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What's up with the Remeron craze ?


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I would like to start a thread regarding Remeron and they way it is often recommended here as a completely safe and reliable sleep aid during benzo withdrawal. How often have I read "take Remeron and you WILL sleep" ? And that "it has practically no side-effects or withdrawals" ? Hundreds of times. And that information is incorrect and misleading, as everyone responds differently to drugs, and each and every psychotropic drug comes with its own set of side-effects and withdrawal symptoms.

 

I took Remeron in all kinds of dosages and it did NOT put me to sleep. It did give me all kinds of side effects and it was a pain to get off of. I'm sure I'm not the only one who got into trouble with this particular med.

 

Please be careful with Remeron or other so-called "safe" sleep aids during benzo withdrawal. Why replace one psychotropic med with another one that sets you up for even more nasty symptoms and a lenghty withdrawal ? Surely this can't be the purpose of this forum.

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I guess that's why we all learn to end every post we post here with the standard "but remember, it can be different for everyone." :thumbsup:

 

I don't know anything about the Remeron.

ps. a lot of posters state they also use alcohol, Ashton even states 2 glasses of wine would be ok during tapering, although she also states she does not reccomend using any other drugs in addition to what you are tapering yourself off of, go figure :idiot:

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i learned about remeron on this forum. i thought it would be a good idea because i hadn't slept in 4 months. so i got some from a doctor.

i took a small dose, about 7 mg. the first night and i couldn't believe how brain dead i was. i felt like it had blanketed every receptor. so i cut that dose in half. about 4 mg. for about a week. then i said i don't want to deal with coming off another drug as i am still on the suboxone. so i got off it. and then the other night after reading some posts about the remeron i thought

hmmmmm? i didn't really get good sleep for the last 2 nights i will take a 4 mg. remeron.

 

it took me two days to come out of the brain dead stupor i was in. interesting dreams though and i did sleep. but i would rather go without many hours of sleep then be on that drug. maybe i'll keep for when i am not kindling. ??

probably won't ever take it again.

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Hi prettidaisys, the only thing worse than what you describe is feeling brain dead AND not sleeping! I had that with Remeron and with some other antidepressants like Trazodone, which also gave me terrible headaches.

 

Remeron does in fact blanket more receptors than most other drugs. I think that's why some other benzo sites don't recommend it. It seems so odd to me that on this forum there's almost a tendency to promote Remeron instead of issuing warnings. I've seen it happen on the insomnia board and also in the general withdrawal symptoms threads. My intention is to talk about the risks of this medication rather than to treat Remeron as a miracle pill, as it is often done.

 

I have read some suggestions that Remeron should work much better and be more tolerable if you're not in benzo withdrawal, as if being in benzo withdrawal somehow prevents the Remeron from working properly. I don't believe in that nonsense because some people do benefit from Remeron while in benzo withdrawal and others don't, so it doesn't really add up. And since we're all in benzo withdrawal here, it doesn't even matter if Remeron is potentially more effective without the whole benzo problem or not. I mean, if we hadn't become dependent on the benzos and reached tolerance, taking an occasional benzo would also be effective for insomnia, wouldn't it ? That doesn't mean we should speak in favour of benzos and promote their use. And neither should we encourage other people to get on Remeron, as if that will cure their insomnia once and for all. It will not.

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[15...]

Hi prettidaisys, the only thing worse than what you describe is feeling brain dead AND not sleeping! I had that with Remeron and with some other antidepressants like Trazodone, which also gave me terrible headaches.

 

Remeron does in fact blanket more receptors than most other drugs
. I think that's why some other benzo sites don't recommend it. It seems so odd to me that on this forum there's almost a tendency to promote Remeron instead of issuing warnings. I've seen it happen on the insomnia board and also in the general withdrawal symptoms threads. My intention is to talk about the risks of this medication rather than to treat Remeron as a miracle pill, as it is often done.

