Vitamin C & Cortisol

Hi eliz

I'm not taking any Vitamin C at the moment, because I found the Seriphos works much better for me.  I love it. I probably will go back to taking the Vit C later on, probably in the morning.

Your other hormone issues could be affecting the way the Seriphos is working. It's a big balancing act, getting all these hormones working together. I'd see how things go with your doctor and maybe a change to the hormone balance might be in order, and then the cortisol will work better.

I found that when my taper when to hell recently the Seriphos wasn't helping at all. In fact I blamed it for making things worse, but it wasn't at fault. It was just that my taper was out of whack. Once I got that back on track, the Seriphos started working really well again.

At the moment I have a small mug of warm milk at around 7pm, and then I take 1 Seriphos capsule at around 9pm. That usually makes me really sleepy by around 9.30-10pm, but if I still have problems falling asleep I take another one, and that's it. A couple of times I've woken at around 3-4am and not been able to get back to sleep, so I take another capsule then, and I'm out like a light.

Of course I have no idea how long these good times will last for. I've just learned to enjoy them while I can, and worry about the problems when and if they happen.

Pam....

 

My sleep is totally sucking this last week. Ugh....its nasty. I hate this. I was having some decent nights then WHAM....back to horrible. I just don't get it. I know I had the issues before the xanax so maybe I will always have them. IDK....It just really sux tho!

 

I hope your sleep regulates!! Its horrid I tell ya.

 

Lisa

 

I'm really sorry to hear that. Have you tried the Seriphos? I don't want to be too positive about it just yet, but I think I'm falling back in love with it...lol.  For a while I was blaming it for why my sleep had gone to crap, but it wasn't the culprit. I just needed to get my taper back on track.

Hey....long time no talk. My laptop died and it took me forever to get in to pick one and get over paying for it lol So I went back for a few nights a decent sleep. Its so up and down. I haven't tried the seriphos. I will have to read on that. Is it natural too? What does it do? I feel like I take the melatonin and vit c at 9 so I can sleep by 1030 or 11 but it seems as if my body doesn't wanna go to sleep till around 12. I can take it earlier and it makes no difference. Then I have had a few nights of sleeping till 5 without waking up!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOHOOOOO lol but then I cant get back to sleep till after 6ish and then I have to get up at 7. Im not complaining cuz the straight bursts of sleep are amazing lol but of course I still want more!!!!!!!!!!!!

How is your sleep and taper going???

Lisa

I'm wondering how many mg of vitamin C do you need to take daily before your urine starts to get cloudy?

If you have to monitor the clarity of your urine for possible infections then it would be useful not to get a false reading.

Pam....

 

My sleep is totally sucking this last week. Ugh....its nasty. I hate this. I was having some decent nights then WHAM....back to horrible. I just don't get it. I know I had the issues before the xanax so maybe I will always have them. IDK....It just really sux tho!

 

I hope your sleep regulates!! Its horrid I tell ya.

 

Lisa

 

I'm really sorry to hear that. Have you tried the Seriphos? I don't want to be too positive about it just yet, but I think I'm falling back in love with it...lol.  For a while I was blaming it for why my sleep had gone to crap, but it wasn't the culprit. I just needed to get my taper back on track.

 

Hey....long time no talk. My laptop died and it took me forever to get in to pick one and get over paying for it lol So I went back for a few nights a decent sleep. Its so up and down. I haven't tried the seriphos. I will have to read on that. Is it natural too? What does it do? I feel like I take the melatonin and vit c at 9 so I can sleep by 1030 or 11 but it seems as if my body doesn't wanna go to sleep till around 12. I can take it earlier and it makes no difference. Then I have had a few nights of sleeping till 5 without waking up!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOHOOOOO lol but then I cant get back to sleep till after 6ish and then I have to get up at 7. Im not complaining cuz the straight bursts of sleep are amazing lol but of course I still want more!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

How is your sleep and taper going???

 

Lisa

Hi Lisa

Sorry to hear about the computer problems.

I'm not totally well versed on everything about Seriphos. I just checked a lot of the reviews on sites like amazon and and most people were giving it 4-5 stars. There are some negative reviews of course, but the majority were positive. This is what Mood Cure says about Seriphos...... www.moodcure.com/correcting_cortisol_levels.html

I'm doing really well at the moment - touch wood. I hope it continues.

