large cut.  Just that the interdose wd gets so bad after about 5 hours, that like my testicles go up in my stomach lol.

regards,

Brian

Every literature that i can read says, The half life of Librium is 5 - 30 hours, but has long active metabolites. while the half-life of diazepam is 20-100 hours.

 

When i took valium, i still got interdose wd w/ 3 doses.

 

I feel the interdose wd w/ librium after about 4-6 hours.

 

 

Brian

 

 

Then take it every 4 to 6 hours, if that helps you stabilize. That would be 25mgs taken 4X/day, every 6 hours.

Thank you Theresa. I think you're right.  i guess there is no point in looking back, and what i've lost.  I have plenty of time, and shouldn't freak out about it.

I am in severe and actute wd.  I took 75mgs the past few night.  My legs start thrashing around after about 4 hours craving the drug. Last night i was up at 130am, and tonight at 1230 am.  I would imagine that i would have to chase the dose very high to get out of this.  Is this going to be something that i will have to ride out and endure?

Regards,

Brian