Author Topic: Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group  (Read 185696 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group
« Reply #2720 on: August 28, 2020, 06:23:50 pm »
Does [...]. Onion have a power to f..k one's life? Yes, it does. Lol. While i have been engaging with Vit C to get relief from anxiety for some day, i ate a pot of lemon sauced onions with fishes as an old habit. Today, i got 6 sxs. Yes, it is incredible. Too much anxiety, stomach pain, restless bowel, depression, headache, restless face nerves.

I dont know the mechanism what lies beneath this. Whether first the onion sucked acidity of my stomach and then this leaded to anxiety because of broken stomach and bowels. I was doing very well for 5 or 6 days due to Vit C 1000mg for one day, but today has been a real agony. I had to take one more and it settled down a little.

I wonder now how i will cope with lots of sxs at the same time when i am ready to go on bigger cuts like 5 % or 7 %. Thankfully, there is a savior for me now, that is at least Lipo C.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group
« Reply #2721 on: August 28, 2020, 06:32:32 pm »
Does [...]. Onion have a power to f..k one's life? Yes, it does. Lol. While i have been engaging with Vit C to get relief from anxiety for some day, i ate a pot of lemon sauced onions with fishes as an old habit. Today, i got 6 sxs. Yes, it is incredible. Too much anxiety, stomach pain, restless bowel, depression, headache, restless face nerves.

I dont know the mechanism what lies beneath this. Whether first the onion sucked acidity of my stomach and then this leaded to anxiety because of broken stomach and bowels. I was doing very well for 5 or 6 days due to Vit C 1000mg for one day, but today has been a real agony. I had to take one more and it settled down a little.

I wonder now how i will cope with lots of sxs at the same time when i am ready to go on bigger cuts like 5 % or 7 %. Thankfully, there is a savior for me now, that is at least Lipo C.

Histamine! That's the connection!

Fish - unless is super fresh (and I mean like absolutely fresh from the sea, or flash frozen and flash thawed) is super high in histamine

Lemon - High in histamine and a histamine liberator

Onion - Histamine liberator

[...]! You ate a histamine bomb! Even all these years out, I would probably still end up in bed if I ate what you did, as delicious as that sounds. All of those symptoms you describe are squarely inline with histamine intolerance. And because the Mirt messes so intently with the histamine receptors, we're susceptible.

My master reference for histamine in foods.

https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/21_FoodList_EN_alphabetic_withCateg.pdf

Hang in there brother!

[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group
« Reply #2722 on: August 28, 2020, 07:47:04 pm »
I am grateful for this link [...]. You mentioned this before and i am taking into consideration it whenever i face with unknown foods or additives. I am also hiding this Deutsch link to get benefit. But, as you know, the day i started Remeron,the day also was i stopped tomatoes. Whenever some accuses me being high histamin, i am always giving this example. Lol. Briefly, i am so conscious. For example, i pay attention even the additives in salt and i buy with no hist. kind.

In this situation, i only accuse onion. Because, i ate fish last week, i got agony from it, but there was no GI issues. The lemon was a bit, so i neglect it, but i am sure that onion was too much and it gave me GI issues and big anxiety. Fishes were both last week and this week big kind not the sardines which is naturally high histamin even if it is fresh, but as you said they may have been waited some in bazaar. [...], what is the libarator exactly, what is the difference with high hist? So, i [...] search the fresh fish if i want to eat anymore.

I am seeing many people on rem are eating bananas to elevate mood and sleep. I think i should just rearrange my diet again. Mainly i am feeding with chicken, beef meat and fruits and veggies. Lastly, what is the risk of potatoes?
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group
« Reply #2723 on: August 28, 2020, 08:11:41 pm »
I know you are super careful! :) But yes, if that fish was hanging out in the market for even a short amount of time, the histamine would build up rapidly. The more a meat or fish has time exposed to the air, the more decomposition that happens, the higher the histamine levels rise. Trust me my friend, it took me a long, long tome to get the hang of the histamine eating.

So really, you likely had the worst of both worlds. You had high histamine in terms of the fish, but then the onion being a liberator actually accelerates the release of histamine from other foods. So it is like an amplifier. Does that make sense? It's a fine balance. I can eat some histamine liberators. And now that I have healed quite a bit, I can even eat some high histamine foods. But if I eat the wrong combination, it will still hurt.

Potatoes should be fine. I have never had a problem with potatoes and they have a score of 0 on that list for being neither a high histamine food, nor a liberator.

[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group
« Reply #2724 on: August 28, 2020, 08:30:07 pm »
What does vitamin C do for histamine? [...] what do you eat everyday?
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group
« Reply #2725 on: August 28, 2020, 08:48:36 pm »
What does vitamin C do for histamine? [...] what do you eat everyday?

Vitamin C supports the levels of DAO. DAO is what breaks down histamine and keeps histamine levels in check. So supplementing with vitamin C is super important in balancing that histamine response. But persons with histamine intolerance need to be careful with how they get the vitamin C. Obviously citrus is out for the most part. I get my vitamin C from berries, predominately camu camu powder.

