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Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.


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Was originally posted in the Rapid and Xanax sections;

 

 

Well an update since I haven't been on for a bit...

 

Made the decision with my Pdoc to go to the 7 day Rapid Detox Center on 10/29.

At the Center, they switched me to Valium and began.

 

Released 11/5. Oh boy... Could hardly walk, visual perception was Way off, hardly recognized the world in a way.

Panic was extreme, hearing auditory issuses began (ears popping, everything sounding like coming through a tunnel, even Myself!)

Muscle jerks, sometimes locks, shakey, etc...

 

Didn't eat since 11/5.

No Sleep since discharge. Eyes became extremely bloodshot, pupils dilated. Different visual issues in general. (Depended on which hour or min.)

Auditory issues became worse and changes in waves.

 

Things continued to change, for the worst. Extreme Withdrawl (Horrid!) set in. Don't know how to explain that. Eyes continued to look crimson red, haven't shut them for 4 days. Muscles did what they wanted to, sometimes meant doing nothing, or firing off at random. Color changes, visual isssues with Eyes continued to get worse.

 

Diarrhea began the next day and wouldn't let up, or be stopped.

 

Nervous system? Shot. Completely shot... Talking to myself, thinking wierd things, nerves like being on fire. All I can was sit and wait for each new pounding issue to arrive. And they did... Vise like crushing headache, everything smelled the same and not a good smell either. Numb through body that sometimes I didn't know i had lungs, etc... There were times I had to crawl. Walking 5 feet would exhaust me. Fingers and leg muscles would kind of lock up on me. (Either shaking or that locking up stuff.)

 

Basically a Ton of every other Withdrawl issues. Something new each day.

 

Those who have ever went through this, I'm sure you know what I mean. What I went through could only be decribed as Horrid!

 

More disappointing, my Pdoc kept telling me over the phone it was mostly Me. I needed to get out to counseling, etc... I said I would love to, When I could even walk!

 

To make a long story short, because most who have gone through rapid CT's, expecially at doses like mine were, know the mind shattering, phyiscal Horrid experience that I'm talking about...

 

Had my brother take me to the next towns ER on 11/08. My Pdoc had called before we left and said I was in Trauma, told you it was going to be hell for awhile, etc... Then she basically started on me, also saying it's mostly my panic. Dimissed most other things as being a cause from this. I was going to have to ride it out, get busy, etc...  That hurt!!! I thought she of all people, being an addiction specialist, would under the True Withdrawls. Not dismiss them. Agreed that I should go to ER and have blood work done to se if i was dehydrated, but hoped they would take me in Pschy unit for a few days, then out to somewhere to continue is this condition.

 

At the ER, once in the back and the Dr. came in and saw me, he tried to ask me a few questions to which I sounded off to him, then just looked at me, spoke to my Brother and asked if this was me or since the Detox? Then immediately said, "You are coming out!" I was in crisis mode, couldn't believe i hadn't had a seizure yet. But brought me 10 mg of Valium. Explained to my brother how Dangerous shape I was in and how these meds have to tapered slower. Mentioned about doing a Valium detox as Outpatient there. But when time for discharge the nurse said he changed his mind and wanted to Ativan instead after he looked it up on their computer. 2mg 4 times a day on day 1, 3 the next, 2 and then 1. I told my Brother that was insane! It's not a slow taper... I had already began to got back into a half out and in stage, which the nurse said he was only getting me out of crisis stage.

 

So now I'm stuck!

 

The Ativan only works a little, plus seems to take 2 hours or more to do anything, thta's mostly to put me to sleep. (That part I don't mind since I hadn't in almost a week. Hearing, taste and smell issues still come and go aften, Hands and legs very shaky still. Muscle will still jerk at times.

And today she called and went after me again. Wanted me to get on Seroquel XR, call the mental health place here to see if they could get me to one of their hospitals, and how most of this was just anxiety, Very little WD! 

 

(I had hoped and mentioned about going back to Valium like was done at Detox, and stablizing me and began a Long Taper. Nope! Take the Ativan as the ER said and get into mental health. Did i want to be a drug addict, yada? I said of course not! Said I still had several Xanax she wrote to get me to the Detox place right on the counter, and through everything I had just gone through that I never thought or wanted to pick them up and take them. I was going to die, so be it.)

 

But that is her plans/wants for me. Blows me away after 14 years of cut up great relationship. I thought as an addiction specialist, she of all people, would not discount Benzo Withdrawls. The vision issues, Auditory issues and small change, etc... was just Me! I said well you should have been Here to watch what had happened the past 4 and a 1/2 days. Only took the ER Dr. 1 min to look at me and pull the plug. I'm in shock now, by her...

 

I have read others on here and various boards talk about having to go through the similar thing with their Dr's. "Can't be just the Wd's, etc..." Just never thought it happen to me and my Pdoc.

 

So now a decision, and will have to be a Fast one!

Try and hold until tomorrow and begin calling around to other Pdocs around here to see if they will help with a crossover and long taper, (I'm 200 miles from my current Pdoc, why I mentioned around Here.) I have enough Ativan to try and get into another Dr. early this week.

