Jump to content

Mrubar needs some support.she is dealing with her mother's symptoms


Recommended Posts

hello all.

I am helping Mrubar post here for some support.

The background as I know it is hat she is in Poland or Russia.

She is nursing her aged mother and handling her taper.

 

So far I think that she has only been posting on the "support for family members" blog that pattylu had started a few years ago. Only a few buddies read that one so I suggested to go to the main board for help.

 

Here is the post that prompted this.

I am no so techy so I don't know how to send this link where Mrubar will see the replies.

Any help there would be appreciated.

Hi Everyone,

This morning is a horrible morning again. High blood pressure regardless doubled betablocker and my Mom feels that she is dying for sure. She feels very weird, from what she says I think it is derealisation. Splitting headache, nausea, vertigo, palpitations. She cannot get up nor eat anything (just took her betablocker and morning dose of lorazepam - 0.03mg). She asked me to call the hospital but after taking these 2 drugs, Her blood pressure went down and she just lies down on a side to help the nausea and rests like that. I am afraid to go anywhere. My son went to preschool so at least he doesn't have to be scared.

The conclusion for me is that the smaller cuts did not help. Every time she goes about 0.01mg, either at once or in smaller steps the "morning dying" comes back. I am not sure if I should wait with a next cut longer? Would it hep to slow down? I have noticed before that when this "attack" passes her blood pressure goes down and stays down. Maybe the "morning dying" is a panic attack and I should treat it as side effect of tapering down lorazepam. Maybe someone from outside of me would help with a suggestion? I am very tired and don't know if I can change anything to make the withdrawal easier for her. Will the "morning dyings" remain after lorazepam is gone from Her body?

That is one of the worst to deal with. Another is that she immediately wants to see a doctor and if so - they will as an introduction to any treatment give her benzos, seeing her scared of her state like she is.

Maybe someone could help me to discern - to slow down tapering again under these circumstances or continue like I do (which is 0.002mg per day).

Thanks. Mrubar

 

Mrubar

 

Maybe you should take this post/question out to the main board instead of only on this buddy support blog.

You might get some helpful answers there. I am worried for you and your poor mother.

Love Carol

 

Dear Carol, Thank you for your post. I am sorry I did not post it on main forum nor responded to you but ...I found it TODAY. It shows MINE state of mind when I was posting after you without even seeing your answer. It would feel so good to see that someone said anything. I felt very lonely at these last few days. But now I "discovered" that you answered, thank you!

 

Well, I stopped tapering and adjusted my Mom's betablocker to previous dose and exact 12 hours intervals between doses. Today was MUCH easier after the dramatic 4 mornings in a raw of panic attacks, high blood pressure and then falling down so much....

Today seems be an average wave day. I collapsed and slept in the afternoon while she was doing dishes and my son was in preschool.

My Mom was on the 0.05mg for last 3 days and maybe I will go down tomorrow to 0.048mg , maybe not. I will see at the morning. It did help to hold. But She still has some nausea and vertigo when she lies down.

 

The weather here changed from breezy and pleasant to horrible humid hot.

 

Well, we are alive here and better. I am sorry I did not respond to you earlier. I was simply blinded terrified and I have my account set to open last page - and your post is last on the previous one.

 

I decided to cut 1/1000 mg per day for 1, 2 or 3 days and then hold for at least one day and see if everything is good. Now is again late so I will try to sleep. I wish Everyone here some rest which I finally got today. Mrubar

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Carol, this was good of you to do. It's very easy to get lost on the "community" threads.  :smitten:

 

Hi Mrubar -

 

How old is your Mother? I think I saw she was on lorazepam at .05 mg after tapering a while, right?  She must be very sensitive to these meds to have nausea at the very tiny cuts you're doing.

 

Would you mind telling us more, such as how often does she dose, what amounts, does she cut daily or every couple of weeks, etc.

 

I tapered Valium, but when I was at your mother's equivalent dose (.5 Valium), I was still quite ill. In fact, when I was at .2, I went to the emergency room for intractable vomiting.

 

You are a good daughter for standing by your mother like this. I'm sure it's rather a thankless task right now. We are not the best patients while we taper benzos. We feel very lost and afraid.

 

Now that you have a place on the main recovery board, we can find you more easily. We will help in any way we can. There is a lot of experience among us and there is nothing we love more than seeing someone succeed.

 

Looking forward to hearing more from you.

Flip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Carol, thank you for putting my post here. I am in Poland. I just checked Ashton's manual and she says to quit tapering at 0.5 mg of diazepam equivalent. Maybe I am making this taper too long? But how to quit it altogether when a small reduction causes big jumps in my Mom's blood pressure and pulse?

