Told to maybe post this over here for any insight or help.

[[Buddie]]

Was originally posted in the Rapid and Xanax sections;


Well an update since I haven't been on for a bit...

Made the decision with my Pdoc to go to the 7 day Rapid Detox Center on 10/29.
At the Center, they switched me to Valium and began.

Released 11/5. Oh boy... Could hardly walk, visual perception was Way off, hardly recognized the world in a way.
Panic was extreme, hearing auditory issuses began (ears popping, everything sounding like coming through a tunnel, even Myself!)
Muscle jerks, sometimes locks, shakey, etc...

Didn't eat since 11/5.
No Sleep since discharge. Eyes became extremely bloodshot, pupils dilated. Different visual issues in general. (Depended on which hour or min.)
Auditory issues became worse and changes in waves.

Things continued to change, for the worst. Extreme Withdrawl (Horrid!) set in. Don't know how to explain that. Eyes continued to look crimson red, haven't shut them for 4 days. Muscles did what they wanted to, sometimes meant doing nothing, or firing off at random. Color changes, visual isssues with Eyes continued to get worse.

Diarrhea began the next day and wouldn't let up, or be stopped.

Nervous system? Shot. Completely shot... Talking to myself, thinking wierd things, nerves like being on fire. All I can was sit and wait for each new pounding issue to arrive. And they did... Vise like crushing headache, everything smelled the same and not a good smell either. Numb through body that sometimes I didn't know i had lungs, etc... There were times I had to crawl. Walking 5 feet would exhaust me. Fingers and leg muscles would kind of lock up on me. (Either shaking or that locking up stuff.)

Basically a Ton of every other Withdrawl issues. Something new each day.

Those who have ever went through this, I'm sure you know what I mean. What I went through could only be decribed as Horrid!

More disappointing, my Pdoc kept telling me over the phone it was mostly Me. I needed to get out to counseling, etc... I said I would love to, When I could even walk!

To make a long story short, because most who have gone through rapid CT's, expecially at doses like mine were, know the mind shattering, phyiscal Horrid experience that I'm talking about...

Had my brother take me to the next towns ER on 11/08. My Pdoc had called before we left and said I was in Trauma, told you it was going to be hell for awhile, etc... Then she basically started on me, also saying it's mostly my panic. Dimissed most other things as being a cause from this. I was going to have to ride it out, get busy, etc...  That hurt!!! I thought she of all people, being an addiction specialist, would under the True Withdrawls. Not dismiss them. Agreed that I should go to ER and have blood work done to se if i was dehydrated, but hoped they would take me in Pschy unit for a few days, then out to somewhere to continue is this condition.

At the ER, once in the back and the Dr. came in and saw me, he tried to ask me a few questions to which I sounded off to him, then just looked at me, spoke to my Brother and asked if this was me or since the Detox? Then immediately said, "You are coming out!" I was in crisis mode, couldn't believe i hadn't had a seizure yet. But brought me 10 mg of Valium. Explained to my brother how Dangerous shape I was in and how these meds have to tapered slower. Mentioned about doing a Valium detox as Outpatient there. But when time for discharge the nurse said he changed his mind and wanted to Ativan instead after he looked it up on their computer. 2mg 4 times a day on day 1, 3 the next, 2 and then 1. I told my Brother that was insane! It's not a slow taper... I had already began to got back into a half out and in stage, which the nurse said he was only getting me out of crisis stage.

So now I'm stuck!

The Ativan only works a little, plus seems to take 2 hours or more to do anything, thta's mostly to put me to sleep. (That part I don't mind since I hadn't in almost a week. Hearing, taste and smell issues still come and go aften, Hands and legs very shaky still. Muscle will still jerk at times.
And today she called and went after me again. Wanted me to get on Seroquel XR, call the mental health place here to see if they could get me to one of their hospitals, and how most of this was just anxiety, Very little WD! 

(I had hoped and mentioned about going back to Valium like was done at Detox, and stablizing me and began a Long Taper. Nope! Take the Ativan as the ER said and get into mental health. Did i want to be a drug addict, yada? I said of course not! Said I still had several Xanax she wrote to get me to the Detox place right on the counter, and through everything I had just gone through that I never thought or wanted to pick them up and take them. I was going to die, so be it.)

But that is her plans/wants for me. Blows me away after 14 years of cut up great relationship. I thought as an addiction specialist, she of all people, would not discount Benzo Withdrawls. The vision issues, Auditory issues and small change, etc... was just Me! I said well you should have been Here to watch what had happened the past 4 and a 1/2 days. Only took the ER Dr. 1 min to look at me and pull the plug. I'm in shock now, by her...

