On My Knees For Help

Hello. I have hit a wall in my taper and with my prescriber. I have w/d using Ashton from 45 mg of Dalmane to @ 7 mg of Dalmane per night in @ 2 months. I was prescribed the Dalmane for insomnia for 36 years. The taper 're Ashton has been 10 mg of Valium taken at bedtime with the current 7 mg of Dalmane. My prescriber will not refill the Valium and I do not know what to take now in my cuts with either the Dalmane or Valium. I have lots of the Dalmane left but only sixty tabs of the 10 mg. Valium. I cannot sleep more than a few hours. Have all the most common miserable w/d symptoms. But how in heck do I taper to get off both meds now? I am too sleep deprived to figure this out, and one buddy out there or more sure as hell knows more than a newbie like me.....Thanks for listening and sorry if this post is not using the correct words, etc. 

Hi:

 

Don't worry, your post was fine.

 

I am sorry your in such a state. But you don't mention why your doctor refuses to give you more valium. I don't know if you have both a PCP or a psychiatrist, or who is even giving you the medication. It seems crazy to me that your doc won't script you anymore Valium. 10 mg is too much to C/T from it. if you're using the Ashton Manual, switching over to valium, then it makes no sense to me whatsoever that he'll stop giving you the script. Why? You don't say. You only have 60 tabs left, but that's enuf for you to call him, text him, or go back to him ASAP and explain that you need more scripts to taper. I would do so immediately to get a refill, somehow. By the time Tuesday comes around, what with the holidays, your doc won't be available for a few days, I am assuming.

 

If he won't give you any, then since you have 60 tabs left, maybe you can quickly find another doctor, explain your situation, and get a script from him. Or go to your other doctor, if it's a PCP, and ask him for a script.

 

I know little about Dalmane except that it's a long acting benzo. Just like valium. I need more info from you to help as best as I can. You've been on the dalmane for lots of years, so the remaining dosages of dalmane and valium should be tapered slowly.

 

Post me back with more information about your doctor's stupid decision and you're history of benzo use, how long you've been tapering, etc. What are your physical and mental symptoms right now? Do you have somebody in your house that can help you as an advocate? Can you drive? Tommorow is Monday, so offices should be open. Keep us up to date so we can offer better advice. Good luck, Betsy

Thanks ever for replying. And I apologize for not providing more clarification on the no-refill of Valium issue from my psychiatrist of 36 years. The problem is that I am a retired attorney, and I have a tendency to challenge what-I-perceive as injustice. In this instance, my shrink will not give me (a 64 year old woman) a Valium refill because he wants me to take Geodon instead. I know about the lawsuits with this drug. I know it is completely contraindicated (if not illegally dispensed) for my age, sex and circumstances utilizing the Ashton Protocol. I have no health insurance (folks out there, please read "Benzo Land" available as an e-book on Amazon.com) because there are those like myself who do not have the funds for these doctors and in my case I dedicated a life to raising a great Deaf kid, who required every penny I ever made in my career). In fact, I still live with him and my husband - they are incredibly supportive so I am very blessed that way. Long story short, the shrink is afraid of a lawsuit, and is throwing me under the bus. I have tried finding another physician for months but there are none willing to take me on with the Ashton Protocol given the long term prescribing of the Dalmane at such a high (and again, illegal) dosage. Too risky and at my age. But thanks for your input. I really appreciate the fact that you replied. Insofar as what I will do? I'm in the author's boat in "Benzo Land" and will just have to leave it to God. My faith has saved me before, and God willing, it will happen again...with or without valium to get off the Dalmane.   

The problem is, there is no standard for tapering a benzo, that is left to the decision of the prescriber. I can't advise you what to do as far as how to taper other than finding a doctor to help and I know you already tried, but if this doctor got you up on toxic levels and is dropping you, I think he deserves to be sued. I would call a lawyer who can deal with it and possibly you can find a benzo doctor to help you.

 

I have no clue as in why he wants you on an antipsychotic? They seem to be the new pill to prescribe off label.

 

I know personally when I mentioned WD to my prescriber he started to mention antipsychotics to me, which will be a cold day in hell that I will take anything else.

 

I personally came up with a plan B and a plan C in case my doctor throws me under the bus.

