.5mg Klonopin Taper Schedule - Advice

Colin, could you help me get started with a liquid titration taper?  Here is the info that I believe you require:

 

Initial dose (last 15 months) : .5mg Klonopin

 

Rate of Dose Reduction :  I don't know what to specify; I am currently reducing by .03125mg (via compounding pharmacist) roughly every 3 weeks.  You and I have discussed that this might be too gradual of a taper, and I suspect that you are right, so depending on how much time you want to put into this, could you create titration equivalents for both .03125mg (current) and .05mg (alternate if I decide to go this speedier taper route) reductions, assuming a 3 week period for each .03125mg / .05mg cut?

 

Strength of pills:  .5mg

 

Current dosage:  .34375mg nightly

 

Did I get everything?

 

Thank you Colin.

Hi OB!

 

Colin has left the building until tomorrow afternoon, but he will get to you when he returns. It doesn't take him long to do once he gets your pertinent info.

 

Linda 

 

 

Do you already have the 100ml cylinder with 1 ml markings and a 10 ml syringe?  Just checking.

Hi Beeper,

 

Where could I pick up such a cylinder, specifically with graduations as small as 1 ml?  Would Walgreens have such a thing? Other places?

 

My internet access will be off and on this weekend, so I will do my best to check into this site periodically.

Hi orange  I found mine on the internet. No local stores around me had any

I think most people end up getting their's online.

If you find one online and are not sure, post  a link to it and we can let you know

 

just google 100ml graduated cylinder and you'll get a bunch of results.

 

 

Hi Orange,

 

A 100 or 50ml cylinder will be fine, with 1 or 2ml increments. So long as you can make up a reasonable volume of liquid (not too large or small), and the cylinder has enough increments to make many small decreases to the dose, it will be fine. I can easily addapt the the schedule to suit the specifics of your cylinder.

Hi Orange8,

I wanted to say hello, I also tapered off klono. I did really good. I hope your taper goes well. Just take nice and slow, and you too will do great.  Good Luck to you!!! Let us know how it's going. Kel

Hi Orange,

 

Just checkin on ya ..

IF you have ANY problem getting the supplies needed just post your questions here..I know I posted a lot of questions just to be sure I got the right thing.

 

I know everything sounds confusing right now, gathering the supplies, and the ml measurements, and the mixing and all...but trust me once you begin this , you will be able to do it in your sleep..It is a very easy process and we will be here with you every step

 

You are going to do great, just you watch! 

Hello all,

 

Again, I am floored by the amount of support I am receiving from all of you; you guys are awesome!  Thanks for having my back.  It is so good not to go through this alone.

 

I will google the syringe and see what sources comes up, as true to your word, a place like Walgreens just doesn't have such things.  Too bad.

 

Now for the voice of doubt; I am feeling a little fearful that mixing Klono and milk (not truly soluble with each other) will result in an uneven daily doseage if I go through with this type of taper. 

 

What I am envisioning is that the portion of milk/Klono mixture in the syringe that constitutes my daily dose may have slightly more or less Klono to milk mixture than the amount disposed from the cylinder as part of the taper process.  An even ratio of Klono to milk mixture throughout the entire process seems unlikely, thus how can an exact dose be assured every time?  I have read multiple good experiences with this type of taper on this site from others, so perhaps my over-active mind is playing with me.  Any assurances would really be helpful.

Hi Orange,

 

I got my 100ml cylinder at sciencestuff.com, I bought a glass one and a plastic one for back up. As far as a 10ml syringe, I got mine at the Walmart pharmacy. I have had no problem with dosage consistency. You must crush your pill into a fine powder and add it to the milk, then mix well, I use a long straw. I pour the mixture into a small plastic dish, stir again, remove the amount for the day and dose 3X/day stirring before extracting the amount for each dose. Hope this helps.

 

T2

OB,

 

Also, make sure you use homogenized whole milk. The crushed benzo has a propensity for clinging to the fat molecules in the milk, leaving it evenly distributed for a bit after mixing. Just make sure you measure it out right away.

 

Many many people have successfully tapered using this method, usually with much less withdrawal effect than when using other methods.   

Hi Orange,

 

Your questions are reasonable and valid, but experience tells us that there is little problem with achieving an evenly distributed benzo/milk liquid. Do be sure to give it a good mix though, of course.

