Valium/Diazepam Support Group

Hey Wiser

 

Yes I've tried cutting Citalopram too quickly and vertigo and nausea are the pits.

 

Whether you decide to taper the benzo or AD - cause you reinstate with something like citalopram at least a bit - first is going to be up to you. If it were me though and I was that non-functional though I'd probably do a reinstate for a future slower taper. But I'm no expert on SSRI tapers. And as you know it is so tricky - particularly once you sensitise yourself to changes by tapers - to find an AD that works/sits well with your body.

 

As for the valium addiction. Yea you are/were already dependant on benzos when you started taking the valium. You haven't gained much of an 'addiction' per se. It was there it is just you tried to stop taking the valium. If you'd tried to stop taking the oxazepam you would have got the same result. You could just taper the valium but you'll still be dependant on benzos and possibly with a sensitive CNS to benzo changes since you've tapered a bit you will be more likely to hit things like tolerance with your oxazepam etc. This is a benzo equivalent chart so you can see roughly how much benzo equivalent of valium you are on all up: http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm. It isn't all that much.

 

Good luck.

Acceptance is one of the hardest things early on. It is always hard. Today I had a cry because I don't want this crap for at least the next year probably 18 months-2 years. I want to get on with my life: have another child, earn more, maybe go to law school. But we are here so we get out of it best we can.

Take care

Smiff

I feel like this is going to take forever and my signature will fill an entire page by the time I'm done.

 

Been tapering V @ .0125 mg most of the past month. Tried .015 for a week and began feeling pretty bad, so returned to .0125. Is this really low for a daily cut?  Doesn't 4.1 to 3.75 mg in a month seem awfully slow?

 

I need a reality check or something.

 

Thanks. -utc

 

I'll probably be going this slow when down to your level. I don't like it one bit but I prefer that to the alternative: feeling benzo crap.

I feel like this is going to take forever and my signature will fill an entire page by the time I'm done.

 

Been tapering V @ .0125 mg most of the past month. Tried .015 for a week and began feeling pretty bad, so returned to .0125. Is this really low for a daily cut?  Doesn't 4.1 to 3.75 mg in a month seem awfully slow?

 

I need a reality check or something.

 

Thanks. -utc

 

under the covers,

 

I do understand the feeling!  I also feel it will take forever, wonder if this rate is 'too slow' etc.  But the truth is that the only barometer we have is our own body.  And they seem to be terribly good at telling us when we go too fast for them.  I've tapered at 0.005 (think that's right) up to 0.02 each dose and can really feel a difference if I'm 0.005 too much for me.  In truth I think I should probably be going slower than I am, but for other health reasons I do need off this as soon as I can.

 

I just want to say to trust the signals your body is giving you.  Know you'll get to that magical zero number when the time is right.  And know it's simply not worth rushing the process. 

 

Hang in there. 

 

T

 

Sorry to hear things have been rough for you, but I'm also pleased to hear that your dose is getting so low. Things are going well for me. The lower I get the more improvements I can see, but caution is still very much needed.

 

Fabulous to know that things are going well and getting better the lower you get.  Gosh this is a marathon, isn't it?  And a massive accomplishment to have lasted the distance and paced yourself.  Great to see you helping others out here - you have so much knowledge (which I'm sure you'd never have chosen) to share.

 

Hello etown.

 

I basically was in a very body sensitive and high anxiety state after a accidental ecstasy overdose, ad's didn't work as such so I started off on 2mg daily them when it didn't have a calming effect I had to up dose, apart from the odd extra tablet I have been on 30mg for around 2 years but now I just don't know what damage if any hopefully none is left from the overdose, how much is anxiety disorder and how much is tolerance to the valium as it's badly affecting my Health and all aspects of life.

 

Gra - your situation is very unique to me as most people cross over from a fast acting Benzo to Valium for the slow decent. Would you mind telling us how you got to 30mg from the start dose? Did you hit tolerance each time you added more Valium and then hit tolerance again and again?

etown

Hi Gra - I'm sure the OD and the constant updosing on Valium will not help the situation. I would be inclined to start with splitting  your dose in to 6 equal does of 5mg and spreading them out evenly during the day in hope that switching things up may help you stabilize. This should be fairly simple and won't make things worse only better if anything. I would give it 2-4 weeks and see how you feel. You will need to read back on this thread and ask questions and become Benzo wise if you aren't already. If you have a support person try get him/her/them to get Benzo wise also. Best to be prepared. You will also need to ask questions and get to know others on this thread to ensure your success. There is a lot of cumulative mistakes and good moves right here. Being a stranger to BB's won't help. That's what I did at higher doses a had a lot of catching up to do down the road.

etown

Thanks, folks. I know I'm doing a lot better than I was at this time last year. Just really resenting my life being run by this crap.  -utc

Guys,

 

Is there any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that catching a cold might cause benzo withdrawal symptom flare-up?