 

I hope you find the Doctor that will help you ASAP so that you do not have the extra stress from worrying about that.

 

 

Thanks. And you are so right about coming up with a plan B or C for this worse case scenario. It is excellent advice for others out there. I had a terrific relationship with this shrink for decades until I started challenging this off labeling issue of anti-psychotics but when I think about it...it's really defensive medicine. He fears a lawsuit and if I took the Geodon as he wanted, then he can counter sue and undermine my credibility by saying "Hey, she's psychotic and should be locked up!" The guy is also quite old and maybe he plans to retire sooner than he is going to tell his patients who will, like me, have nowhere to go. Bottomline in  my opinion is this as stated  in the e-book Benzo Land: it is a pay to play game for many of these shrinks...you get the meds if you can pay your way. Also, lawyers are not welcome patients generally in any medical field although I have never sued anyone in my life...yet. I always found a way to negotiate and mediate the problem. Thanks again for being there.

Hi:

 

Geodon! Laura36 is right. Geodon is an atypical antipsychotic used to treat schizophrenia and manic bipolar symptoms. It will not help you with your detox. I read on wikipedia's benzodiazapine withdrawal symdrome that antipsychotics should not be used in withdrawal. Look it up yourself. I wouldn't touch the stuff. Your doctor is an idiot.

 

You also mentioned that you are 64 years old, Geodon is contraindicated for the elderly. Not that you're THAT old, but still, it needs to be addressed. If you've tried for months without success in finding another pdoctor, then try your family doctor.  Or try another family doctor, aka PCP. There must be someone out there who can give you a script, since I'm assuming that you've tried pdocs for months without success.

 

The valium should help with the dalmane taper, but then you'll have to taper off the valium. Seems you're in a bind. But since you're a lawyer, you should be great at research. I'd get on the yellow pages right away, starting tommorow. The yellow pages are filled with doctors. Since you're in a desperate place, I'd go through each name one at a time, telling them its an emergency, and you need to see someone ASAP. Make several apppointments and keep going to each one until you find one that will give you a script. And refills. And DON'T tell them your a lawyer. I am a journalist and it scares the crap out of docs who think about to write a negative story about them. I just tell them I am a writer. They think it's books and I keep my mouth shut.

 

I realize you have a problem with $$ due to your deaf child and am sorry for that. Don't you have insurance?

 

I now see a new post from Laura36 that tells you to find a plan B and C, which is what I am saying also. You're stress level is high my friend. But you have some time before it hits the fan.

 

I don't know how many times a day you take the 10 mg of valium, but if you take it only once a day, then you have two whole months ahead of you. Don't leave it to God's hands, he's telling you to help yourself. If worse comes to worse, then an ER doc might give you a script to help with the taper. C/T off of 10 mg of valium will be very uncomfortable, to make an understatement. Please keep us posted. I still know very little about your situation. I also can't imagine how you've been seeing this same doctor for 36 years and all of a sudden he stops the meds, or changes them to something idiotic, like geodon. Doctors should be forced to take benzos for a year and then told to stop them and take something like geodon. The health care profession is a mess. Keep us posted my friend. Betsy

frightnite,

I have been with one doctor only, for 20 years and I feel as if the same thing is going to happen to me, which is why I have back up plans. But all these years he has told me to increase I didn't. If I would have increased I would be at a high level by now. Even though I did not increase, I still did not know about WD and such, I didn't want to increase because I didn't want to become tolerant at a higher levels. I thought tapering would be a few week thing. My doctor still denies that withdrawal exists and that my dose is a low dose and if I should ever want to stop to just stop at 2mg (klonopin) because it is such a tiny dose (yea right). 2mg klonopin is equal to 40mg of Valium! I have only taken up to 1mg, I have never taken higher then that. I just didn't take his advice all these years.

 

There was no internet back then, no support groups and no way to research and the doctor never told me anything. At least people can be warned now. I have friends who take benzos for stress and they don't believe me. It is a crying shame!

 

I was able to email psychiatrists and ask about tapering and benzos before even making an appointment. I wanted to know their stance before seeing them. I have one in mind for springtime when my prescription is due to be written.

