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Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group


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now I wish I never started taking it as the withdrawal is not fun and the thought of another long taper just is so frustrating

Thanks for the input  :)  I was kind of asking why one should even try to stop taking Mirtazapine after acute Benzo withdrawal, given the fact that Mirtazapine is an antidepressant. I know the Mirt has side effects like overeating and (for low-dose users especially) some sedation, but if the "fix" is worse than the problem, then why attempt it?

The question comes up all the time. It's the to be or not to be of this place.

 

But it assumes one is "all OK" and considers themselves healthy while on the drug. Most people don't feel that way. My guess is most posters here would rather not be on a psych med period. And I think they got that knowledge through hard experience of the nuances of this situation.

 

One situation: If you ended up on benzos because of remeron in the first place, you don't want to stay on the Mirt, right?

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It's actually a bit different for me. A crazy project (if you can call it that), that pretty much consumed my youth and had serious consequences later on, left me with both me and those close to me (in that order  ;)  ) saying I should probably stay on antidepressants for life. Those 'consequences' made any further emotional reactivity dangerous for me, and because I did end up reacting emotionally in a way I wouldn't have done it I'd stayed on antidepressants, I now have around 10 years left to live (I'm 41 at the moment).

 

To top it all off, an unexpected withdrawal reaction to another antidepressant (I believed that antidepressant withdrawal symptoms were confined to the taper as long as you bothered tapering) was what led me into the 'Benzo mess' I've been in this last 6 months+. Also, my consultant feels that if I need to be on an antidepressant, it should be either that other antidepressant (Venlafaxine) or Mirtazapine.

 

As far as I know, all antidepressants have some cognitive and non-cognitive side effects, but those who most need and benefit from these drugs effectively end up with improved cognition simply because those side-effects would be outweighed by the negative effects of anxiety and depression. It looks as if any 'teasing apart' of those contrasted side-effects from the long-term cognitive effects of having been on Benzos would be hard to do in earnest ...

 

For most people of course, a little cognitive and related improvement goes a long way towards success and satisfaction in life. If the only major anxiety, depression and so on seems to be coming from the Benzo withdrawal, and the Benzo withdrawal shows signs of lifting, then of course a person with only limited history of mental health issues will probably feel (quite rightly imho) that they should try and come off any antidepressant they'd been using to treat that.

 

So it's like you say, I'd already have agreed - For most people in benzo recovery, the best bet looks to be narrowly on the side of withdrawing from Mirtazapine despite the benzo-withdrawal-induced sensitivity to that process that makes it so hard to carry through - hence the number of posts in this sub-forum...

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This sub-forum has already helped me a lot actually - I was thinking of going back on Venlafaxine after early withdrawal, because I've used both Venlafaxine and Mirtazapine in the past and found that Venlafaxine helped me feel and function better than Mirtazapine did. Now, I'm thinking more of staying on Mirtazapine :/

 

I took a ~5mg. dose of Mirtazapine around every five days, later ~every three, from the start of my taper, seeing as how the benzo I've been on (Clobazam) had already whittled my sleep down from 6+ to around 4 hours' quality sleep per night. I gathered from beyond this forum that introducing an occasional dose of something like Mirtazapine during a benzo taper is unwise to say the least*, so I 'bit the bullet' and went onto a very low nightly dose (2mg.) of Mirtazapine three days ago. {I'm already sleeping way better!} I've still got a quarter of my (low-ish) old dose of Clobazam yet to taper, so hopefully the small size of the Mirt dose will give me some leeway during acute withdrawal, should I need it.