Or let her now antipschy me up and try and get me into Mental Health Hospital?

 

All thoughts would be appreciated. 

 

I couldn't even begin to explain the WD's that were happening in detail. Just that friends had saw me and they just dropped their jaw. I know some of you do know, especially after a 6 Day Rapid Detox from 6 mg of Xanax that had built up over the summer due to other health issues and tons of steriods from the Lung Dr., 4 mg since 2002, 3 mg between 1999-2001, and .5 in 1999.

 

:And my reply to someone who mentioned the possibilty of kindling:

 

Technically I guess I've already reinstated. ER Dr. gave me 10 mg of Valium which almost instantly brought me half way back to life. (Audio issues cleared, smell and taste cleared, I Slept! wheww, so good. Finally Eat something today, first time in a week.

 

ER Dr. mentioned at the time that we (me and him, or the Hospitals Outpatient program), would do a Valium taper from there. Yet when dischared the nurse came in and said he changed his mind.

 

Wrote Ativan 2mg. 10 pills. 4 day 1, 3 day 2, 2 day 3, 1 day4. She said he had looked it up on their computer and decided we wanted this. I could barely see after we left, but my Brother said he had detox from Alcolhol on the sheet. (Now I see that he just plugged into the Hospital Addiction site to come up with this.) Nurse said he just got you out of Crisis mode, not all the way. The 10 mg of Valium given at 10pm had started to give way around 4 am next morning. So I'm using the Ativan right now, just not at his directions. His taper seems about as Insane as, well, another more Rapid detox.

 

It's working ok. Perfect? No. Have to dose the Ativan a lot more frequent. Hands are still a big issue with the shakiness, and occasionally the sound and taste will break through.

 

So, tomorrow I'm going to call around to some Dr's here in the UpState of SC and began asking questions. Get an appointment, whatever... As long as it's a Dr. who will do a Valium Crossover and plan with Me about how and when to make cuts. (I'm looking for, the Slower the better.)

 

I can't handle going Right back into that fire at the moment. (Nor do I think anyone around me want to see that again.) Still trying to not think about it.

I'll D/C my current Dr. No need for me to try and get someone to have me put in a Mental place because she doesn't fully know about Benzo Withdrawl? My body and nerves were on 100% alert if that makes sense. Don't know how to describe it in words. Horrid WD's. Enough that the ER looked at me and within 30 secs said, "You're coming out!" That how dangerous that is, and tapers were the correct way, not Shock and Awe.

 

Thanks for the tips on what to ask.

 

 

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I was a social worker in a mental hospital for several years, before working as a "traveling social worker" visiting clients of a non-profit social service agency who were in various psych units.

 

I would strongly discourage you from going to a mental hospital. If you are having problems dealing with life now, being around folks who are bipolar and in a manic state, or people in the midst of psychotic episodes, well, that's really just going to screw with your mind. If you can't deal with being at home and really feel you need to be in a secure environment, then I'd strongly recommend looking for another detox unit.

 

Most people who go to detox units are fast tapered off and seem to have the same experience you did. My recommendation would be to "doctor shop" until you find someone who's willing to taper you SLOWLY using Valium. That's really what is the most recommended way to come off benzos. Ativan and Xanax are short-acting, stronger benzos with a shorter half-life than Valium, Librium or Klonopin. Valium has the longest half-life of them all, and as a result it's easier to make cuts on Valium.

 

Hang in there. If you can find a compassionate doc who's willing to work with you, I'd really recommend that route. Another detox experience isn't going to be much different than what you've already experienced...

 

 

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I am agreeing with Tex. Find a doctor to supply you with benzos so you can SLOW taper in a sane fashion. It may be hard to find a doc to give you Valium, but even with a short acting benzo, the titration section has people that can teach you to crush, liquify, and administer your total daily dose in 3-4 doses to avoid interdose withdrawal symptoms and keep you much more comfortable during the taper process.

 

Any institutionalization at this point is likely to rapid taper you (again) and/or fill you up with a whole bunch more psychotropic drugs, not to mention labeling you with a major mental health diagnosis based upon your benzo withdrawal symptoms (and then drug you accordingly with antidepressants and/or antipsychotics). Ever been in a mental hospital or psych ward? I have. I can usually stand it for about 12-24 hours before the place literally starts MAKING me crazy. Doing this at home if you can is by far more desirable. Not even a sane person can stay sane for long in a mental hospital. And if you refuse your drugs - holy cow - they will get them into you anyway. And then there is always the silent threat of shock therapy for 'difficult' patients. Unless you are suicidal or a danger to others or totally incapable of being in contact with reality, hospital is not a great place to be.

 

 

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Hello Cochese.  There's a lot you have to contend with and I am sorry to hear it.  You mention going to get a doc who will provide some diazepam to do your own taper with.  That sounds like a good idea. 

 

Sometimes diazepam can be very hard to get because U.S. docs rend to view it as a particularly dangerous benzo.  If you're having problems getting diazepam (and I have heard of people repeatedly being turned away by docs who won't prescribe it for them) then you may wish to consider clonazepam which is what many people here use. 

