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I'm not here to judge anyone, but clearly this should not even be under discussion since the entire literature on benzodiazepines and all those involved agree that alcohol is a no-go during recovery from benzo dependence, even in low or moderate doses.

 

There's a similar situation going on on the insomnia board of this forum, where a woman - I'm not naming any names - is always complaining about not sleeping after almost two years off, when she has not been even one week without either wine or OTC sleep meds or both. Everyone is telling her she should quit and she just won't listen.

 

I feel that for someone who is consuming alcohol and comes onto this forum complaining, that is indeed insulting to those members who are doing everything to cure themselves and still they have barely improved. I have never drunk alcohol or used drugs in my entire life (other than the meds I was prescribed), I don't drink coffee and I don't eat processed foods that could contain MSG, and still I'm suffering from crippling symptoms including severe insomnia at 16 months off after a slow taper. I feel like a freak, and sometimes I feel like I'm the wrong forum, since everytime a person is not getting better it turnes out alcohol, pills or drugs seem to be the cause. That is not the case with me, and I don't understand why I'm not getting better. But at least I know I'm not doing this to myself.

 

That said, I have no experience with alcohol whatsoever, so I don't know what it does to a person and how it takes control over you. I have never experienced alcohol cravings or anything like it. I've seen it happen to other people and they were not bad people nor did they inted to harm themselves or someone else. Somehow the booze took over. So my suggestion would also be to go to the AA and look for help there. They won't be able to help you with the benzo withdrawal but at least you will get off the alcohol.

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Some are able to drink moderately while going through withdrawal, some do not have to give up coffee. Some cannot touch sugars and MSG, while in in others we do not see a reaction.

 

Some go absolutely overboard in supplements, restrictions in diet, and spend thousand of dollars seeing alternative specialists who only aggravate their fears while emptying their pockets. Food intolerance in benzo withdrawal is a very real thing, but so is an obsessive lifestyle, where anxiety rears its ugly head as fear of reacting to different types of food, coffee, alcohol, msg, sugars, and whatever you read can affect you.

 

We are all so different in this, what affects you might not affect me, and vice versa.

 

I do see why some gets a bit pissed at bmwzw, but I am reacting to the sometimes rigid understanding of do's and don'ts, that I too view as a problem.

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Alcohol in moderation helps more often than hinders sleep.  I can't remember a time when it didn't make me sleepy.  Nicotine and caffeine interfere with sleep far more than alcohol.

 

As far as benzo wd goes, I think moderate alcohol use is up to an individual and shouldn't cause a firestorm of castigation and scorn.  I know about cross-tolerance but when it comes to benzo wd, no amount of alcohol ever replaced the missing benzo - I tried.  They aren't a perfect match.

 

If alcohol is used to excess, as in my case, it may create a desire for more benzos to cope with the hangover.  I'm 13 months sober and had to give it up but I'm not about to scold someone who uses it.  And even if alcohol is completely and utterly bad, even wholly evil, why gang up on someone who's still using it for one reason or another, in moderation or excess?

 

This forum is big on scolding and weak on empathy.  We can't walk in another's shoes and never will, but we can try to put ourself in their place and empathize.

 

Don't most of the experts recommend giving up smoking and coffee?  Do all you smokers and caffeine users report that in your signature?  Go do searches on your past threads and look in the mirror.

 

Some buddy system you have here.

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I think the problem here is that bmwzw did not even mention before that he's still drinking every time he posted a frantic message. If other members had known, they would have been able to give him better advice. I think we all agree here that this is not just some small detail that he left out.

 

I agree we shouldn't become too obsessive about what not to eat or drink during our withdrawal, and when we're talking supplements and diets, some of it is fear and not reality. But if I wasn't moving forward and I was consuming alcohol twice a week, somehow I think that would be the first thing I should look into and see what happens if I ditch the alcohol, especially with all the warnings from other forum members and the literature. Also, I don't think alcohol and coffee are comparable in the context of benzo withdrawal. They both cause problems but I'm pretty sure the consequences of drinking alcohol are far bigger than having a cup of coffee or smoke a cigarette (not that I would know because I do none of it myself, but I base my opinion on what I read everywhere).

 

Vribble, it's also not about the question if alcohol and benzos are interchangeable and if alcohol can replace a missing benzo. That's irrelevant. The fact is that, in most people, alcohol hinders recovery from benzo dependence, and after all that's what we are all trying to achieve here, including bmwzw. BTW, all scientific sources say that alcohol is bad for sleep, period. It induces sleep but ruins the rest of the night plus it gives a hangover. It is as bad a sleep aid as a benzo and should not be used for that purpose, particularly in this situation.

