How do I reinstate?

Hi all,

 

I just can't take it. The sever akathisia, depresion, tinnitus,  burning face, inner shaking, no calm and no sleep.

 

I need to reinstate I think. I am not making it..  How do I reinstate.  I was taking 10-15 mg of valium at night. I have 5 mg pills. Do I start with a half and add half mg every hour or do I just take it once and wait and see. I assume i get back on valium since that is what i took. I must get some relief.  It has been 9 months of torture.

 

I can't find it in ashton manual. Can you tell me where?

 

Please help me...  IslandGirl

 

I can slow taper next time

From what I've read you find the lowest dose which gives you enough relief to feel stabilized..

Hi Island girl:

 

I've been in the boat your in. I cold turkeyed off 8 mg of K after 20 years use. After 7 months I just couldn't take the ungodly 24/7 w/d. I was suicidal. I had to reinstate. I was in such bad shape.

 

I can only tell you what I did. I reinstated to a smaller dose ( in my case 1 mg) . I kept going up slowly 0.25mg at a time till I stabilized on 2 mg. even at 2 mg it took me a while to stabilize because I was so bad .  Once stable , I have SLOWLY  tapered my dose down . I cut and hold for 6 weeks. I am down to 0.75mg and am functioning. Some days are rougher than others but NOTHING like it was those 7 months after I cold turkeyed.

 

I have also added excersise and very healthy eating into my recovery. I can only excersise now though because I stabilized . I also have added supplements such as fish oil , vitami d , magnesium and some other supplements that I find helped me. Also , I had to go on an A/D due to the severity of my depression once I c/t'd off such a high dose of K. It has helped.

 

I believe , and others may disagree, that if someone is not getting any relief whatsoever months after an abrupt w/d to the point where they simply cannot take it anymore , that they have exhausted all their coping mechanisms as I did then they should reinstate and very very slowly taper off the drug.

 

Good luck to you Island girl

Does anyone know where it is covered in the Ashton manual?

Thanks Allen,

 

Do you only take it once a day?  When you added didi you add dailey until you stabilized?

Islandgirl.  I have thought about that myself but keep telling myself, I've been healing for (blank days) and now it's been over a year.That buyes another day. I've been having that conversation with myself every day,one day at a time. Now I'm at 14 months 8 days. Just make sure you get a good plan in place. Wait til one off the real knowledgeable BB jumps in with a good plan or just good advice. 

Hi Island girl:

 

I've been in the boat your in. I cold turkeyed off 8 mg of K after 20 years use. After 7 months I just couldn't take the ungodly 24/7 w/d. I was suicidal. I had to reinstate. I was in such bad shape.

 

I can only tell you what I did. I reinstated to a smaller dose ( in my case 1 mg) . I kept going up slowly 0.25mg at a time till I stabilized on 2 mg. even at 2 mg it took me a while to stabilize because I was so bad .  Once stable , I have SLOWLY  tapered my dose down . I cut and hold for 6 weeks. I am down to 0.75mg and am functioning. Some days are rougher than others but NOTHING like it was those 7 months after I cold turkeyed.

 

I have also added excersise and very healthy eating into my recovery. I can only excersise now though because I stabilized . I also have added supplements such as fish oil , vitami d , magnesium and some other supplements that I find helped me. Also , I had to go on an A/D due to the severity of my depression once I c/t'd off such a high dose of K. It has helped.

 

I believe , and others may disagree, that if someone is not getting any relief whatsoever months after an abrupt w/d to the point where they simply cannot take it anymore , that they have exhausted all their coping mechanisms as I did then they should reinstate and very very slowly taper off the drug.

 

Good luck to you Island girl

Sounds like good advise. Hang in there, hopefully you will get some more advice that will help you with your decision. Hang in there, I'm sure you will get more posts

Gizmo,

 

Have you had any windows?  I have not had a window and its been 9 months off valium.  My insides are shaking so much.  No sleep

 

 

No, not one. The closest to a window I have gotten was 2 1/2 weeks ago when I had foot surgery. They put me out for about an hour and for 2 days my pain was way better but came back with a vengeance.

This no windows stuff really sucks but 14 months is a lot of time invested. I going to rethink things at 18 months, lust like I did at 12 months. Thank God and BB for giving me the strength to keep moving my time back

Gizmo,

 

what do you belive is healing?

IG, Ashton was not a fan of reinstatement so doesn't provide any "how to" advice.