 

 

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Thanks for the replies!

 

I agree about finding another Dr. who will Work with me on a long taper.

 

There is nothing psychotic about me at all. Never has been. Just went through a 6 day Rapid Detox after being on Xanax for 14 years.

Got out and just got Slammed.

 

If I don't find someone else and go by my current docs thinking, I won't be going to another Detox. Rather, I will be back into full blown withdrawls very soon, That is what she wants, then for somewhere to keep me while I go through the Horrid mess. She truly believes most was just Me, anxiety, maybe a "Little" withdrawl. Grab some Seroquel XR and start now, then call the mental health line, etc...  The auditory and eye issues were just me.  (One example of things she said on the phone.)

 

I guess the small taper at the Detoxed where they used Valium had me fooled a little about what was to come, since that transition was very smooth there. I can see the reasons why it is a first choice by many to taper from.

 

I just Cannot go right back through that now after being pulled by the ER Dr.

 

I know even with tapering that I will have to meet some of the withdrawls again, or all, but hopefully some will come in steps as I taper. Also would like the time to get my Body better prepared for this, and my mind as well.

 

Done deal. Tomorrow begins a day to find another Dr. Not a whole lot to choose from in the SC Upstate I don't think? A few in Greenville. Thought about contacting my Nephews Pdoc in Greenville first. Seemed nice, maybe in his 50's. Was very Patient with my Nephew.

 

I just want a Chance. Would like to also take the time during a taper to go ahead and begin some CBT, counseling regarding dealing with panic and anxiety, etc... All the things we wanted but after and I had no idea of the Intensity and Wide Range of things that hit me and wouldn't let up. Only got worse, and would wait on the next thing that would add to the list that came out of nowhere. Some staying througout and others coming and going without warning.

 

My Dr. was right last Friday on the phone. Her first words were, "You're in Trauma. Told you it was going to be hell."

Yet an hour later it's Me?  And she's known me for over 14 years. Just anxiety and some panic at times.

I would like to Ask Her why she left me on this for 14 years! Now blame Me. I have a huge part, but...

 

Time to find a new Dr.

Plus now I am somewhat ready. I had no idea what was to come this time,

i'm surprised many who do that method, especially lonng term people like me, don't come out of such rapid detoxes without getting PSTD.

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Hello Cochese.  There's a lot you have to contend with and I am sorry to hear it.  You mention going to get a doc who will provide some diazepam to do your own taper with.  That sounds like a good idea. 

 

Sometimes diazepam can be very hard to get because U.S. docs rend to view it as a particularly dangerous benzo.  If you're having problems getting diazepam (and I have heard of people repeatedly being turned away by docs who won't prescribe it for them) then you may wish to consider clonazepam which is what many people here use.

 

I wonder why they view it this way? As opposed to any other benzo.

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Hello Cochese.  There's a lot you have to contend with and I am sorry to hear it.  You mention going to get a doc who will provide some diazepam to do your own taper with.  That sounds like a good idea. 

 

Sometimes diazepam can be very hard to get because U.S. docs rend to view it as a particularly dangerous benzo.  If you're having problems getting diazepam (and I have heard of people repeatedly being turned away by docs who won't prescribe it for them) then you may wish to consider clonazepam which is what many people here use.

 

I wonder why they view it this way? As opposed to any other benzo.

Valium has been around much longer and developed a bad name for itself, even tho it is the least dangerous of the benzos.

Dr's will not prescribe it to the elderly due to the sedating effects and can cause falls.

It seems u do better on valium, so why not find a dr to prescribe the valium and do a microtaper?

 

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Just an update:

 

Managed to have enough Ativan and did get an appt. with a new Dr. last Wednesday.

 

Seemed like an OK Dr. Went through the whole Life situation things, etc..., just like most first time appts. with a Dr.

 

Explained when and why I began taking Xanax, and how over the summer it blew out of control, how I went to 6 day Detox and the nightmare that followed and ended with the ER trip and being pulled half way out, etc...

 

He agreed to try and help me get stable and then develop a slow taper.

 

He asked what they did at the Detox, Regarding Valium, Dose. I told him I thought they gave me 60 mgs to start because I was trying to hold at 6 mg of Xanax with Interdose going on when I arrived.

 

Well, he started me on 30 mg of Valium, 10 times 3 a day. I said, "Isn't that a little low? Can we at least go to 40?" He said to just begin with this and come back in 8 days to see how it's doing.

 

It's doing like crap!

 

Was certainly better on the Ativan, just took Way to much to stablize. The Valium seems much different trying to go back up to stablize than being given it at Detox to come down from the Xanax.

 

It hits fairly quickly, some drowsiness, then after 2 hours the Anxiety/WD's begin to come back fairly intense. Depressing!

He put me back on 20 mg of Paxil to try and get ahold of the anxiety. This morning was the worst day as i awoke trembling with Very dry mouth, anxiety, etc...

