How is it possible Matt Samet had a setback???

My bad meant to put this here...

He was off for 7 years. Had been healed for a few years. Was eating chocolate covered espresso beans and drinking quad espressos. Also climbing and working. I read he drank a beer a night. Ate plent of sugar. Etc... My point is that sounds like a nervous system that is strong and maybe stronger than a lot of non benzo people. How could a nervous system that strong go back into w/d 100%? He said 100% back in w/d.

Not sure who or what this is about and first I am sorry that he is back in 'withdrawal" and if I don't have all the facts.  Would never wish that on anyone.  However, the lifestyle and diet is a prescription for disaster for almost anyone, not just those of us that have been through this.  In lines with what Fonz said, I bet had this person never been on benzos in the first place, he would be going through something very similar and it would be labeled GAD, or SAD or manic or something.  I wouldn't fear or worry that because he slipped back after 7 years that we are all doomed.  I think it needs to be a lesson to be kind to your body and treat it right.

(again, no offense to anyone and I do feel bad for the guy)

I have a guess. A guess is all it is, so please don't jump on me. It is possible that his relapse was not what he says it was. He might have an underlying condition that led to his initial benzo use, and has now reared its ugly head again.

He would have us believe that his healed nervous system was so fragile that seven years of abuse crashed it again. That;s a possibility, but I can think of other things that might also explain it.

Obviously I don't know. But why should we all get freaked out and worried that we will never truly recover 100% and will always have this hanging over our heads if we drink too much coffee? As long as it's possible that his problem was not simply a return to withdrawal seven years later, why should we worry about it?

I don't think Matt Samet did the benzo community any favors by scaring the hell out of us. As long as there are other possibilities, I choose to ignore Matt Samet's claim that we never really recover from benzo use. On average, I'm sure we are not all like Matt Samet.

He was really abusing his body and ignoring his body's signals to slow down. As has been said, even those who had never been on benzos would have had a reaction. No one can afford to do what he was doing and get away with it. Who knows, maybe our CNS are sensitized to some extent for a prolonged period but I would think very few of us who have been through benzo withdrawal would go as far as he did to test the limits of our bodies. We have become very accustomed to listening to our bodies. I suspect that's something we will continue to do for the rest of our lives.

Yikes. As I read his comments I think I'd be feeling pretty crappy even in my pre-benzo days.

chocolate covered espresso beans???

yep, are confections made by coating roasted coffee beans in some kind of chocolate.

you  get it in Europe with your espresso served.

I feel like what he's describing here is something that a lot of people experience with zero benzo history, in which case it gets written off as a "nervous breakdown" or a "midlife crisis".

It makes sense to me that someone who had previously experienced benzo w/d would experience a later crises in those terms; after all, in any state of severe stress, the same chemicals will be released, and the same kind of HP axis confusion will manifest. Maybe I'm being cynical, but I don't see any reason to assume this has anything to do with prior drug use, with the caveat that having the background with drug-produced anxiety states creates a fulfilling prophecy for how those states are experienced.

There's nothing to fear here. That is, I'm very confident that I will experience more anxiety, worry, muscle tension, etc at various points in my life. I believe that's normal and not anything to be frightened of.

I have a guess. A guess is all it is, so please don't jump on me. It is possible that his relapse was not what he says it was. He might have an underlying condition that led to his initial benzo use, and has now reared its ugly head again.

 

He would have us believe that his healed nervous system was so fragile that seven years of abuse crashed it again. That;s a possibility, but I can think of other things that might also explain it.

 

Obviously I don't know. But why should we all get freaked out and worried that we will never truly recover 100% and will always have this hanging over our heads if we drink too much coffee? As long as it's possible that his problem was not simply a return to withdrawal seven years later, why should we worry about it?

 

I don't think Matt Samet did the benzo community any favors by scaring the hell out of us. As long as there are other possibilities, I choose to ignore Matt Samet's claim that we never really recover from benzo use. On average, I'm sure we are not all like Matt Samet.

I completely agree. I read his book and he seems like quite the drama queen.

