Close to 18 months - D/r subtly breaking right and left :)

Hey Guys,

 

I wanted to post a quick one - the derealization is REALLY going away.  I can be driving down the road and reality is flickering through Sitting on the toilet and staring at the walls (LOL, T.M.I) and I'm "here".  You guys - this really DOES start to happen.

 

It has taken me almost a year and a half - and this LAST month (month 17) is the first time I'm getting this stuff.  And that's even an arbitrary time.  It might have happened at month 23 or 19 or 27 or whatever. It's not the point of "what month" it happened, but that it DID happen - IS happening - and that it was NOT happening at month 16 or before.  That is to say, if you're at month 8 thinking "it will never happen" - that's normal.  We need to change our thinking from "it will never happen" to "it just hasn't been enough time yet, but it's coming".  

 

There is no point for me to post this if I can't get others to believe it.  It's a waste of typing and a waste of time for you to read it! 

 

Believe me - the derealization WILL leave.  I was one of the worst cases on here - at least that I have read. If you look back in my posts, you can see that I was constantly, CONSTANTLY asking others about this symptom - wanting to know when it left, what it felt like, what the signs were, etc.  I "never" got a full-enough answer. I could never get enough informaiton.  I wanted an in-depth answer and a guarantee. 

 

Well - here it is - my answer for you.... This is the best I can do...

 

D/r for me was a thick fog - a separation from the rest of the world. I felt like my ears were blocked and could only hear lower frequences and amplitudes - and couldn't process sound at the top of the auditory spectrum. I felt like my vision looked like a thick pane of glass - I often describe it as a fog - like I "can't get into the world".  It felt like I was wearing an astronaut suit and floating inside a fishtank.  This huge separation from reality, from my family, even from my feelings. Everything looked wrong, too dim, too dark, so so far away.  Nothing was normal. NOTHING. In the beginning, everything looked 2 dimensional - like I was watching life on TV - and I wasn't even "here".

I realize that now as the fact that my brain just couldn't process the entire spectrum of sensory information  - so it felt like being blockedout. It still does - but it's just much much much lighter and then sometimes, it breaks through altogether. 

 

Around 11 months, I started to see a "glint" to objects visually - that was my first and only change until recently.  Things started to look 3-D again. And yet, I still had the disassociation or separation. I still had the pane of glass.

Around 15 months, I started getting GLIMPSES of this pane of glass breaking through late late at night - about 11pm and beyond. Then, the next month, at 16 months, this started happening earlier in the evenings - still only on certain days -maybe once  week?  At most. Other nights, I could be completely back in d/r.  Heavier and nothing like the night before. But I was starting to get excited because I could TELL - THIS WAS PROGRESS!  And it's "okay" to get excited and to share about this!!! In fact, I think it's important that we do!! The more you can TELL yourself - HEY - I'm improving!! - the more your brain can TRULY relax - the more serotonin you will make from positive thoughts.  So "celebrating" my progress even though I am not healed is a huge part of making gains.  I may not be healed yet, but I am HEAL-ING.  And damn-straight -it's worth noting and looking forward to even more progress...

 

At 17 months - and in the last 3 weeks, I have noticed that d/r wants to break at all hours of the day and in different situations - it just happened to me in the garage this morning after taking my kids to school.  I have to smile a BIG HUGE smile, because I KNOW this is going to completely go away now. I"m not sure entirely when, but I'm positive of it. My brain is showing again and again that it can do it! Yours will too.

 

Anyhow - so then in the last month, I started taking 6000iu of Vitamin D a day along with my magnesium. I experimented with 2000iu and 4000iu, but I never really got a breakthrough until I stayed at 6000iu.

