Please help with a taper plan

-I am in my mid fifties -and took valium 10mgs for 10years prior to a dr crossing me to ativan.

-I was on 3.5-6mgs mgs ativan for over 10yrs now and I did the ashton cross 3 yrs ago.

-I made the cross and then got very depresed.at 20mgs v-stopped taper hospitalized,lost savings and almost my mind.

-at the time of cross i was up to 6mgs ativan-I do not want to ever get there again

-was also on lyrica at that time -NOW stopped lyrica nov2012-(it nearly killed me with pancreatitis )

-had to return to ativan-To work as I am alone.

-returned to 3.5 ativan and 5 mgs valiumPM  to stabalize

-I cannot find a benzowise dr.and am now suffering from  tolerance and interdose wd at night and morning,its horrible.

-had to up dose to avoid morning vomiting and hyperventilating(dont want to go up but rather down on the benzo)

-tried evening out ativan dose and still tolerance w/d

-now on 4mgs ativan and 5mg valium(valium taken in the PM)

-I have to cross and reduce the dose.

-I have been ill and my gp doesnt think its time to do this.But I know I must.

- I cannot go on like this.even taking ativan dose in the day,split up doesnt help so it must be tolerance?

-I need to slowly reduce my benzos and get off, but no benzowise dr,can see my GP but he says he can only observe me.

-My brain doesnt seem to work very well,but i am trying hard to keep focused to get off of these.

-Have the ashton schedule for 3 mgs ativan -val cross,but not for 4mgs ativan

-I would be grateful for any advice .

-and my dr suggested clonazepam,but I dont see it as an option

-I have sleep apnea but I  use a machine so it is being treated.I dont use any other meds EVER.

-I admit i am scared and alone  but we all are I know-and no one can live like this.

-I Believe I can do this but need some guidance as to how.

Thank you so much.

Katy

Hi Katy

 

I am sorry your having problems finding a benzowise GP, you might find a doctor on this list, hopefully near to were you are. http://benzodocs.com/

 

Hang in there,you will get there eventually i am sure. It might help if you copy some relevant pages from the ashton manual, here is a link: Professor Ashtons Manual show your present doctor, tell him/her you want help with crossing over to Valium. You will get a lot of support with your taper here Katy . 

 

Keep us updated

 

Magrita

Thank you Magrita ,

no benzo wise dr in my province,and have taken ashton method to dr,but will try agian.

K

I'm having trouble stabalizing the dose of ativan,can anyone help?

Hi, Katy.  I was also having both tolerance and interpose withdrawal when I decided I had to get off of Ativan/lorazepam.  It is probably the hardest way to start tapering but I don't know any other way. 

 

Are you saying you plan to crossover to Valium again before tapering and your doctor is willing to prescribe both drugs concurrently?  If so, that should at least help with the interdose w/d. 

 

If you've read the Ashton Manual, you probably already know she considers the Valium equivalency for 4 mg Ativan to be 40 mg.  if you are taking your 4mg spread out as 1mg 4x/day, for example, you could substitute 5mg Valium for .5mg Ativan, say from you latest evening dose, wait a few weeks and make another substitution.  You continue that way until you are on only 40mg Valium. 

 

You sound like you could benefit from developing some anxiety-reducing techniques.  There's a lot you can do on your own, of course, but I think it might help if you spent some time with a counselor/therapist who specializes in treating anxiety, just to get a little support and encouragement in the real world.    I can tell you really want control of your life back and making that commitment to do it "no matter what!" Will see you through the rough times. 

yes I am planning to crossover and have a Dr willing to prescribe both.

Thank you for the guidance and yes I will seek out a therapist for anxiety techniques.

The dr doesnt really know how to but said he could cheer me on to withdrawing,whatever that means.

I value your support and will post agian when I begin the crossover and throughout it.

You are much appreciated.

Katy

a quick question ,does one have to wait a few weeks for substitution or can the crossover be done more quickly?

and would it be risky?a crossover in say 4 weeks?

thanks

katy

This is just my opinion but given your troubled history with benzos, I think it would be a mistake to drop all the Ativan too soon after starting on the Valium.  The purpose of crossing over is to eliminate interdose withdrawal and make for a smoother taper but I think you could jeopardize that by going too fast.  All that being said, you might find that you don't need to wait the full 2 weeks between substitutions.  I think in general it's better to start out slower than necessary rather than chance getting too far ahead, if that makes sense. 

