Author Topic: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.  (Read 8656 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2013, 10:30:01 am »
hey cochese,

what an ordeal you've been through and i can relate to everything and then some. i finally got off over 20 years klonopin in a very brutal cold turkey and my brain is still beating down on me to this day and it's 19 months. now. i've also done plenty of other c/t's in my life and too many to mention because i just could not taper from the klonopin in a slow and right fashion. i did do a rapid taper from klonopin and switched over to valium for a few months but ended up doing the c/t from 30mg valium, 2 mg xanax and 1750 mg soma. i am definitely kindling/ i am doing much better than i was and i don't know how i didn't die from that horrid trauma that i know i still have to deal with when i am stronger?

so i really think they are right to not get on the klonopin but to please find a doctor as soon as possible (if you can and you can if you really want to) too help you get on the right amount of valium and do a slow micro taper or liquid titration. i agree the amount of valium they have you on is too low. i think you probably need about 60mg. but i can't be prescriptive on here so i do think you probably need more to stabalize and i also think that if you take klonopin you could possibly feel worse.

it could possibly back fire. it's very strong. i think valium is the best choice and the right amount and taper very slowly. i should have reintstated on the 4th day in that detox. it's so funny and odd how all of a sudden when you're in that state of withdrawals all of a sudden you have more anxiety to deal with and underlying issue's all the medical community starts throwing those darts at you. they just can't or won't comprehend the down regulation of GABA that occurs and the horrible and dangerous symptoms that arise from that.

either that or they start to feel scared for some reason because they've never seen such a thing before. probably both. idiots. all right, kidding kind of and they should experience this for a milla-second and then talk. i've said a prayer for you that you find the right Doc to help you with this! i'm glad you have some ativan to help you feel somewhat calm but i really think it's the valium that will help you taper all the way through and it will and like Brabran says the valium accumulates slowly to a max concentration in you.

good luck,
[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2013, 02:09:41 am »
I am not knowledgeable enough to offer any advice, but I did want to say my heart goes out to you.  At least you know we all believe you.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2013, 03:18:57 am »
IMO, I would never switch to klonopin because I have seen and read it causing some of the longest lasting symptoms.
Give the valium time because it took my mom a week to get somewhat stable on 6mg valium per day from 1.5mg Lorazepam per day.
After about 3 weeks she was doing very well.
1mg lorazepam is = 10mg Valium.

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2013, 04:45:35 am »
Thank you.

I have moved my return appt. up with new Dr. to tomorrow at noon, (2 days earlier), as I'm struggling on the 30 mg of Valium. We have some things to talk about for sure. If I didn't have a few Ativan to mix in this past 7 days I would be insane, or completely back like I was after the 6 day detox. (That wasn't a [...] site that ended up with an ER Dr, saying enough...)

My Anxiety, some OCD, is So Deep Seated it's unreal. My former Doc who basically put/convienced me to go into detox called yesterday to check on me. Had a long talk, and she agreed about the Anxiety being deeply rooted. That it was going to be Extremely Hard doing this. Not only the WD process itself, but the deep anxiety would cause things for me to be even worse. We both recalled some things from the past 14 years of her treating me, and me telling about recalling some possible issues far earlier on that I pushed aside or thought were irrevelant to the time the full blown Panic Attack first occured in 1998. That happened after being put to sleep during oral surgery to have wisdom teeth removed. i remember rainbow colors, and also myself waking up moaning and hearing the dentist telling the assistant to crank up whatever they used to sedate me. What happened after for almost a day is something I've struggled to explain to people or even know what it may be.

After researching a lot of Benzo WD symptoms, I think i finally found something that comes as close to what I felt like in medical terms. "Akathisia"...
My Mom gave a vistoril late that night after consulting with the dentist and it did pull me out of it. (First Drug I had ever taken in 33 years of life.) However the next night when eating and watching TV, after feeling Fine all day, I began to feel like I couldn't swallow and then not breathe. All in a moments notice, out of the blue. If I went and laid down and could fall asleep, I would make it through the night. However that only lasted 2 days. It just became more intense, and a solid week of going to the ER at nights began. Each time Ativan pulling me out. It ended with an ER Doc telling me that I had every test done over a week and I was medically healthy, but had Anxiety and Panic Disorder.

I was shocked to say the least, because it wasn't what I had thought it was. I thought Panic or Anxiety meant people running around screaming, etc... This was like a vaccum pulling air out of my lungs, etc... But I was sent to a GP who began Xanax .5 and Paxil. After a month or 2, decided I needed a Pdoc as he didn't feel comfortable enough to keep prescribing these types of Meds and said it was better to see someone (Pdoc) who were experts in this, etc...