It is my PERSONAL belief (i.e. - just mine)  that my body was completely D and magnesium defiicient and had long since used up these nutrients fighting months and months of this physical stress.  I can STILL to this day FEEL the magnesium when it hits in my CNS It is a calm and a relaxation that I have missed for so long.  I believe I use up every bit of magnesium I put in there on a daily basis.  Just countering the stress as I heal. And the vitamin D was a no brainer - I was inside for almost a year - no D in any way - and even still - not enough sun on any kind of a daily basis to make the necessary D.  Now that I have been supplementing with the 6000iu, I plan to stay on it forever.  I feel better mood wise than BEFORE benzos while taking the D and magnesium together. I have also learned that taking D "uses up" magnesium in the blood to process it.  So, I will always take them together. Otherwise, you can get a magnesium deficiency if you aren't replenising the magnesium in your body through food or supplementing. I have found no other way to get enough of these nutrients through food. 

 

What have I noticed since starting D and magnesium?

 

- d/r is breaking at all times of the day, and more often

- sense of smell is heightened and has come back!

- sleeping like a BABY - and it's good deep sleep

- mood is FANTASTIC - even if I have other wd symptoms

- no PMS bloating - no PMS w/d issues - no PMS mood issues - for the first time in my life

 

I had a virus last week and had a BAD wave the 2 days I got it, but after that, I completely returned to this new baseline state.

 

These 2 vitamins are making a world of difference for me, and while I don't suggest any advice, I will list them to share what I take - just in case anyone is wondering.

- I am taking 6000iu a day of vitamin D3 - (the oil in softgels). I have read that powdered tablets AREN'T a good source. It needs to be oil in softgels.  ANY good brand is probably fine. And it's cheap. I have started my kids on liquid D drops - that's how huge it has been for me.  MUST TAKE VITAMIN D WITH FOOD THAT HAS SOME FAT IN IT - and MUST TAKE WITH MAGNESIUM.  (do not just take with a glass of water or juice- take with food!) D3 is fat-soluable and will not absorb without fat present.  A typical meal is just fine. 

- I am also taking Doctor's Best brand 100% Chelated Magnesium - 4 pills is 100% of the RDA (400mg) - I take half (2 pills) in the morning with my vitamin D - and food - and I take the other 2 pills before bed.  Sleeping is awesome.

I still take fish oil (Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega liquid) but now I am taking the kind without the D in it, since I am taking the D separately. AND - I haven't had any fish oil in about 2 weeks - so the other 2 vitamins are what is really helping me now.

I will never be without vitamin D and magnesium again in my life - even beyond full recovery from benzos.  They are that powerful for me.  Best of all - they are simply required nutrients at healthy doses. They are not things like "St. John's Wort" or "Theanine" or any of the "trial" compounds that our bodies do not normally take in.  They are not herbs. They are simply the nutrients my body would get if I lived in nature and got adequate exposed-skin sunlight and ate foods grown in magnesium-rich soil.  The way my body is responding at this point in healing is excellent. 

 

Do I think these vitamins are the reason for my healing?

 

In short - no.  I think TIME is the reason I am healing. But are these vitamins aiding in my relief of symptoms?  YES. ABSOLUTELY.  Even in normal, non-benzo affected people, these vitamins can relieve PMS, insomnia, and anxiety-depression.  So - in the same way, at this point in healing, they are also greatly impacting my mood and symptoms.  They DO help to produce serotonin and dopamine from what I have read - and that would make sense. However, they would NOT have made this kind of an impact on me at 3 months off of benzos. However, the feelings I'm experiencing, for me, at this point, are dramatic.  So I hope that helps provide a clear perspective.

 

Hope this helps someone else.

 

:)Parker

It makes me so happy to read this, Parker. You deserve it. You've fought so hard.

Coop- this is coming for you!

Hi parker,

I read your post with interest. You usually sound as if you are totally healed and doing so well. I had no idea you were going thru something like this.

Your description of Dp/Dr is good. Ive had it non stop for a long time and add into it an unholy deep terror of just about everything around me....wow, its really awful. And now Im actively, consciously depressed.

