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Example of a Valium/Diazepam Daily Reduction Method


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For quite a while I’ve had the daily tapering method that I use in my progress log, with a link to it in my signature. I know that a number of people have found it helpful, and that’s been fantastic. However, I don’t want to take all the credit for it. It was Fliprain who taught me the basics of this method and I’ve just expanded on it with the liquid valium. So, I’m just “paying it forward”.

 

Anyway, I’ve realised that the problem with having it in my progress log is that if anyone has a question, they can’t post it directly onto the thread because no one can post a reply on a progress log. Instead they would have to PM me. So to solve that problem I am creating a new thread here, so if anyone has a question they can ask directly on this thread.

 

Firstly, there are no right or wrong methods of tapering, provided it is a sensible tapering method (I saw one posted recently that was just plain crazy…). They all get you to the same end result of zero, but it just depends on the method that you find the easiest to manage, and the one that gives you as few symptoms as possible.

 

I know how overwhelming daily tapering can seem when you are new to it, so I have tried to set this out as simply as possible, showing how to make up a basic 1mg:100ml mixture.  I know how complicated it can sound when you are starting out, but it really is easy once you start doing it. I’ve never come across anyone who hasn’t been able to work out how to do a daily taper.

 

Just take one step at a time. Try not to over-think it. Sometimes it helps to just start out by making up your liquid mixture but not reduce anything for a while, just to get used to doing that part of the process, until you feel more confident with what you are doing.

 

Cutting Tablets: I will start by saying that this method will require the cutting of 2mg tablets in halves. While there are some people who will say this is not advisable, there are just as many people who will say it doesn’t matter because of the extended half-life of valium. The only proviso is that the cut halves should be used as consecutive doses, so any inconsistencies will even out over a day or two. 

 

I personally cut my tablets all the way from 5mg down to 1mg and I never had any problems, but I'm not everyone. So, if cutting your tablets is a concern for you I have explained how you can avoid doing that later in this post. Also, some brands of valium tablets are larger than others, so if you plan on cutting your tablets make sure the brand you use is one that is already scored in the middle. Some brands are quite small and are not scored (eg Apo) and these are not recommended for cutting. The brand I used was Antenex which I found to be very good for cutting.

 

Ratios of Mixture: There are other ratios that can be used other than the 1:100 ratio that I use (eg 1:10), but I prefer this ratio because you are using more liquid, making the measuring of doses much easier to see. Also, because the solution is less concentrated, I think any minor inconsistencies in the doses aren’t going to be a problem. However, this is an individual choice and you may prefer to modify this method to a different ratio, and that’s fine.

 

EQUIPMENT REQUIRED

 

Nothing fancy is needed. You just need a 1ml and a 10ml syringe and 2-3 glass jars with lids that hold at least 100ml. Smaller glass jars with a wider top are best because it makes it easier to fit the 10ml syringe in (good types to use are baby food jars, jam/jelly jars etc). That's all the equipment you will need. I also prefer to make up a couple of batches at a time, so I always have one ready to use. You don't need a special 100ml graduated cylinder or a mortor and pestle. I think a lot of methods get far too complicated with the equipment that's required. KISS (Keep it Simple – Sweetie...lol...). 

 

Just a tip - to stop the numbers from wearing off the syringes, you can put some clear tape over the numbers. However, I find that after a while the rubber on the plunger starts to wear out anyway, so that's when you need to toss it.

 

MAKING UP THE LIQUID SOLUTION

 

I will start by explaining how to make up the 1:100ml solution, and then below is the tapering schedule. To measure the 100ml just use the 10ml syringe x 10 fills. Something that I found made life a bit easier is that my kitchen scales would measure in mls (it’s the same as grams). So all I had to do was put my valium in the jar and then slowly pour in the water/milk until it reached 100ml (I would use my 10ml syringe for the final few mls just so it didn’t go over the 100ml). I tested the scale’s accuracy numerous times with my 10ml syringe and it was very accurate. However, if this method makes you a bit nervous, just stick with using the 10ml syringe, but the kitchen scale can help you keep track of how many fills you have made.

