Author Topic: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.  (Read 11281 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2013, 08:47:39 am »
Met with the Dr. today and after a brief talk saying he had got my medical records from the Detox Center, we discussed where everything was at this point.

I told the truth, not so well. Ativan did better, but took way too much to do so. Valium gave me a brief drowsy state and body limbs would begin to give out, Shake weakly, (Not just a tremor), taste and smell issues always breaking back in, along with Anxiety.

He decided on a switch... Klonopin, 1 mg, 3 to 4 times a day. Stay at current 20 mg Paxil dose. (Since I had stopped Months ago. Would start and stop occasionally over the past 14 years.)

Asked if I had ever taken Seroquel to which I answered yes. That my other Pdoc had prescribed it at one time for sleep during my Dad's battle with Cancer. 25 mgs. Oh and I sleep alright.

Said I could take that if needed for sleep, plus try it in day time some as well to try and keep intrusive thoughts at bay for now. Says most patients he has seen who have such deep high strung Anxiety don't seem to get as sedated. Left that part up to me to try and see how it goes.

Haven't started the changes yet. Figured I would begin later this morning when I wake up. Said to remember that this would have to build up a little like Valium in the blood, so give a time before giving up.

So later today, New Med regime will be 1 mg of Klonopin 3 to 4 times daily. 20 mg of paxil for now, since only one week getting back on. Optional Seroquel 25 to 50 mg at bedtime, optional 25 mg during the day if tolerated.


Come back in 2 weeks to evaluate...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 09:01:02 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2013, 02:42:55 pm »
Dang! Already not going well.  :-[

Extreme dry mouth, shaking, etc... What a mess I am.  :-[

Tapped out on money, cannot go back to Dr. because of this, unlikely he would know what to do anyway, just say gut it out, feeling hopeless to just get stable.
Tolerance is obviously through the roof it seems.

Wondering how much more I can deal with...

Definately a Different drug. Pulse upon waking is 110. Dry mouth All day long. Cotton mouth. Gonna make a call, but I can't go back at $90. About all I have left for the month. Still have Valium left.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 02:57:15 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2013, 03:34:26 pm »
If you can't find a doctor who will help you just taper yourself and all of us here will help you.  But first you need a doctor to give you the valium.  The doctors say its anxiety so don't fight that issue. Admit it but tell them that your drug of choice is valium.

Tell them Xanax and Ativan make you sick but valium doesn't.  Then go to the ashton manual and look how to tAaper off.

Peace and Blessings
[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2013, 10:55:26 pm »
So later today, New Med regime will be 1 mg of Klonopin 3 to 4 times daily. 20 mg of paxil for now, since only one week getting back on. Optional Seroquel 25 to 50 mg at bedtime, optional 25 mg during the day if tolerated.

Hiya Cochese.  Decide on how many doses of Klonopin you are taking each day and stick to it.  It's best not to change between 3 and 4 doses because that's a big change and it can make you more sensitive.

Paxil has an unusually short half-life and very many people report withdrawal effects when they stop taking it.  If you are trying to taper benzos then it may be better, once again, not to change the dose of this med.  Keeping a steady dose of Paxil will mean that you do not get additional side effects from Paxil withdrawals. 

Paxil is not known to help with benzo withdrawal but you may need it for other reasons.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2013, 01:31:51 am »
The problem with Valium it seems, is that he doesn't seem to want to write over 30 mg. Far from the Ashton method and manual. (I was put on 60 when I entered the Detox Center on 10/29 for 6 mg of Xanax detox.)

Ativan has been the best as to me feeling somewhat like my old self, closest to feeling stable, able to eat, etc... Just takes quite a bit.


So far with Klonopin, it is surely Different. Mouth is pure cotton mouth, coated tongue, Anxiety has Increased, agitation, etc... Like it is doing the reverse or something.
Can't really eat, drinking myself to death with fliuds, yet still dry.

I have stuck with 4 mgs so far. 4 yesterday, and on pace for 4 today. (At 3 mg tonight as of 8pm.)
I haven't left the house since beginning this.

Yes, the Paxil is for the extreme Anxiety. Been off and on this for the 14 years of being medicated. Had been off through the summer.

So far since being pulled out by the ER after 4 days free, Ativan works better, yet I don't think anyone would write the amount needed, at least 10 mgs, for me to stay somewhat the more stable, able to function, and then begin a taper from that.  I just don't think the 30 mgs of Valium was enough according to the Ashton Chart, and the way I felt.

