Neurontin

Hi everyone,

This is my first post here. I have heard good things about this board, so I figgered it's about time I showed my face. Nice to meet you all. 

I have a question: I have been tapering Valium since September based on the Ashton Protocol, and have tried to remain true to the "taper one drug at a time" rule, but I had been put on 1600 mg Neurontin about a year ago, and had tapered down to 300 mg. A couple of weeks ago I spontaneously quit taking it, and the next day started a withdrawal phase. My therapist - who has been through benzo withdrawal herself - doesn't think quitting the Neurontin had any effect on the withdrawals symtoms that ensued (coincidentally with the stoppage?). Does anyone have any expertise on this drug that they can enlighten me one way or another?

Thanksa lot.

I will now sit down and wait for your answer coach. LOL

Tony

Hi everyone,

 

This is my first post here. I have heard good things about this board, so I figgered it's about time I showed my face. Nice to meet you all. 

 

I have a question: I have been tapering Valium since September based on the Ashton Protocol, and have tried to remain true to the "taper one drug at a time" rule, but I had been put on 1600 mg Neurontin about a year ago, and had tapered down to 300 mg. A couple of weeks ago I spontaneously quit taking it, and the next day started a withdrawal phase. My therapist - who has been through benzo withdrawal herself - doesn't think quitting the Neurontin had any effect on the withdrawals symtoms that ensued (coincidentally with the stoppage?). Does anyone have any expertise on this drug that they can enlighten me one way or another?

 

Thanksa lot.

 

I will now sit down and wait for your answer coach. LOL

 

Tony

 

hi welcome to benzo buddies - from what i have read (which isn't much) neurontin is used to control seizures and for neurological pain so stopping it would throw you for a loop - it appears to work on the central nervous system.

am i to assume yo are still on valium? if so how much?

it is real possible you are having withdrawal symptoms from neurontin - if you are having more trouble then usual sleeping and feel hyper sensitive with possible digestive problems then you are most likely have withdrawal symptoms.

are you having problems like the ones i mentioned? - have you noticed changes in other areas?

i think getting from that large of an amount to 300 was really hard work and shows some understanding and determination to get off drugs - but 300 (even tho much lower then orginal dose  - may have been a high dose to jump for.

i don't know what your symptoms are now - but if they are bearable do not go back on neurontion.

Hi Tony,

  I have no experience of neurontin, but I am not surprised that you either experienced withdrawal symptoms from it or it reved up the ones you already were experiencing from the valium taper.  The drug works on your GABA receptors, not exactly in the same way that benzos do but probably close enough that it would send you into some kind of withdrawls, especially after a cold turkey from 300 mg.  Hang around and someone else will be by. 

  Silver, read his signature, he is on 3.5 mg valium!

  XXXX

  Christine/BlueMoth

hi welcome to benzo buddies - from what i have read (which isn't much) neurontin is used to control seizures and for neurological pain so stopping it would throw you for a loop - it appears to work on the central nervous system.

 

am i to assume yo are still on valium? if so how much?

 

it is real possible you are having withdrawal symptoms from neurontin - if you are having more trouble then usual sleeping and feel hyper sensitive with possible digestive problems then you are most likely have withdrawal symptoms.

 

are you having problems like the ones i mentioned? - have you noticed changes in other areas?

 

i think getting from that large of an amount to 300 was really hard work and shows some understanding and determination to get off drugs - but 300 (even tho much lower then orginal dose  - may have been a high dose to jump for.

 

i don't know what your symptoms are now - but if they are bearable do not go back on neurontion.