Put in a call about what to do and said it would be pasted along to him. No return call by 4 pm so called back, got after hours voicemail. Got the Dr. on Call and he said he couldn't make any changes on weekends and just keep taking the Valium at 30 mgs like the Dr. prescribed. Said I was going to have Anxiety/WD's because that's what Benzo's do, and just go through it until i can see or talk to the Dr. on Monday, whenever. (My next scheduled appt. is on the 21st. Won't make it that long...)

 

So, Stuck again... 

I knew 30 mg wasn't going to do it as i was on 6 mg of Xanax, and given 60 mg of Valium the first 2 days at Detox.

Just kind of stumped why even a 10 mg of Valium isn't lasting even 4 hours.

 

So maybe not Wise, but decided to jump back to Ativan this evening to at least try and get a day of somewhat calm back. I have enough to maybe last until sometime Sunday. Then i guess I could jump back to the Valium, maybe increase it, until I can see him again and re-talk this.

 

Was surprised he didn't ask for the records from my former Pdoc. All he wanted was the records from the Detox place to see what they had done, med doses, etc...

 

Did get a call from my former Pdoc (Though doesn't know is now former), checking up on me. I told her about going to the other Dr. Said she was fine with that, and that I needed someone closer to home. She doesn't believe this is going to work. She also believes I will have to be on some kind of Meds the rest of my life, just not benzos, because of extreme anxiety issues. Agreed that I live in the worst State to get help and that there isn't much options for me.

 

She may be right in some ways. Told her that upon refelection, that maybe there is a lot I forgot at an early age, teen, etc... That the anxiety issues are likley deeper than thought. She believes it was a big part of what happened last week with the Intense WD's. Of course a lot of that is going to happen just by withdrawing from the drug itself. It should. But tackling the deep anxiety she thought would be a probllem for me Period. Taper, no taper, etc... Left me feeling hopeless, even though she was speaking and trying to honest and kind during the talk... That I was likely going to go through a repeat and may stay that way for a long time, or until I can learn or be taught how to overcome the extreme anxiety which she thinks has been manifesting itself throughout.

 

Said to talk to the new Dr., but maybe also look into getting into any kind of rehab, even though my shape will be Horrible like last week, and, well..., duh..

 

I may try and hold on and possibly ask about a switch to Klonopin just to hear his thoughts. From what I have read, would be better than this Ativan and although slower to act, would be more potent as far as holding anxiety with a long half life?

 

Any thoughts about the last part regarding a switch to K? Any thoughts about any of this?

 

I just want to stablize right now and think, enjoy a few weeks, then sit down and go over a taper plan. (Would like to at least enjoy the holidays right now, and I think I would need to in the mind frame I'm in at the moment before tackling this again. (But I have to stablize first before any of that can happen. I just don't know how much he is willing to Up the Valium, will it work, or ask for a change to K.)

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Please stay away from all mental hospitals , I worked in one for many years and believe me when I say they will make you worse , I witnessed horrible physical and emotional abuse of patients and when I tried to do something about it I was told to keep my mouth shut if I didn't want to get fired , eventually I got fired for speaking out about the abuse , I'm still traumatized and I wasn't even a patient there , when you go into a mental hospital you become a cash cow for tons of people and nobody cares about anyone getting better it's all about money , mental hospitals make people crazy and if you think you're crazy now you have no idea what you are in for , I had seen patients being beaten , thrown against the wall , thrown out of windows , kicked in the privates , chained to a fence and much much more , I understand that you don't feel well mentally and I know how hard that is but don't think for a second you can trust doctors or people workin in mental hospitals , if I were you I would consider going on a small dose of whatever you were taking , I take chelates magnesium and vitamin d around 600mg a day and it helps a little with my anxiety , I also take one capsule of omega 3 fish oil a day and it seems to help a little with head pain , I hope you will feel better soon
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Please stay away from all mental hospitals , I worked in one for many years and believe me when I say they will make you worse , I witnessed horrible physical and emotional abuse of patients and when I tried to do something about it I was told to keep my mouth shut if I didn't want to get fired , eventually I got fired for speaking out about the abuse , I'm still traumatized and I wasn't even a patient there , when you go into a mental hospital you become a cash cow for tons of people and nobody cares about anyone getting better it's all about money , mental hospitals make people crazy and if you think you're crazy now you have no idea what you are in for , I had seen patients being beaten , thrown against the wall , thrown out of windows , kicked in the privates , chained to a fence and much much more , I understand that you don't feel well mentally and I know how hard that is but don't think for a second you can trust doctors or people workin in mental hospitals , if I were you I would consider going on a small dose of whatever you were taking , I take chelates magnesium and vitamin d around 600mg a day and it helps a little with my anxiety , I also take one capsule of omega 3 fish oil a day and it seems to help a little with head pain , I hope you will feel better soon

 