I have read others on here and various boards talk about having to go through the similar thing with their Dr's. "Can't be just the Wd's, etc..." Just never thought it happen to me and my Pdoc.

So now a decision, and will have to be a Fast one!
Try and hold until tomorrow and begin calling around to other Pdocs around here to see if they will help with a crossover and long taper, (I'm 200 miles from my current Pdoc, why I mentioned around Here.) I have enough Ativan to try and get into another Dr. early this week.
Or let her now antipschy me up and try and get me into Mental Health Hospital?

All thoughts would be appreciated. 

I couldn't even begin to explain the WD's that were happening in detail. Just that friends had saw me and they just dropped their jaw. I know some of you do know, especially after a 6 Day Rapid Detox from 6 mg of Xanax that had built up over the summer due to other health issues and tons of steriods from the Lung Dr., 4 mg since 2002, 3 mg between 1999-2001, and .5 in 1999.

:And my reply to someone who mentioned the possibilty of kindling:

Technically I guess I've already reinstated. ER Dr. gave me 10 mg of Valium which almost instantly brought me half way back to life. (Audio issues cleared, smell and taste cleared, I Slept! wheww, so good. Finally Eat something today, first time in a week.

ER Dr. mentioned at the time that we (me and him, or the Hospitals Outpatient program), would do a Valium taper from there. Yet when dischared the nurse came in and said he changed his mind.

Wrote Ativan 2mg. 10 pills. 4 day 1, 3 day 2, 2 day 3, 1 day4. She said he had looked it up on their computer and decided we wanted this. I could barely see after we left, but my Brother said he had detox from Alcolhol on the sheet. (Now I see that he just plugged into the Hospital Addiction site to come up with this.) Nurse said he just got you out of Crisis mode, not all the way. The 10 mg of Valium given at 10pm had started to give way around 4 am next morning. So I'm using the Ativan right now, just not at his directions. His taper seems about as Insane as, well, another more Rapid detox.

It's working ok. Perfect? No. Have to dose the Ativan a lot more frequent. Hands are still a big issue with the shakiness, and occasionally the sound and taste will break through.

So, tomorrow I'm going to call around to some Dr's here in the UpState of SC and began asking questions. Get an appointment, whatever... As long as it's a Dr. who will do a Valium Crossover and plan with Me about how and when to make cuts. (I'm looking for, the Slower the better.)

I can't handle going Right back into that fire at the moment. (Nor do I think anyone around me want to see that again.) Still trying to not think about it.
 I'll D/C my current Dr. No need for me to try and get someone to have me put in a Mental place because she doesn't fully know about Benzo Withdrawl? My body and nerves were on 100% alert if that makes sense. Don't know how to describe it in words. Horrid WD's. Enough that the ER looked at me and within 30 secs said, "You're coming out!" That how dangerous that is, and tapers were the correct way, not Shock and Awe.

Thanks for the tips on what to ask.

[[Buddie]]

I was a social worker in a mental hospital for several years, before working as a "traveling social worker" visiting clients of a non-profit social service agency who were in various psych units.

I would strongly discourage you from going to a mental hospital. If you are having problems dealing with life now, being around folks who are bipolar and in a manic state, or people in the midst of psychotic episodes, well, that's really just going to screw with your mind. If you can't deal with being at home and really feel you need to be in a secure environment, then I'd strongly recommend looking for another detox unit.

Most people who go to detox units are fast tapered off and seem to have the same experience you did. My recommendation would be to "doctor shop" until you find someone who's willing to taper you SLOWLY using Valium. That's really what is the most recommended way to come off benzos. Ativan and Xanax are short-acting, stronger benzos with a shorter half-life than Valium, Librium or Klonopin. Valium has the longest half-life of them all, and as a result it's easier to make cuts on Valium.

Hang in there. If you can find a compassionate doc who's willing to work with you, I'd really recommend that route. Another detox experience isn't going to be much different than what you've already experienced...

[[Buddie]]

I am agreeing with [...]. Find a doctor to supply you with benzos so you can SLOW taper in a sane fashion. It may be hard to find a doc to give you Valium, but even with a short acting benzo, the titration section has people that can teach you to crush, liquify, and administer your total daily dose in 3-4 doses to avoid interdose withdrawal symptoms and keep you much more comfortable during the taper process.

