My Doc is trying to "Detox" me in 6 days from 15yrs of X.

After nine days of C/T, I finally got my doc to agree to a "taper". He cut my dose of 4 mg/ day to 2mg for two days, then it decrease every 2 days to half that. IN 6 days it will be none. Should I kiss him or send him a bunch of roses?  He's two states away.

  Of course the 1st day, I was grateful for any amount. today the which is day two, I'm getting afraid. Help plss

Your story is the primary reason I want to quit benzos...I fear a forced CT/rapid taper.

 

Now my doc would never do that (he gave me my scrip for liquid V and told me to go as slow as I needed), but someday he might not  be my doc anymore.  Or I could wind up in a hospital with a medical emergency, and not be able to get my benzo.

 

IMO, you need to kiss your doc...GOODBYE!

Hi velmdd,

 

Having c/t'd myself I wouldn't wish it on anyone.  You need to urgently find a doctor who will give you  prescriptions so that you can do a proper taper.  Take a copy of the Ashton manual with you.  And go to A&E/ER so that they can give you an emergency prescription of the benzo to tide you over till you find a doctor.

 

All the best,

 

Celeste

Hi velmdd,

 

Having c/t'd myself I wouldn't wish it on anyone.  You need to urgently find a doctor who will give you  prescriptions so that you can do a proper taper.  Take a copy of the Ashton manual with you.  And go to A&E/ER so that they can give you an emergency prescription of the benzo to tide you over till you find a doctor.

 

All the best,

 

Celeste

 

@builder I wish you success. Really this quick taper is very frustrating to say the least. At half a dose, I have some relief, but tommorow I start a 1/4 of the original dose and don't think it's going to work.

 

@Celeste, my doc and two others tell me the Aston Manual is not scientific or medical. (That's the nicest comment I got) I'm now googling to look for compassion doctors. Not going well.

  My ER doesn't give out scripts for X, they give you a dose of X when you first come in if you're in medical crisis- Last time I went after a 3 week c/t, they gave me .25, after I was dehydrated, bp was 118/25 etc). Kept me overnight and gave me a script for Prozac.

Hello:

 

Your doctor doesn't care about you at all. THIS IS SO VERY DANGEROUS!!!!! Seizures  & Heart Attacks are your concern right now!! Go to a new dr.!

 

I myself am doing the liquid titration with whole milk as the suspension. My benzo Clorazepate 15mg is equal to .5mg of Xanax. I have a 100ml graduated cylinder, mortar & pestal, pipettes, plastic stirring spoon and two cups. I have been on Xanax, Klonopin and now Tranxene (Clorazepate) for 25+ years.

 

Watching the video on Benzo Titration has really given me freedom from withdrawal sx's. Going from 4mg to 2mg of Xanax is like a death sentence if you ask me. Dr's know how to put you on but 99% have no clue what they do to us or how to take us off of them.

 

I have been reducing my drug my .1ml every day for 6 days and holding at that level for 3-4 days which gives my body time to catch up with the reduction rate. I have had no symptoms. So, I go from 100ml to .99ml to .98ml. to 97ml to .96ml to .95ml to .94ml and holding at .94ml and hold at .94ml for 3-4 days. Then I go down another 6% as previously explained and do another 3-4 day hold etc. Quality life ~ not Quantity reduction is what your focus needs to be.

 

You can also purchase a millgram counter over eBay if that is more suitable for you, but I find I'm not great in math and titration doesn't require the math smarts.

 

You have every reason to be concerned. I had to find a new doctor because my dr. wanted to do exactly to me what your doctor did to you.....I RAN AS FAST AS I COULD...to an understanding physician who would monitor me on every corner if need be.

 

Please let me know how you fair. Stand strong....you're the one whose paying the doctor's bill. He works for you! Be pro~active and research as much info as you can and then take it to your dr. and shove it in his face.

 

Take Care!!!

 

FTBM

velmdd

 

I don't know if you have insurance or not, but the way I found my current doctor was to go to the website for my insurance and on it there was a list of doctors for "Medication Management".  These are usually psychiatrists but can be GP's or other.  I called everyone on the list with three questions 1.  Are you at all familiar at all with benzodiazepine w/d 2.  Are you aware that w/d can take a long time and 3.  Would you be willing to oversee a slow taper that will probably need to be adjusted over time?

 

Of the whole group, there were about 2 that answered those questions in a way that met my comfort level.  Once they answered those then I asked about c/o to another benzo (ativan to valium) and other more detailed questions.

