Have you changed from the cut and hold method to microtapering?

bump (for Colin's posts)

But seriously, there was some good history and  perspective embedded in it...

Hi Mary..

Yes,

 

The prolonged, many year taper could almost be classified as an " urban legend" here in the US, IMO.

 

Intend

in your opinion, what is a reasonable length of taper off of 1mg clonazepam?

(i know it ranges widely from person to person, but i am looking for an educated guesstimate, nothing more precise. like, 7 years or 1 year or 100 days?)

nomoredrugsforme

It's individual and depends on how you taper, cut and hold, DLMT etc...

1mg K-pin = 15mgs Valium.

I would say around a year to a year and a half would be good imo, but that might be too fast for some (and too slow for others). 7 years would be going really, really slow too slow imo. Base the taper on your symptoms and go at a speed where you feel the least discomfort.

It did get heated for sure...I was most interested in what Colin had to say as he never posts much anymore...

All I can say to that is, hallelujah!

nomoredrugsforme

 

It's individual and depends on how you taper, cut and hold, DLMT etc...

 

1mg K-pin = 15mgs Valium.

 

I would say around a year to a year and a half would be good imo, but that might be too fast for some (and too slow for others). 7 years would be going really, really slow too slow imo. Base the taper on your symptoms and go at a speed where you feel the least discomfort.

thank you for this!

it backs up what i already suspected, but on another board was told my taper off of all 3 psych meds was supposed to take about 7 years for each med, one at a time consecutively. i was punished for agreeing wth a person who successfully poly-tapered from polydrugs by doing a very very slow microtaper. personally 21 years of DLMT is unreasonable for me, and i would be elderly and unable to secure work at the finish!! having been polydrugged for 24 years, i know that my taper is likely to last up to ten years, which i'm not excited about but am prepared to do. i think expecting people to spend over a decade to come off of a drug is unrealistic...of course there are exceptions. but the vast majority can come off in much less time if doing a DLMT at a slow but steady rate i do believe!

you stated that "1mg K-pin = 15mgs Valium."

since the Ashton Manual says 1mg K=20mg V, where did you get your numbers?

It very well could be 20mgs. I am not sure. I used a conversion chart online but I would go with Ashton.

You have a great plan - with a DLMT, you can adjust the speed as you go.

You got this!

Actually, you could both be right, it is probably between 15 and 20.  None of them are 100% accurate and Valium is so sedating, you could easily say 17 in my opinion.  Good luck 🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀 Mary

Actually, you could both be right, it is probably between 15 and 20.  None of them are 100% accurate and Valium is so sedating, you could easily say 17 in my opinion.  Good luck 🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀 Mary

Just kidding -anyone reading..

Actually, you could both be right, it is probably between 15 and 20.  None of them are 100% accurate and Valium is so sedating, you could easily say 17 in my opinion.  Good luck 🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀 Mary

Lol 17 years..!! Good golly Mary M.. -thats slower than me..!! 🐢🐢🐢

Just kidding -anyone reading..

 

Mgs Merlin, not time.  Are you drinking 

Actually, you could both be right, it is probably between 15 and 20.  None of them are 100% accurate and Valium is so sedating, you could easily say 17 in my opinion.  Good luck 🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀 Mary

Lol 17 years..!! Good golly Mary M.. -thats slower than me..!! 🐢🐢🐢

Just kidding -anyone reading..

 

 

Mgs Merlin, not time.  Are you drinking 

Do I need to come get you

well, no offense to anyone, but there is no way in hell i'm gonna spend 15-20 years coming off the drugs that already stole 24 years of my life.

like i said no offense meant.

15-20 years of tapering is insane - who suggested that?

well the mods (except for the one who successfully polytapered off her meds that i agreed with) over at SA did lol! but it was a misunderstands of another post about mg's not years 

I was talking about MGS, not time .....15 to 20 mgs of Valium 

oh!! lol well that makes more sense haha

15-20 years of tapering is insane - who suggested that?

 

well the mods (except for the one who successfully polytapered off her meds that i agreed with) over at SA did lol! but it was a misunderstands of another post about mg's not years 

Thank you, the posts right above were about mgs, not years.....I was responding to those 

Oh gosh...!! Did I do that..??

For the record... I came off 25 MG of V in 2 YEARS... But it took me one Year to do the final 1 mg of V..

It was the best thing I could have done for ME in MY situation...

bump (for Colin's posts)

From the days when I was bad-ass!

Thanks, Soberhope.

bump (for Colin's posts)

From the days when I was bad-ass!

 

Thanks, Soberhope.

You are both bad ass

Oh gosh...!! Did I do that..??

 

For the record... I came off 25 MG of V in 2 YEARS... But it took me one Year to do the final 1 mg of V..