I have read some suggestions that Remeron should work much better and be more tolerable if you're not in benzo withdrawal, as if being in benzo withdrawal somehow prevents the Remeron from working properly. I don't believe in that nonsense because some people do benefit from Remeron while in benzo withdrawal and others don't, so it doesn't really add up. And since we're all in benzo withdrawal here, it doesn't even matter if Remeron is potentially more effective without the whole benzo problem or not. I mean, if we hadn't become dependent on the benzos and reached tolerance, taking an occasional benzo would also be effective for insomnia, wouldn't it ? That doesn't mean we should speak in favour of benzos and promote their use. And neither should we encourage other people to get on Remeron, as if that will cure their insomnia once and for all. It will not.

 

Hi LC

 

Wow you really do seem to have a problem with Remeron, can you please supply any scientific data, research papers or info from the current MIMS Prescribing Manual to support this statement below?

 

Remeron does in fact blanket more receptors than most other drugs

 

And which of those receptors are we talking about? specifics please, if you are going to make a sweeping statement like that!

 

I don't believe anyone is 'running' around promoting Remeron as a 'Miracle Pill' (verbatim)  on the site, for those of us who are currently taking it successfully without any side effects, it's a little disconcerting to have someone disparage it so openly, as a result of it not working for you.  Horses for courses.  I don't see you saying we should issue a warning about Trazodone, yet you dislike it too, but not as vehmently as the Remeron.

 

Yes, there are plenty of threads about the advantages of Remeron on the Insomnia thread, ask Builder, Ramcon, Elizabeth, myself and many, many others that feel it has saved them from weeks and weeks of unrelenting insomnia and potentially kept quite a few members out of hospital if they feel it is a drug to be feared and maligned.

 

As for taking a benzo 'here and there' I can't see much wisdom in that and to be frank I don't think too many people will advocate popping one or two when you can't sleep as that in itself can lead to futher dependence.

 

If the BB site was to issue warnings about all medicines as you have indicated in your post, it would turn into nothing more than a drug reference site, rather than a place to share individual experiences.  Of course, if Remeron works well for the user, they will suggest it for someone struggling with sleep issues, just like those doing the MT or Daily Cut or Cut and Hold encourage and support the use of their favoured method.

 

Life is not black and white, it's peppered with grey, your post is pure black and white thinking.

 

Staffy

 

 

 

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Remeron does in fact blanket more receptors than most other drugs. I think that's why some other benzo sites don't recommend it. It seems so odd to me that on this forum there's almost a tendency to promote Remeron instead of issuing warnings. I've seen it happen on the insomnia board and also in the general withdrawal symptoms threads. My intention is to talk about the risks of this medication rather than to treat Remeron as a miracle pill, as it is often done.

 

 

Hi LC,

 

Benzo Buddies does not support any kind of medication to deal with withdrawal symptoms.  This is a peer support forum so what you hear are peoples experiences and yes, at times, they might recommend something to a buddy that is asking for help or opinions. One should always contact their doctor concerning medications however.

 

Personally, I never recommend medications because I think that the best and only healer is time.  I was given Remeron once while still on benzos and just like every other medication I had a severe adverse reaction. Because of my hyper sensitivity to meds I could not feel comfortable suggesting medications to anyone.

 

pianogirl

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Remeron is not the only med I have a problem with. I specifically wrote that I tolerated Trazodone even less so than Remeron, and I got no positive effect from neither of them so they were both equally useless. Only Remeron is more often than Trazodone named on this forum as a safe drug with very low side-effect profile, and "GUARANTEED" to put you to sleep. It did no such thing for me, and it's benefits are seriously overrated, if you ask me.

 

Remeron (mirtazapine) blocks several different kinds of receptors, including serotonin, norepinephrine, histamine, alpha, and muscarinic receptors. The Wikipedia article on mirtazapine lists at least 16 different receptors it is known to act on. So basically it throws nearly your entire nervous system out of balance. When you find another med (antidepressant or other) that acts on so many different receptors, please let me know.

 

If so many people feel they have a right to praise Remeron because it supposedly saved their lives, which is in fact happening on the insomnia board as Staffy admits, then I should have the equal right to talk about the problems this medication can give. I felt it was time to balance things out and post a little about the cons of this particular med, hence this thread.