Filiprain, My Mom is 81, she was taking lorazepam at night always, now when I taper it I am doing 2 doses. Presently 0.024mg at the morning and 0.024mg at the evening. She gets anxious about 4 pm but it usually is bearable to survive until evening. I recently started to cut 0.002 daily for 5 days in a raw and it was too fast so I held for three days until nausea, vertigo and the very high/very low blood pressure jumps became less severe and cut today next 0.002mg.

She had a panic attack tonight, but it passed fairly well in about half an hour. 

Thanks everyone for your insights. Mrubar

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mrubar, I believe Ashton retracted her "guideline" later on when she realized that everyone is different. I have seen people indeed jump at .5 and do just fine, but generally their tapers were pretty smooth.

 

Personally I think you may be going a bit fast. I tapered that last half mg at .01 and sometimes even .005 (which would be .001 and .0005 for Ativan) and I took the taper down to .01 total dose before I simply stopped. That was 8 months ago. I'm doing much better.

 

Are you in a position to slow things down a little? Especially at your Mothers age, these changes in chemistry and metabolism are very difficult. I am in my 50s and they were very difficult for me.

 

Flip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you so much Flip for responding.

I have been following Mrubar for a while and have been concerned for both her and her mother.

I know nothing about tapering but I can tell you that I sure know the pain of withdrawal.

 

Love Carol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mrubar, I believe Ashton retracted her "guideline" later on when she realized that everyone is different. I have seen people indeed jump at .5 and do just fine, but generally their tapers were pretty smooth.

 

Personally I think you may be going a bit fast. I tapered that last half mg at .01 and sometimes even .005 (which would be .001 and .0005 for Ativan) and I took the taper down to .01 total dose before I simply stopped. That was 8 months ago. I'm doing much better.

 

Are you in a position to slow things down a little? Especially at your Mothers age, these changes in chemistry and metabolism are very difficult. I am in my 50s and they were very difficult for me.

 

Flip

 

Hi Fliprain, thank you for your input to my struggles. I had the same impression that this it too fast. Yes, I will slow down a little, my previous "speed" of tapering was 0.01mg per 6-7days and with 0.002mg cuts it end  up 0.01mg per 5 days.

I have checked revised Ashton manual yesterday. The taper for my Mom definitely uncovers a huge difference in Her state on higher (before) and lower (now) dose of lorazepam. She is now pretty much the same like 2 years ago, when the tolerance started and doctors decided she is becoming demented. Now she NEVER is that lost in reality even with cog fog. But the CT scan, psychiatric tests e.t.c. never confirmed this diagnosis so I though I would try to take this drug off Her.

THANK you for telling me it was hard for you to get off and that age matters (Prof. Ashton says elderly people get off smoothly as the younger). Individual differences are of course to be expected.

Carol - thank you for putting my post here and give me some more details from someones experience, which an every little one is priceless.

Thank you BOTH and keep us in your prayers! Mrubar

P.S. My Mom woke up this morning in excellent shape. What's a relief!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello. Although I can't help with any taper advice, if my good friend Carol calls, I come running. Thank you for being there for your mom in such an intimate and selfless way. There are not many children who would take on the extremely difficult task, and you so obviously do it with great love and care.

 

I would say that I hope you are able to take good care of yourself during this time. I'm sure you are quite exhausted and pretty emotional. Try to eat well and get outside for at least brief walks everyday.

 

Your love and kindness are a blessing to all of us who have suffered so. It gives comfort to our hearts when we hear of good people like you. It allows us to be hopeful.

 

Bless both your mom and YOU.

 

M.  ;D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear sweet M

 

Thank you for the support for Mrubar.

Although I am a big fan of Pattylu's thread I have noticed that sometimes people stay only at that thread, resulting in missing the benefit of the collective experience.

 

I hope that Mrubar gets the support that here that I myself have the first hand knowledge of.

Love kindness Advice Understanding to name a few things off of the top of my head.

 

We are having a giant crisis in Calgary today. Hundred thousand people displaced from their homes.

Bad bad flooding.

We will see what tomorrow brings. (we are dry and warm in our home)

G'night  :smitten: c

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello. Although I can't help with any taper advice, if my good friend Carol calls, I come running. Thank you for being there for your mom in such an intimate and selfless way. There are not many children who would take on the extremely difficult task, and you so obviously do it with great love and care.

