Jump to content

whats it like after the final pill?


[fr...]

Recommended Posts

wow gary,

i have to smile now , your translation looks so cute. nice one.

alles gut gary, ich hoffe du wirst bald gesund.

bussi :-*

Ich auch. ;)

 

But we had better not do this here, because we will make all the people with cog-fog think we are using a different keyboard, or making up stuff like the guy in "A Beautiful Mind". Did you see that, where a genius becomes so ill that he is just writing nonsense and thinks he is decoding messages?

 

"Bussi" always reminds me of a delightful lady I knew who had an amazing story, coming to the the US from Germany, Bavaria I think, and even though she knew no English at the age of something like 20, she picked it up and spoke with an accent that was a regional US accent. She was like a middle-aged lady who grew up in the corn belt. The only time she ever betrayed her roots was when she got mad and said:

 

"Please, let's put this horse to bed," and all of us "Amis" started laughing because it reminded us of a rather violent way to end a disagreement, in the manner of the Godfather!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

wow gary,

i have to smile now , your translation looks so cute. nice one.

alles gut gary, ich hoffe du wirst bald gesund.

bussi :-*

Ich auch. ;)

 

But we had better not do this here, because we will make all the people with cog-fog think we are using a different keyboard, or making up stuff like the guy in "A Beautiful Mind". Did you see that, where a genius becomes so ill that he is just writing nonsense and thinks he is decoding messages?

 

"Bussi" always reminds me of a delightful lady I knew who had an amazing story, coming to the the US from Germany, Bavaria I think, and even though she knew no English at the age of something like 20, she picked it up and spoke with an accent that was a regional US accent. She was like a middle-aged lady who grew up in the corn belt. The only time she ever betrayed her roots was when she got mad and said:

 

"Please, let's put this horse to bed," and all of us "Amis" started laughing because it reminded us of a rather violent way to end a disagreement, in the manner of the Godfather!

yeah , its all so funny and amazing and so challenging to understand different languages.

people , don't know what they miss really. :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Challis.

 

Your experience gives me a glimmer of hope. I think the process is far tougher on people who still felt good and functional on benzo's and then had their lives torn asunder when they came off. Its not just me, its everyone close to me that has suffered. My mother actually said 'Angus, for heaven sake, just get back on valium. You were so much better'. And I was.

 

Those who were already sick on benzo's have nothing to lose so that would ease their journey in a way.

Gussy, I looked up your first posts on BB, and I don't get the feeling that you were doing fine by the time you started thinking about getting off valium. Not from your own description. Maybe you should go back and read what you wrote last April.

 

I'm not trying to make you mad, but I did myself a huge disservice by "remembering" that things were better than they were before I started thinking seriously about getting off.

 

And like you I swore I had made a mistake, getting off Klonopin. Some of my worst times were 3 and 4 months after jumping. I thought I would never feel as good as I remembered feeling on Klonopin, and I was on this crap for 35 years.

 

But I don't feel that way now, after 7 months and going into the 8th.

 

You have to remember that you are not just talking about Valium, because you are still using oxycodone, which is apparently stronger than vicodin, and you drank from about age 20, right?

 

You do not have to be a doctor to know that that's a lot of chemicals for your liver, and although you may remember yourself as being fine, you might have been heading for a complete disaster.

 

I have a friend who used percosets for many years, and he did not even drink. He is 9 years younger than me, only 54, and he has little more brain left than my mother did when she had dementia. I can't talk to him on the phone, and I can't write him, because he barely knows who I am, or what time of day it is.

 

Please don't sugercoat the past, and please give it more time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll never know what would have happened if I'd stayed on benzo's but I can say that coming off them has ruined my life... I was fine on the valium, I must repeat.

 

Hi Gussy,

 

I'm just curious why your opinion on this has changed since you first joined; in your intro post you said:

During the first couple of years I seemed to derive some benefit from it but it as turned against me in a big way. I must have hit tolerance withdrawal in mid 2012 and my life has been hell ever since with numerous ER visits. I had never suffered a panic attack before if that's what caused them. I then realised how evil benzo's are and how my addictive personality had got me into this mess. I began my taper from 15mg last November down to 3mg now.

 

I know that this whole process warps our minds pretty badly. When I was going off and got to the low doses which really felt horrible, I spent a lot of time thinking about how much "better" I'd been when I was on valium. In hindsight, my own views changed dramatically between the time I made the decision to go off, and the time that I started to have severe withdrawal effects -- and it's changed again in the past year as I've started to see some actual recovery. Your posts here, compared to when you first joined, appear to reflect some of the same thinking. I think that if you can find a way to get through the unhappiness you're in now to something brighter, you might eventually also decide, like me, that you weren't really "okay" on the drugs.