 

Staffy, where did you read that I think it's ok to take an occasional benzo ? I explained that saying that Remeron works better without benzo withdrawal, as some have said on this forum some time ago (and which I happen to disagree on), is the same as saying that benzos will put you to sleep when you have not reached tolerance, which is in fact true (no argument there). If you hadn't stopped reading there and also looked at my next sentence, you would have noticed that I added: "That doesn't mean we should speak in favour of benzos and promote their use", just like we should not talk about the benefits of Remeron whilst not dealing with benzo withdrawal, because everyone on this forum here is in withdrawal and all that counts is how Remeron works during benzo withdrawal. Similarly, taking a benzo during withdrawal or recovery would not have the same effect as it once had before we reached tolerance, and therefore it is NOT ok to take an occasional benzo dosage once you have been dependent and are trying to recover. So the message I was trying to get across is the opposite of what you're accusing me of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have been on remeron 15mg for one year and although I sleep it makes me feel tired 24/7. I am trying to come off and it has been pretty horrible. Can't wait to be off and hopefully I can still sleep. All these AD are poison, including K. Wish me luck.
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Thanks, jake saint. I'm sure more people will chime in with their negative experiences with Remeron, in particular the withdrawal. Insomnia will probably be your main withdrawal symptom, I'm afraid. And that is something you don't wish to get when insomnia was the reason you started taking this med for in the first place.

 

Staffy, I want to believe that Remeron works for you. But think about this: what drug are you going to take to deal with the Remeron withdrawal ? Another "miracle pill" or as you call it a "life-saving drug" that will once again result in withdrawal induced insomnia ? At some point this search for the right pill that counteracts the previous dependency and withdrawals will have to stop.

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I am on 15mg of Remeron as well.  Never helped me sleep and hate the way I feel on it. Yes, everyone is different and if you can't sleep for more than days on end, I can understand the desperation of wanting to find a solution.  Will try to cut my dose for the first time tonight and am a little scared being that I'm only three weeks off ativan.  My fear is if I don't get off the ADs I'm on, am I really healing, or is the remeron and zoloft masking my withdrawal symptoms of Ativan?  Anyway, I think there is an argument that tolerance is possible with any of these mind-altering drugs -- and with that, where does the cycle end?  At some point, the ultimate goal has to be (IMHO) to get off these drugs or eventually suffer with tolerance withdrawal and risk having to increase the dosage more and more and more.  That's just my fear, and I know that there are many who have been helped for years with these meds... but for me it's one of the biggest fears I have.  I hope we all find success in our attempt of good physical and mental health :) 
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Yes insomnia was bad but the last two nights I have been able to sleep 7 hours. Still feel super tired. Anxiety is also a big one. This stuff is poison. Yes it has allowed me to sleep but felt like a zombie all this time. 4 more days and I will cut to 3.75. Hopefully this set back will be over soon. I have had to place my K taper on hold for now. Not too happy about that. Remeron slows the metabolism rate of benzos so when tapering remeron you also get hit with benzo withdrawals, double whammy. I hate these fu....g drugs. Ruined my life. I was on 6mg's of K years back and I came off without a single symptom, go figure
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For me a very low dose of Remeron did help me sleep and it seemed to mask some w/d symptoms.  It also messed up my cognitive function, made me exceedingly hungry for carbs and I was sleepy all day long.  I ultimately had to get off because of rare s/x.  When I came off the w/d s/x came back.  So for me there was some benefit but there was also a significant downside. 

 

For some remeron has minimized some of the challenges w/d presents.  For others, it was a miserable experience. Some w/d easily, some had a horrible time coming off of it.

 

There are no miracle cures, there is no such thing as drugs without s/x. 

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[15...]

Thanks, jake saint. I'm sure more people will chime in with their negative experiences with Remeron, in particular the withdrawal. Insomnia will probably be your main withdrawal symptom, I'm afraid. And that is something you don't wish to get when insomnia was the reason you started taking this med for in the first place.