 

I would say that I hope you are able to take good care of yourself during this time. I'm sure you are quite exhausted and pretty emotional. Try to eat well and get outside for at least brief walks everyday.

 

Your love and kindness are a blessing to all of us who have suffered so. It gives comfort to our hearts when we hear of good people like you. It allows us to be hopeful.

 

Bless both your mom and YOU.

 

M.  ;D

 

Dear mplsgrl and Carol,

Thank you very much for your support. I am sorry Carol about the flood. It is so strange that during this "withdrawal time" world is just going on with normal and disastrous things. And people get all sorts of troubles on top of withdrawal... I am doing what I can for me but mainly try to make it to the end of taper. It will be much easier for me just to respond to withdrawal side effects AFTER that. It makes me feel bad to have my Mom still on it but I know I can't change the speed without harming Her. So I won't.

I am in Poland to August 18th so I wanted to finish and be with Her after that at least for 2 weeks. Later my Mom will stay alone and my brother will visit Her daily. In emergency he will help, otherwise he has to work and is not available. All my Mom's "friends" dissipated during this difficult time which breaks my heart and always will. I am shocked that people which were in our house for over 20 years turned away and forgot about Her now.

But She has us and She always was our best Friend so we will not abandon Her. I believe God will bless us like He always does.

You are already our blessing, Benzobuddies. THANK YOU for your kind words and love! Mrubar

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mrubar, Carol and the Devine Miss M :smitten:

 

This feels hopeful. Carol, I haven't seen anything about Calgary flooding. I will look today and I'm so glad you are high and dry so far. How horrible for those poor people (and I always think of animals, too). Our tornado in Oklahoma was horrific, but at least it was confined to a few miles and when it was over, it was over, just leaving a wasteland. People are wonderfully resilient if they have a little support. I hope the Canadian government is helpful with recovery programs.

 

Mrubar, despite your language barrier, your strength and intelligence just jumps off the page. I would be very interested to know how you are titrating the lorazepam. It's water soluble, isn't it? I sort of collect information like this in order to help others with their tapers. Usually, I'm helping with the actual titration. You seem to have it confidently handled and I'm interested in how you are managing.

 

It's terrific that your Mom woke up in good spirits this morning! That also means your day will go better. This part of her taper will need to be fine tuned on a daily basis according to her stability. Finishing by August when you leave Poland may be a little aggressive for her. It also may be fine. I assume she relies on you to mix and dispense the doses? So I guess there is no choice in the matter.

 

Her after taper will be difficult if she is like most of us. A type of depression and lack of motivation sets in. If she has strong interests in hobbies, they may wane. Outside contact is crucial at this stage, otherwise isolation can set in very easily. I'm so sorry to hear all of her friends have vanished. That happens to most of us. We are changed during the process and the things we once could give to people seems to change. This forum can be wonderfully supportive for her if she goes to the right places. It can also scare her. I don't even know if she is computer literate.

 

At any rate, she is so very fortunate to have you helping her get herself back. Do take care of yourself, as M and Carol caution. This is a hard time for you both. It can also be a sweet time of bonding and intimacy. My husband has been remarkably supportive during this time for me and we have a new depth in our relationship that is priceless.

 

We are here for you, too, Mrubar. You can use us to get practical information, to vent, to cry, to laugh - whatever you need.

:smitten:

Flip

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mrubar, Carol and the Devine Miss M :smitten:

 

This feels hopeful. Carol, I haven't seen anything about Calgary flooding. I will look today and I'm so glad you are high and dry so far. How horrible for those poor people (and I always think of animals, too). Our tornado in Oklahoma was horrific, but at least it was confined to a few miles and when it was over, it was over, just leaving a wasteland. People are wonderfully resilient if they have a little support. I hope the Canadian government is helpful with recovery programs.

 

Mrubar, despite your language barrier, your strength and intelligence just jumps off the page. I would be very interested to know how you are titrating the lorazepam. It's water soluble, isn't it? I sort of collect information like this in order to help others with their tapers. Usually, I'm helping with the actual titration. You seem to have it confidently handled and I'm interested in how you are managing.

 

It's terrific that your Mom woke up in good spirits this morning! That also means your day will go better. This part of her taper will need to be fine tuned on a daily basis according to her stability. Finishing by August when you leave Poland may be a little aggressive for her. It also may be fine. I assume she relies on you to mix and dispense the doses? So I guess there is no choice in the matter.