 

Myself I refuse to crossover to Valium due to having  reaction and I want a very slow slow micro taper and they have to be ok with that before I see them. But I know you are in a pickle at the moment. If I were you finding a doctor for the amount you need is first and foremost.

 

Also I was going to say the same thing you did about the drug he wants you to take. I thought the same thing as you, losing credibility if anything goes wrong.

 

I will be praying for you.

 

laura36,

You have helped get me through the last five minutes when I was worried about the upcoming 5 minutes. Yes, I agree with all your positions here. In fact, you and I seem to have begun with these meds about the same time period - before the internet, before the proverbial cat-was-out-of-the-bag. Assured how safe these meds were. But...you were much more intelligent than I was. My shrink kept increasing the dosage of Dalmane to the "insane" level of 45 mg. which is contrary to FDA regs in the USA. All the while telling me that I was an anomaly with a chemical brain imbalance having been forced literally by family and doctors at 7 years old to take barbituates for sleepwalking night terrors/seizures following the sudden death of my sister (virtually my twin). So, I learned at a very young age and a highly impressionable one that in times of trauma, the doctor knows best, and everyone will be happy once I stop disturbing the household already in such grief. Right....But the point I wish to make here is this: perhaps I am an example of what will happen to these young children now - forced by school psychologists, family, social services and the like to take these dangerous meds that will condition them to be more susceptible to continuing that road for a lifetime.

 

In addition, I really do applaud you for having the guts to "quietly" and effectively not allow your physician to  execute a forced compliance situation with your meds by heading it off at the pass, so to speak. You have kept it at a lower level and with plan B and C, you are way ahead of the game here. And the game is life or death. We must survive. We must challenge. We must have back up plans. We must understand the applicable laws. My shrink in refusing to continue the Ashton Protocol at this critical stage when I am 7 mg away from being free of Dalmane after 36 years (minus the months of my pregnancy....smile...another story for gals out there when pregnancy is a surprise while previously on benzos) and recommending Geodon (a subject of a class action lawsuit pending now) along with other anti-psychotics in the same groups of meds *which by the way are no longer used on animals by veterinarians because Geodon and the like are too dangerous...raises the issue of what is criminal and what is civil in the law. As a retired criminal attorney this interests me, particularly if I survive this taper and withdrawal without the needed valium.

 

I understand the search necessary to find another doctor. I have tried for 7 months to do so. But depending upon where one lives (i.e., a conservative bastion vs. a liberal one), there is nothing for me  where I live now. To ask for Valium with the Ashton Protocol which as you know has not been formally approved by the FDA in the USA...would be considered drug-seeking behavior here. The only alternative would by a flight to Santa Fe, NM where I lived for several years with my Deaf son who attended an excellent school for the Deaf there...and where there are some truly honorable physicians who not only follow the oaths they took to heal...they are not in it solely for the money.

 

If I cannot make it physically, that's another matter.

 

Nonetheless, I do so appreciate BB and your assistance in this conversation. I wish to God I had the internet capabilities in 1978 when this morass began to my detriment and that of my family's.

Hi:

 

You make a very great point about doctors handing out meds like they are the answer to life's little problems. Now they are handing them out like candy to kids. What a cruel nightmare. I would hate to see you fly to NM just to get a script for valium. Tells you a lot about the so called medical profession. Many should have their license revoked, like yours.

 

I am amazed at the amount of dalmane your doc scripted you. Am also amazed that after 36 years you didn't become tolerant to them. Too bad you began this horrible journey before the internet. I am going to take the BBers advice and form a plan B and C. Chime in please about how you questioned docs offices on the internet.!! I would like to do the same! I don't trust my doctor tho he's big on switching me over to valium. he has no problem with that. But he's an ego maniac, know it all and I hate him. He point blank told me this week that he didn't like me as a patient. Always one to put me down. But he's doing a great job of tapering me so I put up with his crap.

 

You seems religous, so pray, pray, pray. As you know, God never gives you anything your shoulders can't carry. Please try and take the advice of finding a family doctor at this point, just to get a script. Since you have no luck with a pdoc, then go to a PCP in the yellow pages. Tons of docs listed there and go one by one and make several appointments and go to them until you find the right one, if only temporary. Try not to detox on 10 mg of valium. It will be hard on you. I don't know what else to say but I feel for you and know you are stressed out. I would be too. Before I go to bed I will say a prayer for you. You are NOT alone. Keep us posted. I'll be thinking of you.

