Withdrawal at 29 months microtapering.

Well, this is all a bit of a confusing mess.

 

I started micro tapering 29 months ago and I am now down to almost 2.9 mg Valium equivalent.

 

I am so much better than the first year and the second, I absolutely do feel better but there is still problems with the withdrawal process.

 

I have had to constantly make smaller and smaller cuts throughout my taper in order to keep symptoms manageable, the problem now is that my cut size is so small that this is taking forever now.

 

Often I think I should just make a bigger cut and ride it out but after 22+ years use, I think it would be most unwise.

 

So far I have managed to get to the point without the use of an anti-depressant, although I do take a very low dose of propranolol (10mg) which is a beta blocker which has helped with heart palpitations.

 

My last cut was over just 3 days and by day 5 of holding, I felt pretty terrible for a good week (compared to the usual 4 days) and it seemed to take me longer to stabilize.

 

See the following as how I feel now after 29 months:

 

1) When feeling stable after holding, I am virtually symptom free, mind is clear, no inner vibrations, tinnitus is very low or even absent, no body aches as such, fatigue improves, anxiety is either extremely low or absent, during this time I could say I am 85% healed.

 

2) When feeling the effects of cuts, I feel unable to think, anxiety returns and can often border on terror if the cuts went badly, inner vibrations in legs, feel extremely restless, restless legs at night, sweating, tinnitus increases, often feel unable to cope with any stimuli at all (including music and TV), GI issues return (always), generally feel derealization and perspective of life in general is extremely off.

 

In other words, it is like being on a bad trip mentally, feelings of fear mixed with a temporary feeling of dementia and an inability to THINK which can be quite distressing.

 

Now, I had hoped to feel better and better as I got lower in dose and yes, in many ways I do feel better WHEN I STABILIZE, yet when I am feeling cuts, it is actually harder in some ways.

 

It is so hard to explain this because I have lost many symptoms and I feel I have healed on a certain level, yet when I am feeling bad it feels like I have hardly healed at all.

 

The ONLY thing these small cuts seem to afford me is the ability to get stable within 2-3 weeks, yes, even my holds are longer now, which basically means that in order to get off this drug in a semi comfortable manner, it will take me years.

 

I wish I could cut bigger but if I can feel so much dread and anxiety from the smallest cuts, how the hell would I feel if I cut more?

 

I have not tapered for 29 months to go and feel terrible for weeks or months on end... that just makes no sense, yet my healing rate seems to be impossibly slow.

 

So, I am caught in a catch 22 situation... I suffer with cuts anyway and this is taking a long, long time, yet the alternative would be to speed it up and suffer more but get down in dose faster... yet that's not going to happen.

 

I am simply NOT prepared to put myself through weeks of terror simply to speed this up as that could result in a complete meltdown, or the need to go back up in dose, it's just completely counter productive, for me, going forward has always only been possible if I take my time...

 

I am so much better but I am far from the stage where I feel I have sufficient quality of life, I think I will need to taper for another year to start feeling some more healing... if this is better than year 1 and 2, then surely by year 3 this should, at some point, start to get easier.

 

It's looking pretty likely that it will take me a good few years to finish this taper... possibly even longer...

 

Could I jump tomorrow? Yes, probably but I think I would go completely insane for a few months and then after that it would more than likely take me 2-3 years to recover... either way, tapering or jumping, I am still in this for a very long time to come.

 

Total taper at this rate from the beginning is likely to be 7 years at least.

 

I have almost considered reinstating, it's a huge thing to accept that this is going to go on for another few years before this is likely to even start getting better, what is more discouraging is how quite a few say healing does not start until the taper is actually over, others say they did heal on the way down...

 

Seems benzo people cannot even agree on that but some feel better before zero, some feel better at zero and others do not feel better for quite sometime post zero... it all depends on how we get there I suppose.