 

Her after taper will be difficult if she is like most of us. A type of depression and lack of motivation sets in. If she has strong interests in hobbies, they may wane. Outside contact is crucial at this stage, otherwise isolation can set in very easily. I'm so sorry to hear all of her friends have vanished. That happens to most of us. We are changed during the process and the things we once could give to people seems to change. This forum can be wonderfully supportive for her if she goes to the right places. It can also scare her. I don't even know if she is computer literate.

 

At any rate, she is so very fortunate to have you helping her get herself back. Do take care of yourself, as M and Carol caution. This is a hard time for you both. It can also be a sweet time of bonding and intimacy. My husband has been remarkably supportive during this time for me and we have a new depth in our relationship that is priceless.

 

We are here for you, too, Mrubar. You can use us to get practical information, to vent, to cry, to laugh - whatever you need.

:smitten:

Flip

 

Fliprain, Lorazepam is not soluble in water and very little in fats. I have chosen a milk titration and definitely prefer non homogenised milk over the homogenised one. I make the suspension a night before and use it from the fridge at the morning at 8 am and 8 pm. I worked for a few years in Pharmacology and Chemistry Dept. of NIEHS in Toxicology program, especially focused on drugs side effects so I am a little bit "familiar" with "experiments" from the bench side. I also published some data about dietary supplements which needs to be investigated more professionally than just "tried" by people. But I know first hand how some of them work and they are pretty good. I have no any idea/experience of medical approach to patient. My Mother's second language is French, she can also speak Latin, but English wasn't popular in schools when she got Her education. So She can't use this forum directly but I tell Her what you say and She knows we are not alone. And THANKS you for your hearts and giving your loving care to us.

She can handle now making solutions but I am more in routine so I am doing it. If necessary I will do it to the end of my stay here.

I am offering to take Her with us when I go back to U.S. but it will be just an empty house since we will go back to work/kindergarten. She is pretty tough and hates this drug. She is very determined to quit it which helps me to progress the taper. For a moment that is all. If I can help anyhow - please, always contact me.

I know also that lorazepam is soluble in alcohol, but did not want to use this property for withdrawal, worrying about alcohol's influence but I see aweigh in this forum is using it. Now I have (myself) doctor appointment so I have to go. Have a great weekend, Mrubar

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just KNEW you had some sort of background that helped in the titration, Mrubar. This is just excellent!

 

Re alcohol - there are many opinions about it and I do know it acts directly on GABA receptors. However, my excruciatingly painful and slow taper seemed to unpredictable with relying just on lipids to dissolve the tablets. I did resort to using a small amount of vodka, then adding milk. It was somehow reassuring to actually watch the tablet dissolve in the alcohol. It gave me greater confidence that dosing was accurate. At the bitter end, I used 100% alcohol. At most, I was consuming 3ml of vodka per day.

 

By mixing daily, like you're doing, at least you can be more certain that her daily doses are accurate within that 24 hour period.  :thumbsup:

 

You have a great weekend, too!

 

Flip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just KNEW you had some sort of background that helped in the titration, Mrubar. This is just excellent!

 

Re alcohol - there are many opinions about it and I do know it acts directly on GABA receptors. However, my excruciatingly painful and slow taper seemed to unpredictable with relying just on lipids to dissolve the tablets. I did resort to using a small amount of vodka, then adding milk. It was somehow reassuring to actually watch the tablet dissolve in the alcohol. It gave me greater confidence that dosing was accurate. At the bitter end, I used 100% alcohol. At most, I was consuming 3ml of vodka per day.

 

By mixing daily, like you're doing, at least you can be more certain that her daily doses are accurate within that 24 hour period.  :thumbsup:

 

You have a great weekend, too!

 

Flip

 

Dear Flip, I re-read your emails from this morning (of my time) now and I see that I have to make more breaks in between cuts. Do you remember if you were making a cut, then waiting a day or more before the next one or it just depended of how you felt?

I am going to try to do 2 days in a raw cut of 0.002mg and then wait one day. My Mom is responding to cut about 3rd day after I do it so it will be tomorrow.

Also, Ashton recommends reducing the morning dose first and then the evening dose. I have noticed that my Mom is more "unbalanced" when there is any difference between these 2 doses. Did you taper all together or morning earlier?

Why did you say my leaving Poland in August will be aggressive? My English is handicapped so sometimes I don't get the message one tries to send me not directly (do you know "Faulty Towers" when Manuel is told "throw them away" about rolls? That is how I speak this language)...

You meant it is too fast to finish by then or that She will feel horrible alone?

She does feel bad being alone but she loves my brother badly and he will be here every single day. Will take her out when She wants and help Her with everything needed.

So the loneliness will be only to fill those hours when he is not visiting.