I'm wondering how many mg of vitamin C do you need to take daily before your urine starts to get cloudy?

 

If you have to monitor the clarity of your urine for possible infections then it would be useful not to get a false reading.

 

 

 

 

 

 

hmmm - I didn't have that problem when I was taking around 3000mg per day.

I thought maybe we should revisit a discussion about cortisol and Vitamin C for help with insomnia and/or anxiety. We have had discussions about it before, but not for a while, except for a thread shelby started a few days ago in the “alternative therapies” section which doesn’t seem to have gotten a lot of attention.

 

I have read a bit about cortisol, but never really thought much about how it affected my insomnia problems, until I read this. It described me perfectly……

 

"Cortisol levels are supposed to be highest in the morning and lowest between about midnight and 4:00AM. If levels are too high, you'll feel wired, tense and hyper-vigilant. Our cortisol levels always rise above the normal level to help us cope with severe stress. This can happen, for example, during a divorce or as a reaction to withdrawal from medications, like benzodiazepines or antidepressants, often causing severe agitation and insomnia.

 

Sleep disturbance: If cortisol levels are too high at night, instead of very low, as they're supposed to be, you'll be kept up too late with a "second wind." Or your cortisol levels could rise too high early in the morning and wake you up prematurely. Or you could wake up between 2:00 and 4:00AM and not be able to get back to sleep easily. Are you a night owl? Testing may show that your cortisol is above normal levels between 10:00PM and midnight when it should be dropping to allow you to get to sleep.”

 

So I started taking some Vitamin C and the results have been amazing. A few other people on the valium support blog have also been testing it and have also reported improvements with sleep and anxiety.

 

I was also reading something else the other day that said that it is recommended that the base amount of Vitamin C that we should be taking daily is 30mg for every kilogram of body weight. This amount should then be increased if you are suffering any particular stresses (ie anxiety, medication, ill-health, benzo withdrawal etc). The dosage that I’m taking is 1000mg with breakfast, 1000mg with dinner and 2000mg before bed, so I am taking roughly double my base amount.

 

I’m not saying this will work for everyone because not everyone’s problems would be cortisol related, but I’m now convinced mine is. Everyone also needs to experiment with their own doses because some people may need to take more or less than I do.

ooo fantastic! I'll give it a try

I'm also pretty sure my problem is cortisol related. Problems with cortisol started with the trauma of my daughter dying and then entrenched when my second daughter was a baby and I'd wake with a panic every time I heard her cry. Apparently people with PTSD do have higher then normal levels of cortisol when they wake. And that is me. I wake at 3 with a start and heart pumping.

I'm going to see an endocrinologist in november and was going to talk to him about this. I'll let you know if I get any more wisdom

Pam....

 

My sleep is totally sucking this last week. Ugh....its nasty. I hate this. I was having some decent nights then WHAM....back to horrible. I just don't get it. I know I had the issues before the xanax so maybe I will always have them. IDK....It just really sux tho!

 

I hope your sleep regulates!! Its horrid I tell ya.

 

Lisa

 

I'm really sorry to hear that. Have you tried the Seriphos? I don't want to be too positive about it just yet, but I think I'm falling back in love with it...lol.  For a while I was blaming it for why my sleep had gone to crap, but it wasn't the culprit. I just needed to get my taper back on track.

Can you tell me more about Seriphos?

I was taking DHEA before and in the beginning of my taper. I was taking it to try and function because I was so tired - turns out that was side effects from the temaze. Anywho the beginning of my taper was cortisol yuckiness free. When everything went wacky I stopped taking the DHEA. Now I have that familiar cortisol sensation in my body again particularly when I wake. DHEA can help with cortisol balance too. A warning though: it is a GABA antagonist so could make wd symptoms worse. I'm thinking I'll give a small amount a go again though see if it settles me again.

Hi Smiff,

Your information on vitamin C has my curiosity.  I recently had my cortisol saliva levels tested.  Results are

6-8am    1.8  Normal Range 13 - 24

12-1pm  1.0  Normal Range 5 - 8

4-5pm    1.3 Normal Range 4 - 7

10-12am 1.4  Normal Range 1 - 3

2-4am    7.1 Normal Range 1 - 3

Per the results my cortisol is way too low in the morning to afternoon hours, normal in the evening hours (the reason I am able to fall asleep with minimal problems I assume) and way too high in the middle of the night (the reason I am always waking up after midnight and unable to go back to sleep).