 

So, acceptance that this is a multi-year process... healing is being felt but it is only seen over periods of a few months now... it is extremely slow but I do feel it is happening... my baseline is better, I no longer live in a perpetual benzo fog, my mind is clearer so that has to be healing but never in a million years did I bargain for this taking years... I thought this would start to get easier but sadly, I am not at that point yet, I hear for many it gets better below 2 mgs... I really hope and pray it is the same for me. 7 years plus to get off this drug is a huge sacrifice and had I known any of this, I surely would not have attempted this...

 

A positive, if there is one, is that my mind is waking up quite rapidly now, which is probably why I have had to really slow things down.

 

If this DOES get better by 2 mgs and I can pick up the pace a little, or if life is better by then, then I will be able to say that all the patience has been worth it but rather frustratingly, the terrible anxiety still renders me virtually non functional after cuts and until that starts to ease up, I'll wonder if I am dragging this out needlessly... yet the alternative doesn't even bear thinking about... the ONLY way I am ever going to do this is by going slow, no matter how long it takes.

 

 

 

 

I guess it will be worth it in the end... and if I need to take a break at any time, I can do and that is somewhat comforting as usually I feel pretty good when I do get stable... so, it is just a life process, it is what it is but I thought I would be coasting along by now... I was wrong... it has never been more necessary to taper slow and use longer holds but no doubt I will get there one day... I just hope it gets considerably easier a year from now, even the worst CT cases can heal within 3-4 years so, in theory, tapering for that amount of time should put a dent in this... I live in hope anyway.

 

 

makes all sense to me Oscar and i can see you are listening to your body and thats the

way to do it.

i am a bad detox case , so when this is over for me we shall be able to compare

the time it took for me. if it wasn't such a waste of time , i would even consider it

to be quite interesting from a medical point of view.

ciao and take care.

makes all sense to me Oscar and i can see you are listening to your body and thats the

way to do it.

i am a bad detox case , so when this is over for me we shall be able to compare

the time it took for me. if it wasn't such a waste of time , i would even consider it

to be quite interesting from a medical point of view.

ciao and take care.

 

The thing is Morroweg is that I can get stable again and when I do, I feel pretty good these days, the downside of course is that I have to keep going back to the cuts and I seem to really feel them... sometimes when in the thick of it the anxiety can be almost intolerable sometimes, yet it passes, I cannot reason with it or even find any positive, for those few days to a week, I simply have to hold on and wait it out and gradually my brain starts to clear again... I know if I even slightly increased my cuts, I would not only feel so much worse but it would also undoubtedly take me longer to get stable again.

 

Sometimes I think I could just stay at this dose and not go through any more of this crap but I do feel better the lower I get and I know that this will pay off, it's just an extremely long road yet I do think a year from now I will be feeling an even more solid baseline and maybe some good will come from that, everything that starts also ends and this cannot be any different, this also has to get better at some point and eventually end also... I consider 29 months a good chunk of time at this but I suspect I need to put in another year to really start feeling some solid healing, in a way it has already started so that is a good sign... but anything over 40 months at this has to make a big difference, maybe things will really start to lift by then and I may be able to finish up a little earlier but I suspect only by a little... I don't care as long as I feel some lessening of the anxiety as I get lower, if there is no change by 2 mgs and below, I will be pretty disappointed but I think it will happen.

 

You'll get there Morrow, we all will. 

Hi oscar,

 

I know I've told you this before, but I felt just as terrible and overwhelmed as you do when I was at ~2.9mg.

 

The last few MG can be pretty rough, and I don't think it's reasonable for everyone to expect to 'stabilize' on such low doses. If that's what I'd waited for, I never would have gotten off. Think of it this way, if we could be 'stable' at such low doses, we never would have needed to be on higher doses to start with!

 

The doses you are down to are so small that it's very difficult to understand the interplay of physiology and psychology. At some point you're just going to have to take a leap of faith :-/ When I stepped off I was pretty worried that I was going to be broken, that I was deriving therapeutic benefit from the tiny dose of valium I was on, etc. None of that was true, and once I managed to stay off the benzos entirely for about 2 months, I quickly decided I was feeling much better than I had at any point since I'd tapered under 4mg.

