Benzo solvents discussion thread

Whether doing a daily taper or cut and hold a great way to divide any benzo is by using a dissolving liquid.

 

There is a great knowledge base here at BB and I am convinced useful dissolving liquids exist for all benzos, however, info on what solvents to use for what benzo is scattered everywhere and this thread is an attempt to concentrate lots of info in one place.  There is a real need to nail down what benzos dissolve in what liquids so that these liquids can be used with confidence.

 

Fat (i.e., milk), alcohol, and water...I'm wondering if these three liquids take care of all the benzos??

 

I'll start by listing some that I know work and don't work, and others that I suspect work, for the common benzos.

 

Valium - fat-soluble, whole milk works great; soluble in alcohol, NOT soluble in water

Klonopin - fat-soluble, whole milk works great; NOT soluble in water; not sure about alcohol?

Librium - water-soluble, water works great; not sure about fat or alcohol

Xanax -

Ativan - soluble in alcohol; NOT water-soluble; fat??

 

Reliable info is needed for ativan and xanax.  There don't seem to be any go-to solvents for them and people are scrambling for answers.  I suspect alcohol might be an answer, at least for ativan, but a problem arises when we try to dilute the alcohol with water.  How does the diluting water affect the solution?

 

Enough for now...don't want the post to get too long.

 

Hopefully this thread will become a useful reference resource.

 

Anybody have any info to add??

From knowing someone who is slowly tapering off of Xanax, they use Vodka(a small amount) to start disintegration of X and then make a suspension with water to remove. In my PM to you, I will include more information.

 

starrynight123, great information.    However, I do want to caution you about using the PM system to offer any kind of tapering support.  Our PM system is for communication related to primarily, moral support.  All tapering information should be posted directly on the board so that the information can be critiqued by all members and so that all members can benefit from the knowledge. 

 

 

 

Great thread SG57!  Aweigh would be a great person to weigh in on this topic. 

Thanks for starting this thread SG.

Has anyone tried seltzer water for titration?

 

 

Hi Starry,

Thanks for the great info.

I think the moderator just wanted to send a caution incase you didn't read the policies.

Don't stop coming and providing info.

 

This is a learning process for all.

 

 

I am having trouble getting down from .25. It looks like water dilution is not possible with Xanax. I would guess I have to go back to my Dr. to get more .25's, and cut them in half, and then quarter. I have been tapering since March from 4 mg. after 4 years of usage. It seems like the last .25 may be the most difficult, and mostly to not reinstate due to inability to sleep. Is there any forum or group that would like to get this taken off the market in the US?. I relate it to the Opium War between Britain and China, as it all gets down to the dollar, and control of the population.

I am having trouble getting down from .25. It looks like water dilution is not possible with Xanax. I would guess I have to go back to my Dr. to get more .25's, and cut them in half, and then quarter. I have been tapering since March from 4 mg. after 4 years of usage. It seems like the last .25 may be the most difficult, and mostly to not reinstate due to inability to sleep. Is there any forum or group that would like to get this taken off the market in the US?. I relate it to the Opium War between Britain and China, as it all gets down to the dollar, and control of the population.

 

I'm not sure of all the options for xanax.  It would be nice to dissolve it, but, for any benzo, you can get the Ora Pus suspension liquid and I don't see why it would not work very well.  Certainly, if you are struggling with dry cutting xanax, this would be a big improvement.

Ora-Plus and/or Ora-Sweet will work fine for any benzo. I used it for my entire Valium micro-taper. You have to first disintegrate your tablet in something else like a small amount of water or alcohol and then stir it into the Ora-Plus medium. Some people including myself mixed in some Ora-Sweet to improve the taste but it is not necessary. Ora-Plus is used by some compounding pharmacists as it will suspend pretty much everything. The suspension seems fine enough to render the fact it does not provide a solution a moot point. It may also be diluted up to 50% with water, syrups, juices, etc. to cut down on the cost. The downside is price. It can be gotten on Amazon.com for 20 some dollars per 473ml. One option is to use a combination of tablets and Ora-Plus. Say, if your dose is 2.3mg, you could take a 2mg tablet and .3mg in your Ora-Plus suspension. It can also be diluted easily to provide extremely small amounts. My last dose was around .0007mg.

 

Bart

Thanks for starting this thread SG.

Has anyone tried seltzer water for titration?

 

Seltzer water is still water.  Won't work except for Librium.

The ora plus appears to be glycerin based.