Took the 3rd mg of Klonopin at 8pm, and dry mouth is coming back in full force. Nothing to swallow it's so dry. I called today and left word about what was going on. Possible Paradox Reaction? I dunno. (It also does seem depression is worse on this crap.) I called back after 5 hours and he was gone, left a message saying to stay on it and if any troubles I couldn't handle, go to the ER because he wouldn't be back until Monday.

I'm tempted to do just that. Another ER trip to explain what has happened since. Sure they will be thrilled if they do anything at all this time. This is depressing as ....
All I have seeking is to get Stable, breathe about a week or 2, then begin a Sensible Taper. Turning out to be harder than I wished, or maybe I picked the wrong doc. I dunno. The dry mouth alone is likely to be enough to send me back to the ER tonight or early morning. Tongue is coated white/blue, and there isn't enough water to help.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 01:41:13 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2013, 02:21:56 am »
Hiya [...].  Yes, I did mean using Ativan and Valium at the same time just as Ashton describes. 
I'm not sure where the lithium fits in.

Hi [...],
Yes, that makes sense then.
I mentioned lithium only because it is long lasting and wonder if it would be safer than clonazepam.


Just been re-reading my posts throughout this trying to find answers. What worked the best, etc... As what I'm going through now, this reply jumped out at me since it seemed these combo's were by far better than the past 2 days. (At least no extreme dry mouth like this. This is insane.)

Also a few warnings about switching to Klonopin. Perhaps I should have listened. Was just trying to find someway to help with a Dr. who seems to want to stay Very low regarding anything.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2013, 02:43:35 am »
Hiya [...].  Yes, I did mean using Ativan and Valium at the same time just as Ashton describes. 
I'm not sure where the lithium fits in.

Hi [...],
Yes, that makes sense then.
I mentioned lithium only because it is long lasting and wonder if it would be safer than clonazepam.


Just been re-reading my posts throughout this trying to find answers. What worked the best, etc... As what I'm going through now, this reply jumped out at me since it seemed these combo's were by far better than the past 2 days. (At least no extreme dry mouth like this. This is insane.)

Also a few warnings about switching to Klonopin. Perhaps I should have listened. Was just trying to find someway to help with a Dr. who seems to want to stay Very low regarding anything.

Here is a link to Dr Ashton's taper of 6mg xanax cross over to 10mg valium.
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm#s1

It is a stepwise cross over from high dose xanax to valium.
You end up on both xanax and valium for a while until u cross over completely to valium.
Of course, you could adjust this to whatever is comfortable for u.
Maybe u could show this schedule to your dr?

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2013, 05:00:45 am »
I agree, that is a great crossover and taper plan.

One problem so far, is that most Doctors argue against this Valium equivilant ratio, saying it's 10:1 or less. The other problem is finding a Dr. who will write anything over 30 mg of Valium. (At least my experience so far.)

Maybe that is why I had several issues when being pulled out at the ER and given 10 mg of Valium and then a Small script of Ativan. While I was technically Xanax (Benzo) free for 4 days, (maybe more counting the 5 day detox using Valium), that is where the ER Dr. and apparently the new Pdoc want to seem to start. Valium being the last thing I was taking.

Yet I was only taking it for 5 days, 60 mg for a day and a half, and then a Very Rapid taper from the Valium the last 3 days of detox. That wasn't actually a long time. No one has mentioned getting back to Xanax and doing just what you posted above.

2 Pdocs, and neither has thought about a gradual crossover. My pdoc for 14 years never did any gradual crossover. Always a Direct switch, and apparently this new Dr. is the same way of thought. I guess that since I was detoxed in 5 days that they must think that part doesn't matter now. I have no idea.

I do know family and friends are tired of hearing about it. That much I know because they say it. I try and let most of that slide. Heck, I'm Tired of thinking about it or going through this. But yet I also know they couldn't undertstand having never gone through this. To them it's just like all should be well after 2 weeks.

They have no idea about Benzo Withdrawl, Tolerance, etc... I don't think anyone could unless they have gone through it. It's why I come here for advice, thoughts, etc... It's always, Why am I am on the internet so much, researching, etc... they don't Get it. Heck, now I'm afraid I'm going to tee off the new Pdoc, calling in asking about side effects, not liking a change, etc... Yet, spending over $300 in 10 days, I think I'm entilted to call or ask questions, tell how I fell about a change, etc... I only get 10 mins and maybe 9 at that to state what is going on. At 9 mins, he is walking to the door and walking you out.