 

I know it is very scary to think about being off of benzos entirely after being on them for so long, but you can do this! Whatever speed you decide to taper at, I hope it works out for you, and I hope you can get off and start to get some real recovery soon

 

 

Hi oscar,

 

I know I've told you this before, but I felt just as terrible and overwhelmed as you do when I was at ~2.9mg.

 

The last few MG can be pretty rough, and I don't think it's reasonable for everyone to expect to 'stabilize' on such low doses. If that's what I'd waited for, I never would have gotten off. Think of it this way, if we could be 'stable' at such low doses, we never would have needed to be on higher doses to start with!

 

The doses you are down to are so small that it's very difficult to understand the interplay of physiology and psychology. At some point you're just going to have to take a leap of faith :-/ When I stepped off I was pretty worried that I was going to be broken, that I was deriving therapeutic benefit from the tiny dose of valium I was on, etc. None of that was true, and once I managed to stay off the benzos entirely for about 2 months, I quickly decided I was feeling much better than I had at any point since I'd tapered under 4mg.

 

I know it is very scary to think about being off of benzos entirely after being on them for so long, but you can do this! Whatever speed you decide to taper at, I hope it works out for you, and I hope you can get off and start to get some real recovery soon

 

Hey Spengler,

 

Well, the situation here is that I do in fact get pretty stable, in as much as inner vibrations ease up and then stop, my extreme anxiety slowly ebbs away, my agitation and restlessness wear off and I generally find that my gut issues improve as does the derealization feelings and the symptom of not being able to think goes also... heck, even my tight leg muscles start to relax as does my whole body...  I attribute all this to the fact I have tapered low and slow since the very start.

 

I am not saying I feel GREAT when I get stable, I am far from "normal" but I am somewhat closer to it these days.

 

I know there is no way around this but for now, I am content enough to taper very slowly and "enjoy" the "stable" periods, even just a few days to a week of feeling better is usually enough to give me the respite I need.

 

My problem has always been the chronic anxiety that is so evidently chemical in nature, it's not even "real" anxiety, it's far, far worse and is extremely hard to cope with sometimes.

 

I'll be honest, this taper could bottom out at any time... yet I think and hope that if I can crawl down to 2 mgs at the very least, maybe, just maybe some of the chemical anxiety will have toned down just a few notches and if so, I may find that the last 2 mgs will be a lot more tolerable.

 

I have noticed that Vertigo, mtmimi, perseus, JOHAN05 and quite a few others that had a hard withdrawal all said that it got somewhat better at 2 mg and below (I read a post from Vertigo saying so earlier today although I do also recall he said it took until 1.5 mg for him to start finding it easier going).

 

I just figure that IF I take my sweet time getting to 2 mg at least, then surely 40 months plus of tapering will have made a difference, it seems to me that this is going to be a very long process anyway and due to the relapse rates of these drugs, I would not want to take my chances, I have worked too hard and suffered too much to get here only to screw it up... I acknowledge how long I have been on this drug and clearly it's going to take me a long time... when I see relatively short term users taking 4 years to fully recover, it just makes me think that I need to do this slower than most...

 

Often I even wonder if I am doing the right thing even trying to get off this drug after over two decades of use... I really, really question it and often but I will get to 2 mgs and then decide what's working and what isn't... anything could happen and any given time I guess...  I saw a new doctor a few months ago and he prescribed me Mirtazapine and Lyrica, yet although I got the Lyrica, I have not taken any and I do not plan to... nor do I plan on starting Mirtazapine either...

 

If things are not more manageable by 2 mgs then I will have to maybe make a few bigger cuts and just get off this junk but at 2.9 mgs, I consider that too high to start a rapid taper off...

 

I want to at least get to 2 mgs to see if this taper is somewhat easier, it seems quite a few knew that they were going to make it at that point... and that's what I am hoping for... just to know that the rest of this is doable... I have not reached that place right now but I hope it happens for I sure will have worked for it.