Thank you VERY much for telling me about how big were your cuts and how low you went down before the jump. That is what I want to do, especially seeing Her body reaction to cuts now.

I hope me slowing down the taper will help now but I always dread Sundays, few of them already has mark of withdrawal during the Mass. She gets dizzy, nauseated fainty and then feel pretty bad all day. Well, we will see tomorrow.

I do walk a lot (with my 4 year old in fact I run a lot) and the place where I am is a SPA city. It has healthy mineral springs and a good climate. I love the food here and the taste of vegetables (which I don't really love that much in U.S.)

But emotionally I can't make myself enjoying ANYTHING. I used to love reading, meeting my old friends, listening to music, playing piano. I don't do ANY of it. All I enjoy is thinking about how to go through the withdrawal.

NOTHING makes me relaxed.

I guess maybe this is the way I am. I will hopefully just GET there and then vent AFTER, when my brother will take over after withdrawal time.

Have a good evening, Mrubar

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mrubar, I was just thinking ahead. If you average. .0015 cut per day it will take 33 days to get rid of that last .05 mg. And there might be days of holding, of course. If you slowed to .001 a day, it's 50 days, which would put you into August. There is almost no predicting how your Mom will feel for the first few weeks afterWAHe is finished. Hopefully, she should be about like now and then show steady improvement. Overall, I think you are doing this as carefully and graciously as is possible. And she is fortunate to have your brother willing to step in. I'm sure you have made him aware of the intricacies and difficulties that might arise, as in the panic and generalized anxiety.

 

Do you mean going to Mass causes anxiety that is worse than at home? If so, that is completely normal. There is something about being out in public that is difficult for us. The visual stimuli are sometimes too much for our frayed central nervous systems to handle, not to mention being around other people. Don't worry. This will pass as she heals.

 

You really must find some pleasure and relaxation for yourself, Mrubar. I know it's difficult when you are so worried and stressed, but your well being will directly translate to your mother's well being.

 

I understand what you mean about vegetables in the US. We have to search for fresh ones that are not mass produced. This time of year we have farmers markets, which is very nice. Just today, I roasted fresh asparagus, brussle sprouts, okra and summer squash in the oven and had a feast!

 

Good luck at Mass tomorrow. Sometimes it's helpful to sit in a relatively isolated area where there are not many people sitting around you. That usually makes us feel "safer"and less anxious.

 

Oh, I forgot to answer the taper question. I seemed incapable of holding, Mrubar. If I was having an especially bad day, I would cut less, sometimes as low as .005. (equivalent to .0005 lorazepam). I dosed three times a day and tried to keep them as equivalent as possible. If the doses were going to be uneven that day, I usually took the highest dose in the morning, because that's when I always felt the worst. Hope this is helpful to you.  :)

 

Flip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mrubar, I was just thinking ahead. If you average. .0015 cut per day it will take 33 days to get rid of that last .05 mg. And there might be days of holding, of course. If you slowed to .001 a day, it's 50 days, which would put you into August. There is almost no predicting how your Mom will feel for the first few weeks afterWAHe is finished. Hopefully, she should be about like now and then show steady improvement. Overall, I think you are doing this as carefully and graciously as is possible. And she is fortunate to have your brother willing to step in. I'm sure you have made him aware of the intricacies and difficulties that might arise, as in the panic and generalized anxiety.

 

Do you mean going to Mass causes anxiety that is worse than at home? If so, that is completely normal. There is something about being out in public that is difficult for us. The visual stimuli are sometimes too much for our frayed central nervous systems to handle, not to mention being around other people. Don't worry. This will pass as she heals.

 

You really must find some pleasure and relaxation for yourself, Mrubar. I know it's difficult when you are so worried and stressed, but your well being will directly translate to your mother's well being.

 

I understand what you mean about vegetables in the US. We have to search for fresh ones that are not mass produced. This time of year we have farmers markets, which is very nice. Just today, I roasted fresh asparagus, brussle sprouts, okra and summer squash in the oven and had a feast!

 

Good luck at Mass tomorrow. Sometimes it's helpful to sit in a relatively isolated area where there are not many people sitting around you. That usually makes us feel "safer"and less anxious.