Update.yes it makes sense.I saw my pshyciatrist today and I think i need a new dr or just see my GP ,he said he spoke with an addiction Dr who says he has never seen anyone get off benzos and has never seen ashton method suceed.So there isnt any hope for me is what he basically said.

I dont want to believe this.

he further confused me by wanting me to cross to clonazepam,when I asked how he said he didnt know."Just add in some and then you will know when you dont need ativan anymore."

I just broke down and cried.

I have lost 29lbs in 30days,I am so sick.

And scared.And depressed.

Its hard to get a new dr here,and I have my GP but I am really struggling.

I hyperventalite in the mornings,for a long time,and am just scared of everything.I have severe sleep apnea so sleep is a problem.

I am all over the place with ativan and feel like i have no direction.

I see my GP tomorrow,but at one point he suggested crossing to clonazepam as well.

know you cant advise but I cant believe its not possible to get off benzos.I know its not true and I just cant give up.

have already had 5 mgs valium along with the ativan for several months now.

I just wanted to give an update ,Beeper you got off after 20yrs ,am I too old?

Thanks

Katy

Update.yes it makes sense.I saw my pshyciatrist today and I think i need a new dr or just see my GP ,he said he spoke with an addiction Dr who says he has never seen anyone get off benzos and has never seen ashton method suceed.So there isnt any hope for me is what he basically said.

I dont want to believe this.

he further confused me by wanting me to cross to clonazepam,when I asked how he said he didnt know."Just add in some and then you will know when you dont need ativan anymore."

I just broke down and cried.

I have lost 29lbs in 30days,I am so sick.

And scared.And depressed.

Its hard to get a new dr here,and I have my GP but I am really struggling.

I hyperventalite in the mornings,for a long time,and am just scared of everything.I have severe sleep apnea so sleep is a problem.

I am all over the place with ativan and feel like i have no direction.

I see my GP tomorrow,but at one point he suggested crossing to clonazepam as well.

know you cant advise but I cant believe its not possible to get off benzos.I know its not true and I just cant give up.

have already had 5 mgs valium along with the ativan for several months now.

I just wanted to give an update ,Beeper you got off after 20yrs ,am I too old?

Thanks

Katy

 

Hi Katy,

 

Wanted to check on things with you.  Checked your posts and read the above.

No, you are not too old to get off this.

Beeper gave you very good advise, the ratio in c/o that you did was not correct.

I know Beeper will chime in when she is online.

Though, personally c/o to C.. I cannot see why.

The Ashton Manual correctly states c/o to valium

Though, this must be done in a correct ratio.

 

Katy. Of course you would break down and cry, that's what everyone does through this

Being scared, depressed and hyperventaling... these all comes from the reactions of these drugs.

I know you are struggling just to get to a right place.

 

Katy, don't worry about the wgt loss.. I went down to 98 lbs.. my husband lost over 50 lbs.

I gained it all back, and my husband is now gaining it back.  That all comes about

 

No, the addication doc was not correct.  He was totally incorrect in what he said.

I'm not sure what dose you are on with Ativan then Valium.

 

Katy... you need direction and I know that.

So can your pdoc help find you a new doc, maybe someone who has understanding about this.

 

Katy, once you can get stable on either Ativan or Valium, or both

and then begin a c/o to the "proper" = and then begin the taper

it will go ok.

 

Pattylu

thank you Patty ,I appreciate your support so much.

I was the one who was crossed over from 4mgs ativan to 3mgs clonazepam and gabapentin 200 was added in.This while in hospital and now having a very bad time of it.

I will change my profile but am having trouble typing just this.

Is it possible to go back to ativan as my body is not stabalizing.

there is no dr following me as my pdoc is not back until tues.he is the one who said he talked to addictions dr and getting off benzos has not been seen.

I cannot take the antidepressant as they are so agitating,and my family dr wants me to stay on this dose of clonazepam.I can see the pdoc but he will not cross me to valium.

It feels I am alone in this,I may have had a tough time with ativan but I am not functioning on the clonazepam.very depressed very slow.Tried cutting dose was worse.

Is there a way to go back to ativan?

thank you

Katy

I am afraid to go back to hospital becasue of what happened.

to add to post- I lost 30lbs since jan 1- I stopped gabapentin then and I think things went haywire.

I know Beeper you said it was like your lost yrs.

I may be alble to  get a counsellor but not one who knows about these drugs.-tried but no support  from anyone else,I am having a hard time going into grocery store,hard time going anywhere.