 

I fail to see why Ashton or anyone else would advocate very slow tapers for long term users unless it were necessary, for me, I have experienced hitting walls before, the worst was after tapering daily for 7.5 months without a single hold and when I started to feel bad, I stupidly pushed ahead and I have never known panic or terror like it in all my life, huge panic and literally felt like I was losing my mind, that took me weeks to recover from and I never, ever want to go back to that level of suffering again if I can help it. I have also experienced sudden onset of palpitations and having my legs vibrating like crazy inside almost spreading to my arms, muscle tics under the skin on my arms, facial tics and extreme anxiety again... I know how this can be and I suspect it can be a whole lot worse and I just do not fancy my chances at going faster... I really don't... I would have to updose as so many have to and then that just prolongs this even more.

 

Lastly, this could all blow up at or near to zero anyway, but if I have managed to get to 2 mgs or below 1 mg or (hopefully) 0.5 mg, if I have to jump, I would like to know that I did all I could to get as low as possible... even in an irrational mind, I am sure jumping (or rapid tapering) from 2mg or 1 mg and below has to have a better outcome than from where I am at now... otherwise there would simply be no point to tapering below 3 mgs...

 

One thing I do know, is that by 2 mgs, I will be far, far less frightened of whatever happens... it's just a dose point where I consider even jumping as being survivable... yes, it would probably be awful but maybe not quite as bad as from a higher dose... I am sure tapering for 30 - 40 months has got to shorten post recovery to some degree in any case... that "healing" can't all be for nothing can it?

 

My nightmare scenario is to get hit at zero no matter what... I'll not know until I get there but maybe this may have a painful ending no matter what... in which case it will have to be a case of holding on for dear life or going back on the drug for life... I have seen some literally lose the plot at zero... so who knows what lies ahead.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you do not reinstate. I hope you continue just to go forward the best that symptoms will allow. I am also micro tapering. The first time tried the cut and hold and it did not work out at all for me. This tapering, for me, has been so much better.

I hope you do not reinstate. I hope you continue just to go forward the best that symptoms will allow. I am also micro tapering. The first time tried the cut and hold and it did not work out at all for me. This tapering, for me, has been so much better.

 

Hi Laura,

 

Make no mistake, I absolutely am getting better... only a month ago I felt a huge increase in my clarity of mind... it was like a dimmer switch being turned up quite a few notches... it's like my brain is waking up now... it can be a worry when that happens as it is all so new but with me, it just settled after a day or so... it wasn't painful, just that everything was a tad "whoa!" for a few hours... it's like it takes awhile to get used to the GOOD also you know?

 

In my first year at this I was bedridden by month five... I had bad DR and DP and I could only watch children's TV at my worst... huge light sensitivity, sound sensitivity, paranoia, agoraphobia etc etc... and for months I was in a huge FOG but that slowly lifted.

 

Many symptoms have lessened and/or gone... so this has to be healing... in my first year I was so fatigued I could barely get dressed at one point... now I can do stuff in the house and I am able to function... I still can't do a lot but compared to the first year, this is like x1000 better... so that has to be healing.

 

We want to be done and to have patience can seem like the hardest part as every part of us wants so badly for this to be over and done with... yet, in MY experience, going slow is the only way I can tolerate withdrawal... i recognize that the brain needs to adapt and only does this by healing and unfortunately for many of us, it IS a very slow process... but it does happen... and so tapering slowly, I am certain, really is the better way to go, we will get there just like everyone else... it's all about learning to live in the day and trying not to look too far ahead... we made it this far, nothing stops time and eventually, even I'll get there, you will too.

 

 

I was bed ridden on and off till Oct 2013 and yesterday I was out for the first time in November. It was wonderful!

 

I don't have any other options. I can't reinstate and wait for this to happen again and I can't hold forever due to tolerance I can only go forward slowly. My cut rate is painfully slow, but I am working on accepting it and living the best I can for the next few years.