 

I ask because I started a nasty wave almost two weeks ago and the start of the wave was concurrent with getting a bad head cold. I'm frustrated to be suffering from some pretty significant anxiety at a point where I thought I would be more stabilized ... then it occurred to me that perhaps the cold might have been a factor?

 

Thx, Human

 

Hey guys,

 

Concerned got back to me on this question ... which I appreciate. I just wanted to see if anyone else had any thoughts on whether being sick could significantly exacerbate s/x.

 

I suspect it is just wishful thinking to think that my head cold had that much to do with extreme anxiety flare-up. I am on a three-day improvement trend now ... and I know I need to wait longer for more stabilization (or consider updosing if it gets really bad again). I'm just so bleeping frustrated to not be "stabiilzed" at a point where I was really hopeful I would be.

 

Thx, Human

Hello etown.

 

I was always told the maximum dose I would need per day was 2-3, it was actually my choice to split into 3 doses years ago to see if it helped me, the 6 dose idea is something I have never thought off, unfortunately I don't have a support person, my partner doesn't get my situation, I have 2 children and a job I need to hold so the smoother the taper the better as I feel like I can't cope as I stand.

 

Thanks for the info and I will be asking lots of questions and updating, as all I read/hear are extremely hard tapers that are long I need to read up more and mentally prepare myself.

 

Does anyone else think 6 daily doses is a right step, also 4 hours apart I take it, again thanks etown.

 

Hi Gra - I'm sure the OD and the constant updosing on Valium will not help the situation. I would be inclined to start with splitting  your dose in to 6 equal does of 5mg and spreading them out evenly during the day in hope that switching things up may help you stabilize. This should be fairly simple and won't make things worse only better if anything. I would give it 2-4 weeks and see how you feel. You will need to read back on this thread and ask questions and become Benzo wise if you aren't already. If you have a support person try get him/her/them to get Benzo wise also. Best to be prepared. You will also need to ask questions and get to know others on this thread to ensure your success. There is a lot of cumulative mistakes and good moves right here. Being a stranger to BB's won't help. That's what I did at higher doses a had a lot of catching up to do down the road.

etown

:You could just taper the valium but you'll still be dependant on benzos and possibly with a sensitive CNS to benzo changes since you've tapered a bit you will be more likely to hit things like tolerance with your oxazepam etc. This is a benzo equivalent chart so you can see roughly how much benzo equivalent of valium you are on all up: http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm. It isn't all that much.

 

Hi Smiff,      I'm so sorry that your life plans have to be put on hold while you get off these benzo's.  Why do the doctors give us this crap so readily?    While you are on this journey you are helping others - well done you!  Not much consolation I guess.   

 

Unfortunately my brain is in 'mash' mode from lexapro withdrawal.    Could convert serax to valium and taper it all at the same time but feel I might be pushing my luck.      If I were to tackle the serax would it mean taking 7.5mg valium at the usual time I took serax?    But then there's the day time 1 - 2 mg V to taper too.    Certainly there are plenty of people tapering 10mg V - but not during withdrawal from SSRI's.    Also you need to know if it's ok to be on an SSRI when pregnant?

Gra: Hi and Welcome. Hopefully we can help. Fortunately the brain is very plastic. It heals whether it is from an OD or from benzo dependence. I dose 3 times daily but I do so evenly across the day - 8 hours apart. It might help to make it even? It may help to split doses further. It shouldn't hurt and it is worth a try from where you are now. In any case it is a good thing you are ready to get off the tolerance/updosing roundabout. You can get off it. It takes time and isn't completely pain free but it can be done and clearly valium use isn't the answer. You may also want to look on the anxiety thread since that seems to be your major problem at the moment. Things like using vitamin C, exercise and meditation may sound obvious an not very efficacious but they do help.

Good luck

 

Human: I've been sick lately and I have felt benzo worse too. I don't know if they are connected. Certainly when you feel sick you feel crapper in general, and you are less active, so it could play a role in Benzo w/d/

 

Concerned: Yes I think 0.004mg reduction was too much.