 

Staffy, I want to believe that Remeron works for you. But think about this: what drug are you going to take to deal with the Remeron withdrawal ? Another "miracle pill" or as you call it a "life-saving drug" that will once again result in withdrawal induced insomnia ? At some point this search for the right pill that counteracts the previous dependency and withdrawals will have to stop.

 

LC

 

what drug are you going to take to deal with the Remeron withdrawal ?

 

Easy answer to that NONE, because I have come off the Remeron before without any problems.  LC maybe you should look at the post made by one of our beloved members Remmie, who had tried to 'tough it out' for many, many months with no sleep, ended up in a catabolic state and dragged off under a section 50-51 due to lack of sleep and reluctance of her Dr to Rx Remeron, so now the poor young woman gets thrown into the public mental health system.  Seriously - what do you think they are going to give here there- I'll tell you, hard core 'big gun' anti psychotics such as Seroquel, Largactil or Zyprexa, have you seen the side effects profile for those drugs, makes Remeron look like candy.

 

As to your reference for Wiki, any 'Johnny come lately' can add their two cents to that site without any medical training whatsoever, how about you give me a reference from a respected site like Medscape?  You might be surprised at what you find.

 

You don't know me or anything about my situation, so please do not make comments insinuating that I will be seeking the 'next 'miracle pill' as you alluded to.

 

You are talking to the wrong person about medications LC.  Try chemo (high dose Methotrexate) for side effects honey, then we can talk.  Sounds self righteous?  Perhaps, but until you have walked in my shoes, don't you dare assume I don't KNOW suffering and haven't tried to tough it out re sleep, things just get a tad hard when your undergoing chemo with no sleep, hence the Remeron.

 

Talk about make someone's blood boil :oXo:

 

Staffy

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My Remeron story - was given to me while I was tapering off the K....took it two or three times...the 3rd time I took it soon after I took my blood pressure medicine I guess....because I did fall asleep for a bit, got up and fainted and went to the hospital....never took the Remeron again nor the K - that was the end of my taper and the beginning of HELL!

Hoping

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When my whole journey started, I was struck with a sudden, severe, disabling anxiety disorder that came on for no apparent reason.  I took a leave of absence from my work, and was truly afraid I would become suicidal.

 

I quickly learned I couldn't take SSRIs, Buspar didn't help, so I got a referral to a pdoc.  My GP had already given me diazepam, but within about 2 weeks, I became tolerant to my 10 mg/day dose.  But the pdoc said benzos were the first line treatment for GAD, and I was so miserable I was wiling to try anything.  And of course with each dose increase, I soon developed new tolerance.  When I got to 15 mg/day I went back to the pdoc and told her this wasn't working.  She said I just hadn't reached my effective therapeutic dose.

 

So basically at this point this appeared to be my options:

 

Increase my diazepam up to 40 mg/day

Switch to stronger benzo (she suggested lorazepam)

Switch to an antipyschotic (abilify or seroquel)

 

So I could choose to dramatically increase my dependance on benzos (already knowing from experience I would almost certainly wind up both dependant AND tolerant (so no relief from my GAD), or take a powerful antipsychotic with potential serious side effects  (tardive dyskensia, serious weight gain, diabetes (I was already borderline diabetic) serious cognitive impairment, and of course, dependancy, just to name a few)

 

I said I really don't think benzos will work for me, and I'm definitely not psychotic...surely there must be some alternative.  She said well, we could try Remeron.  She gave me a scrip, I did my online research, talked to my GP,  filled the scrip, and my results were wonderful.

 

So remeron gave me sleep, relieved my anxiety, had no significant side effects, and no real depencancy.  Or I could have chosen more and stronger benzos (that almost certainlly wouldn't have worked), or some really scary antipsychotics.  But we know each of us responds to different meds in our own unique way

 

Now, just because I had a very positive experience with remeron does NOT mean I would recommend   it to someone else...I just share my experience. By the same token, I had a really horrible experience with Zoloft, but I would never tell someone else they shouldn't try Zoloft.  Many people have found Zoloft to be as helpful as I found remeron to be.  I would also willingly offer the share my experience with Zoloft (sertraline)

 

I still occasionally take a small dose of remeron for sleep, and if my anxiety returns, I'll go right back to my previous regular daily dose.  We all have to choose our own paths.