 

This is not to say the doctor I have hasn't tried to get me on other psych meds, which I've refused.  I don't see her for any talk therapy or analysis, I depend on her solely just to get my meds.  Any real support or guidance I get is from sources like this site.

 

But at least this might give you an idea of how to find a doctor if yours continues to be a boobhead.

 

WWWI

Hi!

 

You can also check out and find doctors in your area by going to www.healthgrades.com. Type in your zip code and it will bring up all doctors in your area from within a couple of miles to 100 miles from where you live. Click on what type of insurance you have (if any). The type of doctor you are looking for. It will give you information such as where the doctors graduated from, if they are board certified, if they have any sanctions, which insurances they accept, hospital affiliation(s), background, how patients have rated their level of trust, if dr. listen to them, if dr. explains conditions/illnesses in a way that patient's understand, and if their dr's spend time with them.....it's based on a survey where patient's have visited a particular dr. and if they would recommend that doctor. It provide the address and phone number so you can make appts. This is how I found a very, very understanding doctor toward my benzo use.

 

You simply click on what kind of dr. you are looking for, (i.e. general practioner, urologist, pyschiatrists, endocrinologists, pediatricians, etc..).

 

Go armed with information that you can leave with the doctor....let him/her know that you are your best advocate and just need some info from them as to whether they can support and monitor your progress. Never let a doctor substitute one benzo for another, increase your benzo, or give an anti~depressant which contains a benzo properties.

 

Remember, treatment with medication is all they know (and that knowledge of any drug, come from pharmaceuticals only)! Be determined! YOU CAN DO THIS.

 

In prayer for you....FTBM

GLUTAMATE  EXCITOTOXINS!!!

Fast is very BAD.  You can have a bad reaction from too much GLUTAMATE.  It can give you tinnitus for LIFE by flooding the inner ear with copious levels of glutamate and this distress the inner ear for good in some cases and really cause a long delay in healing!!!  GO SLOW.  FIND A NEW DOCTOR FAST!!!!

 

Also did the dr gave you calcium channel blockers to protect your brain from glutamatergic storm??

 

READ THESE

 

Protecting the brain from glutamatergic storm

 

Magnesium has been discovered to help impede glutamate from overloading glutamate receptors. People with low magnesium content are the most prone to acute excitotoxicity that can cause a sudden severe digestive distress, headache, or even heart attack. Magnesium is vital to 300 biochemical functions within the body. So it is important for overall health in addition to blocking glutamate sensors or channels from glutamate excitotoxin overload. Magnesium content is high in green, leafy vegetables. It is also available in whole grains and many beans and nuts.

 

Omega 3 fatty acids also block glutamate excitotoxins while repairing cellular damage. Fish oils seem to be the best source of Omega 3 for this specific purpose, according to Dr. Russel Blaylock, author of Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills, and Health and Nutrition Secrets That Can Save Your Life.

 

Selenium is another protector of glutamate receptors from excitotoxin invasion. It is available as a supplement. Small doses are recommended. Brazil nuts are considered a high source of selenium. Two or three Brazil nuts a day is considered sufficient for optimum selenium intake.

 

Red Clover was recommended by Barbara L. Minton in her September 22, 2008 Natural News article Red Clover Blocks Neurological Damage From MSG. It is basically an herb that is inexpensive and available as leaves for tea, in tinctures, liquid extracts, and capsules. According to Barbara Minton's article, lab tests demonstrated a significant decline in brain cell neuron damage when red clover's essential protective ingredient was added.

 

Zinc also helps obstruct the glutamate receptor channels from excessive excitotoxin absorption. Many in our society today are zinc deficient. A zinc taste test can be done to determine if one has sufficient zinc stored in his or her body. A solution of zinc sulfate is tasted for the test. If an immediate bad taste ensues, that usually indicates a sufficient zinc level in the body.

 

To enhance and ensure detoxification, Dr. Blaylock recommends milk thistle to help the liver eliminate all toxins. Curcumin is the essential ingredient of turmeric. It enhances bile flow as well as DNA repair enzymes. He also recommends taurine, an amino acid that contains sulfur to aid the liver, as well as vitamins B1 and B6 and vitamins C and E.

 

Vitamins C & E: The most important antioxidants are alpha-tocopherol or vitamin E, and ascorbic acid, also known as vitamin C. The brain normally contains one of the highest concentrations of vitamin C in the body. The advantages of these antioxidants are that they can easily enter the blood brain barrier and reach the brain cells where they are needed most. The brain is very dependent on vitamin E & C for its protection. Did you know that your brain contains most of your bodies vitamin C content, go figure?