 

Here's an extract from the Ashton Manual Supplement:

 

"Reinstatement after withdrawal? Many benzodiazepine users who find themselves in this position have withdrawn too quickly; some have undergone 'cold turkey'. They think that if they go back on benzodiazepines and start over again on a slower schedule they will be more successful. Unfortunately, things are not so simple. For reasons that are not clear, (but perhaps because the original experience of withdrawal has already sensitised the nervous system and heightened the level of anxiety) the original benzodiazepine dose often does not work the second time round. Some may find that only a higher dose partially alleviates their symptoms, and then they still have to go through a long withdrawal process again, which again may not be symptom-free.

 

Updosing during withdrawal? Some people hit a "sticky patch" during the course of benzodiazepine withdrawal. In many cases, staying on the same dose for a longer period (not more than a few weeks) before resuming the withdrawal schedule allows them to overcome this obstacle. However, increasing the dose until a longed-for plateau of 'stability' arrives is not a good strategy. The truth is that one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system.

 

Pharmacologically, neither reinstating nor updosing is really rational. If withdrawal symptoms are still present, it means that the GABA/benzodiazepine receptors have not fully recovered (see above). Further benzodiazepines cause further down-regulation, strengthen the dependence, prolong withdrawal, delay recovery and may lead to protracted symptoms. In general, the longer the person remains on benzodiazepines the more difficult it is to withdraw. On the whole, anyone who remained benzodiazepine-free, or has remained on the same dose, for a number of weeks or months would be ill-advised to start again or to increase dosage. It would be better to devote the brain to solving individual symptoms and to finding sources of advice and support. Advice about how to deal with individual symptoms is given in the Manual (Chapter 3)."

 

This notwithstanding, there are positive reinstatement stories here on BB but it is highly individual & a lottery with high stakes.

I need to reinstate I think.

 

I've been close to desperate more than once in the last several months but have been able to refrain from reinstating. Today I'm not feeling like I'm at that point but I was a few days ago and that's how I posted. My sx are no better but I guess my tolerance and attitude are better after posting on BB. Trying to help other buddies helps us. I know you do the same because I  read several of your post way back to your beginning. Whatever you decide will be right for you, I do hope you get the strength to go a while longer.

I never thought Eastcoast would get better. I've read she did and I know she had a relapse but I don't think it was nothing like it was. When people stop posting there is no doubt in my mind there way better.

 

 

Edit: fixed quote box.

~Colin.

Gizmo,

 

what do you believe is healing?

Great info from Ihope. Good question. Healing for me is when I won't feel like I need any RX to stop the pain/tension. When I don't think about or doubt if this is wd sx. I'll know because I'm 60% better. I don't know why I picked 60%,it sounds like a place I wish I was at.

I'm glade Ihope found that info. It's good to remember the next time I think about reinstating. I sure don't want to be worse off. ( not that you would, everyone's different I've read )Every once in a while, I feel like I can't do this another day. I vent and look for reassurance on bb. I always get that reassurance. I get recharged for a while and down I go again.

:sleepy:I'm not sleepy but I'll try' I'll be back AM

Gizmo,

 

At least you can lay and not walk.  Thanks for being ther

I am confused when you say you were taking 10-15 mg. Were you doing a taper, taking inconsistent amounts or?

I only took valium for sleep. I would 10mg and if that did not work I woul add another 5 mg and that would put me out.  I knew nothing of tolerance wd, tampering or anything.  I believe I was in tolerance wd for at least 13 years.  Now that I know.  Dr were ckueless. I screwed up again when I let hospital give me detox cocktail. Now I am even worse wd from 5 meds all at once...  IG

I too am considering reinstatement and exactly how to go about it. Off for just over 4 months and too sick and non functional to take it any more. However I really have done enough research to suggest that some people will need to reinstate for life. Coming off benzo's is just not possible for everyone. Some will be so sick for years, possibily the rest of their lives. If your still sick after that long surely its time to realize you are one of those that needs to be on benzo's for life. Reinstating with the view to taper slowly makes no sense at all. You were already off it for a long time and proved you can't live without it! Thats nothing to be ashamed of. A diabetic needs to take insulin in the same way.

 

IG, the do gooders here will have you believe that everyone can recover from benzo's but the truth is different, sadly. I've known of many, many people who literally years after ceasing benzo use had to reinstate, for good, because life off benzo's was such a living hell. After reinstating they were suddenly 90% better. I'm convinced benzo's do something permanent to your brain if your unlucky. I know I'm one. In that case you need to go back on for life for some quality of life or battle out the rest of your life in abject misery for the sake of an ideal. Life is too short.

I too am considering reinstatement and exactly how to go about it. Off for just over 4 months and too sick and non functional to take it any more. However I really have done enough research to suggest that some people will need to reinstate for life. Coming off benzo's is just not possible for everyone. Some will be so sick for years, possibily the rest of their lives. If your still sick after that long surely its time to realize you are one of those that needs to be on benzo's for life. Reinstating with the view to taper slowly makes no sense at all. You were already off it for a long time and proved you can't live without it! Thats nothing to be ashamed of. A diabetic needs to take insulin in the same way.