 

I'm not trying to single you out or pick on you; I see the same pattern in a lot of different people here, and as I said, I have experienced the same thing myself which makes it very real. I do think your situation is possibly complicated by your other problems and medication; I attribute my own first failed attempt to withdraw from benzos, to use of prescription painkillers to treat a neuromuscular pain condition. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that I would not have recovered from the panic/misery/insomnia I was in while still taking PKs, and I've seen a good number of other people on here have a much harder time with things when narcotics are in the mix. They don't directly agonize the same sites as benzos, but they are synergistic and definitely impact mood and anxiety in animal models.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I gotta tell ya, its not good my friend.

 

I was fine on a stable dose of valium and as I tapered things got progressively worse. Now, at 4.5 months off its an absolute nightmare. Pure unremitting hell. If they legalised euthanasia in Australia I'd be a candidate.

 

Just don't make any plans for the next year (or two) and find a quite room you can spend 99% of your time. It will likely end your life as you know it. You may get off lightly but if not then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Had I known the consequences I would never have tried to get off benzo's. Not worth it in my opinion.

 

I wish someone had been honest with me before I jumped off valium. All I got was the usual; You'll be better than ever before when you get off benzo's. You just need time and everything will be fine and dandy. Its good in theory but not true.

 

I feel very betrayed.

 

 

Gussy,

 

            First off I want to say THANK YOU for having the courage to tell it how it is for you. I am really sorry you are suffering, I have read posts on here for over 2 years and although it is little comfort, people DO improve and whilst it takes some individuals time, invariably it is inevitable that we all heal, you will too, your life is not ruined, you will recover although it may not feel like it now.

 

There is a mode of thinking on here that (as you say Gussy), once we are benzo free it is all over, well, rarely is that the case, it really depends on so many factors, age, duration of use, genetics etc etc...

 

Many on here have told me I am doing the right thing by doing an extremely slow taper, I am in month 28 at this now and I still have 2.9 mgs to taper and I still get hit with anxiety that is almost intolerable at times... yet I was on 22 years and I just know that if I tried to rush this last part, I would feel x1000 worse than I do on my worst day.

 

I hate the taper and I hate everything about it, the uncertainty, the duration, the suffering (when I feel bad I feel awful), I hate the walls and it is, without a shadow of a doubt, the hardest thing I have ever done in my life... and despite the fact I am healing now, I still have a long way to go and in some ways, this gets harder and harder... so slow is the only way to remain relatively stable but the sacrifice is years... then again, it seems to take long term users like me years to heal anyway so I would not be gaining much by jumping off now... like you say Gussy, 1-2 years... and that would be AFTER tapering for 2.5 years.... it is just insane how long this can take.

 

I have said on here before, for some long term users, even 2 years tapers are often not enough, some seem to have a recovery rate that is slow and so a more accurate time frame is 3-3.5 years (which seems to be when most bad cases recover).

 

Some on here have advised me to speed up and get these last few mgs over with, that is not going to happen and I appreciate your honesty Gussy as it has made me think again about getting this over with... yes, sobering words and it comes as no surprise that any of us want to hear the ugly truth but for some, getting off these meds too rapidly can result in a pretty miserable existence for quite some time....

 

There is still a misunderstanding of the nature of withdrawal and recovery from these drugs and yet even the educated among us still seem to largely perceive this as a problem akin to other drugs and alcohol when we know that these drugs have a very different withdrawal, it is (more often than not) NOT over simply because we made it to zero... I could make it to zero tomorrow but i would have a pretty nasty time by doing that to my brain.

 

I would give my right arm to be benzo free and healed, I really would but I know that rapid tapering is not the answer, I would more than likely reinstate, start another drug or go crazy... it would more than likely be a combination of all three... I would not make it... and I must never suffer the illusion that I would... will power does not cut it always in this despite ones own desire to be free.

 

I am lucky, I have support from my ex that somehow understands this pretty well and actively encourages me to taper as slow as I need to taper... also I have benzo friends that assure me I am doing this the right way and not to listen to anyone that says to get this done sooner.

 

I will know by 2 mg and below if this slow taper is healing me... I think it is but it is slow... and I still get waves sometimes and I cannot even imagine rushing these last mgs... I know it would be absolute Hell.... yet despite knowing this, I have a almost daily urge to just jump or end this, especially on a bad day but I have to remind myself it could be a whole lot worse.

 

I honestly think that people ONLY struggle in the last 2 mgs because of how they arrived at that dose to begin with... in other words, it is NOT necessarily the lower mgs that are solely the problem but more the healing that has not had time to take place from higher doses... and it catches up. I am at almost 2.9 mg now and yet I am probably healing from 4 mgs still...

