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Help Needed Re: Titration advice & schedule


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Colin,

I had a very bad night last night.  It was like going backwards.

I need your help. I have been withdrawing from 1mg Klonopin (1x at night for 15 years) by breaking tablets, IE: 3/4, 1/2,, 1/3, 1/4,1/8. a very inaccurate way.  I was doing this alone - didn't come across DR Ashton until 1/08 - just found Benzo Buddies.

Had started the W/D 11/6 - made many mistakes , including going up again to 1/2. And as I realize now, breaking tabs was the wrong, more painful way of withdrawing.  As you might expect I have had many horrible symptoms doing it this way, still having them.

Have been reading your replies about the titration method. I am down to 1/8. Could you help me figure out a schedule

I had 'numbers problems' before W/D so now with benzo fog...  Yikes!

I don't get the beginning part  - do you make the liquid everyday?

 

Thank you so much,

I am anxious to start this and be off this drug by the end of June.

Clair676

 

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Hi and welcome.

 

Colin will need to know what your current dosage is before he can prepare a schedule for you.  Perhaps you could create a signature line?

 

And I wanted to congratulate you for figuring out the problem and for taking steps to overcome it.

 

That benzo fog! Stinks doesn't it? It does get better, I assure you.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

Tony

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Thanks Tony for the heads up.

My son came over last night and helped me understand the basic concept of titration.  I hope this is the way to go for me.  I have been on 1/8 of my intitial doasge of 1mg of Klonopin for 3 1/2 weeks.  I have had a couple really bad days so am concerned about moving any further. 

My mood had been pretty good for a couple months but I sunk very low yesterday and I wasn't expecting it. Also, I am having pain in my extremities, hands and leg, this is a new symptoms.  I read that you can have more symptoms toward the end and even right after total w/d.  What do you guys think?  I am interested in the experiences of all of you that have made it to a low dose and then 0.

 

Clair

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Hi Clair,

 

I didn't realise that you had posted this topic - it was on the wrong board. No problem, I've moved it here for you.

 

Can you calrify for me: you use 1mg Clonazepam tablets, and you take just an eighth of one these tablets oer day (0.125mg). I certianly can work up a shedule for you. At this kind of dose, I suggest that the taper should last no more than a few weeks, or a month or so. Let me know what you think - I work up a schedule to any timescale you wish.

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Colin,  Sorry it took me so long to reply.  This hypersensitivity to light forces me off the computer [a sick feeling then a total body heat flush], limiting my browsing time and I missed your reply.  I am not that saavy on this site yet.

One thing, cutting, breaking tabs is such an inexact process, well, I made so many mistakes in withdrawing, having had my DR. say my "symptoms were not Klonopin w/d and go down to 1/2 immediately".  It set in action a dominoe effect of symptoms - I stayed at 3/4 for 9 months before I felt for sure it was the w/d.  From what I read, klonopin has the most symptoms and is harder to get out of your system.

 

Yes, I got down to 1/8 of the 1 mg of klonopin, and want to titrate from there. I would appreciate your expertise.  I would like to go off quickly but I am in a bind here, in that I still have so many physical symptoms. The emotional part is only 'the crying at the news'.  Do you think I would have less physical symptoms going off quickly?  You have so much knowledge having been activly involved with so many buddies w/d.  Sometimes I think I have become allergic to the klonopin.  I have Fibromyalgia & with that comes an increased sensitivity to everything also, including meds - I started to become allergic to many antibiotics.

 

Let me know what you think.

Thanks Colin,

Clair

 

 

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Hi Clair,

 

I will work up a schedule for you. First, you might well benefit by instead taking half your daily dose twice a day. So, before starting your taper, use the titration method (but don't taper) to enable you to control your dose more precisely. If you can split your tablet in half pretty accurately, then use half tablets, but if not, then use a whole tablet.

 

Simply, make up a liquid to 80ml (for example), using half a tablet. This will be four day's dose, so 20ml will a single day's dose. Instead of taking 20ml in one go, take two 10ml doses 12 hours apart. You should do this for a week or two so that you become accustomed to the new regimen. You can use this single preparation of liquid for up to four days (since it contains four doses), but if you are using milk to suspend the benzo powder, you will probably only want to use it for two or three days.

 

If you instead use a whole tablet in 80ml of liquid, 10ml will be equivalent to a single day's dose. Again, you might well benefit from taking two 5ml doses 12 hours apart instead of a single 10ml dose.

 

Doing this might well make you feel better. After a week or two, we can talk about the taper. As I indicated before, there is need for the taper go on for very long - a matter of weeks is probably all you will need.

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Colin,

Wow! you really are good at this!  We are fortunate to have you to help us!

 

Your advice to me makes perfect sense. 

Having posted re:titration on the wrong board initially,  not having heard anything, on  6/2, I started titrating on my own, using the inaccurate method of breaking the tablets into 1/8 sections - mixing the powder w/100ml of whole milk - I took this for 4 nights w/o tapering - during this period the pain in my limbs, the pulsating stopped & symptoms mellowed out.  The next 2 nights - I took out , consecutively, 4ml, then last night 8 ml, & drank the rest.

 

I will now follow all the suggestions you made in your second paragraph. I will do this for another week, in that I have been titrating for a week already.  Now I am confident I can do the final taper in 2 weeks. 

 

In that my hypersensitivity to light is worse this year than last, I don't think it will cease until I am off Klonopin completely.

At some point I have to get off the 50 mg of Amitriptilene I take once every day, for that drug definitely causes photosensitivity and I am sure it has exacerbated the hypersensitivity to light symptom.  Got any input on Amitriptilene w/d? :-)

 

Thanks again soooo much,

Clair

 

Let me know what my next 

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Colin,

 

Part two of that last post - in that I cut off mid sentence. Dah!