 

 

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from Wikipedia:

 

Low doses of alcohol (one 12 oz. beer) are sleep-promoting by increasing total sleep time and reducing awakenings during the night. The sleep-promoting benefits of alcohol dissipate at moderate and higher doses of alcohol (two 12 oz. beers and three 12 oz. beers, respectively).[3] Previous experience with alcohol also determines whether or not alcohol is a "sleep promoter" or "sleep disrupter." Under free-choice conditions, in which subjects chose between drinking alcohol or water, inexperienced drinkers were sedated while experienced drinkers were stimulated following alcohol consumption.[4] In insomniacs, moderate doses of alcohol improve sleep maintenance.[5]

 

 

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BMW

 

I feel same as Mandala .

I was  so sorry for you, how much you suffer , but now after I know you was drinking all this time , I try help you like others,  I feel betrayed.

 

 

I dont' feel good about this situation ,  I believed most people here  suffering  from benzo w/d  , not from  not alcohol use .

 

 

Even I am ok with bozze drink , but then I think you BMW should be on different  web . dealing with alcohol problem .

This is BB  , benzo  bodies . not booze .

 

 

I  feel    bad  , ever waste my time to help.

I dont' feel sorry  ,  feel I was lied to .

Erika :-[     

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I think the problem here is that bmwzw did not even mention before that he's still drinking every time he posted a frantic message. If other members had known, they would have been able to give him better advice. I think we all agree here that this is not just some small detail that he left out.

 

I agree we shouldn't become too obsessive about what not to eat or drink during our withdrawal, and when we're talking supplements and diets, some of it is fear and not reality. But if I wasn't moving forward and I was consuming alcohol twice a week, somehow I think that would be the first thing I should look into and see what happens if I ditch the alcohol, especially with all the warnings from other forum members and the literature. Also, I don't think alcohol and coffee are comparable in the context of benzo withdrawal. They both cause problems but I'm pretty sure the consequences of drinking alcohol are far bigger than having a cup of coffee or smoke a cigarette (not that I would know because I do none of it myself, but I base my opinion on what I read everywhere).

 

Vribble, it's also not about the question if alcohol and benzos are interchangeable and if alcohol can replace a missing benzo. That's irrelevant. The fact is that, in most people, alcohol hinders recovery from benzo dependence, and after all that's what we are all trying to achieve here, including bmwzw. BTW, all scientific sources say that alcohol is bad for sleep, period. It induces sleep but ruins the rest of the night plus it gives a hangover. It is as bad a sleep aid as a benzo and should not be used for that purpose, particularly in this situation.

 

I very much agree with your post. Alcohol should be the first place to look when trying to find a source to problems in taper or post taper. Caffeine is "just" excitatory, which can aggravate anxiety, stress, insomnia, but is does not prevent or hurt recovery.

 

If I was bmwzw, I would seriously consider to kick alcohol, but then again, it is not my life. 

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You should be on AA ask for help there .

Why you are  asking people here for help ???? WHY ????

You should be honest with us  from day one , you drinking  alcohol .

I cannot believe , how many times I try help you and was thinking about you how much you are suffereing  and  all this was just  prank from you .!! SHAME

Erika

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BMZ has been benzo free for over a year.  Heroic in my view.  Having a side issue with occasional alcohol use doesn't diminish that.

 

What's to criticize and feel betrayed about?  He's not pretending to taper with frequent updoses or hiding anything. 

 

He's being real and honest which is refreshing.

 

 

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Alcohol in moderation helps more often than hinders sleep.  I can't remember a time when it didn't make me sleepy.  Nicotine and caffeine interfere with sleep far more than alcohol.

 

Benzo withdrawal is a very individual thing. I assume by reading you signature (and the fact you said you have been sober 13 months), seems you don't have any experience at all with alcohol while in benzo withdrawal. Our brain and CNS works completely different in withdrawal. You just never know what to expect. I've had spells where things that usually didn't bother me, all of the sudden start making me feel very bad. I had a glass of wine about 9 months ago, and it didnt bother me one bit, but I drank 4 non alcoholic beers (they do contain a very small amount of alcohol) a couple of weeks ago, and that night I woke up from my sleep feeling like my brain was being electrocuted, and I felt like I had a bad hangover the next morning. We just really never know. It's always best to avoid most things that are known to exacerbate withdrawal symptoms.

 

Alcohol may or may not prolong withdrawal, but It's pretty obvious for the majority of people, it exacerbates it.

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He's being real and honest which is refreshing.