I eat fresh meat. As fresh as I can be assured I get it. Poultry, beef, and some fish that I'm reasonably sure has been frozen immediately. I don't thaw these on the counter or in the refrigerator, I defrost them in the microwave and cook them promptly. if I have leftovers, they go into the freezer. And even though it is kind of a bummer to have to re-thaw and microwave them, it is worth it. Histamine levels increase crazily even in refrigerated foods that have already been cooked. The fresh chicken, beef, or fish you had Friday night may hurt you on Saturday night after the leftovers have sat in the fridge for 24 hrs. So my diet is fairly protein heavy and as fresh as possible.

But for carbohydrates, I like potato, quinoa, rice, and whole grain or gluten free pasta. Vegetables are predominately root vegetables like squash, yams, carrots. Leafy greens are romaine lettuce, chard, collard greens. Spinach I stay away from, it is high in histamine. Fruits are berries, melons (except watermelon), apples, etc.

Occasionally I break the rules. It's important to remember that we all have a certain threshold for histamine. And histamine is actually super important for our bodily processes. But there is a limit that with those of us that are sensitive to it, is really important to obey. It's like a bucket inside you that has an overfill line. If you stay under that line, you're going to feel alright. You go over that line, you're going to feel it hardcore and it takes several days of behaving for the levels to drop back below that line. Outdoor sources of histamine like pollen contribute to this. So in the winter for example, I can eat bananas a little more regularly. This time of year, it's a bad idea.

Anyway, I [...] some of this helps. I think that histamine issues are SUPER common in people who have used, or are using, Remeron. My system has come along way in healing from it. Just like GABA receptors upregulate as the Benzo damage heals, so to do the histamine receptors.

[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group
« Reply #2726 on: August 29, 2020, 07:34:05 am »
That's wonderful information [...], i think you deservr a PhD degree in this section.lol.According to things you said and i lived firsthand both, the histamin side of remeron is being underestimated in the FB groups, SA or some otherwhere. For example, Erin Green said that she went on well with her pace, but had debilitiating headaches, but once she said she regularly took lemon sauced olives. May it be a reason of that. I remember you talked about quercetin on this forum somewhere, may i take it to alleviate some sxs at this time?headache or sth else?

Even i name it as wave sometime, it may be a thing stemming from last or previous days leftover. What do you think about the presence of the issues once you eat it?Last week thursday i ate fish i felt terrible friday and i felt comparably well sunday.This week i ate fish&onion combo thursday(bazaar day) and as if a lorry hit me you know and i will be cautious after that. I [...] it settles down a little today.

Lets talk about the freshness of protein. How can i assure myself about this? In modern world, you know, for example a beef is processed somewhere and then sent to the markets 3 hours or more away with frigochain. Then, it may wait there for some days, but still in frigochain and we buy it.It is also valid for chicken. I think i need to rearrange my habits like that i should buy beef from the safe street butcher where the flow is rapid. I think you agree that. But it is too hard for chicken, as you know it is very hard to find organic chicken, so most of us buy it from the markets. Fish is a hard issue too. I live by sea. But, when i ask to seller whether it is fresh or not, the answer of course "brother, they have just come from the sea" but it may be a big lie.But one thing i learn recently is markets are safe than bazaars, because there is a frigochain, even if their products are olderfrozen.

Lastly, i want to ask some question about the foods which are known as banned. For example, milk is known as dangerous on benzo boards, but in the list some types of milk are free. Like that i want some advice from you for below foods if there is a safe kind of them:

1)Cheese
2)Yoghurt
3)Milk
4)Gluten free wheats or foods
5)Protein Bars(to balance blood sugar)
6)Raw Almond(to balance blood sugar)
7)Beans(i dont understand they are safe in the state of being fresh opposite to they are unsafe while they are being dried)

Forgive me, i took your time again, but your effort is 💯/💯 for us. As you see, i suffered yesterday and you again reassured me. Thanks a lot
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 07:52:14 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group
« Reply #2727 on: August 29, 2020, 11:52:39 am »
I really do think the histamine issues are overlooked with Remeron because so often, this drug is looked at as only a psychiatric medication. But with its affect on the histamine receptors, it really goes much further than that. I know Jack has written before about doctors who have basically quoted him Google results when advising him on medications. I know that when I was in the hospital, I told one of the psychiatrists that I thought Remeron's affect on the histamine receptors was troubling and the psychiatrist said, "What are you talking about, it doesn't have anything to do with histamine!" Wow... That is completely wrong. And these are the people we entrust our well-being to.

Quercetin may work for you. I have taken it on and off. It often comes mixed with Vitamin C. It is worth a [...]. Another natural source of quercetin would be tart cherry extract - either in capsule form, or liquid. It's so hard to recommend supplements because I know they are costly and what works for some may not work for others. Another thing that can be supplemented is DAO. That is really expensive, I have never done it, but done things instead to support DAO production like the camu camu form of Vitamin C.