 

I want you to know that there is always support here whenever you need it. You can PM me anytime. Even if it's 3 a.m, someone from some other country is wide awake and it's day time. I often cannot fall asleep and find fellow BBers online in the middle of the night. Insomnia is my greatest problem.

 

Try to focus on tommorow's job of finding a new family doctor. Please don't give up. You need more valium. I don't know how much you take during the day but if its only one 10 mg tab then you have 60 days...I will be thinking of you. Am worried. Will say a prayer for you as soon as I get off BB. A big hug, Betsy

 

 

When you turn 65 years old , you can go on medicare and medicare part d for your medications. If you can hang on until then, you can find a Dr that can help you.

For me it was trial and error..I walked out off 5 doctors offices before I found the right one.

 

Good luck to you!

Frightnight:

 

I hope today you started making phone calls to local doctors who maybe willing to refill yout script for valium. Going C/T off of it will be quite unpleasant. You don't want to do that.

 

And yes, you're so right about the state of the medical profession. They are handing out drugs candy-like as a cure all for every little problem. And now they're giving loads of meds to kids, which is criminal. They should revoke the licenses of many doctors, yours included.

 

I don't know how he managed to give you such a high dose of dalmane. And I don't know why you didn't build up a tolerance for it after 36 years. Truly boggles my mind.

 

So if you can find names in the yellow pages, they're should be tons of them, then keep making appointments and going to each one until you find one that can write you a script. Don't give up. I don't know how many times a day your are taking the 10 mg of valium, but if it's only once than you have 60 days....

 

I know you are religious so pray pray and pray. God is listening; she just telling you to help yourself. Just remember that the folks on BB care about you and I know you are stressed at this time. The posts from laura36 forming a plan B and C seems really good. I for one am going to do that myself. I wonder how Laura got the info from local doctors via the internet. Please chime in Laura, and tell me how you did so. Would like to know what to do about that.

 

I don't like my current doc but he's good about switching me over to valium, which is what I want. But he doesn't like me and vis versa. It's unpleasant when I have to meet him. I may be looking for a new doc come the new year. I would hate to see you have to fly somewhere just to get a script. You can PM me anytime, day or night, so feel free to do so. I'll be thinking of your and praying for you. You'll be OK. Hugs, Betsy

I looked for doctors in my state, psychiatrists. They have a find a doc type of search engines and the listed doctors sometimes list email addresses, that is how I started to email them. Not every one answers. Some of my other doctors who believe me, I ask them if they know anyone, even ask them to look for one. My Plan B Doctor is 3 hours away and I, by his rules, have to see him every month during a benzo taper. that is why he is plan B instead of my current plan. Now I just collect my medication and am tapering on my own. Plan C I can't talk about in public

 

These doctors that are scared of us, well it is frustrating, I wish there was some kind of wavier we could sign and just get on with our tapers as slowly as we have to minimize any damage.

Hiya:

 

Do you have enough valium to do a taper yourself? Seems not. I hate to think of you having to go 3 hours to get to your doctor. Where do you live, in Alaska? LOL. We have tons of doctors here close by where I live in Connecticut. Like I said, feel free to PM me anytime at all. I'll be here for you and so will BB. Hugs, Betsy

Hiya:

 

Do you have enough valium to do a taper yourself? Seems not. I hate to think of you having to go 3 hours to get to your doctor. Where do you live, in Alaska? LOL. We have tons of doctors here close by where I live in Connecticut. Like I said, feel free to PM me anytime at all. I'll be here for you and so will BB. Hugs, Betsy

 

Oh there are doctors near me but they will not accept a new patient to taper from  benzo(so far), its like I am damaged goods or something LOL. The one 3 hours away is the only one (so far) that will allow me to stay on k and taper from it and allow me to micro taper instead of Ashton method, which I tried before and does not work for me. The only thing I can do with doctors near me is to tell them that I will stay on the K and then taper behind their backs and I don't want to do that, if I switch doctors I want one who will help me not hinder my efforts.