Bechlin, this is criminal and disgusting. its damn unbelievable.  >:(

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Please stay away from all mental hospitals , I worked in one for many years and believe me when I say they will make you worse , I witnessed horrible physical and emotional abuse of patients and when I tried to do something about it I was told to keep my mouth shut if I didn't want to get fired , eventually I got fired for speaking out about the abuse , I'm still traumatized and I wasn't even a patient there , when you go into a mental hospital you become a cash cow for tons of people and nobody cares about anyone getting better it's all about money , mental hospitals make people crazy and if you think you're crazy now you have no idea what you are in for , I had seen patients being beaten , thrown against the wall , thrown out of windows , kicked in the privates , chained to a fence and much much more , I understand that you don't feel well mentally and I know how hard that is but don't think for a second you can trust doctors or people workin in mental hospitals , if I were you I would consider going on a small dose of whatever you were taking , I take chelates magnesium and vitamin d around 600mg a day and it helps a little with my anxiety , I also take one capsule of omega 3 fish oil a day and it seems to help a little with head pain , I hope you will feel better soon

 

Bechlin, this is criminal and disgusting. its damn unbelievable.  >:(

Yep it is and it's much more common than you know , nobody cares about " crazy " people they are only in institutions and group homes to make other people rich ( workers , guardians , owners of group homes ) it's a disgusting business , I'm still traumatized by all the horrible things I had seen

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Oh, I personally have no intentions of going to a mental hospital.

 

It's just one of the things we finally cleared up yesterday when talking about the lack of many care options in this State.

I've already been in Detox, 10/29, and have no intentions of going back...

 

Main issue now is how to stablize me.

I don't think any Dr. is going to put me back on Xanax at 6 mg, because I was having bad Interdose WD's then. (They wouldn't write that amount anyway...)

 

Right now it seems the new Dr. wants to go back to Valium that I was given in Detox. He asked me to sign a waiver so he could the medical records from the Detox Center to see exactly what they did. I told him I believed they started me at 60 mg of Valium for the first day or two, then began the rapid cuts.

 

So he started me at 30 mg of Valium, which I thought was too low. Just sedates for about 1 to 2 hours and then the Anxiety really crashes through. Just seems wierd taking it now compared to taking at the Detox. I guess maybe because I was already on Xanax a long time and at a high dose, putting 60 mg of Valium in when I arrived was much different. Now after the detox and 4 Hellish days before the ER put a stop and brought me half way out, going back up using Valium seems a Lot different...

 

 

It may have a long half life, but seems to have a very short beginning duration of affect. After 2 hours, I'm breaking through.

The Ativan the ER gave me does a better job of keeping things at bay, yet have to dose Far too much and high.

 

Why I was asking if the Valium the new Dr. started me on was too Low, or since Ativan seems to somewhat work better, should I talk to him about maybe giving "Klonopin" a try since it also has a decent half life? Possibly better for anxiety/panic than Ativan? Just want to completely get stable for now.

A little lost on what to do or ask. Depressed about the whole situation... (6 months ago I was doing fine, and through the summer and fall everything has went extremely downhill.)

 

I eventually want to do a taper, but right now I want just a bit of normal back in life to take a break from what I just went through first.

I've never really given klonopin a try is one reason I asked, or thinking about asking him. Or perhaps 30 mg of Valium Is far to low considering my past usage of Xanax and what I was given as soon as i went into Detox. 60 mg.  I thought since the Ativan somewhat brings a bit of normal back, that isn't klonopin more potent and better?

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Hello Cochese.  It's worth taking the Valium for a week or so before drawing any conclusions about the strength of the dose.  This is because Valium accumulates slowly to a max concentration in you.

 

If I was in your situation I would do my best to put up with those awful bouts of anxiety (what some people call the "dreads") and cross over to 30mg Valium or a little more.  If you start at a higher dose then your taper will be longer.  I would hold at that dose for at least 3 or 4 weeks to make sure you are stable.

 

Just to clarify what I wrote because I think it may have been misunderstood.  I was trying to say that 30mg taken for a week may turn out to be about right if your symptom is mainly states of heightened anxiety. 

 

I didn't noticed you mentioning other disabling symptoms (brain zaps, confusion, shooting pains, tinnitus, lack of balance, lack of co-ordination, etc), so I assume your 30mg dose may be getting close to the right dose for you.  Over the coming weeks you would adjust to the valium and these states of dread would start to get better then when you are okay you may feel ready to make your first cut.

 

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Hi:

 

The stories about the mental "health" care facilities sound like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, only worse. Poor tex and others here with mental health facility experiences. With Klonopin, I would not recommend it as an alternative. True, you will feel better since it is strong like xanax and Valium is much weaker, but believe me, I am struggling off of Klonopin and it hasn't been that long since my taper began and still have most of it in my system. It's strong strong stuff and very difficult to taper off of, at least from my own experience so far. Try reading threads from The Klonopin Klub here. That will give you a good idea why they call it the beast. You'll pay for it sooner or later.

 

My pdoc is using the Ashton Method, using valium as part of the taper plans. After being on K for so long, high dose 8 mg 10+ years, to me taking a 10 mg = .5 K valium dose is like eating a piece of candy, that's how weak it seems to my system. If you decide to take K, expect more relief from it than you would valium because it's as strong as xanax. BTW, valium should not leave your system after two hours; it's very long acting; more so than K. It's just weaker so that's why your feeling little relief. Plus, going from 60 mg to 30 mg is insane.