 

Some say a taper does not heal, that healing only begins once we are OFF the drug, yet I refuse to believe that... if that were the case, what would be the point of tapering other than to stave off seizures? No, I think those that did not get any healing at all tapered badly... many seem to start too fast and end up ill at the lower doses which gives the illusion that the taper did not heal at all... i was on this drug 22 years and I know I am healing but unfortunately, a very long taper is what is needed...

 

One day, people may recognize by their own healing rates that often a 1 or 2 year taper simply is nowhere near enough, some of us need as long as 5 or 6 years I believe... only then can one expect to have a smoother departure.

 

I will say this; many, many times I have considered reinstating... had anyone told me this would take 3, 4 or 5 years out of my life to get free, there is no way I would have started this withdrawal, because, like you Gussy, I was fine on the drug and now I am housebound and it has been that way for 2.5 years now... I have not visited the beach or gone into town for over 2 years... I am healing but this (sadly) is life ruining for some of us but I read the success stories and I hope for my quality of life to get better over the next 6 month to a year... it has to get better at some point but i absolutely think 6 month tapers simply do not touch recovery in most cases... or even a years taper...

 

I distinctly get the impression from reading the many posts here that the jump point can be awful and people need to slow their tapers if they feel bad because how we feel during a taper is how we may feel for sometime to come... and the best way to maintain some wellness and some semblance of quality of life is to go as slow as ones body and brain dictates... nobody has to suffer terribly in this but sadly, in order to get free with some degree of wellness, ones taper simply has to be in sync with healing and that, rather frustratingly, can take more time than any of us want or care to admit to.

 

Tapering slow sure beats reinstating or having a hard time for a year or more once off... as much as I long to be free, I know what route I choose to take although I often think quitting this drug is a mistake, deep down I know it is what I want more than anything, yet getting there sure is no easy feat... yet I hear it is worth it and anyone that is free will no doubt start to heal faster than being on... no matter what method we choose, we all get there eventually and they say it is worth it... I just hope they are right.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gussy... your posts are very misleading. You've made a handful of statements that just simply aren't true. It's unfortunate that you're having a rough time, but that is not the case for everyone.

 

You have to remember that, first of all, us folks here at benzobuddies are the minority among benzo users that have major problems getting off these drugs. I know MANY, MANY people who have quit cold turkey, gone to detox, or done a rapid taper, and they felt completely fine. People who do a very gradual taper typically do not suffer very severely, thus making people such as yourself an even smaller minority. Also, you aren't even very far out, relatively speaking. 4.5 months is nothing.

 

Everyone's body is different, and everyone's lifestyle is different. If you aren't eating a perfect organic diet, exercising, meditating, and sticking to some sort of structure in your life... you are going to have a tougher time. You can't blame the lack of benzos for everything you are experiencing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It gets better, no one should kid you that there wont be times you dont feel 100% but remember with each day that passes you are closer to full recovery. i finishes my taper 6 weeks ago and already I feel a little better, the fog is beginning to lift, still some tingling and my feet feel funny when i walk but not nearly as anxious or paranoid as i was

i know from experience you can never have enough reassurance so take it from me IT DOES get better.

 

Stay strong 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow Oscar! You are certainly a brave individual, your taper story proves that. I think the path you have taken with your taper was the best. I tapered for 12 months after being on for 10 years and to be honest I think I could have done it differently. I feel I possibly should have let my self stabilize more often, anyhow it's done with. Again I'm sure the approach you have taken will promote the best chance of healing. Many don't understand the consequences of being on benzo's long term, it takes TIME.

 

 

Stay strong!! You can do this!

 

 

Fonz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gussy... your posts are very misleading. You've made a handful of statements that just simply aren't true. It's unfortunate that you're having a rough time, but that is not the case for everyone.

 

You have to remember that, first of all, us folks here at benzobuddies are the minority among benzo users that have major problems getting off these drugs. I know MANY, MANY people who have quit cold turkey, gone to detox, or done a rapid taper, and they felt completely fine. People who do a very gradual taper typically do not suffer very severely, thus making people such as yourself an even smaller minority. Also, you aren't even very far out, relatively speaking. 4.5 months is nothing.

 

Everyone's body is different, and everyone's lifestyle is different. If you aren't eating a perfect organic diet, exercising, meditating, and sticking to some sort of structure in your life... you are going to have a tougher time. You can't blame the lack of benzos for everything you are experiencing.