I liked his book, thought it was well-written. I also like the kind of person he portrays himself to be. I don't know him personally, but his portrayal is of someone that has a lot of passion in what they do.

He suffered panic attacks before being put on benzos from not eating right. I was told my a mutual friend that he had a setback before his posting on madinamerica. Summary of his story, pre-setback, here:

The thing I have a problem with and most nobody here has mentioned, isn't w/d a totally different and distinguishable problem? I've had anxiety and panic attacks prior. What I'm feeling now is certainly not that. This is far worse than anything I could have imagined and I think I would know the difference of having anxiety, stress and worry with some muscle aches and actually falling back into wd (if I get out).

Also, the things he did wouldn't send anyone else into a w/d type state. Yes, they would feel anxiety (possibly get a "disorder"), get depression and other crap, but w/d? I find it hard to believe anyone here thinks they can experience this w/d from benzos without ever taking one. Maybe I'm having a different experience though.

The thing I have a problem with and most nobody here has mentioned, isn't w/d a totally different and distinguishable problem? I've had anxiety and panic attacks prior. What I'm feeling now is certainly not that. This is far worse than anything I could have imagined and I think I would know the difference of having anxiety, stress and worry with some muscle aches and actually falling back into wd (if I get out).

For me it is, and from what I have read it sounds like Matt has a pretty good idea of what is being caused by benzo wd as well.

In my case it's a matter of "if you have it, you will know" Yea, I have little things that I can't necessarily blame on the benzo but when I get hit with a wave there is no doubt in my mind what it is. I'm sure others have a different experience because if you felt what I feel relative to the way I was pre benzo, there would be no question.

Also, the things he did wouldn't send anyone else into a w/d type state. Yes, they would feel anxiety (possibly get a "disorder"), get depression and other crap, but w/d? I find it hard to believe anyone here thinks they can experience this w/d from benzos without ever taking one. Maybe I'm having a different experience though.

I was hesitant to post anything like this but since you brought it up, I agree 100%.

Normal people can get away with drinking caffeine and alcohol and sugar and missing sleep without getting sick but a serious benzo dependency causes major changes that can take a long time to reverse so I don't doubt that someone could have a flareup down the road.

Bottom line is that we have to be careful even when we feel like we are healed because chances are our bodies are going to be sensitive for quite some time. No one wants to believe that when you start feeling better that you could get hit again months or years down the road but due to the nature of this I don't see how that is any kind of a stretch. Personally a couple of months of feeling like crap again down the road seems like a small price to pay for becoming functional again. It would suck and I would probably be complaining but at the end of the day I would have to be thankful for the good and take the bad in stride.

No one wants to believe that when you start feeling better that you could get hit again months or years down the road but due to the nature of this I don't see how that is any kind of a stretch.

If I could look several years down the road with certainty, I know I'd see all kinds of horrid, sad things mixed in which would probably just make me anxious to know about. What I mean is, no one gets out of this alive, and we're all going to go through misery of one kind or another before the end, but it seems like the people who are the least aware of that in the moment-to-moment sense are the happiest.

Normal people can get away with drinking caffeine and alcohol and sugar...

It is really tough to draw conclusions that apply to everyone. The human machine is just sooo complicated.

I was always prone to panic attacks (even before benzos) so stimulants always set me off. I once went to the hospital with a panic attack after taking a diet pill. Maybe normal people also get palps from diet pills, but they don't have an imaginary heart attack. So I'm not normal people because I can't even drink coffee. But my problem predates my benzo use.

Valium stopped my panic attacks, but after a while caused depression. When I tapered, the depression left but the panic attacks started again. Is it better to be depressed or have panic attacks?  CBT is helping with the panic attacks. If CBT works i guess that's better than taking Valium.

It is really tough to draw conclusions that apply to everyone. The human machine is just sooo complicated.