 

The reason we recommend (full-fat homogenised) milk over water is because the benzo particles have a affinity for the fat in the milk. Homogenised milk has the fat evenly distributed throughout the milk, so the benzo powder should be pretty evenly distributed too. There are inaccuracies withever we make any measurement, but compared to pill-splitting, this must be many, many times more accurate, and allows for a much smother taper. I've discussed this a pharmacist in the past - his response was positive, and I seem to recall someone posting quite recently of a positive response from their pharmacist when they detailed the process.

Thank you guys for the additional helpful information.  Theresa2, I will order the 100 ml cyinder from sciencestuff.com, thank you for the tip.  Colin and eljay, I will be sure to use full fat, homogenised milk and it sounds like that will ensure as much solubility between the milk and Klono as possible.

 

By the by, where can I pick up a pestle and mortar?  I can definitely say I have never had to shop for these items before.  I'll price em at sciencestuff.com, but I imagine they can be gotten at a lower price locally?

 

Curious, within the Introductin to Tapering documentation on this site, it is noted that "frequent, small reductions in your medication are more manageable than fewer, larger reductions".  Does this apply to the Klono I'm taking, as the half life of this drug is relatively short, at 18-50 hours, in comparison to Valium's 36-200 hours?

 

My worry is that whether I'm taking .34375 mg Klono nightly via capsule for the next two weeks (via compounding pharmacist, my current taper amount/method) or accomplishing this same taper rate via liquid titration (but incrementally lower at a daily nightly rate) because of the relatively short half life of the Klono, in either taper method wouldn't the Klono be 'eliminated' from my system by morning (in other words the Klono would still be in the blood but the levels would be low enough to not have a detectable impact on me physiologically), regardless of taper method?  From this standpoint, then, what is the advantage of the liquid titration? 

 

I believe the whole point of this method of taper is to assure a smooth reduction in benzo levels over time, but wouldn't Klono's short half life prevent such a smooth reduction whether using the compounding method or liquid titration?

 

I can't help myself, I need to ask the questions before I start this method, thank you with your patience regarding my process everyone...

Hi

 

The advantage of titration, and what is meant by smoother taper, is you are making daily reductions of very minute amounts, rather than larger, chunky weekly or bi-monthly cuts.

 

As for the klonopin half life, it's still relatively rather long! At the very minimum, it takes 18 hours for half of your klon blood levels to be eliminated. So if you take a night dose, you'll still have, at the very least, well more than half of your night time dose left on board the following morning.

You can also break up your daily dose, spreading it out over two or three doses a day, ensuring a more steady blood level throughout the day. This can be done with any method, particularly with titration.     

By the way, I have poor eyesight, and keep reading your username as OrangeB, not Orange8.

 

That's why I keep calling you OB, sorry! 

 

Hi O8,

I'm glad to see you getting your questions answered.

That is one thing you will notice about this place. Everyone loves to help everyone else. When you become comfortable with it all you will offer advice to those going through what you are now. That always puts a smile on your face, when you see it's really working. Good luck to you, you're on the right path. Kel

Thank you eljay, that helps clarify the issue for me, its appreciated.  And either Orange8 or OrangeB is fine.  No biggie.

 

haljes, thank you for the encouragement.  It feels hectic right now, but I would like to believe progress is being made.

 

By the way, any suggestions on where to pick up a mortar and pestle.  Im off to sciencestuff.com to order my cylinder so I'll check prices there but wondering if there is a cheaper local equivalent.

 

Thanks for the ongoing support.

Hi Orange, I didn't find a mortar and pestle a total necessity. I, along with a lot of other just use a cup or plate and the back of a spoon to crush the pills. I use a Coffee cup, so it doesn't shoot across the room as I'm crushing it 

 

Then once crushed up good, I then add a little milk and crush some more, then add this to my cylinder and then mix mix mix mix more...

 

Since I have began, I actually saw a mortar and pestle at a mom and pop style local pharmacy. But the old cup and spoon worked just fine

 

You are going to do great

-Scott

Thanks scott33, your support is appreciated.  I was able to find both the 100 ml graduated cylinders (1 ml graduations) and a pestle and mortar at sciencestuff.com yesterday, so those items are on their way. 

 

I like the idea of crushing along with the milk; believe me, I will be doing everything I possibly can to absolutely ensure that the Klono and milk are as combined as possible!

 

Now I wait.....

Hi Orange,

 

Just to be sure, I need you to post your particulars:

 

1) Your daily dose in mgs.

 

2) The size (dose of your tablets).

 

3) The total number of tablets (or fraction of tablets) you take per day.

 

4) The size of your cylinder.

 

5) The size of the increments/graduations on the cylinder.

 

6) You prefered start date.