Some tincturing can be done with either vegetable glycerin or propylene glycol.

Maybe It might be cheaper to just use seltzer water and glycerin?

Glycerin would be the suspension and seltzer water would dissolve the pill.

 

In relation to this, at what point can you just stop? I would think if I tapered down from 4 mg. 3 times per day, to taking .25 mg at bedtime, since March,  that I could plateau for a month or two, then go cold turkey. How bad could that be?

In relation to this, at what point can you just stop? I would think if I tapered down from 4 mg. 3 times per day, to taking .25 mg at bedtime, since March,  that I could plateau for a month or two, then go cold turkey. How bad could that be?

It could possibly get bad to cold turkey that much Xanax if a person is dependent.  .25mg of Xanax equals 5mg of Valium.  I quartered a .25mg Xanax and dropped a quarter of a tablet from .25mg until I was off.  Some on the Xanax taper thread in Support Groups are titrating to get free.   

Propylene glycol works too.  It's one of the few chemicals that dissolves just about anything even phenobarbital and that's tougher than benzo's  (Propylene glycol is used in most ice cream to keep it soft so it's safe)

So for ativan there is... Alcohol, which is a problem... And ora plus, which is expensive.

 

There has to be something else...

Propylene glycol works too.  It's one of the few chemicals that dissolves just about anything even phenobarbital and that's tougher than benzo's  (Propylene glycol is used in most ice cream to keep it soft so it's safe)

 

I must be invisible

I use 1 ml of vodka to dissolve my valium tablets.

 

Okatz

Propylene glycol works too.  It's one of the few chemicals that dissolves just about anything even phenobarbital and that's tougher than benzo's  (Propylene glycol is used in most ice cream to keep it soft so it's safe)

 

Birdman,

Where can we get propylene glycol?  And where can we find out more about it?

 

It is one of the ingredients in the liquid valium 5:5...

"The wintergreen-spice flavored 5 mg/5 mL Oral Solution contains bitterness modifier, citric acid, D&C Yellow No. 10, FD&C Red No. 40, flavoring, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, sodium citrate, sorbitol, and water."

 

I use 1 ml of vodka to dissolve my valium tablets.

 

Okatz

 

How is that working out?  How much water do you use to dilute it?

Propylene glycol works too.  It's one of the few chemicals that dissolves just about anything even phenobarbital and that's tougher than benzo's  (Propylene glycol is used in most ice cream to keep it soft so it's safe)

 

Birdman,

Where can we get propylene glycol?  And where can we find out more about it?

 

It is one of the ingredients in the liquid valium 5:5...

"The wintergreen-spice flavored 5 mg/5 mL Oral Solution contains bitterness modifier, citric acid, D&C Yellow No. 10, FD&C Red No. 40, flavoring, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, sodium citrate, sorbitol, and water."

 

 

You can get USP grade PG (Propylene Glycol) from here

http://www.discountvapers.com/what-is-propylene-glycol/

Just found this on Xanax...

 

http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/archives/fdaDrugInfo.cfm?archiveid=4919

 

It says xanax is soluble in alcohol.

 

Also shows the other ingredients in liquid xanax are...

 

Inactive ingredients: propylene glycol, succinic acid, succinic acid disodium salt, and water.

Bird man I did see your comment but I was also wonering where to get the prop glycol. Also I am very scared of the name, as I am of all things that sound chemical-y. Sorry. Is the prop available at a pharmacy? Is it as expensive as the ora?

I believe that most benzo injections are made in polypropylene glycol which is a food additive and It will make a solution not a suspension with a small amount of heat however this degrade the potency so it seems much safer to use water or milk in a suspension. Google polypropylene glycol

DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) is a natural solvent and sulfur.

It is also, a carrier that travels thru cell rapidly.

I'm sure it would dissolve a benzo, but u would have to use a very tiny amount.

I wouldn't know how this would react to the benzo either.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3916302

 

I wonder if a pharmacist would know?

 

Just for grins, I tried dissolving tylenol in soda and it only broke up into tiny pieces.

I tried it in alcohol and it did the same thing.

 

I don't have any benzo's to try.

 

This site is interesting

http://lxsrv7.oru.edu/~alang/onsc/solubility/allsolvents.php?solute=lorazepam

So...we are back to ora and alcohol?

So...we are back to ora and alcohol?

I believe, birdman was using xanthan gum with ativan.

 

Hmm? How does that wrk?