 

I agree and here's why - The first c/t I did the only sx I had was a bit of hair loss. The second c/t I did I had some mental and physical sx but they were bearable. The third time all hell broke lose. It's no wonder that many docs tell people that they can just stop taking them because even for me, someone who is very sensitive to meds, that was true the first two times. I didn't know anything about withdrawal the first two times and I would never advise anyone to do a c/t but I believe I am in the minority when it comes to the affect they had on me. That, however does not makes benzos safe and I would like to see them strictly controlled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Benzo wd is the least of my problems now :'(.

 

After spending a night in hospital after suffering from strange arrythmias and feeling weak (I had long had them but thought they were benzo wd), I was diagnosed with atrial fibrillation (AF). The symptoms of it started to affect me as I began my taper so there must be a connection. I didn't have AF or any arrythmias on a stable dose of val. Its a life threatening condition and it appears all my breathlessness, fatigue, cog fog and malaise had nothing to do with the valium wd but was due to a congenital heart condition.

 

I'm now considering reinstating simply for quality of life reasons. If your diagnosed with Afib at 37, your not going to live to old age anyway. Its all over for me. May as well go out relaxed. I've just had enough and I don't value my life enough to battle constant health crises any longer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Atrial Fibrillation is quite common. I know many people with it and plenty have lived very long lives with it.

 

It increases the risk of a heart condition the same as bad diet, smoking, drinking and an unhealthy lifestyle would. I don't know where you get your information from, but not living old with AF is just not true at all. It would be like saying, "I drive a car, so I will probably crash and not live long because of it".

 

I don't think you're going to find the validation you are asking for here. You might though, I don't speak for everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No Gussy 88 please don't give up! Im sorry about your diagnosis but im sure there is hope. If you truly feel reinstating will give you a better quality of life I guess its of course your decision.

 

Im not familiar with the condition but im sure there is hope to be found somewhere.

 

 

Sorry again,

 

I only wish healing upon you,

 

 

 

Fonz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys,

 

I felt these strange cardiac events since the beginning of my taper. I ignored them, I assumed it was just wd, until 3 days ago when I knew something was seriously wrong.

 

The Dr said benzo wd can cause tachycardia but not true AF. My heart was fine while on benzo's.

 

This is too much. I was at a low ebb already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys,

 

I felt these strange cardiac events since the beginning of my taper. I ignored them, I assumed it was just wd, until 3 days ago when I knew something was seriously wrong.

 

The Dr said benzo wd can cause tachycardia but not true AF. My heart was fine while on benzo's.

 

This is too much. I was at a low ebb already.

Gussy, tests can also throw you back. I've had some really weird things happen to me since jumping, and I am fasting right now for tests tomorrow. I know my mood and outlook on life has really tanked over the last few days, and I was ready to give up 6 months ago.

 

I do know what you mean when you talk about not being able to fight all this. It's a hard battle to continue.

 

So far I'm still in it. I think I will continue unless I find out that I have something terminal - which is a true possibility because I have already had cancer, and it could come back any time.

 

You say your heart was perfect while on benzos. But how could you know for sure? And if this is a condition, if you can live with it, are you really ready to throw in the towel?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Formula. Atrial Fibrillation is super common. And there's no reason to think you're going to die from it. Matter of fact, in the first few lines of it's description on websites like Mayoclinic, Wikipedia, WebMD, etc, it reiterates that it is the most common type of cardiac arrhythmia and generally not life threatening. Getting a diagnosis like that and automatically assuming you're going to die some early and unfortunate death is really silly. Just eat healthy, exercise and keep your health in check.

And also, Valium withdrawal didn't cause AF, it was just a stressor that triggered an underlying condition you already had. If it weren't benzo withdrawal, then there would've eventually been something else in life that stressed you out enough to cause an episode. So if you really care about your quality of life you should be making the lifestyle changes to better yourself, not just getting back on a drug to mask a problem.

 

Can someone tell me how I can get off this thread please? I really don't want to read this stuff anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

gussy!

 

hang in there! afib is very treatable. i work in a  cardiothoracic ICU (im an RN), there are many options: meds, cardioversion, ablation. most people live completely normal lives with afib and just have to be on 1 to 3 meds for rate control and anticoagulation. thats assuming the pathways are permanent, which they may not be if this is being caused by withdrawal. point is, even if you have a congenital condition, its very treatable! please dont let your bad experiences with one branch of medicine(psyche) influence how you feel about all medicine. while the medical field is woefully ignorant regarding benzos, they kick ass at cardiac issues... :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gussy... in general... you just need to stop having such a negative outlook on everything.

 

If you are always looking for reasons why you are doomed, you will find them. Self-fulfilling prophecy, my friend ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...