 

7) Your taper rate (percentage to be cut over how many days). Most people titrate about 10% of their dose every 10-14 days. If you are unsure of a good rate for you, post here with details of past cuts that worked well for you and we will help you extrapolate a taper rate.

Thanks scott33, your support is appreciated.  I was able to find both the 100 ml graduated cylinders (1 ml graduations) and a pestle and mortar at sciencestuff.com yesterday, so those items are on their way. 

 

I like the idea of crushing along with the milk; believe me, I will be doing everything I possibly can to absolutely ensure that the Klono and milk are as combined as possible!

 

Now I wait.....

 

Hi Orange,

I'm glad you found everything

We will be here with you through your titration incase you have any questions. I have a good feeling you are going to do great. I also found it helpful for myself, is made a journal to go along with the schedule Colin set up for me. In the journal I put the date, the amount I reduced that day, and how I was feeling. At times when I was feeling down or overwhelemed with the titration process, I just went back through my journal and could see the progress I made.

you are going to do great!

 

Thank you scott33 for your continual encouragement, that is very helpful.  And the idea of starting a journal is a really good way to track emotions, set-backs, progress, and all the rest.  I will start a journal, thank you!

 

Colin, I will post your requested information shortly; I have sporadic internet access throughout the weekend so will do my best to get this info to you within the next 2-3 days.  Exciting stuff!  And scary.  Thanks for the help and support.

Hi O8,

 

Don't worry about the delay, Colin too will be delayed for the next few days. 

Colin,

 

Could you provide two separate titration schedules for me, as I will be working with two different dosage quantities of the Klono:

 

1) for the next 10 nights (8/25/08 - 9/03/08), I will be using up the remainder of my pharmacy compounding Klono script, which is .34375mg capsules (1 capsule per night), 10 remaining capsules

 

2) After the 10 compounded Klono capsules are used up (starting 9/04/08), I will be using .5mg Klono tablets to complete the remainder of my tapering program for the upcoming weeks or months.

 

Regarding the specific information you requested:

 

1) My current daily dose is .34375mg nightly.

 

2) Tablet size for next 10 nights (8/25/08 - 9/3/08) - .34375mg 

    Tablet size following the next 10 nights (starting 9/4/08) - .5mg

 

3) I take a total of one tablet per night.

4) My cylinder size is 100 ml.

5) The increments on my cylinder are 1ml increments.

6) My prefered start date is as soon as possible.

 

7) Taper Rate - This is where I could really gain from everyone's input, including yours Colin.  Thus far, I have been cutting my dose every 3 weeks by .03125mg (I started my taper on 5/16/08 from .5mg Klono), which is a very small amount over a long period of time. 

 

I am not sure if this is the best rate for me, as I have been too afraid to find out what my upper taper rate is.  My instinct seems to indicate that getting off this stuff faster than slower will be better for me, but as I have come close to suffering several panic attacks (did not go into full-blown panic attack either time) I am afraid to push for a faster taper rate.  Colin, you in particular recently noted that my current taper rate is extremely slow, so I am hoping you and anyone else can help me extrapolate a more efficient taper rate that will work for me for the liquid titration.

 

Please let me know if there are is any additional information that I need to provide you with. 

 

By the way, is it really necessary to attain a syringe that is exactly 10 ml in volume? 

Hi orange,

Just to give you an idea of the taper rate, I personally am doing 10% per 12 days, and it is quite comfortable. You can always slow your taper down if things become to fast for you..and my taper right is just right for me, but some people go faster like 10% over 7 days, some people go slower 10% over 14 days..and some even slower.

 

About the syringe..no a 10ml syringe is not neccesary, although it is what I use, but any syringe marked with Ml's should work fine..you see, as you get down lower in your dosage the bigger syringe is just a bit more handy because you can draw out more liquid to discard. Say you need to draw out 25ml's to discard...with a 10ml syringe that would be 2 and a half "loads" of the syringe, as opposed to if you had a 3ml syringe..that would take a bit over 8 loads of the syringe..do you see what I'm saying?

 

So any size should work, but once you get down lower in your taper it is just a bit easier to use the bigger syringe is all..but any should work fine, as long as they are marked with Ml's

 

Colin is the one that does all the schedules right now, so I'm sure once he gets to this he will share his input

hang in there and I'm sure he will get the schedule to you when possible...you just have to decide on your taper rate..

 

Like I said once you decide on one, if it's too fast, you can ALWAYS slow down and a new schedule can be made up for you..or vice versa, if it is too slow you can always speed up..thats the great thing about titration.