Author Topic: Doctor refused substitution method. Is dry cutting Klonopin @ .25mg too much?  (Read 1169 times)

[Buddie]

Hello,
Since my doctor adamantly refused to try the substitution method from Klonopin to Valium, I'm dry cutting my dosages in .25mg increments. He said that switching to Valium from Klonopin is very bad since Valium's half life is so long that dosages begin to "double up in your body" if you switch to the equivalent amount of Valium and take it every day following the schedule recommended by Professor Ashton. I printed and brought Dr. Ashton's recommended substitution schedule with me to my doctor appointment, but he wasn't impressed. He tried to discount the validity of the information from the manual I brought with me without even researching it. Very frustrating to put it mildly.   

Each time I drop my Klonopin dose by .25mg I experience a spike in my blood pressure, dizziness, insomnia, and pressure in my temples and chest. This usually starts to get better within 5 days after each dosage drop. I have enough .5mg tablets now and plenty of 1mg tablets as well to complete the dry cut taper. My doctor said that "no patient can notice a decrease of .5mg of Klonopin and if they think they do it's in their own head". This irritated me very much since I know my body and definitely become symptomatic with just a .25 mg dosage drop. I initially thought about doing the liquid titration method until I was able to get some .5mg tablets from my doctor at my last (and hopefully final) office visit regarding this.

I've been taking Klonopin for 24 years. During that time my dosage was gradually increased to 4mg per day to control symptoms that were beginning to breakthrough (i.e. severe chest pains, panic attacks, anxiety, etc.)

After several months of taking 4mg I went down to 3mg per day which was working well until my doctor suddenly decided to require frequent office visits just to keep getting refills.

My question is has anyone had good success getting totally off of Konopin by dry cutting their dosage @ .25mg intervals after taking it a very long time and at high dosages as I have? I'm decreasing my dosage approximately every 3 to 5 weeks.

Thanks in advance everyone!  :)
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[Buddie]

Hi  Time
 I did dry cut Clonazepam .No other drugs .
12 years 1-2 mg Clon , taper 9 months .
 I did cut every 3 weeks .
If you ok with month , is great . Just please go slow . Dont; rush benzo .
They try to put me on Valium  . Was absolutelly hell . They said take 2 mg V and .25 Clon together  evening .
I was all numb , hell .  After that I dont' listen eny DR??  and taper on my own . Listen to your body . :smitten: :smitten: [...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

You might be ok dropping by .25mg each cut for a couple of more cuts but I definitely wouldn't recommend dropping that much once you get down to the final milligram since you're chances of developing severe withdrawal symptoms will be really high. After all, the general Ashton Taper schedule would have you dropping by the equivalent of 1mg Valium every two weeks once you get down to the equivalent of 15mg of Valium (=.75 mg clonazepam). At the very least, I'd recommend cutting by a quarter of a pill (.125mg) or even half of a quarter pill if you don't want to get slammed by unbearable withdrawal symptoms. .25mg = 5mg Valium and that's way too much for a single cut at the lower end of a taper.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

You might be ok dropping by .25mg each cut for a couple of more cuts but I definitely wouldn't recommend dropping that much once you get down to the final milligram since you're chances of developing severe withdrawal symptoms will be really high. After all, the general Ashton Taper schedule would have you dropping by the equivalent of 1mg Valium every two weeks once you get down to the equivalent of 15mg of Valium (=.75 mg clonazepam). At the very least, I'd recommend cutting by a quarter of a pill (.125mg) or even half of a quarter pill if you don't want to get slammed by unbearable withdrawal symptoms. .25mg = 5mg Valium and that's way too much for a single cut at the lower end of a taper.

Thank you both very much for your input! [...] your experience tapering down sure doesn't sound like too much for me to look forward to, especially when I get down to dividing up the Klonopin @ 1mg or less per day. Today is the first day I've tapered down from 1.75mg to 1.5mg and I'm definitely not feeling well (.5mg x 3 doses per day).  I'm taking aspirin as a precaution to help keep my blood a little thinner while my blood pressure is high and I'm feeling the host of lousy symptoms I mentioned in my first post.

I'll definitely try cutting my .5mg tablets in fourths when I get down to dosages lower than 1mg per day. Not sure how to cut them any smaller than fourths without them just crumbling to powder. If I start having lots of problems I guess I could go through the daily hassle of trying a liquid titration schedule, but I'm hoping to avoid that if possible.

Thanks again!
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[Buddie]

Time -

Have you tried a pill cutter (you can buy them at pretty much any pharmacy)? They are much easier to use and more precise than a kitchen implement. I am able to cut my .5mg Klonopin pills into 1/8's (0.0625mg) pretty easily with one.
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[Buddie]

Safe your sanity and health and find a new doctor! Some physicians have bigger egos than brains.   :tickedoff: You ARE on the right track!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Time -
Have you tried a pill cutter (you can buy them at pretty much any pharmacy)? They are much easier to use and more precise than a kitchen implement. I am able to cut my .5mg Klonopin pills into 1/8's (0.0625mg) pretty easily with one.

Yes, I have two pill cutters. One is an inexpensive all plastic cutter with built in razor blade. The other is the "Deluxe pill cutter" with a rubber pill grip. Since my generic Klonopin (Clonazepam) pills are very "crumbly", every time I make a cut there is always some of the pill that crumbles to powder or tiny portions fracture off.  Are you using generic Klonopin pills or the more expensive brand name? I know that the generics can contain different inactive ingredients which affect their texture and how they cut. I've had several different brands of generics and each one is a different color and some pills are softer or harder than others.  Thanks!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Safe your sanity and health and find a new doctor! Some physicians have bigger egos than brains.   :tickedoff: You ARE on the right track!

Yes "[...]", I was very surprised by my doctor's reaction. He's usually super sharp and understanding. He really irritated me this last time though, which makes me even more motivated to be free from Klonopin and not have to pay for an office visit every 90 days just to get a refill (new policy at his medical group). 
Yes, many doctors have what I refer to as the "Mini-God"complex with egos that can be blinding at times unfortunately. He said that "double blind" studies have been done and that it was impossible for anyone to physically notice a drop of .5mg of Clonazepam to which I responded that "I definitely experience physical symptoms with just a .25mg decrease". Of course he didn't believe me. I guess he'd have to take this stuff for as many years as we have then go off of it cold turkey. That would really wake him up to the truth! Thanks much for your reply!
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]


Yes, I have two pill cutters. One is an inexpensive all plastic cutter with built in razor blade. The other is the "Deluxe pill cutter" with a rubber pill grip. Since my generic Klonopin (Clonazepam) pills are very "crumbly", every time I make a cut there is always some of the pill that crumbles to powder or tiny portions fracture off.  Are you using generic Klonopin pills or the more expensive brand name? I know that the generics can contain different inactive ingredients which affect their texture and how they cut. I've had several different brands of generics and each one is a different color and some pills are softer or harder than others.  Thanks!

Hm, I believe I have the generic 0.5mg pills (yellow with TEVA label, scored across the diameter on the other side). Sometimes I'll get a bad/crumbly cut but in that case I can usually divide up the crumbs appropriately. I'm sorry you're having trouble with those crumbly generics, not sure why but I guess some have a different consistency than others.
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[Buddie]

[...]
I would definitly find a new doctor. I did the my taper w/ Diazapam and am thankful I did. I know you like your doc but if he wont listen to you, or believe you I say boot him. I would see if you can find a naturpath MD. They are more up to getting off things like benzos and using non persciptions if possible. Alot of the time if you find a few health food stores or herbs stores they may have a list of MD's that also work with herbs and supplements. I hope this may help.

Tanya
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