 

Having previously been on xanax 13 mg (yes, it's true that much), for 10 years my withdrawal was C/T in detox overnight and I can't describe how bad it was for me. Just like you. That's when my psych immediately put me on 8 mg of K. I didn't at the time know K was addictive. The doc was not benzo wise and thought my withdrawal was just my natural anxiety/insomnia at play. She also thought I was bipolar, even tho I never had a manic/depressive state in my life. How Wrong!

 

Can't offer anything more than support and good wishes. Good luck. Hope you find someone right who can help you that doesn't live in an entirely different state (and state of mind). benzogirl.

 

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Hello Cochese.  There's a lot you have to contend with and I am sorry to hear it.  You mention going to get a doc who will provide some diazepam to do your own taper with.  That sounds like a good idea. 

 

Sometimes diazepam can be very hard to get because U.S. docs rend to view it as a particularly dangerous benzo.  If you're having problems getting diazepam (and I have heard of people repeatedly being turned away by docs who won't prescribe it for them) then you may wish to consider clonazepam which is what many people here use.

 

I wonder why they view it this way? As opposed to any other benzo.

 

I always wonder about that too. Benzogirl

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I agree. Detox Centers seem to make a bad situation even worse. Like causing a PSTD type syndrome where even thinking about it causes pain, and also Hesitation, More Anxiety, to even want to try to get off again, period...  It certainly Shell Shocked me! One reason I would like to be completely Stable and Hold for a bit in Peace. Mom isn't well at all and would like to have her down for Thanksgiving from the Assisted Living she is stay at. Me and her both have went downhill this summer. Since my Dad passed in 2008, I've kind of become that void. A Brother and Sister who never helped with either Dad, or Mom. I'm in control of everything regarding her. VA Custodian, Power of Attorney, etc..., etc...  I'm about broke, may lose rental house, possibly nowhere to go, etc... One reason I almost didn't go to the Detox Center because I knew I would be bad after leaving, despite the person who worked there telling me it would only be for 2 weeks. yeah, right. Even my Pdoc didn't try and snow me that bad. (And people wonder why my anxiety has been through the roof for so long. ;) )

 

Thanks for the lastest replies Braban and benzogirl!

The info, thoughts given were actually the type I wanted to hear about.

 

I only have a 1 month experience with Klonopin that was tried about 4 years ago just as an experiment with my Pdoc to see how it effected me. Didn't kill me of course, but thought it was much weaker than Xanax, seemed to take a Lot longer to do anything, and that anything seemed weaker? Or just maybe the difference made it seem that way compared with Xanax. Only took it for that 1 month and went back to Xanax. Though after researching the past 2 months, it seems the majority say otherwise.

 

(I never liked Ativan either because it didn't seem to do anything other than give me a headache and sick feeling. Yet know after the Detox experience, it's a different situation. Helps me feel like me more than anything at the moment.)

 

The splitting Valium doses was a great idea, and thanks. I will try that later today. (I also agree that maybe 30 mg is insanely low, but my former (As of last Wed.) Pdoc called yesterday and said the same about the accumulation over time that will/should happen. She was concerned that she hadn't heard from me because she knew how bad I was and wanted to make sure i was alright. (Alive)

 

Starting the Valium over is also have some effects that i didn't experience at the Detox Center. (Though I know it could be related to different circumstances. One was coming down from Xanax and using it only 6 days from very high to low. The other is now like beginning anew.)

 

Seems to effect my breathing more. Worries me with my possible lung issues. (Ativan isn't doing so, or nowhere near as much.) Far more Weak Legged and Fatigued?

Some things I will need to talk with my new pdoc about, plus the suggestions given here this evening. Things I need to consider and make my mind up about. It's why I ask those questions because I hoped someone/people here would have more real life experience and my time is running short to decide.

 

(Seems that has been the case the past month. Very quick choices to make, just like the Detox Center. I was kind of Pushed into that asap. That alone caused more stress those past 2 weeks before going. Would I be cutoff? Would I consider going? etc... Basically told I had no choice. I knew very well I was having signs of Interdose, tolerence issues, yet a Klonopin or Valium taper was discussed before the Pdoc decided I wouldn't be able to do it, nor would she even consider anything remotely close to a long taper. Then decided I just needed to go in and get out it out. Said tapering was just prolonging...)

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hey cochese,

 

what an ordeal you've been through and i can relate to everything and then some. i finally got off over 20 years klonopin in a very brutal cold turkey and my brain is still beating down on me to this day and it's 19 months. now. i've also done plenty of other c/t's in my life and too many to mention because i just could not taper from the klonopin in a slow and right fashion. i did do a rapid taper from klonopin and switched over to valium for a few months but ended up doing the c/t from 30mg valium, 2 mg xanax and 1750 mg soma. i am definitely kindling/ i am doing much better than i was and i don't know how i didn't die from that horrid trauma that i know i still have to deal with when i am stronger?

 

so i really think they are right to not get on the klonopin but to please find a doctor as soon as possible (if you can and you can if you really want to) too help you get on the right amount of valium and do a slow micro taper or liquid titration. i agree the amount of valium they have you on is too low. i think you probably need about 60mg. but i can't be prescriptive on here so i do think you probably need more to stabalize and i also think that if you take klonopin you could possibly feel worse.