 

(a) If you are using valium tablets only

 

Add 1mg valium tablet to 100ml full fat milk and allow to dissolve. The fat helps to keep the valium suspended, but when drawing out the required dose, make sure you keep it mixed well by doing a backwards and forwards swishing movement. A lot of people avoid stirring and shaking, as stirring can create a vortex, and shaking can cause bubbles and can leave particles stuck to the side of the jar.

 

If you are unable to use cow's milk, people have had success with other types of milk like almond, soy etc. The main thing is to make sure the fat content is similar to the fat content of whole milk.

 

(b) If you are using liquid valium (1mg=1ml ratio / 10mg=10ml ratio) + tablets

 

Add 1ml of liquid Valium to 99ml of water (this makes a total of 100ml).

 

© If you are using liquid valium (2mg=5ml ratio) + tablets

 

When the liquid ratio is 2mg=5ml, that means that 1mg = 2.5ml. So add 2.5ml of liquid valium to 97.5ml of water (this makes a total of 100ml).

 

REDUCTION METHOD

 

This has now converted your 1mg of valium (liquid or tablet) into a 100ml liquid mixture, which can be reduced over a period of time, hopefully giving you a slow and smooth taper with few side effects.

 

The next step is to work out how you want to reduce the 1mg. This can be worked out on a percentage basis or as the number of days you want to take to reduce this amount. My preference is the number of days, because I’m not much good at working out percentages ..lol…

 

Below are the number of mls you would need to reduce each day to achieve the required number of (approx) days shown. Of course most people will be taking more than a 1mg dose, so you would take your additional dose in tablet form (ie if your dose is 6mg, you would use the 100ml mixture for 1mg and take an additional 5mg in tablet form).

 

Reduce 100ml by 10ml per day = 10 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 9.5ml per day = 11 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 9ml per day = 11 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 8.5ml per day = 12 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 8ml per day = 12 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 7.5ml per day = 13 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 7ml per day = 14 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 6.5ml per day = 15 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 6ml per day = 16 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 5.5ml per day = 18 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 5ml per day = 20 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 4.5ml per day = 22 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 4ml per day = 25 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 3.5ml per day = 28 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 3ml per day = 33 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 2.5ml per day = 40 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 2ml per day = 50 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 1.5ml per day = 66 days to reduce 1mg

Reduce 100ml by 1ml per day = 100 days to reduce 1mg

 

So, using the red highlighted amount as an example, this would be your dosing schedule (+ you would also need to take whatever amount you needed to take in tablet form to make up your full dose).

 

Day 1 – Drink the 100ml solution

Day 2 – Make a new solution and drink 98ml (you can either discard the rest or use it to make up part of your next day’s dose)

Day 3 – Make a new solution and drink 96ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 4 – Make a new solution and drink 94ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 5 – Make a new solution and drink 92ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 6 – Make a new solution and drink 90ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

 

etc …….. until you reach zero. Then you would start the process again, but reduce the amount of tablets you are taking by 1mg, because you have now reduced your dose by 1mg.

 

To ensure you have gotten every part of your dose, especially if you are using milk, after drinking your dose you can add some water to the glass, swish around and drink the water.

 

This method can be used for a once a day dosing, or multiple daily dosing. For multiple daily dosing, just divide your doses as normal, and then choose which of your doses you will reduce. You may prefer to just reduce (eg) your morning dose to zero first, and then reduce your other doses later. Or you may decide to alternate the reductions to cover all your doses at the same time. I'm not sure what is the best way to go, because I am a once a day doser, so I would prefer not to give any advice on that subject.

 

Also, make sure you keep a journal of each day's dose and maybe a note of how you are feeling. My recommendation with any daily taper is that you start with a lower daily reduction amount than you think you need because it is much easier to increase your taper rather than suffer side effects and have to hold and decrease. Everyone will react differently to the half-life of valium, so it may take up to 2 weeks before you will know how well you are doing with the taper amount you have chosen. So keeping a note of daily symptoms will help you keep a track of how everything is going, so you can make any necessary adjustments.