Thank you Silver for your input and for your welcome. As you'll note in my signature, I am currently on 3.5 mg Valium. I just made my last cut yesterday from 4.0. I am cutting every 10 days. I never had any previous ill effects from tapering the Neurontin, which is why I have a hard time seeing that the final 30 would have this effect on me. My primary symptoms are waves of anxiety and constant profound depression. Fear has me utterly incapacitated and I have been in its grips for two and a half years now. It lets up and I do have windows but every "episode" seems to wear me down just a little more. My sleep patterns are pretty much unchanged. When I was put on Neurontin, I also was given Tegretol and Doxepin (for sleep) and put on anti depressants. Despite being told not to do it, I quit the tegretol some months back. Both it and the Neurontin were prescribed as supposedly to help me with benzo withdrawals. At the time I was given these, I think I was also on 1.5 mg Klonpin and 10 mg valium (about January of last year). I have no  plan to go back on the Neurontin. I just wanted to get a feel as to whether anyone thought it was a contibuting factor to my w/d s/x. They aren't really any worse than usual, but have been dragging on, and my last window was shorter than I am accustomed to. I suppose the thing I'd most like to know is, if I am experiencing symptons from Neurontin, should I expect them to subside soon.

Thanks for caring.

Oh and thank you Christine also. http://www.freedominmessiah.com/fine.gif

Tony

Hi TP,

I just read this  from a book called "your drug may be your problem", by Breggin, and it says "the risk of seizures needs to be considered when any any anti-convulsant drug is withdrawn, whether or not a seizure disorder was preiviously present". So that is something to keep in mind. It goes on to say "other symptoms of anticonvulsant wd may commonly include anxiety, muscle twitching, tremors, weakness, nausea, and vomiting".

Also, my NDH says "advise patient not to stop drug abruptly." But if it's been two weeks and you are doing somewhat ok, I'd say the danger has probably passed.

Linda

Hi TP,

I just read this  from a book called "your drug may be your problem", by Breggin, and it says "the risk of seizures needs to be considered when any any anti-convulsant drug is withdrawn, whether or not a seizure disorder was preiviously present". So that is something to keep in mind. It goes on to say "other symptoms of anticonvulsant wd may commonly include anxiety, muscle twitching, tremors, weakness, nausea, and vomiting".

Also, my NDH says "advise patient not to stop drug abruptly." But if it's been two weeks and you are doing somewhat ok, I'd say the danger has probably passed.

Linda

Thank you Linda. Of the symptoms you listed, anxiety i the only one I have been experiencing and that is par for the course for my benzo taper, so I'm guessing that if I didn' get the others, then the nxiety is probably not caused by Neurontin withdrawal. Since it never had any obvious ill effect going down from 1600 to 300, one hopes the final 300 didn't have any either.

Bloody doctors! "No dependency problems" they tell me. http://www.freedominmessiah.com/real_mad.gif

Thank you LIida. Of the symptoms you listed, anxiety i the only one I have been experiencing and that is par for the course for my benzo taper, so I'm guessing that if I didn' get the others, then the nxiety is probably not caused by Neurontin withdrawal. Since it never had any obvious ill effect going down from 1600 to 300, one hopes the final 300 didn't have any either.

 

Bloody doctors! "No dependency problems" they tell me. http://www.freedominmessiah.com/real_mad.gif

Not neccessarily Tony. Dropping down from a large dose, or actually jumping off to nothing can effect you much differently. As long as you had some levels of the drug in you, it may have kept wd at bay. Also, you can have only one, or many, or all wd symptoms. just depends on the person.

though we can't give you an exact time frame for it, because everyone is different,

As with all w/d symptoms from any drug, yes you should expect them to subside. 

As with all w/d symptoms from any drug, yes you should expect them to subside. 

That's what I figured. Thanks again.  http://www.freedominmessiah.com/curtsey.gif

you are taking some hefty chucks from your diazepem - you may want to slow down some should your anxiety increase.

see how you feel - sounds  like you have a plan - if you can handle it - great - if it is tooo much you may want to take smaller cuts and hold for up to a month if you have to in order to stabilize.

this is almost always some anxiety and or sleep issues - but if it is manageable that is good.

i found i had to stop drinking all caffeinated beverages and even tho i am almost three weeks off i still watch what i eat and drink.

you are taking some hefty chucks from your diazepem - you may want to slow down some should your anxiety increase.

