Ambien C/T?

Hi:

 

I didn't realize it, but I did not put this on my signature. Six weeks ago my doc put me on 12.5 mg of Ambien CR for sleep. No lectures pelase, I know I should have said no thanks. But I was so desperate to get some sleep that I took it. In his anger ysetrday, he told me to stop taking it all at once. Last night ws bad, 0 sleep, anxiety, pacing the floors allnight.  Shouldn't he have tapered off of it? Wasn't that a cruel thing to do? No pills no refills and no script. Betsy

Yes you need to taper off Ambien CR.

 

One way to do it is to switch over to "regular" Ambien, then start reducing it gradually. I can't believe (well I can) that he told you just to C/T off it.

 

Once you have switched to regular Ambien you can start breaking or cutting the pills up and reduce the amounts by, say, 25% every month. It will take you a few months to get off Ambien but you can do it. I did it this way. Or you can cut the pills by smaller amounts,

 

You cannot cut up Ambien CR so you will have to switch.

 

Just my experience. There are other ways to do it -- switching over to valium, for example but I am not familiar with them.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Okatz

Yes you need to taper off Ambien CR.

 

One way to do it is to switch over to "regular" Ambien, then start reducing it gradually. I can't believe (well I can) that he told you just to C/T off it.

 

Once you have switched to regular Ambien you can start breaking or cutting the pills up and reduce the amounts by, say, 25% every month. It will take you a few months to get off Ambien but you can do it. I did it this way. Or you can cut the pills by smaller amounts,

 

You cannot cut up Ambien CR so you will have to switch.

 

Just my experience. There are other ways to do it -- switching over to valium, for example but I am not familiar with them.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Okatz

 

 

He won't let me. I have to C/T off of the CR. Period. He won't give me regular ambien to cut, he won't let me cut at all. Just to drop it altogether. He's mean and is doing this just to punish me.  I wonder how long I'll have to go through withdrawal?

This is cruel and unusual punishment. I've never heard of anything like this. Will he not at least give you the 6.25 mg dose to taper down? And DON'T cut the 12.5 mg pills. They're enteric coated for a reason. Ask him again. Or explain things to your regular doctor and see if he/she won't help you out with a 10 mg generic (it will be generic) ambien script. This is nuts.

 

Okatz

How much clonazepam are you still taking? Because it's more potent and longer-acting, I would expect it to at least somewhat cover for the ambien withdrawal. Unfortunately, I can't give you much other advice, besides seeking the opinion of a second doctor if you do not have a constructive relationship with your current doc. :-(

Hiya BenzoGirl.  Your .25mg clonazepam cuts are each very approximately equivalent to 10mg Ambien (or 12.5mg Ambien CR).  Your clonazepam may be more significant than the Ambien.  (I can't work out from your sig what dose of clonazepam you're on and whether you are also taking diazepam or not.)

 

There is not a lot of difference between Ambien CR and ordinary Ambien.  The CR is supposed to last much longer but when I last compared the graphs of their dose time courses, there wasn't much real difference.

 

 

 

Hiya BenzoGirl.  Your .25mg clonazepam cuts are each very approximately equivalent to 5mg Ambien.  Your clonazepam may be more significant than the Ambien.  (I can't work out from your sig what dose of clonazepam you're on and whether you are also taking diazepam or not.)

 

There is not a lot of difference between Ambien CR and ordinary Ambien.  The CR is supposed to last much longer but when I last compared the graphs of their dose time courses, there wasn't much real difference.

 

Hi:

 

Thanks for responding, you and all the other BBers. Right now I am on 6.25 mg  of K and 20 mg of valium. I am just going to do my best and cut the pill in half. If it can't be cut, which is what people are saying, then I'll just have to tough it out and not take it. I don't know how long the withdrawal will last so if anyone knows, please chime in.

 

I texted my dpoc about my concerns and he refused to text me back. I think he's had it with me, I don't know why, but next week will probably be the last week I'll ever see him. I am sure he will drop me as a patient. My only concern is getting enuf K and valium to tide me over until I can find another doc. I have no refills coming. He doesn't do refills. I have to ask him every month to call in another script. Thanks, Betsy

This is cruel and unusual punishment. I've never heard of anything like this. Will he not at least give you the 6.25 mg dose to taper down? And DON'T cut the 12.5 mg pills. They're enteric coated for a reason. Ask him again. Or explain things to your regular doctor and see if he/she won't help you out with a 10 mg generic (it will be generic) ambien script. This is nuts.

 

Okatz

 

Okatz:

 

He won't even return my phone calls or texts. I guess I won't cut the pills, just as people have been saying. I only have two left anyway. I doubt he'll be my doctor as of next week. He'll definitely drop me as a patient.

Hi:

 

Just as an update, my doctor just texted me. He said I would not have any problems getting off the Ambien at all. He said I'll lose one or two hours of sleep for two nights and that's all. He refuses to script me anymore and assured me that I should not worry about anything. From reading the web, talking to BBers, and talking to the manufacturer, I know otherwise. But my hands are tied as I have no more pills except two, which won't do me a bit of good. It's either tonight or two nights from now. A big sigh here. I don't think I'll be seeing him anymore. It will be his choice; he doesn't like me, he told me so this week, and he never has. Thanks for all of your input. You BBers are really great folks to lean on. XXOOXX Betsy

Valium is often used for z-drug withdrawal. Since you are already on Valium perhaps upping the dose (or at the very least not cutting it for awhile) would be in order?

 

My personal opinion with z-drugs is that the withdrawal period doesn't need to be as long as with longer acting benzos. But it should still be a month or two.

 

The below quote references zopiclone but the same would apply to Ambien...