 

IF YOU PREFER TO AVOID CUTTING TABLETS

 

Using this method, it will be inevitable that at some point you are going to have to cut your tablets, but if you would like to try to avoid doing that as much as possible, you can make up a larger mixture by using a 2:200 ratio. All you will need to do is double the amounts shown above (ie 2mg tablet with 200ml of milk). This will simply double the amount of liquid you have, but you will still reduce by the same quantities shown above.

 

 

SOME TIPS I’VE PICKED UP ALONG THE WAY

 

(a) Potency of Solution: I have read some speculation over a period of time that when a mixture is made using valium and water or valium and milk it may lose its potency over a period of time.  I don’t know if there is any scientific proof of this, but after experiencing an issue which made me think this could be true, I now only make enough to last no more than 5 days just to be on the safe side.

 

If you are getting to a point in your taper where the 100ml solution is lasting a lot longer than about 5 days, you could either just throw away any remaining mixture, or try making up a smaller proportioned batch (eg 0.5ml liquid valium with 50ml water or 0.2ml liquid valium with 20ml water).

 

(b) Changing from tablets to liquid (or vice versa): If you do a switch from using a combination of tablets and liquid to all liquid, or even if you switch to different brands of tablets or liquid, it might be helpful to hold your dose for a while, or even do a small updose, just to make sure things go smoothly with the transition.

 

© Slow is Good: The biggest lesson I have learned, and I can’t emphasise this enough, is do not think that tapering faster will get you off the benzo quicker and therefore you will get better faster. YOU WON’T. You can not fool your body, and your body will always have the last word. Try to taper faster and your body will just say “NO YOU DON’T. I’M IN CHARGE”, and you’ll take a hit. I’ve seen it happen time and time again.

 

The way I see it, we all have a predetermined amount of time for healing, and therefore we only have two choices to make. We can either go fast to get the actual taper over and done with, but probably suffer the entire time we are tapering and also continue to suffer for an undetermined amount of time afterwards until we heal. Or we can go slow, taper at a rate that our bodies find acceptable, thereby giving us either no or manageable symptoms and allowing us to live a relatively normal life. Then when we finally step off at the end we are almost healed, or for some people fully healed.

 

Even going too fast with a daily taper will almost always have the paradoxical effect of actually making your taper time slower. That has happened to me a few times. I’ve increased my daily taper, ignored the signs that things weren’t right, and then I’ve been hit and had to hold my dose until things got better. This has meant that the entire amount of time taken has been longer than if I’d just stuck with the lower daily taper in the first place. It’s false economy, or in the words of Lewis Carroll “The hurrier I go, the behinder I get”.

 

I have battled with my impatience my entire taper until I finally took a major hit at the 1mg mark. That was the point where I finally slapped myself and said “ENOUGH”. This final leg of my taper is being done slowly and carefully and (touch wood) I am currently symptom free. That makes me certain that when my taper is finally finished I will be as close to fully healed as possible.

 

Good Luck!!!  If you have any questions just ask.

 

 

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This is fascinating. Thank you for posting it. I'm currently stuck in a bad place and my doctor has suggested a few things that I think are good ideas but I also believe he tapered me way too quickly and that i need to go even slower than he thinks, as we head forward. I also am having a very difficult time getting stable.

 

Okay, I'm rambling. I have all sorts of questions but I think I need to get stable first. Then i want to have my physics teaching husband look at this so we can figure out how to do it. I just wonder if my doctor is going to go for it. Or should I switch doctors and not even tell him I'm tapering?

 

Thank you again. Everything you've laid out makes total sense. It is refreshing. I am kicking myself for not slowing down way earlier.

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I just wonder if my doctor is going to go for it. Or should I switch doctors and not even tell him I'm tapering?

 

You could try to sell it as "the same thing just gentler."  And that it "avoids the shock caused by bigger step-down cuts."

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Hi Standard

 

You could also just say to your doctor "just let me try it for a month or so and see how I go". Surely he couldn't be too upset about that proposal.