 

see how you feel - sounds  like you have a plan - if you can handle it - great - if it is tooo much you may want to take smaller cuts and hold for up to a month if you have to in order to stabilize.

 

this is almost always some anxiety and or sleep issues - but if it is manageable that is good.

 

i found i had to stop drinking all caffeinated beverages and even tho i am almost three weeks off i still watch what i eat and drink.

Yeah - I'm following a taper plan I was given at Benzo Island. They assure me it's safe. The Doxepin helps me sleep, but I don't know if I would want to remain on that long-term.  I need my gaba receptors to heal and get my confidence back in my brain-power so I can at least do some kind of work. I don't seem to find any problem with caffeine. I honestly don't see any difference between drinking it and not ... other than maybe weight gain. LOL. What I have seen based on reading other people's experiences is that alcohol seems to be the main thing one must avoid (other than illicit drugs, or many prescribed drugs). It seems one has to be very careful with alcohol ... maybe forever.

As for holding for a month, at the Island they have discouraged going more than 2 weeks because they say one will get "tolerance withdrawals." I have to wonder now, since I'm receiving a different suggestion here. 

well lets see - you are sleeping - i would not mess with that medication for now - but you have anxiety - but it sounds like coffee is not making a difference one way or another - so even though coffee does not seem to be affecting you but you have anxiety - i would recommend you not drink it - cause anxiety is an issue and anything you can do to keep from being revved up will help.

and if you can handle larger cuts - i think that is great - large small whatever anxiety is just something we all seem to have along with bad sleep.

i love coffee but i have learned to supplement things like zen tea and chamomile tea for my coffee - and i started drinking chicory to cause it tastes like coffee but it is good for you.

walking is a good thing to do to - and a life that doesn't present too much irritation is helpful.

Ah yes - reducing stress would be nice, but we have immense financial and IRS problems which have gone unresolved for over three years since we started trying to work things out with them. It has torn me inside out and I seem incapable of handling the smallest stressors anymore.

Someone posted the following to me on another board, and I think it is so true: "It's like the process knows how to not only bring out the worst in us, but dig out every little bit of ourselves, even a slight tendency, that we aren't proud of and magnify it x1000."

I really don't know how I'm going to get my life back in order. I just have to hope for some big windows (so I can address the IRS stuff that needs to be done) and pray that things will work out. I hate to even think about the IRS and work. I used to have so much confidence and never would imagine taking time off for illness. Here I am now a shell of my former self - a quivering blob of jelly. BUT ... I'm way better than I was a year ago!  Boy, I was bad then! 

i think that is great that you can look back and see you have made some significant progress.

well when i have to i suit up and show up and manage to pull it together - i  look recked but i pull from my inner strength when i have to in order to appear competent - maybe i look like a druggie - but i look like a competent druggie.

you said we - now is a good time to be real thankful you are not going thru this alone.

i think that is great that you can look back and see you have made some significant progress.

I have to. It's the only thing that keeps my head above water. http://www.freedominmessiah.com/fine.gif

well when i have to i suit up and show up and manage to pull it together - i  look recked but i pull from my inner strength when i have to in order to appear competent - maybe i look like a druggie - but i look like a competent druggie.

I did for a year and a half, but I then I got sent for Electroshock and that did me in. Fricking barbaric way to treat people! http://www.freedominmessiah.com/real_mad.gif

now is a good time to be real thankful you are not going thru this alone.

Ain't that the truth! http://www.freedominmessiah.com/cool_smile.gif

Hey TP I have been on neurontin and klonpin for 7-8 yrs.  I was up to 900 but around 600 now.  I am really sensitive to it, so even the 100s had an effect.  The 300s certainly had an effect and I stayed on that dose for a year or two (for sleep "cohesion" - i used to wake up every 2 hours before neurontin). 