In all this time (7.5 monthes) Ive only had a couple of very brief periods of time when the fog lifted. Man, it felt good when it happened.

Im not sure about supplements tho, Im glad they helped you. I was taking Vit D gels but ran out. I tried fish oil but felt they revved me up, as B Vits seemed to.

Your post gave me a moment of hope.

I worry a lot about permenent brain damage, despite reading its not likely.

I admire you for always taking a positive, upbeat stance. Keep it up, ok?

eastcoast

I'm adding this about Magnesium...

 

Please read it! Periods of stress... Read!

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/dr-mark-hyman/magnesium-the-most-powerf_b_425499.html

Thanks Parker,

 

I just ordered "doctors best D3, 1000 iu" to start out with,  if you have brain fog at all be careful not to order B3 it's niacin. (Ouch)..

 

I only take magnesium so I'm not over supplementing.

 

Hopenow for healing..

Yes, you are correct. d/r is what makes everything else so hard to deal with. It goes away... all of it. Good to hear you're getting better.

thx parker

i dont get out much. im going to try the vit D

I do agree that vitamin D is vital to our health and wellbeing. Now that people are so conscious with sunscreen many are deficient.  I myself was tested low last spring. This surprised me because I was cycling about 3 times a week.  My level was at 19.

 

Even though vitamin D is good for the body and mind, its important to get a test to know what your levels are.  It is a simple blood test.  Even things that are good for the body can become toxic at a certain level.  Vitamin D toxicity can cause atrial fibrillation as well as some other effects.

 

This is fairly rare and happens when people take large supplements of D.

 

My suggestion is to get a test before self supplementing.

I am so happy for you, Parker. I am at the same timeframe as you, and I know how it feels when something you have dealt with and suffered through for so long just on its own decides its time to go.

i have followed your posts, and know how hard you had it, and I had many of the same symptoms. The DR has left by and large for me as well. I had a great couple weeks of 100% and a recent wave now...a return of crazy fear. Are you all over that stuff now? Sounds like your mental issues are all behind you. I do occasionally get a bit swervy when i am walking fast, but physical is pretty ok.

Glad you are updating us, especially those of us still around from your beginnings..and waiting to be healed as well.

best,

north

Parker! I'm very happy for you....I knew it would break for you! It'll keep getting better....just wait. Even bigger improvements are right around the bend for...and they come fast and more consistently. 

Hi Parker I totally understand your excitement about magnesium.You know i'm starting to wonder if benzos deplete the body of vitamin d because about six months before i started taking Ativan my vitamin d level was very good according to my doctor,but after I started having intrdose withdrawal,my doctor said that my level was back down to 11,and I never understood that because I was still taking vitamin d.someone else here said that vitamin d may hinder the healing process.But from what you are saying I guesss thats not true.My level is very low so I need to start taking it again.

Parker,

Thats a really good description of DR. You hit the nail on the head.

For me, its all of that plus everything just looks weird and strange, flat, almost ugly, sometimes even looks scary.

I sometimes shake my head in amazament that Ive survived this. Eight long monthes with out a single real break is pretty strange and certainly uncomfortable - Im praying for a real darn window to open.

eastcoast

Hey again Parker,I took 500mg of vitamin d3 and 200mg of mag glycinate this morning,and within 30 minutes,I felt so calm,I thought that maybe it was just wishful thinking,but as time passed,I realized that it was real.I just felt a relaxed feeling that I had not felt in a long time.Is this how you felt?

Thanks for posting this encouraging update, Parker!  I am 19 months free today and still struggle daily with DP/DR.  It is my most stubborn and annoying symptom, as well.  I have had very few breaks from this symptom throughout my withdrawal and they were always VERY short-lived.  It helps to read that you are getting some relief. 

 

Take care and keep up the positive posts!