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"can you please supply any scientific data, research papers or info from the current MIMS Prescribing Manual to support this statement below?"

 

In my opinion, lol, this would still be just someone elses opinion, you can find Drs that go either way on any one topic, just like your religion, it boils down to who you choose to listen to and agree with

 

Again, this is just my opinion, and we all know what they say about opinions :)

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Why are some people so defensive here ? I never attacked anyone personally. I'm merely asking myself why Remeron is getting so much praise on this forum when obviously the side-effects are considerable, and getting off the drug is no easy task either for many of us. Plus the main withdrawal symptom is again crippling insomnia, so I don't really see the point in switching from a benzo to Remeron to treat your insomnia, when insomnia is the first thing you will experience once you try to ditch the Remeron. That's why I'm asking those who are currently taking Remeron for sleep what there next move will be. They can say they won't take anything instead, but as long as they're still on the Remeron, how do they really know ? Previous experiences don't really count when it comes to psychotropic drugs. There's no guarantee that your next withdrawal from Remeron will be as easy as the first. Each new pill is another attack on our central nervous system, and it gets sensitized more and more until it can't take anything anymore and each subsequent withdrawal will be harder and longer.

 

I have not slept in almost six years myself, so I know perfectly well how debilitating not sleeping can be. But I also experienced first hand how medication makes the insomnia exponentially worse, whereas good sleep hygiene works equally well if not better than any drug, plus there are no side effects. I'd rather have poor sleep without any drugs until my CNS is healed than have even poorer sleep or none at all whilst being dependent on some drug I can't even tolerate and that will take me months or years to get out of my system.

 

By the way, Staffy, I was put on 4 antipsychotics myself for sleep, including Seroquel. I was clear awake on all of them and had numerous side-effects. Just because they are more dangerous than Remeron doesn't make Remeron candy, though.

 

There are numerous references to scientific sources in Wikipedia articles. The information I gave about Remeron is correct. Do a search yourself and you will find the exact same information that I found, from any existing source. Remeron acts on nearly all receptors in our brain.

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INSOMNIA can be a problem all by itself, at one time I was taking Paxil, Ambien, Xanax, along with some natural herbal smoking supplement :laugh: and drink :D and would stay up for 4 days straight at a time,,,,go figure.....  Now I sleep ALL day and ALL night (no drugs expect for alprazolam, which I'm tapering, and metoprolol, my beta blocker for my heart arrhythmias.

Staffy, that was just a mild meltdown, you'll be ok :2funny:

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[15...]

INSOMNIA can be a problem all by itself, at one time I was taking Paxil, Ambien, Xanax, along with some natural herbal smoking supplement :laugh: and drink :D and would stay up for 4 days straight at a time,,,,go figure.....  Now I sleep ALL day and ALL night (no drugs expect for alprazolam, which I'm tapering, and metoprolol, my beta blocker for my heart arrhythmias.

Staffy, that was just a mild meltdown, you'll be ok :2funny:

 

No Jamsek that's not a meltdown that's just me being me. >:D  As strongly as LC believes in her right to inform people of the 'issues' involved with Remeron, I defend my right to state that in certain cases it can help people.  Perhaps if Remmie had it Rx'd she wouldn't have been 51-50'd, guess we'll never know, unless we hear from Remmie herself.

 

Staffy

 

 

 

 

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when i took my last 4 mg. remeron i was actually going to start a new post about how it made me feel.

i'm glad i didn'thttp://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/nervous/nervous.gif

but when i first got the remeron that was the first thing that my doctor told me that the remeron targeted many receptor's where as other med's worked on just one specific receptor or something like that.

 

i hadn't slept in 4 months at the time and i was hallucinating every night so when she told me that--that was like music to my hears!! i wanted that. but remeron did not work out for me. left me feeling very brain dead and couldn't hold one thought.

probably because i am kindling!!

 

i know that the remeron worked very nicely for Parker on here and she said that it didn't affect her benzo healing at all. and there are other's who don't want to take it any longer because now they have to taper from it.

and then there are those people for whom it works very well. that's what medication should be about.