Anyway, I am reducing it by 100 mg every month... because my body is incredibly accoustomed to it.  If I miss one day, I get a migraine like you wouldn't believe.  I can still sleep (unlike missing klonopin...can't sleep at all) but the migraine is insane.  I have noticed that the 100mg cuts actually are doing something... my sleep isn't as good for the first few weeks...etc...

They make 100 mg capsules, so maybe you could go on for 200 for a few weeks and drop to 100.  i have just been on these things so long that I don't want to jump off till im on a tiny dose.  Neurontin causes way more dependency than the drug company or doctors admit.

good advice jack smaller doses would be easier to handle - and if he had to split them - they would be easier to split.

electroshock - man yep that is pretty barbaric in deed.  i am sorry you whent thru that - but deep - even deeper that is spirit - we can draw on it in a pinch - that is what keeps pushing you forward on your withdrawal.

Neurontin causes way more dependency than the drug company or doctors admit.

Hi Jack ... More than they admit? I've had two separate shrinks tell me it causes no dependency at all!  I haven't got any migraines, and as I say, all my reductions from 1600 to 300 went without a hitch. Since I've been off for two weeks now, I think I'm going take Silver's advice: "don't know what your symptoms are now - but if they are bearable do not go back on neurontion." I feel fairly confident that the w/d s/x I am experiencing are valium related. I'm a stubborn cuss. I just hope my stubbornness doesn't damage me beyond repair. My therapist wrote the following to me before my last appointment: "Sometimes being stubborn is just being pig-headed and is actually a form of self-sabotage. we will talk more tomorrow. I hope you're coming out of the woods..." - Thing is my shrink has prescribed my valium according to a very strict schedule, so that kind of restricts my ability to adjust the cuts and take some time off. Oh well. Maybe I'll take a break from tapering after my next meeting with him. I'll have to talk to him about it.

good advice jack smaller doses would be easier to handle - and if he had to split them - they would be easier to split.

 

electroshock - man yep that is pretty barbaric in deed.  i am sorry you whent thru that - but deep - even deeper that is spirit - we can draw on it in a pinch - that is what keeps pushing you forward on your withdrawal.

But you told me not to reinstate Neurontin! http://www.freedominmessiah.com/sickly.gifhttp://www.freedominmessiah.com/lol.gif

Not only is ECT barbaric, but that doc had me on MAOI's which I suspect did me more damage than the ECT. Amazing the poisons they will give folk in the name of healing. http://www.freedominmessiah.com/blx.gif

jack i am so sorry - i am getting confused following so many posts - and keeping up with so many different drugs.

i hope i am not shaking your confidence - if you are off stay off - that is my advice - jack i am so sorry.

it is hard getting off benzos - it is not unusual to have sleep problems - in fact i am having them right now.

i see i got caught up on jacks smaller dosed pills and thought it would be great to cut from that - but since you are off - do not go back on.

and please do not feel like you will lose your mind and never get it back - the set back you suffered was most likely induced by getting off of neurontin and not a separate instability - many of us feel like we are losing our minds when we decrease our drugs - that is normal - not pleasant but normal.  doctors do not understand this so they think we are crazy - i have been there many of us have been there.  but this formerly considered psychotic women is not crazy - i feel more sane then i have felt in a long time.  i was never crazy until i was put on benzos.

jack i am so sorry - i am getting confused following so many posts - and keeping up with so many different drugs.

Aw you called me Jack. http://www.freedominmessiah.com/rotfl.gif

i hope i am not shaking your confidence - if you are off stay off - that is my advice - jack i am so sorry.

Confidence? What confidence? http://www.freedominmessiah.com/lol.gif - No, I am quite determined now not to reinstate the Neurontin. I had more to write in that post, but when I went to modify the server was down, so you probably didn't get to read it all before I was able to make the changes.

i see i got caught up on jacks smaller dosed pills and thought it would be great to cut from that - but since you are off - do not go back on.