It was the best thing I could have done for ME in MY situation...

And that's fine. The problem I had with the method described in the patent is that it was being promoted as being somehow optimal (with the strong suggestion that it totally avoids withdrawal symptoms). The true optimal method is the one that gets the individual off in the minimum amount of time without undue distress. Of course, the chosen method and the time this takes will depend upon the individual and their life situation. Oh, and the other big problem I had with the method was the suggestion of using of grapefruit (juice) as some kind of dose correction device (this is very dangerous advice).

Anyway, I am glad that you achieved your goal of getting off benzodiazepines. Good job!

The true optimal method is the one that gets the individual off in the minimum amount of time without undue distress. Of course, the chosen method and the time this takes will depend upon the individual and their life situation. Oh, and the other big problem I had with the method was the suggestion of using of grapefruit (juice) as some kind of dose correction device (this is very dangerous advice).

A lot of people, myself included, put a premium on minimizing as much stress and side effects as possible.  Some of us are less able to cope with it--especially when it comes to managing our normal lives and jobs.  Thus we are willing to take longer if we can have a more trouble-free time.

I read about what some people are going through and I am horrified.  There is no way that I think I could manage it.  I was doing the Ashton cut and hold but when I got to about 7.5 mg a day the SXS started to become a problem.  At the time I was cutting .5 mg of valium at a time and holding until I stabilized.  By the time I got down to 6 mg it was a major problem and I was typically holding 3-4 weeks after a cut until I was stabilized.

The daily liquid micro taper has been a godsend.  I don't know where I would be without it.

I started it in the fall of 2018, many years since the start of this thread, and I have no idea about grapefruit juice, nor have I ever tried using it.  In fact I am on some other meds (anti-cholesterol and/or blood pressure) that require me to abstain from grapefruits or grapefruit juice.

A lot of people, myself included, put a premium on minimizing as much stress and side effects as possible.  Some of us are less able to cope with it--especially when it comes to managing our normal lives and jobs.  Thus we are willing to take longer if we can have a more trouble-free time.

Hi confuseduser,

There is nothing wrong with you using titration and/or going as slow you feel you need. It was the promotion of extremely long withdrawal tapers (lasting 7, 8, 10 years or even longer) as somehow ideal with which I took issue.

I read about what some people are going through and I am horrified.  There is no way that I think I could manage it.  I was doing the Ashton cut and hold but when I got to about 7.5 mg a day the SXS started to become a problem.  At the time I was cutting .5 mg of valium at a time and holding until I stabilized.  By the time I got down to 6 mg it was a major problem and I was typically holding 3-4 weeks after a cut until I was stabilized.

That's part of the problem. Those who experience the worst problems are understandably going to write and be loudest about it. Those who experience relatively few problems have little reason to report this or even join BB. This skews perspectives. There is no easy answer to this. But by being unnecessarily worried about worst case scenarios means that we are overly susceptible to following regimens which might be less than optimal for personal situation. There is no easy answer to this conundrum. We just have to accept that it is there and try to mitigate against it as best we can. Maybe this applies to you and your situation, or maybe it does not. There is no way for me to know, and it can be very difficult (or impossible) for the individual to determine too. So, my general advise for members would be to be aware of the potential problem, try to mitigate against it, but try not worry about it either. So long as we move forward at a not totally unreasonable rate (for our given circumstances), then it is progress and that's what is important.

The daily liquid micro taper has been a godsend.  I don't know where I would be without it.

It certainly has it uses and advantages (for some people). I am glad that it is working out so well for you.

I started it in the fall of 2018, many years since the start of this thread, and I have no idea about grapefruit juice, nor have I ever tried using it.  In fact I am on some other meds (anti-cholesterol and/or blood pressure) that require me to abstain from grapefruits or grapefruit juice.

It is because of people like you (and there are even more dose critical medications out there) I took such a strong position with the suggestion that people should attempt to use grapefruit (juice) as some kind of benzodiazepine dosage error correction device. The suggestion is stupid and dangerous. I explain why grapefruit (juice) is dangerous and why a one-off dosing error requires no 'correction' in this post:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=72390.msg973423#msg973423

Anyway, just to be clear, I have no issue with the regimen you or any other individual might choose to follow. It is the promotion of nonsense as 'the ideal' with which I take issue.

Good luck.

There is nothing wrong with you using titration and/or going as slow you feel you need. It was the promotion of extremely long withdrawal tapers (lasting 7, 8, 10 years or even longer) as somehow ideal with which I took issue.

 

I started it in the fall of 2018, many years since the start of this thread, and I have no idea about grapefruit juice, nor have I ever tried using it.  In fact I am on some other meds (anti-cholesterol and/or blood pressure) that require me to abstain from grapefruits or grapefruit juice.