 

Has anyone got pre-benzo experience with Mirtazapine, or any other insight that suggests that the Mirt experience itself is worse post-benzo to how it would have been before? Since I'm only three days into starting Mirtazapine in earnest (not at the best time perhaps?!), I wonder if I still have wriggle-room if the odds turn out to be well and truly stacked against me. At the very least, having some idea of where I'm headed would be helpful  :) 

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Psych meds ruined me. It has been torture. I had no emotional or chemical imbalances before these meds. I was living a full and productive life and was productive and happy. I was put on these drugs by ignorant doctors when my daughter died because ignorant doctors believe the reps who tell them these drugs are harmless. I now believe that as many as half of those that society thinks of as mentally ill are actually drug damaged. I can’t believe what these doctors did to me? I have been physically destroyed by these drugs. I actually lost my ability to walk at one point. Now if you have no history of mental illness and were mistakenly put on this poison the better question is why would I stay on it. I have a history or occasional trouble sleeping. I’m ready to go back to an anxiety free, depression free productive happy life of an occasional bad night sleep. I never should have been on this crap and that’s why I want off. I want my life back. Usually these drugs are given to people who are struggling with mental symptoms such as anxiety or depression. Why they would torture healthy people like myself with this stuff is beyond me. I have to wonder how many people who have been on this stuff since they were kids think they are mentally ill but are actually drug damaged. I had 36 mental symptom free years of life before I was given this stuff at a time of weakness. It was a mistake to trust the doctor. It is a mistake I have not made since and will never make again. I think these drugs are evil. If you feel you need them or that they have helped you then that’s fine. I have a hard time believing that these drugs have ever really truly helped anyone more than they have hurt them. Every long term psych med user I know is sicker than where they started. People who started with mild anxiety after years of “treatment” now can barely leave the house or take care of themselves. I don’t believe it’s just benzos. It’s all of this poison. I won’t spend any more time taking this poison than I need to. I want my life back.
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[20...]

Psych meds ruined me. It has been torture. I had no emotional or chemical imbalances before these meds. I was living a full and productive life and was productive and happy. I was put on these drugs by ignorant doctors when my daughter died because ignorant doctors believe the reps who tell them these drugs are harmless. I now believe that as many as half of those that society thinks of as mentally ill are actually drug damaged. I can’t believe what these doctors did to me? I have been physically destroyed by these drugs. I actually lost my ability to walk at one point. Now if you have no history of mental illness and were mistakenly put on this poison the better question is why would I stay on it. I have a history or occasional trouble sleeping. I’m ready to go back to an anxiety free, depression free productive happy life of an occasional bad night sleep. I never should have been on this crap and that’s why I want off. I want my life back. Usually these drugs are given to people who are struggling with mental symptoms such as anxiety or depression. Why they would torture healthy people like myself with this stuff is beyond me. I have to wonder how many people who have been on this stuff since they were kids think they are mentally ill but are actually drug damaged. I had 36 mental symptom free years of life before I was given this stuff at a time of weakness. It was a mistake to trust the doctor. It is a mistake I have not made since and will never make again. I think these drugs are evil. If you feel you need them or that they have helped you then that’s fine. I have a hard time believing that these drugs have ever really truly helped anyone more than they have hurt them. Every long term psych med user I know is sicker than where they started. People who started with mild anxiety after years of “treatment” now can barely leave the house or take care of themselves. I don’t believe it’s just benzos. It’s all of this poison. I won’t spend any more time taking this poison than I need to. I want my life back.

 

Well said , this stuff is criminal. I still can't believe what I went through.

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My question is to whom used and left a drug before rem. I have been stuck for a month. This is seriously a cruel wave. I wake up every morning with high anxiety, it is constant, and again before bed. It has been simply one month. Have you lived that even after months from discontinue?

 

I am like that: I can barely read a text, i can tolerate it hardly for a hour. People here and everywhere say that hold if you are symptomatic. But i have only psch sx anxiety, panic due to anx. Could i push it in small amounts monthly because i have only terrible anx. I dont want to prolong the whole process, but i dont need extra discomfort.

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[95...]