 

Let me know what's next - meaning the tapering schedule.

 

Again,

Clair

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Colin,

 

Part two of that last post - in that I cut off mid sentence. Dah!

 

Let me know what's next - meaning the tapering schedule.

 

Again,

Clair

 

With all your posts, you will see button to the upper-right of the post 'modify'. Click that button if you need to edit the content. ;)

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Thanks Colin! 

"Gosh you're swell" [< 1930's American movie slang) 

I obviously need advice on more than titration.

 

BTW, I am really doing well on this titration that isn't titration (huh?!).  I seem to be symptom free except for the hypersensitivity to light. I fear that will never go away.

 

I am confident about the finish now.

Clair

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That's good to hear, Clair. Generally, benzo pills are just too small, too potent and/or have a too short half-life for tapering - except 2mg Valium tablets, of course. Let us know when you are ready to start the taper and i will work up the schedule.
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Colin,  I know you are on holiday this weekend but I thought I would put in my request for the titration schedule you and I last talked about.  I want to start this by Friday of this week.  Seeing it ahead of time will help me to mentally prepare for it, envision it and delight in the idea of being free of it! :-)

 

In that for the 15 years I  have taken klonopin only once a day at night, splitting the dosage to twice a day didn't work for me - I had that RLS feeling at night & then also morning after taking my 5ml.  I did not experience this with taking the whole dosage at night.

 

As you suggested, I am currently taking 10ml of a mixture of 80ml of whole milk with 1mg klonopin, one time a day.  I have stabilized on this.

 

I hope you are enjoying your respite!

 

Thanks a head of time,

Clair 

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I'll do this tomorrow. If it not here for you Thursday morning, give me a nudge. ;)

 

 

Edit: how long do you wish the taper to last? I suggest some weeks, or a month. I certainly would not draw this out for very much longer. In any case, the you can always suspend further cuts if you at stage you feel the taper is too quick.

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Colin,

You first mentioned a week or two.  I am geared for that, no longer!  I had been on a 1/8 cut for a month before I switched, on your suggestion, to the 1/8 titration.  It will be another 2 weeks this Friday. Yikes! 

What say you?  I am doing very well...........

Tomorrow's fine.

Rest well.

Clair

 

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Hi Clair,

 

I think we are talking slightly at cross-purposes. I suggested a week or two stabilise, and a few weeks or a month or so for the taper. In any case, it is up to you how long your taper lasts. Do you wish your taper to last just two weeks? I would suggest any shorter, and you might require longer. In any event, if you find you need longer, simply delay the cuts in your schedule.

 

I'll post up a schedule tomorrow to start Thursday for you. ;)

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As I am sure you can tell, I am very anxious to get off this drug.  However I will bow to your expertise here.  I was hoping for the 'end' to be in 2 weeks, but know I may have to linger at some level or levels.  If I had known 11/6 what I know now, I would have been off this drug a year ago.  Just set up what you think is the best way for me to go and I will follow.

I truly appreciate your help Colin.

Clair

 

 

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Claire

 

Don't know if private message got through,

 

Here again is waht whe replied:

 

Concerning the benzobuddies query, tell her to read the Manual pp 38/39

> and Table 1 p 36, about sensory hypersensitivity - it is common in

> withdrawal and it will pass. It shows how much has been blocked out by 

> the

> benzos, like living for years/months in a dark room. The brain needs time

> to re-adjust to the unaccustomed stimulation.

 

INB

 

 

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Hi Clair,

 

Looking at this, there is no point in me drawing up a full titration schedule for you. Your taper is very straightforward.

 

I suggest that you simply continue to make up the 80ml of liquid, but instead of drinking 20ml from 80ml per day, drink just 19ml on the first day, 18ml on the next, all the way down to zero. This will take a little less than three weeks. I would taper any faster than this, but if you are determined to do so, cut 2ml every other day for the first week, and then 1ml every day for the second week (the taper will take about 14 days in total).

 

Keep us informed of your progress, and remember, if it begins to feel too tough, slow down, or stop cutting for a few days. ;)

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Colin, I am a little confused (<this is easy to do lately) - For 2 weeks I have been drinking only 10ml of the 80ml mixture (80ml with 1mg of powered Klonopin).

You mean start taking 1 less ml form the 10ml a day, 9, 8, etc??

Clair

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Oh, crossed wires. You indicated in an earlier post that you following the suggestion I had made in my 'second paragraph', but I guess you meant my second suggestion. No problem.

 

Continue with the 1mg in 80ml, and instead drink just 9ml for two days, then 8ml for another two days, and so on. ;)

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Colin,  a question concerning the mixing of benzo powder and the whole milk.... I don't remember seeing your suggested mixing technique, ie; an election mixer.  When I first prepared my titration mix, I used a electric mixer which of course caused too many air bubbles.  Since I read you, I just hand mixed it, but last night was looking at the mixture, wondering even though it looked blue (non-generic K), how well the insoluble K was mixing.  (<What is with this lady - she is just asking this question now?!!!!)  :D

Your input  ?????

 

I haven't the foggiest notion of new and/or old forum changes ????

 

Clair

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The benzo powder does not 'dissolve' in water or milk. Liquid benzo from your pharmacist uses other liquids to 'suspend' the benzo powder. However, milk does a better job of it than water because the benzo powder appears to have an affinity for the fat globules in full-fat homogenised milk. Milk is not ideal, but should work better than water. many of our members are using it, and it appears to work well.

 

There is no need to use an electric blender. So long as the tablets are ground up into a fine powder, and you give a good stir or shake, it should be fine. As you said, you are not trying to introduce air bubbles, after all.

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