Medically induced coma to detox??

OK, I'm a firm believer in the Ashton approach to tapering, and we've gone about 1/2 way using that approach, but I thought I'd run this by the group:  My wife's been on diazepam for 15+ years or so.  Currently at 19 mg/day and has been at this level for 2+ years.  Has been as high as 42mg/day.  All of the benzo treatment has been to manage muscle spasms and pain from an autoimmune type condition.  She has chronic health problems, but we're thinking that diazepam is simply contributing to those problems.  Her doctor yesterday alluded to some program in Arizona that does a medical detox, putting you into a coma with Propofol.  I assume they would apply Flumazenil during the procedure.  I remember 6 years ago when we first realized that benzos could be an issue contributing to her overall health problems, and the rapid detox program we talked to said they'd stopped doing it for benzo addiction because of "complications". Has anyone gone through the medically induced coma approach to detox and can comment?  It sounds risky, but perhaps Flumazenil would be helpful in "resetting" the GABA receptors as alleged by some. 

It does sound risky cause healing can take weeks, months or years depending on the person. How long are they considering putting her in a coma for?

<<How long are they considering putting her in a coma for?>> 

 

You know, I'm not sure.  Our doctor didn't seem to know a lot about the program, he just mentioned that a couple of his patients were going through it. 

 

I just spoke to one group over the phone that does an 8-day out-patient procedure using Flumazenil and "other" medications.  You visit the facility each day for an iv of Flumazenil and any symptom relief meds, and then back to the hotel.  She said that the process was safe and hasn't had any fatalities.  The person I spoke to had never heard of the medically induced coma approach, but said that other rapid-detox treatments for benzos had caused fatalities.  I'll have to do some more research on this coma thing to see if it's for real.  btw, the rep from the facility said they'd had an 80% success rate, which I take to mean that 80% of their patients completed the treatment, but because she said they didn't have much follow up data, I presume they have no idea whether the treatment actually helped people avoid horrible withdrawal symptoms.

 

To make matters even more complicated, we recently discovered that my wife has various genetic markers for drug metabolism inefficiencies.  This explains why opiates have no noticeable effect on her at all, especially pain relief.  But, genetic variations in general could explain why some people experience severe benzo withdrawals while others are hardly affected at all.  This raises the question as to how something like Flumazenil would impact my wife.  I wonder if there are genetic markers linked to benzodiazepine dependence and withdrawal.

It sounds like shes tapering slowly but successfully. Why risk her health by a rapid detox of any sort? Going into a coma of ANY kind is dangerous. And rapid detoxes aren't safe, either. Im sure both of you want to get this over and done, but tapering is always going to be safer. And yes, Im sure you're right, that Valium has contributed to your wife's poor health. I am living proof of this. My own health improved vastly once I was off benzos.

eastcoast

OK, I'm a firm believer in the Ashton approach to tapering, and we've gone about 1/2 way using that approach, but I thought I'd run this by the group:  My wife's been on diazepam for 15+ years or so.  Currently at 19 mg/day and has been at this level for 2+ years.  Has been as high as 42mg/day.  All of the benzo treatment has been to manage muscle spasms and pain from an autoimmune type condition.  She has chronic health problems, but we're thinking that diazepam is simply contributing to those problems.  Her doctor yesterday alluded to some program in Arizona that does a medical detox, putting you into a coma with Propofol.  I assume they would apply Flumazenil during the procedure.  I remember 6 years ago when we first realized that benzos could be an issue contributing to her overall health problems, and the rapid detox program we talked to said they'd stopped doing it for benzo addiction because of "complications". Has anyone gone through the medically induced coma approach to detox and can comment?  It sounds risky, but perhaps Flumazenil would be helpful in "resetting" the GABA receptors as alleged by some.

 

there is nothing that can reset the gabba receptors only time can heal those. I have never heard of a medically induced coma to detox from benzodiazepines.  It sounds barbaric.  Personally I think detox centers are a horrible place to withdraw from benzodiazepines.  I entered one seven months ago. My my Ativan was stopped the moment I walked through their door. I was kept for for 72hours and then released. The next month was the most horrific month of my life. The mental torment was excruciating.  It takes weeks if not months to heal. Your wife has been on benzodiazepines for many years. She needs to make sure she gets off of them with a careful taper. In my opinion she should contine with the Ashton method.