Any institutionalization at this point is likely to rapid taper you (again) and/or fill you up with a whole bunch more psychotropic drugs, not to mention labeling you with a major mental health diagnosis based upon your benzo withdrawal symptoms (and then drug you accordingly with antidepressants and/or antipsychotics). Ever been in a mental hospital or psych ward? I have. I can usually stand it for about 12-24 hours before the place literally starts MAKING me crazy. Doing this at home if you can is by far more desirable. Not even a sane person can stay sane for long in a mental hospital. And if you refuse your drugs - holy cow - they will get them into you anyway. And then there is always the silent threat of shock therapy for 'difficult' patients. Unless you are suicidal or a danger to others or totally incapable of being in contact with reality, hospital is not a great place to be.

[[Buddie]]

OMGosh, I'm so very sorry you are going through this.

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

[[Buddie]]

Hello Cochese.  There's a lot you have to contend with and I am sorry to hear it.  You mention going to get a doc who will provide some diazepam to do your own taper with.  That sounds like a good idea. 

Sometimes diazepam can be very hard to get because U.S. docs rend to view it as a particularly dangerous benzo.  If you're having problems getting diazepam (and I have heard of people repeatedly being turned away by docs who won't prescribe it for them) then you may wish to consider clonazepam which is what many people here use. 

[[Buddie]]

Thanks for the replies!

I agree about finding another Dr. who will Work with me on a long taper.

There is nothing psychotic about me at all. Never has been. Just went through a 6 day Rapid Detox after being on Xanax for 14 years.
Got out and just got Slammed.

If I don't find someone else and go by my current docs thinking, I won't be going to another Detox. Rather, I will be back into full blown withdrawls very soon, That is what she wants, then for somewhere to keep me while I go through the Horrid mess. She truly believes most was just Me, anxiety, maybe a "Little" withdrawl. Grab some Seroquel XR and start now, then call the mental health line, etc...  The auditory and eye issues were just me.  (One example of things she said on the phone.)

I guess the small taper at the Detoxed where they used Valium had me fooled a little about what was to come, since that transition was very smooth there. I can see the reasons why it is a first choice by many to taper from.

I just Cannot go right back through that now after being pulled by the ER Dr.

I know even with tapering that I will have to meet some of the withdrawls again, or all, but hopefully some will come in steps as I taper. Also would like the time to get my Body better prepared for this, and my mind as well.

Done deal. Tomorrow begins a day to find another Dr. Not a whole lot to choose from in the SC Upstate I don't think? A few in Greenville. Thought about contacting my Nephews Pdoc in Greenville first. Seemed nice, maybe in his 50's. Was very Patient with my Nephew.

I just want a Chance. Would like to also take the time during a taper to go ahead and begin some CBT, counseling regarding dealing with panic and anxiety, etc... All the things we wanted but after and I had no idea of the Intensity and Wide Range of things that hit me and wouldn't let up. Only got worse, and would wait on the next thing that would add to the list that came out of nowhere. Some staying througout and others coming and going without warning.

My Dr. was right last Friday on the phone. Her first words were, "You're in Trauma. Told you it was going to be hell."
Yet an hour later it's Me?  And she's known me for over 14 years. Just anxiety and some panic at times.
I would like to Ask Her why she left me on this for 14 years! Now blame Me. I have a huge part, but...

Time to find a new Dr.
Plus now I am somewhat ready. I had no idea what was to come this time,
i'm surprised many who do that method, especially lonng term people like me, don't come out of such rapid detoxes without getting PSTD.

[[Buddie]]

Hello Cochese.  There's a lot you have to contend with and I am sorry to hear it.  You mention going to get a doc who will provide some diazepam to do your own taper with.  That sounds like a good idea. 

Sometimes diazepam can be very hard to get because U.S. docs rend to view it as a particularly dangerous benzo.  If you're having problems getting diazepam (and I have heard of people repeatedly being turned away by docs who won't prescribe it for them) then you may wish to consider clonazepam which is what many people here use.

I wonder why they view it this way? As opposed to any other benzo.

[[Buddie]]

Hello Cochese.  There's a lot you have to contend with and I am sorry to hear it.  You mention going to get a doc who will provide some diazepam to do your own taper with.  That sounds like a good idea. 

Sometimes diazepam can be very hard to get because U.S. docs rend to view it as a particularly dangerous benzo.  If you're having problems getting diazepam (and I have heard of people repeatedly being turned away by docs who won't prescribe it for them) then you may wish to consider clonazepam which is what many people here use.