 

it could possibly back fire. it's very strong. i think valium is the best choice and the right amount and taper very slowly. i should have reintstated on the 4th day in that detox. it's so funny and odd how all of a sudden when you're in that state of withdrawals all of a sudden you have more anxiety to deal with and underlying issue's all the medical community starts throwing those darts at you. they just can't or won't comprehend the down regulation of GABA that occurs and the horrible and dangerous symptoms that arise from that.

 

either that or they start to feel scared for some reason because they've never seen such a thing before. probably both. idiots. all right, kidding kind of and they should experience this for a milla-second and then talk. i've said a prayer for you that you find the right Doc to help you with this! i'm glad you have some ativan to help you feel somewhat calm but i really think it's the valium that will help you taper all the way through and it will and like Brabran says the valium accumulates slowly to a max concentration in you.

 

good luck,

prettydaisys

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IMO, I would never switch to klonopin because I have seen and read it causing some of the longest lasting symptoms.

Give the valium time because it took my mom a week to get somewhat stable on 6mg valium per day from 1.5mg Lorazepam per day.

After about 3 weeks she was doing very well.

1mg lorazepam is = 10mg Valium.

 

 

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Thank you.

 

I have moved my return appt. up with new Dr. to tomorrow at noon, (2 days earlier), as I'm struggling on the 30 mg of Valium. We have some things to talk about for sure. If I didn't have a few Ativan to mix in this past 7 days I would be insane, or completely back like I was after the 6 day detox. (That wasn't a pretty site that ended up with an ER Dr, saying enough...)

 

My Anxiety, some OCD, is So Deep Seated it's unreal. My former Doc who basically put/convienced me to go into detox called yesterday to check on me. Had a long talk, and she agreed about the Anxiety being deeply rooted. That it was going to be Extremely Hard doing this. Not only the WD process itself, but the deep anxiety would cause things for me to be even worse. We both recalled some things from the past 14 years of her treating me, and me telling about recalling some possible issues far earlier on that I pushed aside or thought were irrevelant to the time the full blown Panic Attack first occured in 1998. That happened after being put to sleep during oral surgery to have wisdom teeth removed. i remember rainbow colors, and also myself waking up moaning and hearing the dentist telling the assistant to crank up whatever they used to sedate me. What happened after for almost a day is something I've struggled to explain to people or even know what it may be.

 

After researching a lot of Benzo WD symptoms, I think i finally found something that comes as close to what I felt like in medical terms. "Akathisia"...

My Mom gave a vistoril late that night after consulting with the dentist and it did pull me out of it. (First Drug I had ever taken in 33 years of life.) However the next night when eating and watching TV, after feeling Fine all day, I began to feel like I couldn't swallow and then not breathe. All in a moments notice, out of the blue. If I went and laid down and could fall asleep, I would make it through the night. However that only lasted 2 days. It just became more intense, and a solid week of going to the ER at nights began. Each time Ativan pulling me out. It ended with an ER Doc telling me that I had every test done over a week and I was medically healthy, but had Anxiety and Panic Disorder.

 

I was shocked to say the least, because it wasn't what I had thought it was. I thought Panic or Anxiety meant people running around screaming, etc... This was like a vaccum pulling air out of my lungs, etc... But I was sent to a GP who began Xanax .5 and Paxil. After a month or 2, decided I needed a Pdoc as he didn't feel comfortable enough to keep prescribing these types of Meds and said it was better to see someone (Pdoc) who were experts in this, etc...

 

I've been on since, except the 4 days after 11/5 from the Detox. Held at 4 mg of Xanax without any troubles since 2002. Took a sneeze and a hosital stay loaded with steriods and Bronchs for 2 weeks to completely blow the Xanax use out of water... :(  I only knew to fight the side effects of the Decadron, Medrol, Pred, and likely the scare of the Bronch itself, with Xanax. I didn't know what else to do. Next thing I knew I was taking 6 to 8+ at times all summer. I was higher than 6 mgs easily during August, and tried a Detox Center myself because I knew this wasn't good. Didn't even tell my Doc I was going. I didn't make it 3 1/2 to 4 days and left AMA and got the heck home.

 

Since the first of Sept. I brought down and held myself at 6 mgs, (I just stayed at 6 mgs by trying to judge where I was when I left the Detox as they told me I was down to 6 or 6 1/2 Ativan as they started me at 12 when i arrived???)  Feeling Tolerance, my Docs pressure and advice, I agreed to try a Detoc Center oncee again and told myself this was it! I'm done with Benzos.

 

Center immediately gave me 20 of valium upon arrival at 3 pm, and another 20 mg at bedtime. I believe they did that the next day and a half, 60 mg, and then began the cuts. I didn't notice Much until day 3, as I became a little weaker, shaking was Different and a lot more of it. Sleep was not as good. The 100 mgs of Vistoril didn't really help much. Last 2 days were only 5 mg at bedtime only. Then I was released on 11/5, with my last 5 mg dose the night before.