You are wise to go slow and listen to your body. I have several more years of tapering due to my current dose and going at about 5% cuts ever 3-4 weeks. But it is said that we heal as we go. There are people that don't believe it, but to that I say 'why then do people who stop CT have a far worse time of it than those who did a reasonable or slow taper off?' Tapering allows us to heal and the body to adapt as we go. If you have to go slow, as I do, then just think of it as being safer about it. I've seen many people on this forum with reinstatements in their signatures and chunks of time lost for it along with the Kindling issue and having it be even harder the second time. In the end, they have to go slower and the benzo isn't as effective for them. Most seem to regret going to fast or reinstating. So all that time was wasted. For people like us, it is quite the endeavor - years tapering, and especially once we get down to those low doses because the cuts do get very small and it seems like it takes forever.

 

I try to keep the attitude that I'm getting off the drug but a little bit at a time. So essentially I treat it as if I am still taking it but just taking less as time passes. Otherwise it really starts to turn into a mind game. Tapering feels like it should be faster but if I go faster, I put myself at risk. Right now, I've got a pretty decent quality of life, better than it was when I was unstable and tapering at a rate that didn't work for me.

 

 

Lastly, this could all blow up at or near to zero anyway, but if I have managed to get to 2 mgs or below 1 mg or (hopefully) 0.5 mg, if I have to jump, I would like to know that I did all I could to get as low as possible... even in an irrational mind, I am sure jumping (or rapid tapering) from 2mg or 1 mg and below has to have a better outcome than from where I am at now... otherwise there would simply be no point to tapering below 3 mgs...

This seems reasonable to me. Like I said, I wasn't really feeling any stability at all below 3mg, even with several week holds.

My nightmare scenario is to get hit at zero no matter what... I'll not know until I get there but maybe this may have a painful ending no matter what... in which case it will have to be a case of holding on for dear life or going back on the drug for life... I have seen some literally lose the plot at zero... so who knows what lies ahead.

 

I wouldn't let this be a nightmare; it's quite possible that you will feel something significant when you finally step off, no matter how slowly you taper. I've noticed this myself with both benzos as well as narcotics, and I think it's got something to do with the body being in a drug-dependent cycle as long as the drug is being provided in any quantity, and then having to fast switch to a new gear once the drug is completely gone. You might not have the same experience, so don't plan on it -- but if you do get hit with what feels like a horrible wave once you're totally off, don't worry about it, and don't think it's permanent or who you really are.

 

As for whether or not you 'should' be going off the drug, well, of course that's up to you, but here's my thought: you can always reinstate. If it would 'work' to do so now, then it will 'work' just as well in a year or three. When I got myself all the way off, I was totally unconvinced that I'd be able to stay off. So, I made myself a deal: stay off completely for 18 months without using any other GABAergic drug, and then think about going on again if I'm still miserable. That thought alone was enough to get me through the sh*tstorm I hit when I got to zero MG. I spent much of the first few weeks that I was off telling myself that I was just running down an 18 month clock to reinstatement.

 

I don't know when that thinking went away, but I'lll say now at 7 months, the idea of ever wanting to take another benzo makes me ill. No way. And, I think that once you get yourself off, if you can keep yourself off for some period of time, you'll have a relatable  experience.

Thanks Spengler. I appreciate your input. Tell me, how long was your last taper? I recall that you jumped off and back on briefly? I seem to recall that and it was a bit of a nightmare for awhile...

 

 

You are wise to go slow and listen to your body. I have several more years of tapering due to my current dose and going at about 5% cuts ever 3-4 weeks. But it is said that we heal as we go. There are people that don't believe it, but to that I say 'why then do people who stop CT have a far worse time of it than those who did a reasonable or slow taper off?' Tapering allows us to heal and the body to adapt as we go. If you have to go slow, as I do, then just think of it as being safer about it. I've seen many people on this forum with reinstatements in their signatures and chunks of time lost for it along with the Kindling issue and having it be even harder the second time. In the end, they have to go slower and the benzo isn't as effective for them. Most seem to regret going to fast or reinstating. So all that time was wasted. For people like us, it is quite the endeavor - years tapering, and especially once we get down to those low doses because the cuts do get very small and it seems like it takes forever.