Iam trying I really am but this is beyond anything i have experienced.

the few people I know keep saying its in my head,I am screwed up not the drugs.

anything you have to say would be helpful.

Katy

It is possible to crossover to any other benzo but I wouldn't recommend a switch back to Ativan.  It's much shorter-acting than klonopin so harder to taper off of.  I know you desperately want to find as medication change that will help you feel better NOW but I doubt if there is such a thing and then there's the possibility that such a change might make you feel worse (hard to imagine, I know).  BTW, my counselor knew nothing about benzo withdrawal but she could still support me with help dealing with anxiety, for instance.  And while I could tell she thought I shouldn't take so long to taper or that I was still having w/d symptoms after getting off, she never actually said so and I decided that was good enough.

 

At one time, I could barely leave my house to get the mail.  I read about "exporsure therapy" and tried it for myself and baby stepped my way back to going out in public.  There are a number of resources on the Internet about it if you are interested.  Here's one I found (I'm not recommending the book because I've never read it but he has a lot of good stuff on his website):

 

http://www.anxietycoach.com/exposuretherapy.html

thank you Beeper,I will look into the therapy.

I am very itchy everywhere,feel like I am going mad.

and no sleep ,clonazepam may not be metabolized I dont know,The hospital said to my GP my liver enzymes were high to check them,he didnt.

why would ativan make me feel worse?

Just curious.

Horror detox story In trouble,now can you advise?

-my sisters corralled me into a hospital detox

-I lasted 4 days

-sisters disowned me when I didnt succeed.

-before detox I stabalized on 3mgs clon but very depressed and some movement retardation

-the dr gave me ativan 5 mgs each day for 3 days before detox

-also put me on 150 lyrica times twice a day which gave me some weird thoughts at first.

-After discharge he just wrote scirip for 1 mg clon twice a day and 75 lyrica am and pm-he was angry I couldnt finish detox

-I have been taking both ativan and clon and am totally unstable.

The detox was a NIGHTMARE -given seroquel,trazadone,and everything else.

-I could barely say my name or walk and now I am left to stabalize on my own

-And now back on lyrica which I had quit in october.

-unbelivalble anxiety at this point and downright terror.my pdoc no help.

-have therapist but fear I wont stabalize to get there

-what do I do?

Go back to ativan on which I could function,but was hyperventilating at times?

-try to stabalize on 2mgs clonazepam am and pm? Risk depresssion?

-I could barely move on 3mgs clon -I had some motor retardation

-go back to a higher dose of ativan?

-Please dont CT or get talked into it,now I am a mess my brain doesnt know what its getting or when

-I did not want to CT but my family was insistent.I lost them anyway

-I am now alone and terrified.

My body isnt functioning well,I am not young.

Please help with advice on how to stabalize?And which drug better to do that with.I also have valium.

I am so very sick.I have been taking both ativan and clon as I just cant seem to stabalize.

Please Beeper or someone are you there?

I'm sorry, Katy, but your situation is far beyond my knowledge or experience.  Is going inpatient an option?  You have been bouncing around with so many different drugs and doses that I think you need local, professional help.  I don't think there are any easy answers, or, at least, I surely don't have any.  I'm sorry you are in such a state and have lost you're sisters support.  Could be they think you are an addict and they don't want to be enablers.  My only suggestion if you can't or don't want to go into a facility would be to follow your doctor's instructions and take your medication as prescribed for a week or two and then see if you aren't feeling better and, if not, call him/her.  Good luck and don't lose hope. 

thanks Beeper,it was an inpatient detox in hospital,is that what you meant?

I know its complicated but it was either a rapid detox or I am on m own.I just couldnt take the rapid detox.

It was too much.

I dont think anyone will help me now.I have to be determined to get off them myself.

I did get a counsellor though and am hoping that will help.I didnt want to bounce around,got pushed into the rapid thing by sisters and yes they dont want to enable,and i understand that.

Beeper I asked psych to go hospital just to stabalize -said no

-belive it or not said no

-said doesnt care whether I take ativan or clon but am left to stablaize on my own

-or go to hopst on my own

-I got a bad kidney inf from detox hospital sick now

-dr who discharged me left script for 2mgs clon two times a day

and lyrica 75 two times a day

-It is the honest truth I asked to go hospt and stabalize and psych said no.

This is a terrible situation.and I am trying to get advice from the members.

if I dont stabalize will go to hospital er.

thanks