Getting rid of the supps and particularly the anti-asthma meds though has made the biggest difference.

Hi Smiff,      I'm so sorry that your life plans have to be put on hold while you get off these benzo's.  Why do the doctors give us this crap so readily?    While you are on this journey you are helping others - well done you!  Not much consolation I guess.   

 

Unfortunately my brain is in 'mash' mode from lexapro withdrawal.    Could convert serax to valium and taper it all at the same time but feel I might be pushing my luck.      If I were to tackle the serax would it mean taking 7.5mg valium at the usual time I took serax?    But then there's the day time 1 - 2 mg V to taper too.    Certainly there are plenty of people tapering 10mg V - but not during withdrawal from SSRI's.    Also you need to know if it's ok to be on an SSRI when pregnant?

 

Why do Drs give it to us? Because they don't get it (or at least too many don't). In ten years or so Benzos won't be as prevalent.

 

I think it is perfectly reasonable to wait till you are out of SSRI withdrawal before you withdraw your benzos. When you do want to taper your benzos: yes if you switched all to Valium you'd probably be switching 7.5mg at night and 2 mgs in the day. Maybe up to 10mg all up to be safe. You may have been in tolerance w/d for a while hence the anxiety that nothing was fixing. Until then I'm not sure there is much point trying to taper the valium alone: you'll just end up being in benzo w/d, but still using - with the serax - which is never going to end well or help you settle post SSRI withdrawal.

 

SSRIs are category C during pregnancy: not known to be safe but not known to be harmful. Citalopram is one of the most acceptable ones. My sister is a midwife and as she has said - and as you know virtually every third person is on an SSRI - so there wouldn't be many babies if you didn't take them during pregnancy. Benzos are a different story though and are proven to cause foetal malformation. Still I'll get to a low dose of citalopram. I haven't time to fully safely withdraw off all of it after this benzo withdrawal: my body clock is ticking.

Human being sick can make w/d worsefrom my exp and reading exp of others.

etown

Smiff, I think you meant .04 daily reduction and not .004. In any case, I am till holding at 7.5 and next week I will reduce by .02 and possibly .03. I will see how it goes. I take antihistamines and supplements. I take antihistamines daily( over the counter, allegra) which I thick is ok? Which supplements did you get rid of that made the most difference?

 

Gra, I take the Diazepam more then 2 times a day. I usually take it 4-5 times a day as needed as long as I don't go over my limit as my body is used to taking 4 doses a day from Ativan and it seems to do better on more frequent smaller doses then 2 or 3 steady doses. I doN't know why, however I am not questioning it, just following it.

 

Wisernow, I think stabilizing on the SSRI is a priority so you can feel better. Once you do, you can tackle the valium, Serax taper. They are both a benzo so it is easier to crossover to valium from Serax and split the doses during the taper. You just need to determine the equivalency. For now, I would focus on the AD so you can feel better, stay on that and then move to the benzo taper. it is up to you as to what order you do it in however each one needs to be addressed separately for sure.

 

Gra - If you are not stable and want a nice smooth taper you will have to try many things to make this happen. Dosing 6x per day is no different than 3 x really. It may even out the symptoms and get you stable so you canstart your taper which is the most important thing right now.

etown

Guys,

 

Is there any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that catching a cold might cause benzo withdrawal symptom flare-up?

 

I ask because I started a nasty wave almost two weeks ago and the start of the wave was concurrent with getting a bad head cold. I'm frustrated to be suffering from some pretty significant anxiety at a point where I thought I would be more stabilized ... then it occurred to me that perhaps the cold might have been a factor?

 

Thx, Human

 

Hey guys,

 

Concerned got back to me on this question ... which I appreciate. I just wanted to see if anyone else had any thoughts on whether being sick could significantly exacerbate s/x.

 

I suspect it is just wishful thinking to think that my head cold had that much to do with extreme anxiety flare-up. I am on a three-day improvement trend now ... and I know I need to wait longer for more stabilization (or consider updosing if it gets really bad again). I'm just so bleeping frustrated to not be "stabiilzed" at a point where I was really hopeful I would be.

 

Thx, Human

 

From what I've read, any kind of stress can make withdrawal worse.  I'd say a cold would qualify. 

 

I know how frustrating it all is and I wish there were easier answers and that we could all get there in the time we wanted to, and that it all went to plan.  It WILL pass.  Hope you feel better soon.

Hi all,

 

Hope everyone is feeling well.