I've been on since, except the 4 days after 11/5 from the Detox. Held at 4 mg of Xanax without any troubles since 2002. Took a sneeze and a hosital stay loaded with steriods and Bronchs for 2 weeks to completely blow the Xanax use out of water... :(  I only knew to fight the side effects of the Decadron, Medrol, Pred, and likely the scare of the Bronch itself, with Xanax. I didn't know what else to do. Next thing I knew I was taking 6 to 8+ at times all summer. I was higher than 6 mgs easily during August, and tried a Detox Center myself because I knew this wasn't good. Didn't even tell my Doc I was going. I didn't make it 3 1/2 to 4 days and left AMA and got the heck home.

Since the first of Sept. I brought down and held myself at 6 mgs, (I just stayed at 6 mgs by trying to judge where I was when I left the Detox as they told me I was down to 6 or 6 1/2 Ativan as they started me at 12 when i arrived???)  Feeling Tolerance, my Docs pressure and advice, I agreed to try a Detoc Center oncee again and told myself this was it! I'm done with Benzos.

Center immediately gave me 20 of valium upon arrival at 3 pm, and another 20 mg at bedtime. I believe they did that the next day and a half, 60 mg, and then began the cuts. I didn't notice Much until day 3, as I became a little weaker, shaking was Different and a lot more of it. Sleep was not as good. The 100 mgs of Vistoril didn't really help much. Last 2 days were only 5 mg at bedtime only. Then I was released on 11/5, with my last 5 mg dose the night before.

I walked downstairs with wobbling legs the fursther i got and opened the door, and the rest was devastating. Anxiety was 1000%, the World looked different, I couldn't walk, couldn't feel the ground, etc..., You name it, it was coming hard. Still amazed I made the 2 hour trip home. Even though all the mess coming back, I told me friends who picked me up to look at me. Please don't ever let this happen to any of you. That even though things were bad, I would die before touching another Benzo. (I was so scared before going to the Detox Center, after having a Brief encounter of one just 6 weeks prior, that I contemplated another not so good thought to avoid it all. I was very serious.) But coming back after Detox, I told everyone this would have to kill me first because I would not give in... I didn't recognise my house. It looked squashed. When i walked in, it was like i had never been there or it had been years. I couldn't feel me walking on the floor, perception distortion began, etc...  I sat down at my computer and it took me 5 mins to remember how to work it!

I had a small window later that night where things calmed just a little for 3 hours and thought, wow, windows already? This will be ok. ([...] sure that maybe a little residual valium had something to do with that possibly?) After that 3 hours though, things went downhill in a blink of an eye. Literally, as I know most all of you know to well about. Next morning, blood red eyes, the runs all day, no sleep and never did over 15 mins in 4 days, vice crushing headache, basically almost became catatonic in some ways and would try and fight. That wonderful hollow hearing, ears poping, same funky smell and taste. Everything smells and taste like crap. Some call it a "tinny" like sensation? I don't have a name for it myself. (I had basically every symptom known so no need to list them all as i caught myself just doing. Page isn't long enough...)

I wound up in the ER with the Doc looking at me and immediately saying enough. 10 mg of Valium to half pull me out. Changed mind and wrote Ativan 2 mg to be taken 4 times on day 1, 3 on day 2, 2 day 3, and 1 on day 4, and off again. That didn't make any sense to me as it would be just as fast or faster getting right back to where I was. Instead I made the decision to take enough to feel as good as I could, and my brother had some he spared until I could find a new Pdoc closer to home to talk to about this, etc..., As my current Pdoc is/was 200 miles away at the coast. Plus she wanted me to keep going, but also knowing I had Zero support, almost completely broke, would lose my rental home with no where to go, etc... Homeless and going through Horrid WD's?

I met the new Dr. last Wed. $200 first visit, and it was the usual first time stuff. How was childhood, do you do other drugs, been in legal trouble before, yada... Then got to the problem. Prescribed 30 mg of Valium, which I kind of asked questions about, but in a nice way because I didn't think it matched up. Said he would help get stable and then work on a slow taper.

Now likely another $100 tomorrow, and so far it seems going back on Valium at 30 mg is a huge problem. Seems to work maybe 4 hours, shaking gets horrible, legs again become wobbly and weak, anxiety goes through the roof. That taste and smell is always knocking on the door and sometimes creep back in. Along with hearing issues, although very sparsely.



Something has to give tomorrow. I just want to be fully stable again, at least through the holidays. They have always been one of my worst periods anyway, and I would like to enjoy them a little. bring my Mom home from assisted living during this time, etc... Maybe begin to try and tackle this deep seated Anxiety through whatever means to help me be better prepared for a taper, and then maybe begin a Smart taper at the start of the new year. (Would like to work some through the holidays if i could get stable enough to make a little money to help out, get some things in order like where I might stay when going through this again, because I will have to give up everything. No support from my brother, couldn't stay there. I do everything, always have. Took care of my Dad for 5 years that he had cancer (And my Mom at the same time), with no help from siblings. I have continued to take care of my Mom since 2009, and even though she is in assisted living, I still have my hands full with her.