 

It is because of people like you (and there are even more dose critical medications out there) I took such a strong position with the suggestion that people should attempt to use grapefruit (juice) as some kind of benzodiazepine dosage error correction device. The suggestion is stupid and dangerous. I explain why grapefruit (juice) is dangerous and why a one-off dosing error requires no 'correction' in this post:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=72390.msg973423#msg973423

 

Anyway, just to be clear, I have no issue with the regimen you or any other individual might choose to follow. It is the promotion of nonsense as 'the ideal' with which I take issue.

 

Good luck.

yes to this!

i also have had to avoid grapefruit and grapefruit juice the entire length of my polydrugged HX because of how it alters the way my meds are metabolized (makes them too weak or too strong i forget which way it goes) and i believe it probably has the same effect on most meds. when people give advice they don't personally vet beforehand/research to confirm or rule out whether is true and sound advice but just spout off whatever they heard, basically just parroting the crap they heard and it hurts others, it makes me angry. but we are each responsible for our own mistakes...so if we take soeone's word for it, it's on us. we pay the price whether the advice was good or bad, based on our own choice to follow that advice. which is precisely why we are here today, we followed good and bad advice because we trusted what someone told us. yeah theyy were wrong to tell us take this pill or that and not tell us the truth of what it would do to us, but in the end, it is ME who is responsible for swallowing a pill or not. or grapefruit juice, lol. i am responsible for my own life, my mistakes and my successes. and i have given my own share of good and bad advice. i'm learning now to take responsibility for that.

but i'm not the one who advised taking grapefruit juice btw lol! just to clarify that haha "it wasn't me!"  got to keep a healthy sense of humor about stuff in this weird life i'm living.

oh and yes to the "DLMT" for 7-10+ years is too damn long for MOST people" part (quote is mine) ...my god people i have been on polydrugs for 24 years and i'm not about to spend the same amount of time coming off of them. seriously. if anyone else does- that's their business and not for me to criticize, but there is no way i'm spending that much time getting off these drugs when they already stole half my life from me. or rather...i took them for half of my life and i allowed myself to be wasted/ruined/harmed/injured/damaged/(insert your own adjective for effed up here) by those pills. there. now that's more accurate and authentic. i need to take responsibility for the good AND especially the bad stuff that has happened in order to reclaim my power. if i spend 7-10+ years tapering off of my meds to avoid having any sx's (or rather, stretch out the symptoms until infinity) lol, then i would be choosing to drag this thing out. i won't do that anymore. for myself, i choose to taper abt 10% total every 6 weeks or faster if i choose or slower if i choose based on how i'm feeling. i do break it up into week long sections, so i'm actually making smaller cuts of about 2.5% every week or so but it usually comes out to about 10% every 6 weeks. i was kicked off SA because i chose a polydrug LMT with a suspension vehicle instead of the BrassMonkey Micro Taper and was told by the owner/originator of SA that i could expect to receive no help and i was on my own. which turned out to be a good thing cause i came back to BB and have been much more supported ever since.

thank goodness for the Mods here being more realistic and , well, just for being REAL.  you know, like the kids say...(authentic and sincere.)

nomoredrugsforme

 

It's individual and depends on how you taper, cut and hold, DLMT etc...

 

1mg K-pin = 15mgs Valium.

 

I would say around a year to a year and a half would be good imo, but that might be too fast for some (and too slow for others). 7 years would be going really, really slow too slow imo. Base the taper on your symptoms and go at a speed where you feel the least discomfort.

 

thank you for this!

 

it backs up what i already suspected, but on another board was told my taper off of all 3 psych meds was supposed to take about 7 years for each med, one at a time consecutively. i was punished for agreeing wth a person who successfully poly-tapered from polydrugs by doing a very very slow microtaper. personally 21 years of DLMT is unreasonable for me, and i would be elderly and unable to secure work at the finish!! having been polydrugged for 24 years, i know that my taper is likely to last up to ten years, which i'm not excited about but am prepared to do. i think expecting people to spend over a decade to come off of a drug is unrealistic...of course there are exceptions. but the vast majority can come off in much less time if doing a DLMT at a slow but steady rate i do believe!

 

you stated that "1mg K-pin = 15mgs Valium."

since the Ashton Manual says 1mg K=20mg V, where did you get your numbers?

Hi nomoredrugsforme,

I was going to reply to part of your post above, but it morphed into something else. Instead, I've created a new thread on the Substitution Board (Edit: I ended up moving the thread to the Chewing the Fat board - an even more suitable location):

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=224848.0

It may or may not be of some interest to you.