Psych meds ruined me. It has been torture. I had no emotional or chemical imbalances before these meds. I was living a full and productive life and was productive and happy. I was put on these drugs by ignorant doctors when my daughter died because ignorant doctors believe the reps who tell them these drugs are harmless. I now believe that as many as half of those that society thinks of as mentally ill are actually drug damaged. I can’t believe what these doctors did to me? I have been physically destroyed by these drugs. I actually lost my ability to walk at one point. Now if you have no history of mental illness and were mistakenly put on this poison the better question is why would I stay on it. I have a history or occasional trouble sleeping. I’m ready to go back to an anxiety free, depression free productive happy life of an occasional bad night sleep. I never should have been on this crap and that’s why I want off. I want my life back. Usually these drugs are given to people who are struggling with mental symptoms such as anxiety or depression. Why they would torture healthy people like myself with this stuff is beyond me. I have to wonder how many people who have been on this stuff since they were kids think they are mentally ill but are actually drug damaged. I had 36 mental symptom free years of life before I was given this stuff at a time of weakness. It was a mistake to trust the doctor. It is a mistake I have not made since and will never make again. I think these drugs are evil. If you feel you need them or that they have helped you then that’s fine. I have a hard time believing that these drugs have ever really truly helped anyone more than they have hurt them. Every long term psych med user I know is sicker than where they started. People who started with mild anxiety after years of “treatment” now can barely leave the house or take care of themselves. I don’t believe it’s just benzos. It’s all of this poison. I won’t spend any more time taking this poison than I need to. I want my life back.

 

I hear you and could have written this myself—situational sleep issue and this is what you get.  Same here.  These drugs are so dangerous.  And there are so many other ways drs. Should be helping this kind of issue—CBT, mindfulness and meditation,and even CBD or medical marijuana.  So hard to dig out of this mess!

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Jack, I've read several sources on this forum saying that Mirtazapine is [almost] unique among medications in its unsuitability for use around benzo withdrawal, often with no full explanation. But I guess it's like you said the other day - Hard to distinguish Mirt sx from protracted/"PAWS"-stage benzo withdrawal. The thing that looks clear to me (at least) is that Mirt tapering is generally harder if you've taken benzos around the same time (-not too long before or after-) that you've been taking Mirt.

 

Are you able to distinguish direct sfx of Mirt from w/s of either Mirt or Benzos?  If so, are they very troublesome by comparison? Don't feel you need to answer if I'm being intrusive - I do feel bad for you, and I certainly wouldn't let any 'head meds' off the hook (even though it's mainly the benzos that have felt like poison to me); I'm just naturally wondering what to expect for myself.  It's still not fair that you're all going through all this when I'm the one who deserves it. Hopefully some of you are getting on the other sub-forums to warn those in acute benzo withdrawal (and considering their options) to avoid antidepressants etc. -at least if they weren't usually depressed or anxious for long before benzos- and to try something natural like CBD (or -better still- build up their inner resources). Good work warning people on here to keep to that 'ultra-cautious' kind of taper as much as they need to - especially while tapering the last few milligrams!

 

My "hypothesis", based purely on the little I've read, is that with Mirt stimulating the production of the neurotransmitter GABA, and benzos stimulating instead the action of GABA receptors, the brain never recovers its ability to make use of GABA as long as it is on Mirt - When benzos are tapered and withdrawn with no 'outside' help, the GABA receptors would be stimulated, by the body's natural healing processes, into restoring their ability to 'bind'/process GABA. But, if extra GABA is being produced at the same time, the GABA receptors would have far less "incentive" to recover their functions, hence no final healing, and hence also the Mirt withdrawal agonies in spite of mega-slow, mega-fractionated tapers - let alone the complete withdrawal of Mirt at any stage [c/t or otherwise].

 

I have no option but to continue on Mirt, as it's simply a case of brilliant sleep with Mirt versus ~no sleep at all when I skip a dose or two - assuming I carry on tapering as I refuse to stop doing. My epilepsy is sleep-onset, and for me, '~no sleep at all' means a slow and agonised death if it goes on for long :-\ 

 

Every long term psych med user I know is sicker than where they started. People who started with mild anxiety after years of "treatment" now can barely leave the house or take care of themselves. I don’t believe it’s just benzos.