So tomorrow I have to be a little firmer, yet not too much, regarding getting stable. My weight needs to get back up, etc... My mind has to be more mentally prepared.
Whether that's an increase in Valium or a switch to Klonopin. (I know people say K is a beast to get off of, but aren't they all? What I just went through,and partially still, was a beast.)

So, $100 and 15 mins to make a case. (I will be broke.) One that I don't what is best or not to suggest. Only how I want to feel, or at least as close as I can. Any change in meds, valium or a total switch, I just hope no more easing to it. I may take the Ashton Manual this time and kindly ask about equivalent doses, etc... Money is going to run out and I need to get this right fast.

Prayers are very welcome. (Sorry for the mini Bio.)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 04:51:17 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2013, 10:45:18 am »
IMO, I would never switch to klonopin because I have seen and read it causing some of the longest lasting symptoms.
Give the valium time because it took my mom a week to get somewhat stable on 6mg valium per day from 1.5mg Lorazepam per day.
After about 3 weeks she was doing very well.
1mg lorazepam is = 10mg Valium.

Hiya [...].  It seems that Cochese is going in and out of severe withdrawal and getting all sorts of different advice from doctors.  I've seen situations like that in which it's really difficult to get stable.  As diazepam is so slow to build up that it can be very hard to know when a person hits the right dose and there is a chance that severe symptoms may emerge before the diazepam has built up.

Perhaps it would be an idea if he went back to Ativan and got stable on that for a month and then does a slow cross over to diazepam (at the sort of cross over rate recommended by Ashton).

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2013, 03:46:56 pm »
IMO, I would never switch to klonopin because I have seen and read it causing some of the longest lasting symptoms.
Give the valium time because it took my mom a week to get somewhat stable on 6mg valium per day from 1.5mg Lorazepam per day.
After about 3 weeks she was doing very well.
1mg lorazepam is = 10mg Valium.

Hiya [...].  It seems that Cochese is going in and out of severe withdrawal and getting all sorts of different advice from doctors.  I've seen situations like that in which it's really difficult to get stable.  As diazepam is so slow to build up that it can be very hard to know when a person hits the right dose and there is a chance that severe symptoms may emerge before the diazepam has built up.

Perhaps it would be an idea if he went back to Ativan and got stable on that for a month and then does a slow cross over to diazepam (at the sort of cross over rate recommended by Ashton).

Hi [...],
What about using ativan and valium at the same time like the ashton schedules for cross over?
What about lithium?
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2013, 04:00:35 pm »
IMO, I would never switch to klonopin because I have seen and read it causing some of the longest lasting symptoms.
Give the valium time because it took my mom a week to get somewhat stable on 6mg valium per day from 1.5mg Lorazepam per day.
After about 3 weeks she was doing very well.
1mg lorazepam is = 10mg Valium.

Hiya [...].  It seems that Cochese is going in and out of severe withdrawal and getting all sorts of different advice from doctors.  I've seen situations like that in which it's really difficult to get stable.  As diazepam is so slow to build up that it can be very hard to know when a person hits the right dose and there is a chance that severe symptoms may emerge before the diazepam has built up.

Perhaps it would be an idea if he went back to Ativan and got stable on that for a month and then does a slow cross over to diazepam (at the sort of cross over rate recommended by Ashton).

Hi [...],
What about using ativan and valium at the same time like the ashton schedules for cross over?
What about lithium?

Hiya [...].  Yes, I did mean using Ativan and Valium at the same time just as Ashton describes. 

I'm not sure where the lithium fits in.

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2013, 04:02:31 pm »
Hiya [...].  Yes, I did mean using Ativan and Valium at the same time just as Ashton describes. 
I'm not sure where the lithium fits in.

Hi [...],
Yes, that makes sense then.
I mentioned lithium only because it is long lasting and wonder if it would be safer than clonazepam.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2013, 07:33:35 pm »
Hiya [...].  Yes, I did mean using Ativan and Valium at the same time just as Ashton describes. 
I'm not sure where the lithium fits in.

Hi [...],
Yes, that makes sense then.
I mentioned lithium only because it is long lasting and wonder if it would be safer than clonazepam.
Lithium is an antipsychotic, not a benzo.  I think you mean Librium.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2013, 10:01:57 pm »
Hiya [...].  Yes, I did mean using Ativan and Valium at the same time just as Ashton describes. 
I'm not sure where the lithium fits in.

Hi [...],
Yes, that makes sense then.
I mentioned lithium only because it is long lasting and wonder if it would be safer than clonazepam.
Lithium is an antipsychotic, not a benzo.  I think you mean Librium.
Thanks [...],
That's the difference I never knew and thought they were the same thing..
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.