 

I try to keep the attitude that I'm getting off the drug but a little bit at a time. So essentially I treat it as if I am still taking it but just taking less as time passes. Otherwise it really starts to turn into a mind game. Tapering feels like it should be faster but if I go faster, I put myself at risk. Right now, I've got a pretty decent quality of life, better than it was when I was unstable and tapering at a rate that didn't work for me.

 

OMGWTH (great name)... I hear you. I have been around here long enough to see many speed things up and they invariably always get hit and either are miserable for longer than usual or updose... some reinstate once off no doubt too... I am not doing this twice, I would rather go back on, so I would prefer to do this right the first time. I actually enjoy being relatively stable and I have no intention of being sicker than I need to be... I see this as a process rather than something to get done these days... After all these years rushing this would probably be really painful and I am not prepared to put myself through more than I can tolerate.

 

 

I am glad to hear that your healing as you go.  I feel I have no other choice but to go slow since I tried the fast way and failed.  If your saying you feel 85% healed on your taper that's good.  Some people taper fast and then have PAWS for 29 months,  either way we all have to pay the piper on this journey.  I am convinced the slow way is the right way but the very end of the taper is a scary time and it worries me too.

Oscar....I don't know how u have done it this way! U must be the most patient person on the planet! There is NO way on the earth I could have gone at the pace u are.

              I am just concerned about one thing for u. That is what about the length of time that benzos are in your system? It seems to me that u will have been on them much longer by the time u finish? Would that cause more issues for u? I don't know , I am just putting it forward.

        I do wish u the very best though.          Hugs Pinkee

Hi Oscar,

Just dropped by to see how you are doing.

Hope you are doing better every day....sending non closable windows your way.

What dose are u at?

 

 

OMGWTH (great name)... I hear you. I have been around here long enough to see many speed things up and they invariably always get hit and either are miserable for longer than usual or updose... some reinstate once off no doubt too... I am not doing this twice, I would rather go back on, so I would prefer to do this right the first time. I actually enjoy being relatively stable and I have no intention of being sicker than I need to be... I see this as a process rather than something to get done these days... After all these years rushing this would probably be really painful and I am not prepared to put myself through more than I can tolerate.

 

I have noticed the same thing, and in this general area I read more posts from people that jump off or CT and are in bad shape for too many months then slow tapers. I personally know of two people on K for longer than 10 years micro taper and make it through and not have that happen. So I have witnessed it personally. Both people one in their 30's and one in their 60's and both were on K, so instead of hoping and wondering if it can be done I already know it can be done. This is how I learned what to do.

 

I was in acute and I was able to stabilize and now taper. I have no doubt about how right this is for me. Going too fast always hurts and going slow does not.

 

 

Lastly, this could all blow up at or near to zero anyway, but if I have managed to get to 2 mgs or below 1 mg or (hopefully) 0.5 mg, if I have to jump, I would like to know that I did all I could to get as low as possible... even in an irrational mind, I am sure jumping (or rapid tapering) from 2mg or 1 mg and below has to have a better outcome than from where I am at now... otherwise there would simply be no point to tapering below 3 mgs...

This seems reasonable to me. Like I said, I wasn't really feeling any stability at all below 3mg, even with several week holds.

My nightmare scenario is to get hit at zero no matter what... I'll not know until I get there but maybe this may have a painful ending no matter what... in which case it will have to be a case of holding on for dear life or going back on the drug for life... I have seen some literally lose the plot at zero... so who knows what lies ahead.

 

Amen to that. My symptoms are still horrible, but I think that they have peaked. I will never take another benzo.