What I meant was people who are not predisposed to those sorts of things. If you do have a problem with that, of course you shouldn't expect it to be much different after you get through wd. I am talking about people who never had an issue with that before. I can see how our systems could be sensitized to the point where we do have to avoid that kind of stuff for awhile even if we think we are healed when that would never have been an issue had we not taken benzos.

maybe hes crazy

maybe hes a hypochondriac

maybe he wants to write a new best seller, with new info no ones ever stated before....

maybe he had a relapse

Like I said earlier, the panic attacks I've had pre-benzo's are nowhere near as intense as I have during this taper. It's on a whole new level, bordering insanity. My anxiety and panic before benzo's didn't stop me from living. I drove, I traveled, I worked and love it and I was happy.  I was passionate about what I was doing and the anxiety was something I was dealing with. When unknowingly given a benzo by a doctor and told they were harmless, of course. I thought, this is great..I won't be bothered by that anymore.

Well, of course like the rest of us, if I only knew. This is on a whole new level and I would give anything to go back to pre-benzo anxiety.

Some of Matt's thoughts on his wd:

"It felt like I was being flagellated from within by a million little demons in my body and in my head and it went on forever."

"When all your feeling is chemical terror and you're simply scared of existing"

"If you think this chemical terror your feeling is your underlying baseline state, it drives people to suicide"

Personally, I can totally relate to all of these statements. My prior anxiety "disorder" was a walk in the park in comparison to what I'm feeling right now.

I don't want to believe wd can last so long and I don't think we should harp on this idea that it could, but I think he knows the difference.

From what I heard from a mutual friend is that he is doing pretty well now and it wasn't as bad as acute.

Like I said earlier, the panic attacks I've had pre-benzo's are nowhere near as intense as I have during this taper. It's on a whole new level, bordering insanity. My anxiety and panic before benzo's didn't stop me from living. I drove, I traveled, I worked and love it and I was happy.  I was passionate about what I was doing and the anxiety was something I was dealing with. When unknowingly given a benzo by a doctor and told they were harmless, of course. I thought, this is great..I won't be bothered by that anymore.

 

Well, of course like the rest of us, if I only knew. This is on a whole new level and I would give anything to go back to pre-benzo anxiety.

 

Some of Matt's thoughts on his wd:

 

"It felt like I was being flagellated from within by a million little demons in my body and in my head and it went on forever."

"When all your feeling is chemical terror and you're simply scared of existing"

"If you think this chemical terror your feeling is your underlying baseline state, it drives people to suicide"

 

Personally, I can totally relate to all of these statements. My prior anxiety "disorder" was a walk in the park in comparison to what I'm feeling right now.

 

I don't want to believe wd can last so long and I don't think we should harp on this idea that it could, but I think he knows the difference.

 

From what I heard from a mutual friend is that he is doing pretty well now and it wasn't as bad as acute.

Agree 100%

I lived, now I am not

I didn't read his book but I did listen to a long interview he did. I think he has a good head on this shoulders and at his age I think he is able to judge whether or not this feels like withdrawal or not. He said it feels like withdrawal and so I don't doubt that. If he is sensitive to depression or other anxiety issues then he likely had those issues through out his life and knows the difference between that and withdrawal.

I don't find it all that surprising he had a set back. I felt okay for a couple months and then I had a set back. Other people move in and out of it in a similar pattern.  The good news is that he will move out of it again. The bad is that this obviously needs more study and understanding. It's sad to think it's possible to experience set backs so far out but maybe it had something to do with how bad he had it coming off.

I do not agree that his eating habits in anyway would set a normal person up to feel something akin to withdrawal. Many people live and eat the way he describes. Most people don't have benzo withdrawal type experiences as a result of that habit.

I am somehow skeptical of triggers such as sugar and caffeine causing withdrawal symptoms in general. I think set backs are more random and chemical in nature. That would be my only hesitation with what he posted otherwise I don't doubt what he's experiencing or the likelihood.

eating coffee beans, really? He might as well had sprinkled them with powdered sweetened benzos

I can't tell if this is a serious comment or not, but I assure you that I eat coffee beans on a regular basis They are delicious.

What creates a setback?

I can't live life without exercise or being passionate