 

The other alternative is to just not tell your doctor. I don't like being untruthful with doctors, but sometimes you just don't need to tell them the whole story. As long as your doctor is prepared to write the scripts, that's all you really need them for. You will get a lot more useful first-hand knowledge from the people here at BB because we're actually living it.

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  • 1 month later...

I just used a standard pill cutter/splitter to cut my 2mg tablets in half. The one I used always did a very clean cut. I can't vouch for other brands of valium/diazepam, but mine (Antenex) were fairly hard, so they didn't crumble when cut.

 

If you are planning on doing a dry weight and cut taper (eg using a jewellers scale) I can't really offer much advice, except that I have read that others use razor blades or small cutting knives to cut very small amounts off their tablets.

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I am not going to do the dry cut taper.  I am trying to figure out how to cut my tablets so I can side step into Valium.  I take ativan .75 a day in 6 doses of .125. That I can cut pretty well, but to side step in I have to cut the .125 in half. That and my Valium amount is weird as well and it crumbles.
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I have the 2mg tablets that are scored down the middle, that is an easy cut.  Then I have to cut the in half and in half again to side step into a crossover to V.  I saw you were dry cutting so I was curious.  You have any ideas?  And thanks for your replies.  I have been around BB for over a month and really enjoy following your other thread on V tapering.
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Hmmm - cutting the tablets more than once could be a problem because each time you cut you are getting an inaccuracy with your dose. Cutting in half isn't usually a problem, provided you use the halves for consecutive doses, but cutting again, and again, usually leads to the bits not being very equal in size, and loss of some of the benzo with crumbling etc.

 

Let me think..... do you think there would be some way to utilise the milk titration of the tablets to help you cross over to the valium? Say, if you used the whole 2mg tablet with 100ml of milk, then every 25mg of milk would be equal to 0.25mg which would be a quarter of each tablet, but the accuracy would be a lot better. Similarly, 12.5ml would be equal to 0.125mg. Of course you could also use the 200ml with the 2mg tablet if you wanted to. You would just need to adjust the calculations.

 

Alternatively, could you try a different brand of diazepam? Maybe you could talk to your pharmacist to see if he/she is aware of any brand that would cut cleaner.

 

A second alternative is to maybe find a compounding pharmacist who would compound specially dosed tablets for you so you wouldn't need to cut them.

 

Sorry, I'm probably thinking out loud here. Maybe you could post your question on the valium support thread, and some of our other brainier valium users might have some ideas. Here's the link.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=96753.0

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I don't get how many ml =  how much in mg.  For example the 2gm tablet in 100ml of milk then every 25mg of milk = .25mg of the tablet. or 12.5ml would be equal to 0.125mg. I am so far removed from school and math dumb that I have been going to math pages to try to understand and my brain is just not there.

I take .125 mg of A and to side step in I can cut that to half the dose because they don't crumble. My full dose of V for each .125 A is 1.25, but I need to half that for side step in, so that would be .625. I would take that for I don't know, 5-6 days then drop the A and go to the 1.25 V. Hold that for a week and go on to next dose. then combine the two doses to equal 2.5 V. and continue until I have all 6 doses combined to 3 2.5 of V. Would doing the milk and then going to the tablets be ok?

                                          Thank you for helping me!

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Yeah, use it or lose it!  I need math for my work and that keeps me fresh.

 

If you can commit to understand ONE NUMBER AND WHAT IT MEANS I think that is really all it takes.  That number is solution strength.  To get it, DIVIDE the number of mg of your drug by the number of ml (volume) of liquid.  That's it!  That's the key number!

 

What does this number mean?  It is the amount of the drug contained in each 1ml of liquid.

 

So in your example...2mg valium tablet put into 100ml whole milk: divide 2mg by 100ml and you get .02.  This means that each ml contains .02mg.  So now, to get any dose of valium you just ask yourself, "if I need X amount of valium, how many ml's add up to that?"  For example, if you need 1.25mg valium it would take 62.5ml to add up to 1.25mg because each ml contains .02mg.