Understood! http://www.freedominmessiah.com/salute.gif

and please do not feel like you will lose your mind and never get it back

Ah well seriously that is a hard one. My deep depression and anxiety have me beating myself up pretty hard, and I am terrified that I have indeed lost it and will never get it back in time to get my life together. When I ponder it my heart goes up into my throat and I find it awfully hard to turn off those intrusive thoughts. http://www.freedominmessiah.com/cry.jpg

the set back you suffered was most likely induced by getting off of neurontin and not a separate instability

Yeah it is starting to sound like it. My shrink thinks I have an underlying anxiety disorder that the Neurontin was masking, while my therapist doesn't agree with that and thinks it's all benzos. It would seem the Neurontin may have done a number on me though, so it's benzos plus Neurontin.

many of us feel like we are losing our minds when we decrease our drugs - that is normal - not pleasant but normal.

I certainly do feel like I am losing it, if I haven't already lost it. "Not pleasant" - understatement of the year. 

doctors do not understand this so they think we are crazy

Well they wouldn't have a job if they didn't push the pills. They are just legalized drug dealers. They mean well - I like to think - but while they do help some people, they harm a lot more in the process.

i have been there many of us have been there.  but this formerly considered psychotic women is not crazy - i feel more sane then i have felt in a long time.  i was never crazy until i was put on benzos.

Yep. I believe that. Good in ya girl! 

see and i have not even had electrical shock treatment - i don't need it i am already completely fried

hey if you changed your name to jack this would all be just so much easier - or if i would just stay in bed even if i can't sleep it would be easier.

hey do you have a nick name like jack or something like that?

 

 

see and i have not even had electrical shock treatment - i don't need it i am already completely fried

 

hey if you changed your name to jack this would all be just so much easier - or if i would just stay in bed even if i can't sleep it would be easier.

 

hey do you have a nick name like jack or something like that?

I usually go by T. But heck you can call me Jack if you want. I have lost track of who I am these past couple of years, so maybe I am Jack. And I am a sleepy Jack. Off to bed shortly. God, I so do not look forward to the morning. Mornings are by far the worst. I so hope I can wake up and find I am having a window.

Seriously, call me T or Tony.

Thanks for all your help today. I am wallowing in the attention. What a nice change. http://www.freedominmessiah.com/big%20thumbs%20up.gif

Good night!

Tony

Please note, I expanded on a couple of my posts below, if you are inclined to read them.

http://www.freedominmessiah.com/tony.gif

tony - see now i can remember that.

i looked at my horoscope after my last disastrous post to see what i could do to improve my skill and it said - "be careful not to put your foot in your mouth" - i kid you not.

but tony as you get to know me - you will see that i do put my foot in my mouth often - i just shrug it off - pick myself up and dust myself off.

mornings are by far the hardest part of the day for me - kinda like i am waking up on a different planet with all the same problems - kinda like the twilight zone - everything just gets played over in my mind.  i don't know it that will ever change - but i can tell you i am better then i was by far.  my mind is clearer - and event he feet in my mouth tastes better.

and you will get better to - and i gotta say - it is really neat to enter into the last 1/4 of my life knowing i am getting better and therefore my life is getting better - cause now i am not living with one arm tied behind my back.

good night tony.

I just wish I had listened to my therapist. Surely I could've got more Valium from my doctor. I don't know if I'd be feeling better but I surely wouldn't feel worse. I thought I was making an informed decision. Yeah right. As if that is possible when one is in the throes of withdrawal. I feel utterly gob-smacked. I am hopeless and desperate. How could they do this to people? Legally making us into addicts in the name of healing? I am so enraged that they could do this to me. I don't have the words to describe the depth of my pain and disillusionment. Another miserable Christmas to look forward to.

I don't feel up to anythng at all. I'm so desperate to feel better.  :'(