 

After losing 20lbs. in tolerance w/d and detox, I now have regained to the point of not fitting into my clothes and buying a new wardrobe is definitely not do-able. I need to lose a good 5-10 lbs.

 

I'm just wondering what everyone's take is on trying to lose weight while tapering? I am otherwise asymptomatic at this point.

 

TIA,

 

Workin

Hi all,

 

Hope everyone is feeling well.

 

After losing 20lbs. in tolerance w/d and detox, I now have regained to the point of not fitting into my clothes and buying a new wardrobe is definitely not do-able. I need to lose a good 5-10 lbs.

 

I'm just wondering what everyone's take is on trying to lose weight while tapering? I am otherwise asymptomatic at this point.

 

TIA,

 

Workin

You can lose fat while keeping your lean body mass intact using a lowcarb diet.

Most people can't handle going without carbs.

Smiff, I think you meant .04 daily reduction and not .004. In any case, I am till holding at 7.5 and next week I will reduce by .02 and possibly .03. I will see how it goes. I take antihistamines and supplements. I take antihistamines daily( over the counter, allegra) which I thick is ok? Which supplements did you get rid of that made the most difference?

 

Hey Concerned

I've quit all my supplements for now. I'll return to some but making sure to factor in a bit more moderation and breaks. I think breaks with these things are important. Peperine was like the wonder drug and then played a role in the breathing and odd w/ds which is why I am a bit scared to try that again in future. My other supps are pretty harmless and I'll take them but like I said factor in weekly breaks.

 

The jury is out a bit for me on the non-drowsy antihistamines with fexofenadine.

Placebo trials had some people reporting side effects of anxiety and insomnia with it. But apparently those side effects were reported equally with placebo. The FDA has had a couple hundred complaints of diazepam and fexofenadine use together with anxiety being a big complaint. But then diazepam users are hardly ever going to be in a stable place where you can legitimately judge whether anxiety is the effect of another drug or not.

In general though, given that, I'll try to stick to the drowsy anti-histamines at night (I need anti-histamines for there anti-histamine action as well as sleep). They have lots of problems too. Doxy seems to be the safest.

 

As for anti-asthma meds I might do another big post on this just because I've been a good human guinea pig the last few days. From my experience and what I've read most people in withdrawal should TRY to steer clear from any Beta2-adrergic-agonists. This is the ingredient in all of these

Short-acting beta2 agonists[edit]

generic name (Trade Name)

salbutamol (albuterol (US name), Ventolin)

levosalbutamol (levalbuterol (US name), Xopenex)

terbutaline (Bricanyl)

pirbuterol (Maxair)

procaterol

clenbuterol

metaproterenol (Alupent)

fenoterol

bitolterol mesylate

ritodrine

isoprenaline

Long-acting beta2 agonists[edit]

salmeterol (Serevent Diskus)

formoterol (Foradil, Symbicort)

bambuterol

clenbuterol

Ultra-long-acting beta2 agonists[edit]

indacaterol

Side effects for these do include anxiety and insomnia. And I've felt it recently when I've taken them. Now if you have serious asthma you can't stop taking this stuff. But it is worth exploring other options slowly with Drs supervision and advice. Cortico-steroids are asthma preventers but again I'm not sure they are great in withdrawal. They also have anxiety and insomnia as part of their possible steroids. The stuff I'll try is this: Sodium cromoglycate/nedocromil sodium. One of the only asthma treatments that doesn't list anxiety and insomnia as a possible side effect. We'll see. I'll write my experiences with that on an 'other medication' thread so anyone with asthma or bronchial infections or breathing problems can have a looksee. Since benzos are respiratory depresses they make us more susceptible to all of the above conditions so it would be nice to have something that gives relief but doesn't cause problems (possibly too much to ask  )

 

 

The upshot is you REALLY can't get something for nothing in a pill. It is absolutely totally true that if it does anything to you it has a chance of having an unwanted side effect, reaction or creating a problem. That is true for anything that does anything in your body whether it is as simple as sugar or as complex as diazepam.

 

Hope that helps Concerned

We'll start descending again soon and both a little slower me thinks

 

Peace

Smiff

Hi all,

 

Hope everyone is feeling well.

 

After losing 20lbs. in tolerance w/d and detox, I now have regained to the point of not fitting into my clothes and buying a new wardrobe is definitely not do-able. I need to lose a good 5-10 lbs.

 

I'm just wondering what everyone's take is on trying to lose weight while tapering? I am otherwise asymptomatic at this point.