 

I hope this helps!  :)

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Sg7, thank you so much for the math information.  I also have a very hard time with the math computing and what you posted actually makes sense! :). I'm at 1.5mg valium and symptoms are getting more pronounced and I was thinking of titration but really couldn't figure it out, even with the many good explanations posted in the board.  I wish you had been my math teacher!

 

DiazPam, thank you so much for your time and your invaluable information.  I don't post often but I wanted you to know how very appreciated you are.

 

Thank you :smitten:

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Sg7, thank you so much for the math information.  I also have a very hard time with the math computing and what you posted actually makes sense! :). I'm at 1.5mg valium and symptoms are getting more pronounced and I was thinking of titration but really couldn't figure it out, even with the many good explanations posted in the board.  I wish you had been my math teacher!

 

YAY!! :)  Thank you for taking the time to tell me that!  I feel like I actually made a difference today!  ;D

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Yeah, use it or lose it!  I need math for my work and that keeps me fresh.

 

If you can commit to understand ONE NUMBER AND WHAT IT MEANS I think that is really all it takes.  That number is solution strength.  To get it, DIVIDE the number of mg of your drug by the number of ml (volume) of liquid.  That's it!  That's the key number!

 

What does this number mean?  It is the amount of the drug contained in each 1ml of liquid.

 

So in your example...2mg valium tablet put into 100ml whole milk: divide 2mg by 100ml and you get .02.  This means that each ml contains .02mg.  So now, to get any dose of valium you just ask yourself, "if I need X amount of valium, how many ml's add up to that?"  For example, if you need 1.25mg valium it would take 62.5ml to add up to 1.25mg because each ml contains .02mg.

 

I hope this helps!  :)

 

Thanks SG, You have been patient with me since I first joined. Thank you!! I am kinda getting to see what you are saying. But what if I need the .625 like I do. I would use 1mg tablet of V and 100ml of liquid? 

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Thanks SG, You have been patient with me since I first joined. Thank you!! I am kinda getting to see what you are saying. But what if I need the .625 like I do. I would use 1mg tablet of V and 100ml of liquid?

 

No need!  Remember, from your 2mg in 100ml example, each 1ml milk contains .02mg of valium.  By dividing 2mg by 100ml you know the solution strength, so you know how much valium is in each 1ml of milk (.02).  So how many ml's are needed to add up to .625mg?  It would take 31.25ml.

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SG has done a really great job at explaining all this, but I just thought I would add something – to see if I can REALLY confuse you…lol….

 

I think if you are having trouble getting your head around the mathematics of it all, you would be best to stick with the 1ml=1mg principle. What I mean by that is that if you are going to use a 2mg tablet, then it would be much more straightforward initially for you to use it with 200ml of milk. That would mean that 2mg = 200ml OR 1mg = 100ml (so if you decide to split your 2mg tablet, this would also apply).

 

So once we know that 100ml of milk = 1mg, we also know that 1ml of milk = 0.01mg (1mg divided by 100 = 0.01mg).

 

So now to work out how much milk you would need for any dose, just work backwards, and multiply the number of mgs x 100.

 

So, if you want 1.25mg, just multiply by 100 = 125ml

 

If you want 0.625 x 100 = 62.5ml

 

0.75mg x 100 = 75ml

 

0.5mg x 100 = 50ml

 

0.25mg x 100 = 25ml

 

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Yes, 0.625 divided by 0.01 = 62.5ml is the same as what's in my post which is 0.625 x 100 = 62.5ml. It just depends on what one makes more sense to you.

 

The same with the 1.25mg.  Either 1.25 divided by 0.01 OR 1.25mg multiplied by 100 = 125ml

 

It's just best to stick to the basic 1mg=100ml or 2mg=200ml formula. Then you don't get confused.

 

 

 

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I understand how to get my .625 dose. I am going to have to hold that for a week and then go to 1.25. That is when I go to the 2mg and 200ml? I guess I don't understand how I get 125ml with 100ml liquid?
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Well, this is where you will be best off making the 200ml mixture with your 2mg tablet, which you mentioned above. So then all you will have to do is measure 125ml out of the 200ml, which will equal 1.25mg.
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