 

but i have to say that if there wasn't so much talk about it on here--i would've never known about it. but i did need something at that time. it didn't work and i still only get about 1 hour per night. that's just the way it's gwanna go until sleep comes to me. i do want sleep to come to me naturally and i am willing do forgo it some nights as there's really nothing i can do because i can't take anything.

 

but i have found that aspirin is really working wonders for me. i almost want to start a new post about that! it is really calming me down. the excedrin does. maybe because of the caffeine? but let me tell you--it's freaking working! it's good! loving it! using it! will continue! kinda puts me in a 5 second window! i am promoting this!http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/dancing/michael-jackson-dance-smiley-emoticon.gif

just kidding! i am kidding. no, but really--i read that aspirin is an antioxidant. i don't think too much excedrin is good but it really is helping me right now. but i do have to say that there seems to be a good amount of promoting of the remeron on here.

and i also have to say that if it's working for somebody and they need it--then by all means. i think that's good then, that's what medication is for. remeron is not for me--aspirin is right now! ciao ~

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Why are some people so defensive here ? I never attacked anyone personally. I'm merely asking myself why Remeron is getting so much praise on this forum when obviously the side-effects are considerable, and getting off the drug is no easy task either for many of us. Plus the main withdrawal symptom is again crippling insomnia, so I don't really see the point in switching from a benzo to Remeron to treat your insomnia, when insomnia is the first thing you will experience once you try to ditch the Remeron. That's why I'm asking those who are currently taking Remeron for sleep what there next move will be. They can say they won't take anything instead, but as long as they're still on the Remeron, how do they really know ? Previous experiences don't really count when it comes to psychotropic drugs. There's no guarantee that your next withdrawal from Remeron will be as easy as the first. Each new pill is another attack on our central nervous system, and it gets sensitized more and more until it can't take anything anymore and each subsequent withdrawal will be harder and longer.

 

 

The reason "...some people are so defensive"  is you make these sweeping generalisations as if they were universally true!  And based on the experiences of other board members, me included, they obviously are NOT universally true.  Obviously a number of us have found remeron to an effective sleep aid, and effective A/D and anxiolytic, having a very safe and limited side fx profile, and very easy to withdraw from.

 

As stated in my previous post, I had a horrible experience with Zoloft (sertraline), but I don't go on forums preaching the horrors of Zoloft or ssri's.  Unfortunately, there are no universal outcomes with psych drugs. 

 

By the way, Staffy, I was put on 4 antipsychotics myself for sleep, including Seroquel. I was clear awake on all of them and had numerous side-effects. Just because they are more dangerous than Remeron doesn't make Remeron candy, though.

 

Based on this statement, I'm curious why you are not attacking antipsychotics. And yes, we agree that antipsychotics are more dangerous than Remeron, so that's why I chose to try Reemeron instead of an antipsychotic.  Seems logical to me.

 

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I don't get it.  Who's attacking who?  The discussion is about remeron - an inanimate substance.

 

I've had good experiences with aspirin but if someone says it doesn't work for them, that it's the worst drug on earth, I don't feel attacked.  I'm not married to aspirin.  The sun will still rise in the morning if someone doesn't like it.

 

If we go to an art museum and you don't like Monet, I'm not offended.  Sure Monet was the reason I went, I love Monet's Water Lilies almost as much as my soccer ball, but I'm not hurt if you hate Monet in particular and water foliage in general.  If Monet isn't your cup of tea, you get flashbacks, side-effects, and all manner of symptoms, you're allowed.

 

Ibblesworth

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Just to give my experience with Remeron.  I was put on it due to a doctor just really experimenting on me.  Within a few weeks I was up 12 pounds without eating any differently.  Then I learned they give it to anorexics to force them to gain weight.  It must mess with a person's metabolism somehow.  I was also intensely tired all day from taking it.

 

That was before I started withdrawing from benzos.  I got off it in less than a month, meaning I took it for less than a month.

 

I might consider it when I go off benzos if I have trouble sleeping.  But I did find the weight gain disturbing.

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