 

Oh, I forgot to answer the taper question. I seemed incapable of holding, Mrubar. If I was having an especially bad day, I would cut less, sometimes as low as .005. (equivalent to .0005 lorazepam). I dosed three times a day and tried to keep them as equivalent as possible. If the doses were going to be uneven that day, I usually took the highest dose in the morning, because that's when I always felt the worst. Hope this is helpful to you.  :)

 

Flip

Hi Flip, yes, YOU are right about the farmer's market. And okra, mmmmm. We don't have it here and I miss it. In U.S. there is variety of options and high tolerance to all kind of needs which makes people competing toward the best. In a food market too. I like living there and feel grateful that I can find there many places to work in my profession, which I love. In opposite, Poland doesn't have many jobs and majority of people graduating from my field has to emigrate...

Well, this morning went well for my Mom so we have a break from waves.  I will keep the cuts as small as possible and make a day break after 2-3 days of smallest cuts. Thank you! Mrubar

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mrubar, I was just thinking ahead. If you average. .0015 cut per day it will take 33 days to get rid of that last .05 mg. And there might be days of holding, of course. If you slowed to .001 a day, it's 50 days, which would put you into August. There is almost no predicting how your Mom will feel for the first few weeks afterWAHe is finished. Hopefully, she should be about like now and then show steady improvement. Overall, I think you are doing this as carefully and graciously as is possible. And she is fortunate to have your brother willing to step in. I'm sure you have made him aware of the intricacies and difficulties that might arise, as in the panic and generalized anxiety.

 

Do you mean going to Mass causes anxiety that is worse than at home? If so, that is completely normal. There is something about being out in public that is difficult for us. The visual stimuli are sometimes too much for our frayed central nervous systems to handle, not to mention being around other people. Don't worry. This will pass as she heals.

 

You really must find some pleasure and relaxation for yourself, Mrubar. I know it's difficult when you are so worried and stressed, but your well being will directly translate to your mother's well being.

 

I understand what you mean about vegetables in the US. We have to search for fresh ones that are not mass produced. This time of year we have farmers markets, which is very nice. Just today, I roasted fresh asparagus, brussle sprouts, okra and summer squash in the oven and had a feast!

 

Good luck at Mass tomorrow. Sometimes it's helpful to sit in a relatively isolated area where there are not many people sitting around you. That usually makes us feel "safer"and less anxious.

 

Oh, I forgot to answer the taper question. I seemed incapable of holding, Mrubar. If I was having an especially bad day, I would cut less, sometimes as low as .005. (equivalent to .0005 lorazepam). I dosed three times a day and tried to keep them as equivalent as possible. If the doses were going to be uneven that day, I usually took the highest dose in the morning, because that's when I always felt the worst. Hope this is helpful to you.  :)

 

Flip

 

Hi Flip,

I would like to ask you about 2 things which you have mentioned. What do you mean you could not hold? Did you feel bad during holding?

I noticed when I hold my Mom's symptoms come back while when I cut they tend to fade away. BUT when I cut all the time it is too fast even with 0.002mg per day.... and then I She gets the "dying morning", nausea, vertigo, BP jumps. So I hope my new plan of cutting the smallest dose for 2 days and holding one should be gentler than anything before. I used to cut once per 5 days and saw 2 first days were the best, 3rd the worst and remaining two always wave, cog fog and other withdrawal side effects.

Each next cut is bringing more clarity and the pattern repeats. Now when I was cutting 4 days in a raw She was excellent everyday but  after that there were 4 mornings with the most horrible symptoms ever.

And the subsided in 3 days holding.

So maybe you felt the holding days relatively worse to reduction days similar.

THe second question is technical. Did you pulverised lorazepam before dissolving in alcohol? You convince me pretty much because I am all the time worrying that at his stage the error of dealing with suspension might be as big as the dose....

Thank you for your comments and if anyone else has experience in getting off lorazepam directly and has some more ideas to how to improve my work - please, let me know.

That is SO relieving that I can actually "talk" about it with someone who exactly knows what I am talking about first hand. Mrubar

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mrubar,

 

By "couldn't hold" I just mean even when I planned to hold, I would always wind up cutting a tiny amount. At those lower levels, my cuts ranged from .015 to .005. .015 when I felt well and .005 when I didn't. Holding like you're doing is entirely appropriate.

 

I tried a number of methods on the tablets. Remember I tapered diazepam, not lorazepam. I did crush them with a spoon. A mortar and pestle would work better, of course. I just don't own one. I finally just settled on putting the tablet in a small amount of vodka and leaving it sit for a while. When I next checked it, it would be dissolved with a small amount of the talc and magnesium stearate filler as sediment in the very bottom. The yellow dye would be evenly dispersed.

 

A few of us have used the minute amounts of alcohol with no apparent adverse effects. I'm not trying to talk you into it, Mrubar, just saying that it worked very well for me to keep the doses even.