 

I walked downstairs with wobbling legs the fursther i got and opened the door, and the rest was devastating. Anxiety was 1000%, the World looked different, I couldn't walk, couldn't feel the ground, etc..., You name it, it was coming hard. Still amazed I made the 2 hour trip home. Even though all the mess coming back, I told me friends who picked me up to look at me. Please don't ever let this happen to any of you. That even though things were bad, I would die before touching another Benzo. (I was so scared before going to the Detox Center, after having a Brief encounter of one just 6 weeks prior, that I contemplated another not so good thought to avoid it all. I was very serious.) But coming back after Detox, I told everyone this would have to kill me first because I would not give in... I didn't recognise my house. It looked squashed. When i walked in, it was like i had never been there or it had been years. I couldn't feel me walking on the floor, perception distortion began, etc...  I sat down at my computer and it took me 5 mins to remember how to work it!

 

I had a small window later that night where things calmed just a little for 3 hours and thought, wow, windows already? This will be ok. (Pretty sure that maybe a little residual valium had something to do with that possibly?) After that 3 hours though, things went downhill in a blink of an eye. Literally, as I know most all of you know to well about. Next morning, blood red eyes, the runs all day, no sleep and never did over 15 mins in 4 days, vice crushing headache, basically almost became catatonic in some ways and would try and fight. That wonderful hollow hearing, ears poping, same funky smell and taste. Everything smells and taste like crap. Some call it a "tinny" like sensation? I don't have a name for it myself. (I had basically every symptom known so no need to list them all as i caught myself just doing. Page isn't long enough...)

 

I wound up in the ER with the Doc looking at me and immediately saying enough. 10 mg of Valium to half pull me out. Changed mind and wrote Ativan 2 mg to be taken 4 times on day 1, 3 on day 2, 2 day 3, and 1 on day 4, and off again. That didn't make any sense to me as it would be just as fast or faster getting right back to where I was. Instead I made the decision to take enough to feel as good as I could, and my brother had some he spared until I could find a new Pdoc closer to home to talk to about this, etc..., As my current Pdoc is/was 200 miles away at the coast. Plus she wanted me to keep going, but also knowing I had Zero support, almost completely broke, would lose my rental home with no where to go, etc... Homeless and going through Horrid WD's?

 

I met the new Dr. last Wed. $200 first visit, and it was the usual first time stuff. How was childhood, do you do other drugs, been in legal trouble before, yada... Then got to the problem. Prescribed 30 mg of Valium, which I kind of asked questions about, but in a nice way because I didn't think it matched up. Said he would help get stable and then work on a slow taper.

 

Now likely another $100 tomorrow, and so far it seems going back on Valium at 30 mg is a huge problem. Seems to work maybe 4 hours, shaking gets horrible, legs again become wobbly and weak, anxiety goes through the roof. That taste and smell is always knocking on the door and sometimes creep back in. Along with hearing issues, although very sparsely.

 

 

 

Something has to give tomorrow. I just want to be fully stable again, at least through the holidays. They have always been one of my worst periods anyway, and I would like to enjoy them a little. bring my Mom home from assisted living during this time, etc... Maybe begin to try and tackle this deep seated Anxiety through whatever means to help me be better prepared for a taper, and then maybe begin a Smart taper at the start of the new year. (Would like to work some through the holidays if i could get stable enough to make a little money to help out, get some things in order like where I might stay when going through this again, because I will have to give up everything. No support from my brother, couldn't stay there. I do everything, always have. Took care of my Dad for 5 years that he had cancer (And my Mom at the same time), with no help from siblings. I have continued to take care of my Mom since 2009, and even though she is in assisted living, I still have my hands full with her.

 

So tomorrow I have to be a little firmer, yet not too much, regarding getting stable. My weight needs to get back up, etc... My mind has to be more mentally prepared.

Whether that's an increase in Valium or a switch to Klonopin. (I know people say K is a beast to get off of, but aren't they all? What I just went through,and partially still, was a beast.)

 

So, $100 and 15 mins to make a case. (I will be broke.) One that I don't what is best or not to suggest. Only how I want to feel, or at least as close as I can. Any change in meds, valium or a total switch, I just hope no more easing to it. I may take the Ashton Manual this time and kindly ask about equivalent doses, etc... Money is going to run out and I need to get this right fast.

 

Prayers are very welcome. (Sorry for the mini Bio.)

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IMO, I would never switch to klonopin because I have seen and read it causing some of the longest lasting symptoms.

Give the valium time because it took my mom a week to get somewhat stable on 6mg valium per day from 1.5mg Lorazepam per day.

After about 3 weeks she was doing very well.

1mg lorazepam is = 10mg Valium.

 

Hiya Mrtmeo.  It seems that Cochese is going in and out of severe withdrawal and getting all sorts of different advice from doctors.  I've seen situations like that in which it's really difficult to get stable.  As diazepam is so slow to build up that it can be very hard to know when a person hits the right dose and there is a chance that severe symptoms may emerge before the diazepam has built up.

 

Perhaps it would be an idea if he went back to Ativan and got stable on that for a month and then does a slow cross over to diazepam (at the sort of cross over rate recommended by Ashton).

 

 

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