Yea, I wouldn't have brought it up, except her doc had just mentioned that some patients were doing it.  I can't wait to hear what the outcome will be.  My wife hasn't tapered in 2 years, but I'm pretty sure she's experiencing withdrawal symptoms continuously.  That's what we need to sort out: what symptoms are disease, what are benzo induced? Tapering from 19mg can be a slow process, and she'll be feeling worse during that time as a result, no doubt.  But, she may simply have no choice.  So, I was just looking at whether anyone had tried this coma thing (and survived). 

@[be...]

 

Thanks for your opinions of caution.  We're in no rush to jump into something dangerous, but I was curious if anyone had experienced the coma approach described.  I'm beginning to think the doc simply had the wrong idea.

sqrude, I'm so sorry your wife is suffering.  You're a great supporter to check something like this out.  As GMIT said, the aftermath of a rapid detox can take many months, if not years, until the body stops having symptoms.  I can't see how this would be helpful because a person can't be kept in a coma for this length of time. 

 

The people doing the Flumazenil detox mentioned no fatalities, you said.  But I do know of one that occurred after a Flumazenil detox was completed, after the person went back home.  The person was promised they could be detoxed using Flumazenil and that they would not suffer a severe acute withdrawal.  This wasn't the case and the individual was suffering so severely after the detox, they took their life.  Many of these places don't do long-term follow up with their patients to gauge how successful the treatment was.  In short, I personally do not trust these places and their empty promises, especially in the US.

 

Also, if places describe Flumazenil as an "injection", I would be even more wary.  The Australian doctor who is the most foremost authority on this precedure, (Dr Jon Curry), utilizes infusions rather than injections. 

 

Quite frankly, I believe the people who respond positively to this kind of withdrawal are 'early healers' and they would have healed the same way if they had cold turkeyed with an anti seizure adjunct.  Just my personal opinion because I do believe there is a strong genetic component to this.

 

I know of no genetic markers that have been discovered / discussed on the board with regard to Benzo dependence and withdrawal.  It seems like I read of a lady who had some genetic testing completed who said the test results indicated she should have never been prescribed a benzo, but she did not discuss the implications of withdrawal/dependency, just that the medicine would not work well for her due to her genetic makeup.

 

As far as your wifes body pain, this was my most troubling symptom after long term benzo use.  A lot of diagnoses were tossed around by doctors to me, but none of the diagnoses were able to be diagnosed by empirical testing, so I managed to keep myself undiagnosed.  As it turns out the suspected Fybromyalgia and Chronic Fatique-like and etc., symptoms I was suffering for years, turned out to be due to Xanax tolerance. I'm doing great now in that department, now that I no longer take Xanax. Even though this may not be the case for your wife if she was diagnosed pre-benzo, I firmly believe benzos can aggravate the nervous system to the extent that they cause or worsen chronic pain.

 

I'd probably try get her tapering again if she was agreeable with this.  I so hope she feels better.

 

 

 

 

People who go through this rapid detox come out of there on much more awful drugs. They get an antipyschotic, an anti seizure drug, an antidepressant and most likely gabapentin. So, what the detox place does is change your deck chairs on the titanic to a worse seat closer to the water. The person is off the benzos but is loaded with far more toxic poisons that can do worse damage to the person than benzos. From anyone who I have heard of or read about who had gone through this brutal detox, this is what happens to them, they come out on more toxic drugs.