 

Apologies again it this is too blunt, but I wonder whether those of them who've been on other meds mostly ex-benzo-users who started taking the other meds around the time of benzo recovery-? Also, and the same yet again with the bluntness/answering, I wonder if you can tell whether simply being on Mirt has given you sfx that feel troublesome even in the light of your benzo and Mirt w/d fx-?...

 

On the other hand... has anyone got experience of 'titrating onto' Mirt during a benzo taper? And, does anyone have a "lighter" experience of being on Mirt, perhaps on the level of the 'swimmy', dopy feeling (sorry if that's not US English, but hopefully you get the picture!) that I experienced during previous spells on that drug, and which still prompted you to try coming off simply to recover your natural level of functioning?

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I've read in several places that Mirt doesn't affect the actual receptor sites involved with GABA as benzos do, but a few places (not Wikipedia mind you) will tell you that Mirt instead increases production of the GABA neurotransmitter (a substance rather than a brain structure AFAIK) - A separate issue, but obviously closely-related.

 

I've also read, yet again in several places, that little is known about the way Mirtazapine works...  ???

 

Pato - I believe Remeron is causing my extreme OCD symptoms that's why I want off of it.

 

Fair enough. Psych meds are known for 'paradoxical reactions' in some patients. There's likely another drug/substance out there which could help your OCD - Every medication etc. works differently on different people, and all work differently on the same person in ways that may be hard to predict...

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[e3...]
Pato - Yeah there might be something out there to help the OCD but I don't know if I want to go down that rabbit hole of trying to find it.
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[20...]
This shit is unreal I did a small cut from 19 to 18 mg over 2 weeks ago and now I am slammed with chemical anxiety, I know it will be gone in a day to a few days but it really is hard to deal with. I might just stay on 18 mg forever. This is not worth it, but like someone said its easy to get into the cutting frame of mind when you feel good but impossible when we feel bad. Damn these drugs areevil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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This shit is unreal I did a small cut from 19 to 18 mg over 2 weeks ago and now I am slammed with chemical anxiety, I know it will be gone in a day to a few days but it really is hard to deal with. I might just stay on 18 mg forever. This is not worth it, but like someone said its easy to get into the cutting frame of mind when you feel good but impossible when we feel bad. Damn these drugs areevil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

yes, i tihnk we are on the same boat now, i have it too, this chemical anxiety is the worst thing in wd. what tools are you using to deal with?as Dave said,wds can hit again at two weeks turn after one week, so going monthly is more conscious at that stuff.you are working full time?

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[20...]

This shit is unreal I did a small cut from 19 to 18 mg over 2 weeks ago and now I am slammed with chemical anxiety, I know it will be gone in a day to a few days but it really is hard to deal with. I might just stay on 18 mg forever. This is not worth it, but like someone said its easy to get into the cutting frame of mind when you feel good but impossible when we feel bad. Damn these drugs areevil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

yes, i tihnk we are on the same boat now, i have it too, this chemical anxiety is the worst thing in wd. what tools are you using to deal with?as Dave said,wds can hit again at two weeks turn after one week, so going monthly is more conscious at that stuff.you are working full time?

 

Hi June, yes it hits me about 2 weeks after cutting and lasts about a week, I'm so used to it I just accept it and go with it, yes I work full time in a high stress job and when that chemical anxiety hits its damn near impossible but I do it somehow. Today it is finally gone and I feel great. It sucks so bad because I want to get off this junk but the sx when I cut are just not worth it, I plan to stay at 18mg for a very long time and try to cut again later. There must be something about remeron that makes it a devil to get off after our CNS gets fried after benzo use.

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Ben, i think you, me and some others have only way to go Dave's path. Slow and steady. I am still symptomatic. This anx. sucks but somehow i think to push it 0.15 mg/monthly. I dont want to be static in spite of this condition. Now i have sometimes a cruel anx. that has brought me to taper like this. Do you want to scream sometimes due to this crazy anx.?
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[20...]

Ben, i think you, me and some others have only way to go Dave's path. Slow and steady. I am still symptomatic. This anx. sucks but somehow i think to push it 0.15 mg/monthly. I dont want to be static in spite of this condition. Now i have sometimes a cruel anx. that has brought me to taper like this. Do you want to scream sometimes due to this crazy anx.?