 

 

READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Faster taper BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity

 

Excitotoxicity in the EARS http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/detalhe_artigo.asp?id=294

 

Do this smart.

 

List of benzo-wise doctors

http://www.benzodocs.com/

 

Not the longest list.  If there is a doc listed in your state but not your city, you could also call them and ask if they have a benzo-wise referral in your city.

 

 

Here's an article about looking for a doc to support benzo tapering

http://lifelieswaiting.wordpress.com/2010/12/19/how-to-get-a-doctor-to-help-you-taper-off-of-benzodiazepines/

 

Article also cites 2 references that support Ashton-like schedule.

One of these has a bad link in the article.

The Maine Benzodiazapine Study Group is really here: http://www.benzos.une.edu/

Note that Heather Ashton is a member of the steering committee.

So, perhaps this is a partial answer to the question "where the **** is the rest of the medical community".  Glad to see it.

 

This page looks like interesting reading http://www.benzos.une.edu/articles.htm

Thank everyone for the replies and support. On day 4 at I think one 1/4, .5 twice a day coming from 4mg originally. No description can do justice to the way my body is reacting.

 

@freetobeme You're so right. I think the only way I'm going to get treated is secondarily from a primary stroke or seizure. And that is ridiculous. I have aides that check on me three times a week. This just doesn't make any sense, needless suffering and the potential for God knows what. .

 

@WiseWomanWithIssues , @Birdman, @purple- Thank you for all your referrals. Where I live since Sept, I've drained my resources neglecting bills trying to pay for evals with no success. I'm going to have to look into some of those, so far I havent thought of neglecting rent, but its so bad. And I have the pre-existing seizure disorder on top of it. It's going to have to be like a vacay.

I thank you all for your support and hope.

Hi,

 

If you go into a benzo crash all the other financial problems just get worse. Sometimes people get help by calling an ambulance, when you go into the back door of a hospital all sorts of new possibilities open up, especially if you have a 'seizure' from lack of Xanax. The government may help you then.

Hi,

 

If you go into a benzo crash all the other financial problems just get worse. Sometimes people get help by calling an ambulance, when you go into the back door of a hospital all sorts of new possibilities open up, especially if you have a 'seizure' from lack of Xanax. The government may help you then.

 

Been there, done it. Had seizures in ambulance and in ER. Kept over night in medical, got X .25mg. the dehydration baggie thing, then kept in psych again, Prozac and observation. No seizure next day, but got kicked out for refusing Seroquel, which I tried for several weeks before and had adverse reaction to. Almost got committed to state hospital, which is a bad thing, been there before.

  But all in all I might have to go again anyway. If someone finds me out like they did before. Or I might given and just go, even though I know the state hospital system here. Dying there is just as likely, trust me. I've seen it with my own eyes. TY for responding. I don't mean to sound contrary at all. in the throes and really trying to not say screw it all and take the rest of the meds. (a whole .5 grams)

So sorry. 

I thought the ER suggestion sounded good but now see it is totally limited.

Would ER in a neighboring town be better?

Any sort of free clinic?

 

Totally crazy.

I want to go to the hospital and picket outside with signs.

 

Is there anything that would help?

There is a detox clinic in Florida (listed in the benzo wise doctor list) that uses Ashton schedule.  Would it help if they tell the ER that slow taper is necessary?

 

 

Not a neighboring town, but the doctor that moved, that put me on the 6 day, maybe!!!  OHHH MY God do you really think they would do that? I'm debating going to see him next week. He's not a bad guy, just doesn't seem to know what he is doing He's usually pretty open about new methods and if it came from a medical place, probably so!!!

  I don't know who he consulted with the first time I brought it up, but I'm sure it was another doc, who didn't even read it.  Do you think they'd actually be willing?? OMG, frig, it's alread after biz hours here, but I can't wait to try this on Monday. That's a beautiful suggestion  :-* :-*

  HOw are you doing. You all! I forget to ask, because this anxiety makes me so self centered, like I can't think about anyone else. Thank you for that so much!!!!!

I think the taper plan the Dr. has you on is the typical text-book taper for someone who has been on benzo's for about TWO WEEKS,,, not for 15 years!!!

This is a good post, with a lot of good info on how to find docs.  Think there should be a thread for this, "How to Find Docs"

Hi mairin,

 

Yes dr. shopping is so important. You CAN'T afford to get shorted on a taper plan!!!  After being rejected by 6 Doctors I finally got smart.