Hi,

 

I went to Dr Peter Coleman on June 18th for 8 days of the flumazenil treatment to get off of 6 mgs of Ativan.  Dr. Coleman and his staff are awesome.  He takes time with you and really cares.  I saw three other benzo detox patients and two did great and one had a hard time.  The first day for me was great and throughout the procedure there wasn't any panic attacks or other benzo symptoms like when

You taper.  However, as the days went on I got worse and worse.  Dr Coleman offered to extend the treatment but I had to reinstate. He did not put me on a lot of medication.  He uses clonidine for blood pressure and lyrica just to prevent seizures.  I went there everyday carrying my I've bag of flumazenil hooked subcutaneous in my stomach.  Everyday he met with me and my family and encouraged us.  He wanted me well.  I believe that it didn't work for me because of the previous cold turkeys that the doctors had done in prior years.  I wish that it had worked for me.  However, the money and experience was well worth it to find such an Outstanding doctor and staff that sincerely care. 

 

I witnessed people getting free using flumazenil, however I suggest a slow taper because I think it will benefit.  You take your chances with flumazenil.  You just don't know what to expect.  I think more research needs to be done.

 

Slow and steady taper will benefit the CNS.

 

God bless you,

Deborah

 

 

Hi,

 

I went to Dr Peter Coleman on June 18th for 8 days of the flumazenil treatment to get off of 6 mgs of Ativan.  Dr. Coleman and his staff are awesome.  He takes time with you and really cares.  I saw three other benzo detox patients and two did great and one had a hard time.  The first day for me was great and throughout the procedure there wasn't any panic attacks or other benzo symptoms like when

You taper.  However, as the days went on I got worse and worse.  Dr Coleman offered to extend the treatment but I had to reinstate. He did not put me on a lot of medication.  He uses clonidine for blood pressure and lyrica just to prevent seizures.  I went there everyday carrying my I've bag of flumazenil hooked subcutaneous in my stomach.  Everyday he met with me and my family and encouraged us.  He wanted me well.  I believe that it didn't work for me because of the previous cold turkeys that the doctors had done in prior years.  I wish that it had worked for me.  However, the money and experience was well worth it to find such an Outstanding doctor and staff that sincerely care. 

 

I witnessed people getting free using flumazenil, however I suggest a slow taper because I think it will benefit.  You take your chances with flumazenil.  You just don't know what to expect.  I think more research needs to be done.

 

Slow and steady taper will benefit the CNS.

 

God bless you,

Deborah

 

Lyrica is the drug they use to replace the benzo. The people are not drug free when they leave these places. They are on other drugs that affect the same receptors as benzos do, and many people are given other classes of drugs.

 

What is Flumazenil?

No that's not true at Dr. Coleman's office he only uses lyrica during the detox to prevent seizures.  He then follows up weekly then monthly as needed.

Hi,

 

I went to Dr Peter Coleman on June 18th for 8 days of the flumazenil treatment to get off of 6 mgs of Ativan.  Dr. Coleman and his staff are awesome.  He takes time with you and really cares.  I saw three other benzo detox patients and two did great and one had a hard time.  The first day for me was great and throughout the procedure there wasn't any panic attacks or other benzo symptoms like when

You taper.  However, as the days went on I got worse and worse.  Dr Coleman offered to extend the treatment but I had to reinstate. He did not put me on a lot of medication.  He uses clonidine for blood pressure and lyrica just to prevent seizures.  I went there everyday carrying my I've bag of flumazenil hooked subcutaneous in my stomach.  Everyday he met with me and my family and encouraged us.  He wanted me well.  I believe that it didn't work for me because of the previous cold turkeys that the doctors had done in prior years.  I wish that it had worked for me.  However, the money and experience was well worth it to find such an Outstanding doctor and staff that sincerely care. 

 

I witnessed people getting free using flumazenil, however I suggest a slow taper because I think it will benefit.  You take your chances with flumazenil.  You just don't know what to expect.  I think more research needs to be done.

 

Slow and steady taper will benefit the CNS.

 

God bless you,

Deborah

 

Lyrica is the drug they use to replace the benzo. The people are not drug free when they leave these places. They are on other drugs that affect the same receptors as benzos do, and many people are given other classes of drugs.

 

The person I mentioned in my previous post who took their life was detoxed by The Coleman Institute.  I'm glad you had a good experience with the doctor and staff there Deborah, but I'm truly glad you had the good sense to reinstate when you realized the procedure did not work.