Do you think taking vitamin C at bedtime could help with this?

Like Diaz-Pam I am also taking the Seriphos and have been for about three weeks now, but I either am not taking enough or my cortisol is just so high at this time it is not effective.

Hi Smiff,

Your information on vitamin C has my curiosity.  I recently had my cortisol saliva levels tested.  Results are

 

6-8am    1.8  Normal Range 13 - 24

12-1pm  1.0  Normal Range 5 - 8

4-5pm    1.3 Normal Range 4 - 7

10-12am 1.4  Normal Range 1 - 3

2-4am    7.1 Normal Range 1 - 3

 

Per the results my cortisol is way too low in the morning to afternoon hours, normal in the evening hours (the reason I am able to fall asleep with minimal problems I assume) and way too high in the middle of the night (the reason I am always waking up after midnight and unable to go back to sleep).

 

Do you think taking vitamin C at bedtime could help with this?

 

Like Diaz-Pam I am also taking the Seriphos and have been for about three weeks

now, but I either am not taking enough or my cortisol is just so high at this time it is not effective.

To be honest Eliz I'm no expert on the vitamin C thing. Diaze-Pam is the knowledgeable one on that front. I

tried it last night - 2000 mg - and I didn't have the same anxiety and yucky feeling through chest and arms when I woke and was able to go back to sleep quicker. But that is one night. Still it is probably worth giving it a go.

Cortisol feels toxic.. horrible stuff. I spose it is necessary at certain points in your life. Its just for for many of us it gets out of whack. I only read a paper on it being out of whack for those diagnosed with PTSD (me) but there is probably reading on it and its relationship to anxiety etc.

My experience was with DHEA. I took it in the morning. It seemed to lift my mood, mental clarity and all but eliminate that sensation of cortisol. It is a GABA receptor antagonist though which means amongst the other heaps of things it does it does the opposite to what benzos do. It may not be worth trying during withdrawal or only worth trying in the tinniest doses  - 1-2mg - that you made sure you kept consistent during withdrawal. I was taking 25mg of it when I first started coming off temaze. That is because I didn't know anything about benzos and didn't yet know I was dependent. I felt great. I didn't sleep much but I was happy with no anxiety and clear headed. I stopped the DHEA the day I started the seroquel - trying to fix the insomnia - and everything went bad. I don't know if it was ceasing DHEA, seroquel or a combination of the two. I'm going to give 2mg in the morning a go though and see what happens. I'm so early in my taper that things can't go to crazy for too long if it doesn't help.

Good luck

Here are 2 links. Not scientifically rigorous but just a quick search

http://www.livestrong.com/article/487642-vitamin-c-dosage-to-reduce-cortisol/

http://www.livestrong.com/article/28618-lower-high-cortisol-levels-naturally/

I don't profess to know that much about Vitamin C, other than what I've read. A lot of people do seem to have success at regulating their cortisol with it, but the doses and times of dosing seems to be pretty variable, depending I guess on how the cortisol affects you and at what time of the day that is.

Similarly with Seriphos, I only know what I've read about it. It contains phosphorylated serine. I read all the reviews that Amazon has on it and most of them were positive. I also read a bit about it on Mood Cure http://www.moodcure.com/correcting_cortisol_levels.html

7 hours sleep!

and mostly restful restorative sleep.

But the best thing: when I did wake to go to the toilet or come into light sleep I didn't fully wake with a cortisol rush/heart beating etc.

I'm only into day 6 of withdrawal and I'm at the early stages not the sticky end but still. I'm very happy to have found some ways to deal with cortisol surges.

I used 1500mg slow release vitamin C

1 seriphos tab

1 enzymatic sleep tonight

I tried a seriphos tab during the day to see if it hyped or created sleepiness and its affect on cortisol levels are amazing. Being diagnosed with PTSD and having a daughter die I'm well versed in how cortisol feels and within half an hour there was a marked difference. It wasn't 'relaxing' or 'sedating' the way benzos are. It just wasn't that unpleasant overly-excited feel.