 

If zopiclone has been taken for more than a few weeks then the medication should be gradually reduced or preferably to cross over to an equivalent dose of diazepam (Valium), which has a much longer half-life, which makes withdrawal easier and then gradually taper their dosage over a period of several months in order to avoid extremely severe and unpleasant withdrawal symptoms (e.g., inner restlessness, psychomotor agitation, abdominal pain, hypertension, hallucinations, seizures, anxiety, depression, psychosis, etc.), which can last up to two years after withdraw if the withdrawal is done too abruptly.

 

 

Hiya BenzoGirl.  Your .25mg clonazepam cuts are each very approximately equivalent to 5mg Ambien.  Your clonazepam may be more significant than the Ambien.  (I can't work out from your sig what dose of clonazepam you're on and whether you are also taking diazepam or not.)

 

There is not a lot of difference between Ambien CR and ordinary Ambien.  The CR is supposed to last much longer but when I last compared the graphs of their dose time courses, there wasn't much real difference.

 

Hi:

 

Thanks for responding, you and all the other BBers. Right now I am on 6.25 mg  of K and 20 mg of valium. I am just going to do my best and cut the pill in half. If it can't be cut, which is what people are saying, then I'll just have to tough it out and not take it. I don't know how long the withdrawal will last so if anyone knows, please chime in.

 

Hiya Betsy.  If you check the Ashton equivalence table, your clonazepam dose is approximately equal to 240mg Ambien.  Your Ambien CR is likely to have a broadly similar potency to Ambien, so reducing by one tablet of Ambien CR is a relatively small cut.  In your case it is about equal to one of your clonazepam cuts.

 

If you are tapering it is better to take only one benzo, so losing the Ambien is a good step.  It seems your doc may not be so wrong after all.

 

 

Hiya:

 

Just as an update, I dropped the ambien for two nights now and I've experienced nothing more than restless nights. I wonder if when, any withdrawal might happen.Thanks, Betsy

Betsy, I think you will be fine. I got into this mess over ambien but I was taking it by itself and worked my way up to 40 mg a night. My ct from Ambien was hell on Earth! The doctor gave me 30 mg Valium to do a taper with which was way too high. Since you're already on K and V you should be good, maybe just hold on making any cuts for a couple of more weeks.

I hope this goes well for Betsy.  It's possible that the loss of her Ambien will not be any more difficult than one or her clonazepam cuts.  Of course when dropping the Ambien, the clonazepam should not also be reduced at the same time.  To make the loss of Ambien more gentle it may be an idea to do it in stages by reducing only half a tablet at first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hiya B :-)

I just sent a PM but also wanted to write it on here, in case it helps others.

 

I took ambien (10mg normal type) for years and then had a couple times this year, and probably last year too, where insurance or a computer error caused a problem.

 

I didn't want to drive to get it and I didn't want to pay $50 something for it.

Never had any problems.

 

I've heard enough to know that some people have problem going off it. I believe them.

This is one where I had no problem at all coming off.

Or possibly I just never gave it a thought and that helped too. :-)

 

i hope you're doing ok without Ambien. i am tapering off Ambien right now. I was taking 10mg Ambien and 6.25mg Ambien CR at bedtime, then usually i would take another 10mg of Ambien around 5am to get some more sleep, so i was up to 27mg a night. Plus i was also taking Lunesta 3mg at bedtime with the Ambien and CR.  In February, i tapered off the Lunesta in quarters. It was without stress, the Ambien covered for the Lunesta, so it was easy.  Now, i'm cutting down the Ambien. I started by cutting the morning dose down to 7mg from 10, and that's what i'm at now.  The bedtime doses are the same. I have not had any trouble cutting the Ambien from 10 to 7mg and am eager to move on to 5mg and then just to sleep without it.  It's cumbersome. 

 

I have taken Ambien for 20 years and Ambien CR for at least 10 years, or whenever it first came out.  In the past year, i've started cutting the Ambian CR with a pill cutter. I didn't cut it to taper it. I cut it because i was adding it in to what i was taking and i didn't feel the need to go with 12.5mg so i cut it in half. It works fine when cut.

 

Ambien has a very short half life and if you only take it at bedtime, then you go 24 hours while you're withdrawing from it until the next dose. Personally, i don't have any symptoms with that between doses, other than not sleeping. i went off Valium c/t in 1993 and those were withdrawal symptoms, i don't have anything like that with Ambien.  This week, twice, i simply did take the morning dose of Ambien because i wanted to try to sleep with out it, and that has been working out for me.  i seem to get enough sleep, just judging from how i feel. 

 

I agree with others who said that if you have other meds that are roughly equivalent to Ambien 10mg, then you can do a crossover to eliminate w/d symptoms. i don't know if i i would've had Lunesta w/d symptoms if i hadn't used the Ambien for sleep when i made each cut, taking a little extra Ambien but the withdrawal from Lunesta was painless (it's basically 7.5mg zopiclone). 

 

As for your doctor, you said it was his choice whether you stay with him or not.  Do you mean you don't have a choice, or do you mean you are getting something out of the relationship that makes it worth continuing instead of getting another doctor. The way you presented it here, it sounded like, "why stay with that guy, he's being disrespectful and not working together with you."  But you know more about it than what you said here probably. Maybe there are good things about him. 

 

btw, when i found that i wanted t get more Ambien than i could get from my doctor, i found an overseas pharmacy where i've gotten quality pharmaceutical Ambien, the price is not bad for what i need it for, i get the smallest amount, i just need some supplement. They have good customer support, good communication and give you tracking information for your shipment, and in my experiences, delivery is quick, about 7 or 8 days.