 

Leaving big things out like using alcohol is not exactly real or honest on a benzo support forum, especially when most of the info out there is strongly against it.

 

Hopefully he has learned from his mistake and can now move on in recovery. Sure everyone is a bit upset, but are still here to support him throughout the rest of his journey. His actions are what were judged, not him personally.

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Drinking alcohol twice a week every week during post withdrawal is not "occasional" use.

 

I don't see the point in posting quotes from Wikipedia that attribute sleep-promoting qualities to alcohol when used in low doses. Even if that is true (which I doubt), this information has no place on a forum like this, where people having trouble sleeping while recovering from a benzo dependence might interpret this as "it's ok to use alcohol for insomnia if I just don't overdo it". The information you found might be applicable to people who are not healing from the damage benzos did to their brain, but this is an entirely different situation. Besides, I bet I can find thousands of scientifically based articles that advise against the use of alcohol for insomnia issues in general, not only during benzo withdrawal.

 

Taking the occasional rescue dose of a benzo during recovery will probably put you to sleep also, but that doesn't mean it is safe to do it.

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Thanks for the support guys, Erika I appreciate your support too, just trying to get to root of these symptoms, if its alcohol then great and hopefully my symptoms will start to go away soon. But my symptoms remain on a daily basis the same: shaking, head pressure, dizzy Fairfield feeling, hard to formulate thoughts, shaky legs, eyes closing, chills/burning skin, blurry vision, pressure behind eyes, nausea, fast heart rate, insomnia, etc. again I'm real and honest and appreciate everyone's advice and reasureance. Erika if you feel I betrayed you I'm sorry, I know how much you have helped me over the past year and I am greatful, I'm not a bad guy just can't figure out why I suffer so much with the same exact symptoms everyday.
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BMZ has been benzo free for over a year.  Heroic in my view.  Having a side issue with occasional alcohol use doesn't diminish that.

 

What's to criticize and feel betrayed about?  He's not pretending to taper with frequent updoses or hiding anything. 

 

He's being real and honest which is refreshing.

 

 

 

Like many people here I have no idea  he  is drinking .

I believe this is BB == benzo forum.  Not AA.

I am very betrayed .!

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Thanks for the support guys, Erika I appreciate your support too, just trying to get to root of these symptoms, if its alcohol then great and hopefully my symptoms will start to go away soon. But my symptoms remain on a daily basis the same: shaking, head pressure, dizzy Fairfield feeling, hard to formulate thoughts, shaky legs, eyes closing, chills/burning skin, blurry vision, pressure behind eyes, nausea, fast heart rate, insomnia, etc. again I'm real and honest and appreciate everyone's advice and reasureance. Erika if you feel I betrayed you I'm sorry, I know how much you have helped me over the past year and I am greatful, I'm not a bad guy just can't figure out why I suffer so much with the same exact symptoms everyday.

 

Hey man I hope you get over this stuff soon. I have the same stuff every day too.

 

I think it may be best not to try to figure out why it's all happening. With what little study has been done, they found out its because of downregulated GABA, and GABA plays a HUGE role in how your CNS reacts to everything. You are going to have symptoms until your GABA resets, which may take some time. Until then, all you can do is take care of yourself, get support, and just ride it out. Meanwhile, try not to cause yourself to feel worse by dwelling and stressing, trying to find the answer that no one knows. All we know is that we will heal, it's just a matter of time.

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I'm suffering from crippling symptoms including severe insomnia at 16 months off after a slow taper. I feel like a freak, and sometimes I feel like I'm the wrong forum, since everytime a person is not getting better it turnes out alcohol, pills or drugs seem to be the cause. That is not the case with me, and I don't understand why I'm not getting better. But at least I know I'm not doing this to myself.

 

You are 16 months off and still suffering. How can you assume that someone who is off for one year and suffering is "doing this to themselves"? I see lots of people posting about how bad they are feeling 6,12,18 months even two years or more off and I seriously doubt that they are all consuming alcohol or other drugs.

 

When I get a good night's sleep I tend to feel a lot better the next day. Would it be fair for me to chastise someone who is going through benzo wd who decided to forego a little sleep in order to work or go fishing? The argument could certainly be made that this is not good for recovery, but this isn't something that is stigmatized so we don't criticize others for doing it and no one feels "betrayed" when it happens.

 

I know the benzo brain makes it hard to think clearly, but you really have to look at this for what it is. We simply do not know whether or not alcohol is causing his problems. Period. He is experiencing benzodiazepine withdrawal. People who go through this can have all sorts of problems for many months or years after getting off the drug, with or without having consumed alcohol.