(I see it as the old saying, Knowledge is Power. Had I researched my own problem more years ago, perhaps I could have avoided this mess. I just knew I felt better and so be it. Odd from a person who Loves research in general. I forgot my own issue and the drugs precribed. This possiblity was never really discussed. I partially blame my Doc, and Myself!) But, what's done is done... Now to navigate through it, which I found after a 5 day Detox Center that I couldn't handle. At least in the eyes of an ER Dr. And I honestly agreed in silence. Trauma was an understatement.

So, back to the Main issue. Getting stable for a few weeks to Breathe and relax.

He said to stay on Klonopin, but if things got too bad to go to the ER. He would not be back until Monday.
I feel like the Klonopin has increased Anxiety 10 fold, dry mouth that is insane, irritable, depression increased, etc...

Although Ativan wasn't the drug I detoxed from, never really had it period, it has seemed to be the best with valium since being brought out by the ER.

So I have another decision. Go to the ER, not going to be the same one because that place is Overloaded and 8 hour wait is minimal, and tell them what is currently going on? Perhaps print the above table for tapering and take it with me to the ER? perhaps I can get a script for Ativan to make it until next week to see my pdoc, or fire him as well?

Or stick with Klonopin and pray it gets better?

Edit:
I also know that I have a big anxiety problem. That's how this started regarding meds to begin with. Regardless of the reason why things went haywire in 98 after being put to sleep, sedated, for wisdom teeth removal, I can now reflect back far back in my life where there were many signs of an anxiety problem. Also OCD began to crop up when I hit puberty. I first thought as an athlete, it was typical baseball superstition. I found out in high school, it was more than that. i couldn't understand what was going on. Depression hit me bad around that time as well. It came and went. OCD I kind of fought off most of it in my ealry to mid 20's own my own. Some residual occasionally is left over. Minor compared to others I have seen with OCD. My Nephew has it Bad. I was never that bad with it, especially at his current age.

I just thought about these things after reading the post about the person 15 months off and struggling. Wondering when, etc... My anxiety plus rapid detox in itself, likely made me have such a trauma filled 4 days. it didn't help any I know. But could have been just the shock off such a rapid detox in itself. My former Doc and I talked the other day about what she said was such a deep rooted anxiety, that I would likely have to deal with that the rest of my life. Worries me about coming off long term. Yet I never had any counseling, coping sessions before everything blew out of control. So I don't know if I could have overcome things before crap hit the fan for good. Just rambling thoughts. I also do not have any resources when/if I ever get stable and do this again. I'm broke now, barely hanging on for another month. I can't just put things aside, I won't even have a place to go or stay. For now, I just keep telling myself there will be a way, there always has been, etc... But in reality, things are closing out fast. I live on Faith alone...
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 05:48:49 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2013, 07:11:19 am »
i am a person who loves research in general too and i still didn't realize that coming off of 30mg vlaium, 2 mg xanax and a shit load of soma was considered a c/t until i found this forum and can't believe i didn't know about this forum for these last ten plus years.

and yes the klonopin and have a reverse affect during times like this of all you are going through. when i came home from the detox, the dry mouth was so excruciating i could hardly talk. i drank "real water" by the buckets and that really was the only water that helped it a little-- all other water just made it worse. felt like there was a serpent pulling my brain, head and neck back. was burning up everywhere.

i think the extra dry mouth is from the brain being so hot. it's on fire after a c/t. get the 'real water' and that will help a lot. it's in a blue plastic bottle.

i do think it's a good idea to get on both the ativan and valium and then so a switch over to just valium for the rest of your taper if you can find a Doc who will do that for you.

didn't you say you had been on xanax for 14 years? why are you worrying about that you will have deep rooted anxiety for the rest of your life? i know you've had lot's of things happen trauma wise. but being on the benzo's only makes all those 'underlying issue's' much worse and they tend to go away once off and out of withdrawals and all healed.

good luck finding a doctor who can give you what you need to get stable.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2013, 02:01:44 pm »
Yes, the Paxil is for the extreme Anxiety. Been off and on this for the 14 years of being medicated. Had been off through the summer.


Hiya Cochese.  Here at BenzoBuddies we tend to focus mainly on benzos but please be aware that Paxil is very well known for nasty withdrawal effects.  Paxil's withdrawal effects can be remarkably similar to benzo withdrawal.  Of course not every gets WD effects (either from Paxil or from benzos) but it is something most definitely to think about because of the intermittent way you have been using Paxil.

There are many threads on Surviving Antidepressants about Paxil and here is just one of them.  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/405-tips-for-tapering-off-paxil-paroxetine/

There are even whole web sites about Paxil withdrawal such as Paxil Progress, Quit Paxil and others.

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.