I wonder why they view it this way? As opposed to any other benzo.

Valium has been around much longer and developed a bad name for itself, even tho it is the least dangerous of the benzos.
Dr's will not prescribe it to the elderly due to the sedating effects and can cause falls.
It seems u do better on valium, so why not find a dr to prescribe the valium and do a microtaper?

[[Buddie]]

bump

[[Buddie]]

Just an update:

Managed to have enough Ativan and did get an appt. with a new Dr. last Wednesday.

Seemed like an OK Dr. Went through the whole Life situation things, etc..., just like most first time appts. with a Dr.

Explained when and why I began taking Xanax, and how over the summer it blew out of control, how I went to 6 day Detox and the nightmare that followed and ended with the ER trip and being pulled half way out, etc...

He agreed to try and help me get stable and then develop a slow taper.

He asked what they did at the Detox, Regarding Valium, Dose. I told him I thought they gave me 60 mgs to start because I was trying to hold at 6 mg of Xanax with Interdose going on when I arrived.

Well, he started me on 30 mg of Valium, 10 times 3 a day. I said, "Isn't that a little low? Can we at least go to 40?" He said to just begin with this and come back in 8 days to see how it's doing.

It's doing like crap!

Was certainly better on the Ativan, just took Way to much to stablize. The Valium seems much different trying to go back up to stablize than being given it at Detox to come down from the Xanax.

It hits fairly quickly, some drowsiness, then after 2 hours the Anxiety/WD's begin to come back fairly intense. Depressing!
He put me back on 20 mg of Paxil to try and get ahold of the anxiety. This morning was the worst day as i awoke trembling with Very dry mouth, anxiety, etc...
Put in a call about what to do and said it would be pasted along to him. No return call by 4 pm so called back, got after hours voicemail. Got the Dr. on Call and he said he couldn't make any changes on weekends and just keep taking the Valium at 30 mgs like the Dr. prescribed. Said I was going to have Anxiety/WD's because that's what Benzo's do, and just go through it until i can see or talk to the Dr. on Monday, whenever. (My next scheduled appt. is on the 21st. Won't make it that long...)

So, Stuck again... 
I knew 30 mg wasn't going to do it as i was on 6 mg of Xanax, and given 60 mg of Valium the first 2 days at Detox.
Just kind of stumped why even a 10 mg of Valium isn't lasting even 4 hours.

So maybe not Wise, but decided to jump back to Ativan this evening to at least try and get a day of somewhat calm back. I have enough to maybe last until sometime Sunday. Then i guess I could jump back to the Valium, maybe increase it, until I can see him again and re-talk this.

Was surprised he didn't ask for the records from my former Pdoc. All he wanted was the records from the Detox place to see what they had done, med doses, etc...

Did get a call from my former Pdoc (Though doesn't know is now former), checking up on me. I told her about going to the other Dr. Said she was fine with that, and that I needed someone closer to home. She doesn't believe this is going to work. She also believes I will have to be on some kind of Meds the rest of my life, just not benzos, because of extreme anxiety issues. Agreed that I live in the worst State to get help and that there isn't much options for me.

She may be right in some ways. Told her that upon refelection, that maybe there is a lot I forgot at an early age, teen, etc... That the anxiety issues are likley deeper than thought. She believes it was a big part of what happened last week with the Intense WD's. Of course a lot of that is going to happen just by withdrawing from the drug itself. It should. But tackling the deep anxiety she thought would be a probllem for me Period. Taper, no taper, etc... Left me feeling hopeless, even though she was speaking and trying to honest and kind during the talk... That I was likely going to go through a repeat and may stay that way for a long time, or until I can learn or be taught how to overcome the extreme anxiety which she thinks has been manifesting itself throughout.

Said to talk to the new Dr., but maybe also look into getting into any kind of rehab, even though my shape will be Horrible like last week, and, well..., duh..

I may try and hold on and possibly ask about a switch to Klonopin just to hear his thoughts. From what I have read, would be better than this Ativan and although slower to act, would be more potent as far as holding anxiety with a long half life?

Any thoughts about the last part regarding a switch to K? Any thoughts about any of this?

I just want to stablize right now and think, enjoy a few weeks, then sit down and go over a taper plan. (Would like to at least enjoy the holidays right now, and I think I would need to in the mind frame I'm in at the moment before tackling this again. (But I have to stablize first before any of that can happen. I just don't know how much he is willing to Up the Valium, will it work, or ask for a change to K.)