 

 

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BMW

 

I think this will not settle down until the members have heard that you have eliminated alcohol completely for an extended period of time.

 

There have been people who have reported that they cannot have even one drink post benzo use.

 

 

You may be one of them. Right now, time is needed to sort this out, and it would be more constructive for BMW's support if everybody allowed him time to see what happens.

 

 

River

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I have read pages upon pages of literature on benzo wd and I can't recall seeing anything that says that alcohol interferes with recovery.

 

Does anyone have a link?

 

Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't or can't, I am saying that it is unfair to make assumptions and to treat someone who is suffering with disrespect. By doing that you aren't any better than ignorant people who look at ALL of us like we are junkies.

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I don't feel "betrayed". I just feel that he could put forth a little more effort to help himself. Like 1: Reading the forum more, and using the search function when he has symptoms, instead of starting new threads asking "is this a withdrawal symptom?". When you search for symptoms you find many threads where lots of people have already posted and provided a ton of support, then you can post on that thread and people see it, and add to it. You get a lot more info and support this way. Also, 2: Start trying to avoid certain things that are known to exacerbate withdrawal, and see how it goes. You may have to avoid it for literally months, not weeks.
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You should be on AA ask for help there .

Why you are  asking people here for help ???? WHY ????

You should be honest with us  from day one , you drinking  alcohol .

I cannot believe , how many times I try help you and was thinking about you how much you are suffereing  and  all this was just  prank from you .!! SHAME

Erika

 

That's enough of this! bmw has also had trouble with benzos just as we all have. He is entitled to get the help he needs.  I understand the frustration but this has gone too far.

 

You may discuss how alcohol affects recovery from benzo withdrawal but keep all further personal comments about bmw from this thread.

 

I hope this is the end of this kind of posting.

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I have read pages upon pages of literature on benzo wd and I can't recall seeing anything that says that alcohol interferes with recovery.

 

Does anyone have a link?

 

Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't or can't, I am saying that it is unfair to make assumptions and to treat someone who is suffering with disrespect. By doing that you aren't any better than ignorant people who look at ALL of us like we are junkies.

 

Im not arguing with you, FG. Ihaven't read much on anything even Ashton's work that states alcohol makes it worse, and Ashton even says its ok to drink a glass of wine a day, or whatever. It just seems like 90+ percent of people that drink, end up feeling bad. Reading those personal experiences is plenty enough to make me want to avoid it. I drank the small glass of wine months ago just to test the water. Didnt bother me a bit. But I feel even the non alcoholic beers a few weeks ago revved me up for 2-3 days. Of course it could have been coincidence, but im going to avoid it anyways, since I dont need it anyways.

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Thanks for the support guys, Erika I appreciate your support too, just trying to get to root of these symptoms, if its alcohol then great and hopefully my symptoms will start to go away soon. But my symptoms remain on a daily basis the same: shaking, head pressure, dizzy Fairfield feeling, hard to formulate thoughts, shaky legs, eyes closing, chills/burning skin, blurry vision, pressure behind eyes, nausea, fast heart rate, insomnia, etc. again I'm real and honest and appreciate everyone's advice and reasureance. Erika if you feel I betrayed you I'm sorry, I know how much you have helped me over the past year and I am greatful, I'm not a bad guy just can't figure out why I suffer so much with the same exact symptoms everyday.

 

 

BMW

 

I told you  milion times , no drugs ,alcohol , coffe, tea, MSG , sport drinks etc etc .

My only person I trusted with benzo Profesor Pharmacy told me ,,,,,No drugs and alcohol 3 to 5 years after you quit .

I love  coffe , cappuchinos , shampaine , black russian ,  and more .

 

Guess  what ?  I cannot  have them  or  will have back w/symptoms .

 

person I know have first drink 8 years after quit benzo .

 

Benzo and booze  = bad . Simple , I dont' know how  other way I can explain this to you .

I love to have drink tooooooo. But cant  " , so simple !

Good luck

Erika

 

 

Your symptoms are from booze , this is reality . Need to quit drink for long time , no week , but months , and months !

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It seems to me everyone has had their say. Now I must ask that all comments directed toward bmw stop. This has gone beyond support and more toward judgement. What bmw decides to do now is up to him.

 

This thread will now continue as a discussion about how alcohol can effect benzo withdrawal and should no longer be directed toward any one member.

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How long will take for symptoms to calm down?

 

I don't think anyone can say for sure bmw. Everyone is different. I do agree that if your increased symptoms are due to alcohol consumption it could take quite a bit longer than 2 weeks. Just as everyone's recovery rate is different, I suspect yours will be as well.

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