 

TIA,

 

Workin

 

I've been a human guinea pig lately on this too!! Post christmas I decided I wanted to lose some weight so restricted calories, carbs and hit hot yoga hard. Well my experience: withdrawal makes you more susceptible to body stresses so you have to take these things more easy then usual. Drop the calories, carbs and do exercise but you can't push your body as hard as you can outside withdrawal. Certainly can still be done though. You know when they talk about 'healthier but slower' ways of losing weight: yes well that is probably what you can do without overly stressing your body and getting some w/d kick back.

 

Hope that helps

love

Smiff

Hey smiff stupid question is hot yoga when you do yoga and sweat a lot?

etown

I would go easy with the low carbs, especially being a female, females tend to fare worse with low carbs. Benzo withdrawal often causes hypoglycemia or blood sugar problems (I have gotten them myself, pretty bad) and low carbs while great for weight/water loss is not such a great idea in withdrawal. It will indeed cause stress as mentioned and make withdrawal worse. I made this mistake over a year ago after gaining weight from psych drugs and doing cold turkey. I was not experiencing withdrawal too bad but cutting carbs plunged me into hell. Adrenals are taxed already and low carb is basically like throwing them on the ground and stomping on them. My adrenals never fully recovered, but that is due to many other factors, though the no carb thing certainly did a number. I still can't do it to this day. Sad because it was effective.

Hi all,

 

Hope everyone is feeling well.

 

After losing 20lbs. in tolerance w/d and detox, I now have regained to the point of not fitting into my clothes and buying a new wardrobe is definitely not do-able. I need to lose a good 5-10 lbs.

 

I'm just wondering what everyone's take is on trying to lose weight while tapering? I am otherwise asymptomatic at this point.

 

TIA,

 

Workin

You can lose fat while keeping your lean body mass intact using a lowcarb diet.

Most people can't handle going without carbs.

 

Interesting stuff about diets:

Ketonic diets - super high protein and low carb - reduces epilepsy and possibly glutamate.

However low protein diets may increase GABA (not a very scientific thing but I couldn't be bothered looking hard: http://www.paleoforwomen.com/protein-cortisol-and-gaba-why-moderating-protein-reduces-anxiety-and-lengthens-life/).

ANDD protein and fats produce more of a particular amino acid (which I can't be stuffed finding again) which is associated with anxiety.

 

Sooo again: all is thoroughly complex and all in moderation

Hi all,

 

Hope everyone is feeling well.

 

After losing 20lbs. in tolerance w/d and detox, I now have regained to the point of not fitting into my clothes and buying a new wardrobe is definitely not do-able. I need to lose a good 5-10 lbs.

 

I'm just wondering what everyone's take is on trying to lose weight while tapering? I am otherwise asymptomatic at this point.

 

TIA,

 

Workin

You can lose fat while keeping your lean body mass intact using a lowcarb diet.

Most people can't handle going without carbs.

 

Interesting stuff about diets:

Ketonic diets - super high protein and low carb - reduces epilepsy and possibly glutamate.

However low protein diets may increase GABA (not a very scientific thing but I couldn't be bothered looking hard: http://www.paleoforwomen.com/protein-cortisol-and-gaba-why-moderating-protein-reduces-anxiety-and-lengthens-life/).

ANDD protein and fats produce more of a particular amino acid (which I can't be stuffed finding again) which is associated with anxiety.

 

Sooo again: all is thoroughly complex and all in moderation

Lowcarb is NOT high protein.

It is High FAT.

If the body doesn't intake fat and protein it will die.

If it does not intake carbohydrate, it will not die and there is no known disease from lack of carbohydrate intake.

The liver makes sugar from proteins.

sugar feeds diseases.

Hey smiff stupid question is hot yoga when you do yoga and sweat a lot?

etown

 

ha. umm yup.

I do Bikram Yoga which is the same 26 Hatha yoga postures, plus 2 breathing exercises, done in 40 degree heat with 40% humidity over 1 hour 30 mins.

I can't do it every day - as much as I could pre-withdrawal; I think due to hormones and their relationship to benzo w/d -  but I have to do it regularly during withdrawal for wellbeing.

FYI: Back bends are AWESOME for treating and preventing anxiety. However don't run off and hurt yourself and do backbends without a trained yoga teacher with you. And/or you could just twice daily put your hands on your lower back and hang your head back and lean back a teeny tiny amount. Even that small opening of that chest area helps.