I went into a pharmacy and asked to see the pharmacist.  A asked him straight out.  I need to find a liberal dr. to write me a prescription for Ativan, can you PLEASE tell me who writes a lot of prescriptions for this drug please!

 

"one moment please"  He went to his computer, punched in ATIVAN and wrote down three names for me.  "HERE YOU GO" he said with a smile.  The first dr. asked me "WHAT DO YOU NEED"  I told him 10 mg Ativan just to make sure I got enough.  "OK here's the prescription. Do you need any other drugs??. OK see me in three months"  I got three refills at 10 mg per day.  I will save the rest for when the big asteroid hits the earth and the pharmacies will be close for 6 months

 

Bird

Hi mairin,

 

Yes dr. shopping is so important. You CAN'T afford to get shorted on a taper plan!!!  After being rejected by 6 Doctors I finally got smart.

I went into a pharmacy and asked to see the pharmacist.  A asked him straight out.  I need to find a liberal dr. to write me a prescription for Ativan, can you PLEASE tell me who writes a lot of prescriptions for this drug please!

 

"one moment please"  He went to his computer, punched in ATIVAN and wrote down three names for me.  "HERE YOU GO" he said with a smile.  The first dr. asked me "WHAT DO YOU NEED"  I told him 10 mg Ativan just to make sure I got enough.  "OK here's the prescription. Do you need any other drugs??. OK see me in three months"  I got three refills at 10 mg per day.  I will save the rest for when the big asteroid hits the earth and the pharmacies will be close for 6 months

 

Bird

 

I agree.  Your pharmacist should be the best source for finding a doc who is "benzo-wise"

It should also be possible to find some articles or recommendations other than Ashton.  I have no idea whether this has been done and someone can just post it?

 

Also, calling around can sometimes work.  Like, if you call every doctor on the benzo wise doc list you may find one or two who would consider talking to your doctor?  I have no real idea of that's real or not, but it is something one could try.  I'd start with the detox clinic.  Even just what they say on their website about that they use Ashton might be a starting point.  And maybe they have a brochure that talks about taper rates, or some kind of written thing they could send you.  They could be willing to talk to your doctor, or might not be...... It all depends.  But if you think that would help, it is worth asking them.

 

I'm trying to remember what Wikipedia says about tapering.  For sure it says that tapering is NECESSARY and cold turkey is dangerous, but it may not mention the slow rate needed at all.

 

Anyway, the point this that this is not totally esoteric information and there could be more things to present to your doc.

 

Since you think something or someone is the source of his current fast detox method, that may or may not be worth asking him about (kinda depends on your relationship to him?)

The good side of this is that maybe he is open to being influenced by information.

The detox clinic is Florida:

 

Sorry for the length of Ths quotation, but it is GOOD:

 

http://www.newbeginningsdetox.com/benzocessationprogram.php

 

THE WITHDRAWAL

 

Dosage tapering. There is absolutely no doubt that anyone withdrawing from long-term benzodiazepines must reduce the dosage slowly. Abrupt or over-rapid withdrawal, especially from high dosage, can give rise to severe symptoms (convulsions, psychotic reactions, acute anxiety states) and may increase the risk of protracted withdrawal symptoms). Slow withdrawal means tapering dosage gradually, usually over a period of some months.

 

The aim is to obtain a smooth, steady and slow decline in blood and tissue concentrations of benzodiazepines so that the natural systems in the brain can recover their normal state. Long-term benzodiazepines take over many of the functions of the body's natural tranquilizer system, mediated by the neurotransmitter GABA. As a result, GABA receptors in the brain reduce in numbers and GABA function decreases. Sudden withdrawal from benzodiazepines leaves the brain in a state of GABA-under activity, resulting in hyper-excitability of the nervous system. This hyper-excitability is the root cause of most of the withdrawal symptoms.  However, a sufficiently slow, and smooth, departure of benzodiazepines from the body permits the natural systems to regain control of the functions which have been damped down by their presence.

 

There is scientific evidence that reinstatement of brain function takes a long time. Recovery after long-term benzodiazepine use is not unlike the gradual recuperation of the body after a major surgical operation. Healing, of body or mind, is a slow process.  At New Beginnings we utilize the Heather Ashton Method.  This tried and true method has worked around the world for thousands of people just like you that desire to move on with their life without benzodiazepines.

 

The precise rate of withdrawal depends on many factors including the dose and type of benzodiazepine used, duration of use, personality, lifestyle, previous experience, specific vulnerabilities, and the (perhaps genetically determined) speed of your recovery systems.  We will set up a schedule at the startof your detox, but you must be in control and must proceed at the pace that is comfortable for you.  You may need to resist attempts from outsiders to persuade you into a rapid withdrawal.  Tell us if you feel that we are moving too fast (or too slow).