 

I wouldn't let this be a nightmare; it's quite possible that you will feel something significant when you finally step off, no matter how slowly you taper. I've noticed this myself with both benzos as well as narcotics, and I think it's got something to do with the body being in a drug-dependent cycle as long as the drug is being provided in any quantity, and then having to fast switch to a new gear once the drug is completely gone. You might not have the same experience, so don't plan on it -- but if you do get hit with what feels like a horrible wave once you're totally off, don't worry about it, and don't think it's permanent or who you really are.

 

As for whether or not you 'should' be going off the drug, well, of course that's up to you, but here's my thought: you can always reinstate. If it would 'work' to do so now, then it will 'work' just as well in a year or three. When I got myself all the way off, I was totally unconvinced that I'd be able to stay off. So, I made myself a deal: stay off completely for 18 months without using any other GABAergic drug, and then think about going on again if I'm still miserable. That thought alone was enough to get me through the sh*tstorm I hit when I got to zero MG. I spent much of the first few weeks that I was off telling myself that I was just running down an 18 month clock to reinstatement.

 

I don't know when that thinking went away, but I'lll say now at 7 months, the idea of ever wanting to take another benzo makes me ill. No way. And, I think that once you get yourself off, if you can keep yourself off for some period of time, you'll have a relatable  experience.

Oscar....I don't know how u have done it this way! U must be the most patient person on the planet! There is NO way on the earth I could have gone at the pace u are.

              I am just concerned about one thing for u. That is what about the length of time that benzos are in your system? It seems to me that u will have been on them much longer by the time u finish? Would that cause more issues for u? I don't know , I am just putting it forward.

        I do wish u the very best though.          Hugs Pinkee

 

Hi Pinkee,

 

I was on the benzo for half my life, lol... 22 + years of use... I don't think taking time to taper off the last few mgs will make much difference now !!!

 

Yes, at times my patience has run out and I have had to dig really deep for more... but everywhere I see problems on this site and it's mostly to do with many going way too fast... I have taught myself to think of these drugs differently, rapid tapering causes untold misery and the risk of reinstatement... I always remind myself of how much worse I could feel and it keeps me on course... of course I wish it did not take so long but I also know that by rushing, it would not be over at zero... far from it.

 

 

Hi Oscar,

Just dropped by to see how you are doing.

Hope you are doing better every day....sending non closable windows your way.

What dose are u at?

 

Hi mrtmeo,

 

Thanks for the windows 

 

I will be at 2.9 mg V equivalent before the end of the year... at this stage I can't afford to think how long this is taking me, I just have to keep on and try and let the time frame go...

 

Hope you are OK today. 

Oscar....I don't know how u have done it this way! U must be the most patient person on the planet! There is NO way on the earth I could have gone at the pace u are.

              I am just concerned about one thing for u. That is what about the length of time that benzos are in your system? It seems to me that u will have been on them much longer by the time u finish? Would that cause more issues for u? I don't know , I am just putting it forward.

        I do wish u the very best though.          Hugs Pinkee

 

Hi Pinkee,

 

I was on the benzo for half my life, lol... 22 + years of use... I don't think taking time to taper off the last few mgs will make much difference now !!!

 

Yes, at times my patience has run out and I have had to dig really deep for more... but everywhere I see problems on this site and it's mostly to do with many going way too fast... I have taught myself to think of these drugs differently, rapid tapering causes untold misery and the risk of reinstatement... I always remind myself of how much worse I could feel and it keeps me on course... of course I wish it did not take so long but I also know that by rushing, it would not be over at zero... far from it.

 

I agree with this. The concern of being on the 'too' long seems to outweigh the clear and obvious dangers of going too fast. We have a forum filled with people who have gone too fast for their system to handle and are suffering terribly. I feel awful for every one of them. I figure tapering slowly is far better than going to fast and ending up suffering worse for it. I also figure that after the ten or fifteen year mark, the risks that come with doing a fast taper have got to be far worse. The body takes time to heal and slow tapers allow this. My taper will take years. I just treat it like me taking a med that I am gradually reducing and do what I can to minimize WD while still going as fast as is doable to achieve that goal.