 

I do know what you mean about having someone who has been through this to talk to. When I first found the forums, I was absolutely crazy from tapering at 5 mg a week, like the doctor told me to. Once I got here, things settled down nicely.  :thumbsup:

 

Flip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mrubar,

 

By "couldn't hold" I just mean even when I planned to hold, I would always wind up cutting a tiny amount. At those lower levels, my cuts ranged from .015 to .005. .015 when I felt well and .005 when I didn't. Holding like you're doing is entirely appropriate.

 

I tried a number of methods on the tablets. Remember I tapered diazepam, not lorazepam. I did crush them with a spoon. A mortar and pestle would work better, of course. I just don't own one. I finally just settled on putting the tablet in a small amount of vodka and leaving it sit for a while. When I next checked it, it would be dissolved with a small amount of the talc and magnesium stearate filler as sediment in the very bottom. The yellow dye would be evenly dispersed.

 

A few of us have used the minute amounts of alcohol with no apparent adverse effects. I'm not trying to talk you into it, Mrubar, just saying that it worked very well for me to keep the doses even.

 

I do know what you mean about having someone who has been through this to talk to. When I first found the forums, I was absolutely crazy from tapering at 5 mg a week, like the doctor told me to. Once I got here, things settled down nicely.  :thumbsup:

 

Flip

 

Thank you so much for responding so quickly! I use pulveriser for crushing half of lorazepam pill and then scrape it from there with milk many times untilnothing visible is left. I transfer all solution to the jar and add remaining milk.

I first weight each tablet because I see they are not having the same weight and calculate % of each piece for the amount of milk to get the same concentration. I have read that the uniformity of lorazepam pills is 90% between particular tablets so we can always get the 10% different dose from pill to pill. I thought weighting them would help at least to know briefly the mass we get. Also, I did not want to waste so much of the pill, tapering originally from 0,5mg.

I read that pills uniformity difference is neglectable between halves but can be significant between quarters. So I use halves.

 

In my job I worked for some time with nanoparticles solutions and we measured an optical density as an estimate of their "concentration". I dosed them in liquid after vortexing the sample. They were pretty close "concentrated". So I hoped that milk suspension would be sufficient in even distributing lorazepam particles  but of course I can't know. Milk batch may matter, milk fat content etc.  I only noticed that using non homogenised milk doesn't leave any residues on the jar wall after overnight "soaking" which I still see in homogenised milk (and I don't know if that means anything, just made me thinking that maybe it dissolves better in non homogenised...)

 

I am thinking about trying to dissolve one halve of lorazepam in alcohol and dilute with milk.

It is SO NICE and kind of you to be here for me and help me with this most stressful task in my life. Thank you from my all heart. Mrubar

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mrubar,

it warms my heart that you are taking such good care of your mother!

I know how grateful she is to have you.

All my best,

Ig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Flip,

Today we had a little victory - my Mom's blood work came out almost normal (she had for over 3 years megaloblastic anemia and lats of treatment for this and I voted for the lorazepam to be the cause). Also, she had 99 heart rate and was sighing a lot, looking weak and being in wave of other symptoms.

I am panicking about the pulse but I see many people reports this during the withdrawal. I will not reduce tomorrow (I did today from 0.044 to 0.042mg).

I will try to do something nice for myself tomorrow - it is my son's 5th birthday so we will celebrate with him. I am soaking crushed lorazepam in vodka, but it dissolves too slow to be used tonight. I might try it tomorrow.

Please, let me know if you had a high heart rate during tapering. Is there anything to lower it or JUST wait....

Best to you, Mrubar

 

Hi Ignatious, 

Thank you for your words. It is SO kind of you to type this message to me. I don't feel I am doing anything special other then I am acting like my Mom always did when I was in trouble. I know She would give up Her life for me if needed so I try at least to give Her a hand in this difficult times. The hardest for me is to be far from my husband. But I am trying to be brave. I know my husband understands me in this matter so we both are fighting the battle for my Mom. He loves Her very much too. She just really pretty much deserves all this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mrubar,

those are such kind words about your mother and husband. You are very special people.

Happy birthday to your son!! Five is a wonderful age.

Glad Mom's blood work looked good.

As for the rapid pulse, many of us have that.

Take good care of you too,

all my best,

Ig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mrubar,

 

I agree with Ig in that your family sounds so loving. It's heartwarming for sure.