Thank you and fingers crossed it will help throughout my taper 

That's great Smiff. I'm pleased you've found something that's working for you.

Thanks Pam. Hopefully it will keep working. I'm not really in withdrawal right now so who knows. But hey.. the whole cortisol management is definitely a winner.

Hey guys....

Have to tell you this......I was getting low on the vit c and thought I ordered some from amazon....it didn't come and then I checked and hadn't hit the order button....duhhhhhhhhh So i figured how much difference could this 1000mg make. OMG I didn't sleep at all for 2 nights. I still took the 3mg melatonin the first night.....awful.....so I took 6mg melatonin 2nd night.....still awful..... GOt my vit c in the mail and took my regular 1000mg plus the 3mg melatonin and sleep was back to my normal! Yep.....isn't that crazy? My normal isn't fabulous but its good for me.

How is everyone doing with their sleep?

Lisa

Wow - well I guess that's proved it for you !!!

My sleep is still pretty good with the Seriphos. I think I've found the best routine is to take one capsule right when I go to bed. I've found that sometimes if I take it about an hour or so before bed it doesn't work as well. Who knows why just one hour would make such a difference, but is there really any logic to any of this benzo/cortisol/tapering thing?

Hey guys....

 

Have to tell you this......I was getting low on the vit c and thought I ordered some from amazon....it didn't come and then I checked and hadn't hit the order button....duhhhhhhhhh So i figured how much difference could this 1000mg make. OMG I didn't sleep at all for 2 nights. I still took the 3mg melatonin the first night.....awful.....so I took 6mg melatonin 2nd night.....still awful..... GOt my vit c in the mail and took my regular 1000mg plus the 3mg melatonin and sleep was back to my normal! Yep.....isn't that crazy? My normal isn't fabulous but its good for me.

 

How is everyone doing with their sleep?

 

Lisa

OMG note to self: Re-order well before running out!

Big dose C is helping me at night too

Glad you are getting some sleep now

Smiff.....I really didn't think it would make that much difference but omg it does! definitely reorder prior!

It definitely makes a difference

I've been trying to get the balance right between too much and too little cortisol the last few days. Too little cortisol and you feel nauseous, tired and have weird low blood pressure issues like dizziness. I had that so I dropped a bit of my vitamin C. Today I feel like I'm constantly in 'flight or fight'. Balance damn it is going to be the bain of my existence whilst withdrawing me thinks

Smiff.....how much are you taking? I think I had an easier time regulating it since Im done my taper. Its funny how things can be so touchy with these supplements.

Lisa

Smiff.....how much are you taking? I think I had an easier time regulating it since Im done my taper. Its funny how things can be so touchy with these supplements.

 

Lisa

I was taking 2000mg per day: 1500 at night and 500 in the morning

But I also started seriphos - which is another cortisol reduction thing.

I started back on 2000mg over the last 24 hours and aren't getting the same low cortisol symptoms so who knows.. maybe a lot of anti-cortisol action too quickly or maybe just a difficult balancing act when tapering.

Either way it is good stuff

Ah ha - another Seriphos lab rat..lol... Good to hear it seems to be working for you too Bart. Now that there seems to be a few of us having positive results with it, perhaps it's time to start a new thread about it. I will do that now.

I heard of another possible sleep aid today on the valium blog - cream of tartar!! Etown posted about it, and it seems to be helping a couple of people. He will probably start a new topic about it. I plan on trying it tonight. So I can't give any reports on it yet, and seeing as I'm sleeping well at the moment, I may not be a good lab rat anyway...lol. The "recipe" is ....

1/2 teaspoon cream of tartar

1/2 teaspoon Celtic or Himilayan salt

1/2 cup Orange juice

I'm not sure what the importance of the OJ and the salt are. I will just try the COT with water and see what happens.

Ok my vit c hasn't worked well in 2 nights. Well it works a bit but I could feel the cortisol at my second waking around 2. I woke up every hour and a half. UGH! Im gonna take 2000 mg of vit c and see what happens. If that doesn't work Im goin to try the seriphos that you all have. I NEED SLEEP! Work is gonna stink to high heaven today and I have to work till 8pm :'(

Hope you all slept well!

Lisa