 

IG, the do gooders here will have you believe that everyone can recover from benzo's but the truth is different, sadly. I've known of many, many people who literally years after ceasing benzo use had to reinstate, for good, because life off benzo's was such a living hell. After reinstating they were suddenly 90% better. I'm convinced benzo's do something permanent to your brain if your unlucky. I know I'm one. In that case you need to go back on for life for some quality of life or battle out the rest of your life in abject misery for the sake of an ideal. Life is too short.

 

Before you reinstate Gus, try Perth.  Check out the George O'Neil powerpoint slides.  I stumbled on this  way back when in acute.  He's got a non-profit clinic in Perth and is going through low-dose flumazenil trials.  Either way, good luck.

 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=dr+george+o+neil&oq=dr+&aqs=chrome.4.69i57j69i60l3j69i59j69i60.7106j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#es_sm=122&espv=210&q=george+o+neil+pptx

Do what you gotta do IslandGirl.

 

Allan's advice sounds good.

 

I reinstated but I was only a few days off and still on a low dose not cold turkey. I just went straight to the equivalent V of my old dose of Temaze according to ashton manual. If I knew what I do know I would have done it the way Allan suggests: adding a bit until you feel better. You'll have less far to go.

 

The other thing is - though I'm sure you're not in the mood to experiment - have you considered resintating traz and maybe another of the many detox drugs you were on to see if they give you relief without benzo reinstatement. You can taper off them after a much longer period of healing and their taper will be less difficult then a benzo taper.

 

In any case good luck and much healing to you xx

Thanks Jimbo.

 

The problem is without reinstating I wouldn't be well enough to get to Perth!

 

Is flumazenil really a silver bullet?

Thanks Jimbo.

 

The problem is without reinstating I wouldn't be well enough to get to Perth!

 

Is flumazenil really a silver bullet?

 

I don't think that it's a silver bullet in that it works 100% for everybody.  But I've read seen some cases to convince me that there is something to it.  Lexofree said it saved him:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=6164.0

 

This following guy went from valium agony to an OK state now:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=860-2aAsU4Q

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdC_bc-AaQ

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqRpBwQFx3E

 

This is the clinic.

http://www.freshstart.org.au/

 

I almost flew to Australia from Canada when I got hit with acute from dropping Klonopin.  I was only on it short term so it gradually eased but F**K ME, that was an awful time in my life.  If I would have remained in that hell for month after month I was prepared to take a gamble.  I'd at the least call them and get more info.

 

Jim

 

 

 

I too am considering reinstatement and exactly how to go about it. Off for just over 4 months and too sick and non functional to take it any more. However I really have done enough research to suggest that some people will need to reinstate for life. Coming off benzo's is just not possible for everyone. Some will be so sick for years, possibily the rest of their lives. If your still sick after that long surely its time to realize you are one of those that needs to be on benzo's for life. Reinstating with the view to taper slowly makes no sense at all. You were already off it for a long time and proved you can't live without it! Thats nothing to be ashamed of. A diabetic needs to take insulin in the same way.

 

IG, the do gooders here will have you believe that everyone can recover from benzo's but the truth is different, sadly. I've known of many, many people who literally years after ceasing benzo use had to reinstate, for good, because life off benzo's was such a living hell. After reinstating they were suddenly 90% better. I'm convinced benzo's do something permanent to your brain if your unlucky. I know I'm one. In that case you need to go back on for life for some quality of life or battle out the rest of your life in abject misery for the sake of an ideal. Life is too short.

 

 

Completely uneducated! And this is why you don't take advice from people online!

Island girl,

So sorry you are suffering. I went back and looked at your intial post and it seems you were very sick from benzos. You were housebound and very ill and then you went c/t. I know when we are in so much pain our minds tell us that we were so perfect while on the drug. Sometimes it's good to look back and see what the reality was.

Akathisia is not something you can cure your brain must heal. If you get lucky and the reinstatement stops it you will have to deal with it if you try to come off the drugs in the future. After I got akathisia I was paradoxical to anything I tried to take, and I do mean anything. It all made the akathisia worse. So I made the choicie to remain drug, supplements, even anything OTC free. Eventually the akathisia slowed down and now is almost nonexistent. It takes a lot longer than we would like but your brain can heal if you can survive.

No one can make the decision for you and I hope it works out for you. Just thought I would share my experience.

 

Be careful of others telling you to reinstate because they are considering it. Why haven't they done it? Why tell others that's the thing to do? Could it be they want to see what the outcome is for someone else should that person reinstate?