 

Hope 

I do agree that vitamin D is vital to our health and wellbeing. Now that people are so conscious with sunscreen many are deficient.  I myself was tested low last spring. This surprised me because I was cycling about 3 times a week.  My level was at 19.

 

Even though vitamin D is good for the body and mind, its important to get a test to know what your levels are.  It is a simple blood test.  Even things that are good for the body can become toxic at a certain level.  Vitamin D toxicity can cause atrial fibrillation as well as some other effects.

 

This is fairly rare and happens when people take large supplements of D.

 

My suggestion is to get a test before self supplementing.

 

I want to responsibly come back here and say that PianoGirl is correct.  I got too much D after about 3-4 weeks at that level.  Just last week I had dry mouth, diarrhea and felt tired. Vitamin D builds up fast and has a long half life (a month or so I read)-so I got to a good point and then started getting too much at that same dose.

So-I've stopped it for now until I level out.  I'll restart it - but at a much lower dose of about 1000iu-now that I realize is how I handle it.

My mom and dad take the same dose I WAS taking(6000iu) and do just fine- so this must just be how I metabolize it.  But just be careful.  If you get a dry mouth or anything.  Just coming back to share.

 

Parker

seriously need to here this today Parker.  I've been drowning in dp/dr.  and losing alot of hope.

 

question: How long did you have dr for?  Did you have it before your taper?  like in tolerance withdrawal maybe? 

 

The reason I ask is I've had it for years due to tolerance w/d and soooooooooo scared it won't go away

seriously need to here this today Parker.  I've been drowning in dp/dr.  and losing alot of hope.

 

question: How long did you have dr for?  Did you have it before your taper?  like in tolerance withdrawal maybe? 

 

The reason I ask is I've had it for years due to tolerance w/d and soooooooooo scared it won't go away

 

Hey Meth,

I still have it too - but it's light -and it's mostly d/r.  The d/p can still come back slightly in bad waves, but mostly it's derealization-and very light - with it breaking in windows.

 

I didn't have it until I c/t'd- but the first time I got off benzos was a valium taper- and I got it about 3 weeks after my last dose- and it was otherworldly awful.  I reinstated one month out and it all went away - and then I rapid taper c/t'd in detox about 8 months later - and got it again.  Now I'm almost 18 months and it's still here but light. 

I know  this symptom is scary. I HATE it, too.  But I'm finding that if it can lift in windows, and never did until just recently, then the whole direction of this thing has to be toward healing.  So many people say it goes fully away.  I believe that, but I try to remindmyself that I may only be halfway there overall- so as long a road as this has already been- it is ALL a LOT better than it was.  Hard to feel this in waves, but at this point, I have tried to intellectually tell myself this- because there are definitely more windows, and "big waves" are  now rare.

 

:)Parker

thats what worries me though.  I've had ever since a failed c/t atempt about 4 years ago.  never went away.  I'm scared Parker.  I'm sure u can relate. 

thats what worries me though.  I've had ever since a failed c/t atempt about 4 years ago.  never went away.  I'm scared Parker.  I'm sure u can relate.

 

Meth- You're still on benzos, right?  I don't think it's something to worry about since you are still tapering.  D/r and D/p are just a chemical issue.  I reinstated after my first failed taper - but it was a very soon reinstatement (less than a month after I jumped).  Now - it's almost 18 months since my very last benzo - and I'm just now getting glimpses of windows without it.  So  - I wouldn't let artificial worry cloud your mind about this symptom - because it could be that it will take you some time after you're off benzos altogether to begin to put the pieces back together.  I understand why it sucks but I also don't think it's unusual if you're still taking them - and even for a long time after - to have d/r. Many people seem to. 

 

:)P

Metheral, I never had DR or DP until benzos and once tapering off Effexor. It is most definitely related to drugs altering your normal balance, so once the balance is restored, these symptoms will leave. I get really worried too, I still have it at eight months off... Been dealing with it for a year or so. I can't imagine dealing with it for four, but you will recover from it, no question.