 

 

Yes, I know about her and I was feeling bad so I reinstated.  Tapering is essential.  I tried it because I was at my wits end.  Flumazenil can be dangerous in the way of making someone suicidal so I would always suggest a slow taper.  I'm not endorsing flumazenil.  I was just shocked that I actually met people that were detoxing at the same time that were talking to me and telling me how great they felt.  Going in it I thought it would work but boy I was wrong.  It's a shock to the CNS.  Dr. Coleman says it works for 80 percent of people?  Anyway, I'm glad I'm passed that part in my life.

 

So sorry for the woman that took her life.  Absolutely saddens me.

 

Tapering slowly is a blessing.

I was just shocked that I actually met people that were detoxing at the same time that were talking to me and telling me how great they felt.

 

What drugs were they detoxing from? Some people feel fine when they first get off benzos, then a couple of weeks and sometimes up to a few months later, the full blown withdrawal can develop.

Detoxing from benzos. 

Here is a link with others experiences with rapid detox.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=21764.0

Thanks for all of the feedback.  I think the rapid approach is really out of the question for us.  Perhaps it works best for people who could tolerate a quick taper anyway.  Clearly there are genetic differences which impact how people respond to benzos, and subsequent withdrawal.  We've learned recently that my wife has some drug metabolism issues, which would further add confusion to the picture.  I appreciate all of the opinions and comments.  Cheers!

Flumazenil is about as good as woodoo.  Maybe voodoo is actually better I think as it's the cost of a chicken and egg and not $12,000.00

 

Do it and you will be sorry in the long run. 

Coma method works for heroin cases and they STILL gave you methadone when you leave the clinic in many cases so your still on drugs.

 

Flumazenil assumes that the benzo is the problem, NOT!  The Glutamate is the problem and that imbalance takes years to correct in BWS.

 

The one Flumazenil success story that I know of was a person that walked out of the clinic with 4000mg a day gabapentin script.  Now that's hell!!  No help there.  Do not be fooled by this $12,000.00 $$$$$$$ money making scheme out of Virginia!

 

The logic of Flumazenil is asinine. It removes benzo's from the brain so if that works you could just stop taking them as that removes them too. It's extra fast cold turkey, no help there.

 

God I hate the Flumazenil topic, can I scream now?  These clinics need to be s__d for selling lies to desperate people.

gabapentin and lyrica do not work on the same receptors as benzos do.

gabapentin and lyrica do not work on the same receptors as benzos do.

 

True but they block glutamate and are addictive as hell too.  No help in the long run just trading one drug for another and the rehab places sell it as a 'cure' to the courts.

 

In many cases a JUDGE orders someone to detox from a benzo in say 10 days.  The rehab joint must comply so they taper the benzo over to gabapentin and the dose can get wild like up to 6000mg A day.  They are benzo free and the court is happy.  Not really a solution however as a high dose gabapentin taper is a bitch! Welcome to the legal system

i am definitely not in favor of rapid detox. but i am pro gabapentin. i have tapered from high doses of G with only minor headaches and an itch here or there............(do you think honey boo boo saves mama june's neck hairs in a jar)?

i am definitely not in favor of rapid detox. but i am pro gabapentin. i have tapered from high doses of G with only minor headaches and an itch here or there............(do you think honey boo boo saves mama june's neck hairs in a jar)?

 

As you know it works but you still have to taper something in the long run

I don't know about a medically induced coma for benzos, but such a thing exists for alcohol withdrawal, so you may be onto something. Make sure any such program is first approved by the FDA. Don't take further chances on your health. I tend to think it's easy to do such an alcohol detox, b/c the alcohol leaves you system in three days. But even if you rid your body of benzos in three days, you will still have to go thru the acute phase and then more. It's seem more like a C/T that is simply done when your under and asleep. But once you wake up, the nightmare  begins. Benzo do not leave you system in three days, and even if they do, the problem with long term withdrawal still exists, b/c your brain still has to heal. I akin it to using pheno for three days. The pheno can get rid of your withdrawal symptoms, but once they take you off it in three days, your body says, Oh NO! Now it really begins, as you no longer have the cushion of a benzo and still have to heal your brain. It seems more like a C/T than anything else. Bets