 

I'm going to have to pay healing dues no matter what. I'd rather pay them during a smooth taper that may try my patience at times than during a rough ride through hell and into the abyss of a long acute WD PAWS type situation. We have a choice. Everyone has a choice. Some can taper faster with minimal impact to them. That is great for them. For those of us who cannot, we are doing exactly as our body dictates. Suggesting we go faster because being on them too long is bad is absurd because getting off them to fast has a whole other set of dangers as we have witnessed throughout this forum. Going faster than your body can adapt seems to lead to a lot of suffering. To me, it's just not worth it. I think once you've been on them for over a decade, going slow for some is almost mandatory. We just do the best we can and be as patient as we can be.

Oscar....I don't know how u have done it this way! U must be the most patient person on the planet! There is NO way on the earth I could have gone at the pace u are.

              I am just concerned about one thing for u. That is what about the length of time that benzos are in your system? It seems to me that u will have been on them much longer by the time u finish? Would that cause more issues for u? I don't know , I am just putting it forward.

        I do wish u the very best though.          Hugs Pinkee

 

Hi Pinkee,

 

I was on the benzo for half my life, lol... 22 + years of use... I don't think taking time to taper off the last few mgs will make much difference now !!!

 

Yes, at times my patience has run out and I have had to dig really deep for more... but everywhere I see problems on this site and it's mostly to do with many going way too fast... I have taught myself to think of these drugs differently, rapid tapering causes untold misery and the risk of reinstatement... I always remind myself of how much worse I could feel and it keeps me on course... of course I wish it did not take so long but I also know that by rushing, it would not be over at zero... far from it.

 

I agree with this. The concern of being on the 'too' long seems to outweigh the clear and obvious dangers of going too fast. We have a forum filled with people who have gone too fast for their system to handle and are suffering terribly. I feel awful for every one of them. I figure tapering slowly is far better than going to fast and ending up suffering worse for it. I also figure that after the ten or fifteen year mark, the risks that come with doing a fast taper have got to be far worse. The body takes time to heal and slow tapers allow this. My taper will take years. I just treat it like me taking a med that I am gradually reducing and do what I can to minimize WD while still going as fast as is doable to achieve that goal.

 

I'm going to have to pay healing dues no matter what. I'd rather pay them during a smooth taper that may try my patience at times than during a rough ride through hell and into the abyss of a long acute WD PAWS type situation. We have a choice. Everyone has a choice. Some can taper faster with minimal impact to them. That is great for them. For those of us who cannot, we are doing exactly as our body dictates. Suggesting we go faster because being on them too long is bad is absurd because getting off them to fast has a whole other set of dangers as we have witnessed throughout this forum. Going faster than your body can adapt seems to lead to a lot of suffering. To me, it's just not worth it. I think once you've been on them for over a decade, going slow for some is almost mandatory. We just do the best we can and be as patient as we can be.

 

Well said. It's more important to get off in good shape than to worry about how long you will be exposed to the drug.

Yes, I can see your point. After so long I guess it doesn't matter too much. And you are right in that everyone has to pay something sooner or later. Just have to do what we think is right for us as individuals , and if that works ..... Then ok!

        I am in  awe  of such patience though!        xxoo Pinkee

Far to many variables, but the path just might work. I know you've seen a lot after being on this board and I think the one thing you should recognize most is how inconsistent any of this is.

 

Have a horrible taper and ok at 0, have a great taper and horrible at 0, c/t and better in months, c/t and better in years, fast taper and ok, fast taper be messed up. Some windows throughout, no windows throughout. Slow, more linear healing, no linear healing and out of the blue healed. The list of experiences just keep going.

 

I can see you getting to 2.0 and being just fine from then on, I can also see your holds not working in time. Both are possible. I do think we try our best to do what we feel is right and what we can handle, but unfortunately we have no control over this drug. It does what it wants, when it wants. Sometimes it 'seems' to follow your rules and sometimes it doesn't. I think we try to guide is as best possible but ultimately we don't know what tomorrow will bring.

Well said formula!