 

Mine might not be as bad as yours as it only last for a few days about 2 weeks after I cut, nowhere near as bad as the benzo wd anxiety but no fun either.

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[20...]
It weird how our mental states can change when we feel good, like right now I am stable and feel good, in my mind i'm like Ok time to cut, but its just not going to happen. The way I feel 2 weeks after a cut is just not worth it. Remeron is not damaging me like a benzo did so just no rush here.
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[e3...]

It weird how our mental states can change when we feel good, like right now I am stable and feel good, in my mind i'm like Ok time to cut, but its just not going to happen. The way I feel 2 weeks after a cut is just not worth it. Remeron is not damaging me like a benzo did so just no rush here.

 

What do you notice symtom wise. Especially 2 weeks after a cut?

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[20...]

It weird how our mental states can change when we feel good, like right now I am stable and feel good, in my mind i'm like Ok time to cut, but its just not going to happen. The way I feel 2 weeks after a cut is just not worth it. Remeron is not damaging me like a benzo did so just no rush here.

 

What do you notice symtom wise. Especially 2 weeks after a cut?

 

2 weeks after I cut it's like clockwork, My symptoms are chemical anxiety and hard time falling asleep.

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It weird how our mental states can change when we feel good, like right now I am stable and feel good, in my mind i'm like Ok time to cut, but its just not going to happen. The way I feel 2 weeks after a cut is just not worth it. Remeron is not damaging me like a benzo did so just no rush here.

 

So you are saying, rem wd anx is nothing near compared to benzo wd. I dont know and i dont want to know it, but the steady anx. is so frustrating for nearly 1 year. Anyway, i am holding like you. Then i will take my steps like a baby.

 

One more thing. You or anybody tried niacin, vit c or taurin for anx.? I am really curious about that. Mag or Tulsi tea havent worked. So i want to take a thing useful at least on waves...

 

Thanks

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For me benzo withdrawal anxiety was so severe that I was in a constant state of severe panic. I was had to consciously work to keep myself from shaking. I could not even play guitar because my hands were shaking so bad. I know I don’t experience anything near that when tapering mirt. That’s just my personal experience. I am sure someone could suffer from the level of anxiety I felt in benzo withdrawal from Remeron but I have not yet.
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[20...]

It weird how our mental states can change when we feel good, like right now I am stable and feel good, in my mind i'm like Ok time to cut, but its just not going to happen. The way I feel 2 weeks after a cut is just not worth it. Remeron is not damaging me like a benzo did so just no rush here.

 

So you are saying, rem wd anx is nothing near compared to benzo wd. I dont know and i dont want to know it, but the steady anx. is so frustrating for nearly 1 year. Anyway, i am holding like you. Then i will take my steps like a baby.

 

One more thing. You or anybody tried niacin, vit c or taurin for anx.? I am really curious about that. Mag or Tulsi tea havent worked. So i want to take a thing useful at least on waves...

 

Thanks

 

Hey June ,

 

I tried pretty much every supplement during benzo wd and nothing seemed to help. Yes, although the anxiety is no fun at all when I do cut the remeron, it is not even CLOSE to what I experienced during benzo withdrawal , it was other worldly bad. Yes baby steps for sure, I will hold this time for a long time as I am in no hurry like I was when I was in benzo tolerance.

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Anyone try NAD+ for Remeron?

 

Yes, I take NAD+ supplements. I suggest not taking actual NAD+ molecule in any form (topical, sublingual, or pill form). It'll disrupt your fragile circadian rhythm. Use the precursor molecule NMN as a sublingual powder or gel and take it only in the mornings. Go slowly with the dose and monitor for improvements or setbacks as you increase it day by day.

 

I use NMN and NAD+ as part of my post-benzo and mirtazapine weaning recovery. I can't ingest NAD+ without it disturbing my sleep so I only use it as a face cream strictly in the morning.

 

Let us know how it works out for you!

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