 

The classic six weeks withdrawal period adopted by many clinics and MD’s is much too fast for many long-term users.  Actually, the rate of withdrawal, as long as it is slow enough, is not critical. THINK HOW LONG IT TOOK YOU TO GET TO WHERE YOU ARE NOW!

 

It is sometimes claimed that very slow withdrawal from benzodiazepines "merely prolongs the agony" and it is better to get it over with as quickly as possible. However, the experience of most patients is that slow withdrawal is greatly preferable, especially when the subject dictates the pace.  

 

Indeed, most of our patients find that there is little or no "agony" involved.  In fact many patients are amazed at how uneventful things can be along the way.  The skill in managing your program will be in the careful use of support medications and tweaking dosing every step of the way.  Nevertheless there is no magic rate of withdrawal and each person must find the pace that suits him best. People who have been on low doses of benzodiazepine for a relatively short time (less than a year) can usually withdraw somewhat faster.  

 

Those who have been on high doses of potent benzodiazepines such as Xanax and Klonopin will need more time. However, it is important in withdrawal always to go forwards. If you reach a difficult point, you can stop there for an additional week if necessary, but you should try to avoid going backwards and increasing your dosage again. Avoid the use of "escape pills" (an extra dose of benzodiazepines) in particularly stressful situations. This is probably not a good idea as it interrupts the smooth decline in benzodiazepine concentrations and also disrupts the process of learning to cope without drugs which is an essential part of the adaptation to withdrawal. If the withdrawal is slow enough, "escape pills" are not be necessary.

 

We hope that we may assist in this process of benzodiazepine cessation - We wish you the best on your journey!

 

 

 

 

 

i just thought I would throw this out there for you. Naturpath MD's are very into getting ppl off meds if they are not good for you. I found one at my local herb store, they had a list of Naturpath MD's at the store. I was unsure after seeing so many doctors that were such asses. So I called the doc office and explained that I wanted to find out if the doctor knew what benzodiazapins were and was willing to do a taper w/ me to get me off of them. They had me talk to his nurse and I explained what I wanted to do. You could explain the cross over method and even offer to email the link to the ashton method and see it they are willing to work with you. Just explain you don't want to waste your money if the doctor isn't willing to work w/ you on a slow crossover taper. It took me 6 months to slowly taper off my clonazapam and frankly I should have gone to liquid titration at the end not just jump off. I am now finally getting off my ambien I'm on Day 3 of my direct taper. I hope this gives u a idea on finding a doctor. The cold turkey in 6 days is crazy I was told by a neurologist that can cause strokes, seizures and even death. Please be careful.

 

Tanya

The cold turkey in 6 days is crazy I was told by a neurologist that can cause strokes, seizures and even death. Please be careful.

 

Tanya

 

I agree but also the unchecked GLUTAMATE can do a lot of damage and cause prolonged w/d - Glutamate is GABA's evil twin and without benzo's to protect the receptor caps the glutamate can do a lot of damage to them.  GO SLOW! LET THE BODY ADJUST SLOWLY! I speed tapered and I just had to reinstate in the end while I did make good progress. The slow way is the right way.

Thank you everyone, for all the tips and links and warnings. Today was so bad, I can't even repeat what happened including seizures. I have sent out the links and asking for the doc to pls consult with the Florida office. Can't even eat, yet remain the bathroom. Like a low grade childbirth pains that don't stop.

  Everything you all are saying is coming to pass, sorry I'm too weak to individually respond, but I am taking heed. I have had a seizure, but since I have pre-existing seizure disorder I'm waiting to Monday to get on with the Florida clinic and try to educate the "6day" detox on Ashton.

  Every post helps Thak you all. I hope you all are feelling as best you can. Your support is amazing

 

dear velmdd

 

I'm so sorry you're in sure a difficult condition.

Please do not worry in the least about replying to people's individual comments. No need to do so. The point is just to try to help you even if the only help we can manage is small.

 

I am thinking of you today.

I am sure you are still in a world of hurt, and I'm sorry.

Please write if you feel like it.  Just to say what you are thinking or feeling.

 

Tomorrow is Monday, so wishing you luck with contacting your doctor.

I know you said you have already sent out info to the doctor.

I hope you will be able to talk to the doctor and/or office staff early tomorrow to see that they received this info and to tell them how urgent this situation is.