 

On the heart rate, as Ig says, it can be pretty normal. Mine ran in the mid 90s for a while, on and off. My doctor put me on clonidine to bring it down and I truly think the clonidine helped with the taper. However, I'm still on the clonidine, 8 months later. Just today, I saw a cardiologist who said it was time to come off the clonidine and she is going to substitute metoprolol, a beta blocker. I've heard some not too good stuff about metoprolol, too, but what does one do?

 

I sort of wish I would have just lived with the high heart rate and not gone on any new meds. What does the doctor say about it? Of course her age and fragility needs to be considered and you don't want to take any chances.

 

I've never worked with lorazepam. It's interesting that it takes so long to dissolve in alcohol. I wonder why? You, my new friend, have a far better understanding of the scientific parts of this than most of us. It should serve you well during this time.

 

Happy birthday to your daughter. I hope it's very memorable for both of you. I actually remember my fifth birthday - my Dad taught me how to count to 100 that day. I was so proud. Smile.

 

Flip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mrubar,

 

I agree with Ig in that your family sounds so loving. It's heartwarming for sure.

 

On the heart rate, as Ig says, it can be pretty normal. Mine ran in the mid 90s for a while, on and off. My doctor put me on clonidine to bring it down and I truly think the clonidine helped with the taper. However, I'm still on the clonidine, 8 months later. Just today, I saw a cardiologist who said it was time to come off the clonidine and she is going to substitute metoprolol, a beta blocker. I've heard some not too good stuff about metoprolol, too, but what does one do?

 

I sort of wish I would have just lived with the high heart rate and not gone on any new meds. What does the doctor say about it? Of course her age and fragility needs to be considered and you don't want to take any chances.

 

I've never worked with lorazepam. It's interesting that it takes so long to dissolve in alcohol. I wonder why? You, my new friend, have a far better understanding of the scientific parts of this than most of us. It should serve you well during this time.

 

Happy birthday to your daughter. I hope it's very memorable for both of you. I actually remember my fifth birthday - my Dad taught me how to count to 100 that day. I was so proud. Smile.

 

Flip

 

Dear Flip,

My son's birthday was very nice and he was very happy (and this spreads around to other people).

My Mom woke up with 101 heart rate and 90/50 blood pressure. So clonidine would not be for Her. I called Her cardiologist and he said there is nothing I can do, just wait. So I did and it went down to 90 during the day. At the evening we all managed to go for a walk with umbrellas but I think that was very good because now it is 87. So I immediately reduced next step and now it is 0.0042mg.

 

Hmmm.... I would like to suggest you investigate facts against metoprolol. It is strong betablocker which I VERY much did not like. My Mom was put on it 3 years ago for jumpy blood pressure and it made Her having every night a horrible nightmares (or hallucinations in the onset of sleep) about Her dead parents coming to talk to Her.

We went to cardiologist a little over a year ago and he changed it to carvedilol, which I very much like and my Mom too. The nightmares stopped exactly on the first night off metoprolol.

It is modern alpha and beta blocker, more dynamic for heart needs and much more subtle. Metoprolol was a very strong drug. Besides of these which I described it messes up choesterol metabolism..

 

I would try to disscuss with your doctor why is he suggesting metoprolol over others. For me it would be the last to choose.

It is of course only my opinion and maybe you will feel good on it and it will work well.

 

I "gave" my son the idea about learning counting to 100 and that is what he did today besides of playing with his presents.

I hope you have a good evening. THANK you for your comments.

ANd to you, IGnatious, thank you for telling me that many of BB had the heart rate issue.  I hope it won't be too high though... Thank you for your wishes for my Son. I never saw him so proud like today. He feels completely grown up. Mrubar

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mrubar

 

I also had a high heart rate. It was around 105 / min.

They did many tests and could not find the reason for it.

When I stopped the drugs in soon went away.

 

Now it is usually around 80/ min.  i am 55 years Old.

my blood pressure was also quite High . Around 170/110

 

Now it is 130/85

 

It all went back to normal.

 

Love Carol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mrubar

 

I also had a high heart rate. It was around 105 / min.

They did many tests and could not find the reason for it.

When I stopped the drugs in soon went away.

 

Now it is usually around 80/ min.  i am 55 years Old.

my blood pressure was also quite High . Around 170/110

 

Now it is 130/85

 

It all went back to normal.

 

Love Carol

 

 

Carol, thank you for the information. Did you try to slow down your taper when the heart rate was that high? I see when I slow down it goes a little down either. I don't think I will be reducing the dose daily. I think I will be deciding about next dose every time I measure the suspension.

THank you for telling me it went all back to norm, i hope it will happen for my Mom too. Mrubar

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...