So here is the interesting thing about how histamine affects a person who has an intolerance. Some people have an almost immediate reaction to histamine-heavy food. Flushing, difficulty breathing, dizziness, sneezing, etc. That is not how it happens for me, nor most people with Remeron use from what I have seen. With me, I tend to feel symptomatic many hours after I've eaten. I think this is because as the food is digested in my intestinal tract, the histamine is released due to insufficient DAO and that is when I feel poorly. And feeling poorly like that lasts many hours to a few days or so before starting to lift. Anxiety, headache, dizziness, depression, these were my big symptoms of histamine reactivity.

Freshness of animal protein. It truly is an issue. And I would imagine that depending on where you live in the world, it can different. For me, the beef and chicken I buy are from local farmers. The benefit of this is that the protein's journey from slaughter to my plate is much shorter than meats that are sold through a conventional grocery store. In terms of fish, I never buy fish that is being displayed. I always purchase cod, salmon, and other fatty fish that have been flash frozen. Shellfish are another big no-no. Shrimp, scallops, clams and oysters, all of these have massive histamine loads which is why so many people are "allergic to shellfish."

Here's my understanding about the foods you listed taken from the link I sent, and my own experience:

1)Cheese
[...] Note: "young cheese" like cream cheese, sheep cheese, goat cheese, they are generally well-tolerated. My rule is, the more a cheese smells, the more you should stay away from it. Because cheese that has that strong cheese odor is aged - and aged means histamine.

2)Yoghurt
[...] Note: Yoghurt can be tolerated by some people, I never did well with it personally. The strains of probiotic that are often in yoghurt can be of the high-histamine producing type.

3)Milk
[...] Note: Sheep milk, goat milk, and cow milk are ok, but preferred pasteurized. I could tolerate milk sometimes.

4)Gluten free wheats or foods
[...] Note: I did pretty well with gluten free breads, and even gluten containing breads. This is one people need to experiment with. Often times breads contain vinegar, which can be troublesome. Sour dough breads can be tricky. And obviously if someone has an underlying gluten intolerance, that can aggravate things.

5)Protein Bars(to balance blood sugar)
[...] Note: Be careful for those that contain soy. My real problem with protein bars is that there are SO MANY ingredients in them. The less ingredients, the better. I have at times used whey protein bars for muscle growth, but again, watch the ingredient lists.

6)Raw Almond(to balance blood sugar)
[...] Note: I do ok with raw almonds. They rate low on the histamine scale, so they may be ok for you. Pistachios if they are available are a good nut for those of us with histamine intolerance I have found.

7)Beans(i dont understand they are safe in the state of being fresh opposite to they are unsafe while they are being dried)
[...] Note: I have never done well with beans and histamine. Beans/pulses are both high in histamine AND histamine liberators, so they are generally not recommended.

My best advice to anyone trying to figure this out is to do an elimination diet. And it doesn't need to be a[...] long one.

The way I did it was this. I knew I tolerated baked chicken, rice, and carrots very well. And for a full week, I ate nothing but that. Drove my family[...], but oh well, it needed to be done. :) Then every two days after that, I would add a new food. So maybe I would [...] a cheese, or beef, or pasta, or some kind of baked product. Wait two days after trying each of those. If I had no reaction, I'd add it to my list of "safe" foods. If I reacted, I'd add it to my "unsafe" list.

For all the aggravation of paying this kind of attention to food, I will say that it is totally worthwhile. Knowing what you can eat that won't cause you to feel poorly is amazing. Sometimes I will "cheat." I'[...] have that slice of pizza loaded with tomato sauce. Or I'[...] eat that hamburger that I don't know where the meat came from. Or I'[...] have that chocolate dessert. But that is rare. Like once a month. And I can get away with that.

I [...] this helps, buddies!

[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group
« Reply #2728 on: August 29, 2020, 01:19:14 pm »
Of course this helps brother. You are absolutely great!

PS1:I ate a pot of mussels 1 month ago,thought i was passing away.
PS2:Here is the mainland of pistachios.
PS3:I [...] WD of cuts arent bigger this histamin bomb times...
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group
« Reply #2729 on: August 30, 2020, 05:41:16 pm »
Of course this helps brother. You are absolutely great!

PS1:I ate a pot of mussels 1 month ago,thought i was passing away.
PS2:Here is the mainland of pistachios.
PS3:I [...] WD of cuts arent bigger this histamin bomb times...

[...], it it makes you feel better it can probably go either way. I had a major problem with histamine when I first quit benzos and tapering Mirt was getting rough. I ate too much histamine on Christmas last year and spent the night throwing up. Now I am at 3 mg and I eat fish, lobster, clams, can tolerate spinach again if I donít get too carried away. I eat eggs for breakfast everyday and am eating way too much fast food lately than I should. I am eating massive amounts of histamine lately and experience only minor discomfort. I even eat chocolate again. I am going to start getting strict with my diet again tough to help me through the low doses at the end of this taper. I expect to have a rougher fall allergy and spring allergy season as well. Just want to report that my histamine issues are improving. Last spring I ate salmon for dinner and felt like I was back in acute benzo withdrawal for a week. I could  eat salmon now with minimal issues.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.