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What is happening in your brain?


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I'm glad this is helping with a picture of what is going on up there.  Like you guys, I have several engineers in my family.  They have no time to listen to physiology.  The best examples for stuff like this are concrete, aren't they?  Seriously, did you EVER think there was so much junk swimming in the soup of your head? :)

 

Redeven.... LOL! You are quite the wit - even in recovery!

 

ihope - you're correct.  Each of these brain structures isn't solely an island in the water...  The hippocampus does more than just "memory".  The amygdala more than just "fear".  There are so many brain structures - and I have forgotten many of them from school.  But it makes it even more complicated to understand this whole dealio. :D  But I liked your more granular description of the subunits and how each benzo is different.  I can totally see that. 

 

Also - for several of the months I was taking Remeron, I would notice a HUGE difference in just my vision right after I dosed.  It would CORRECT right away - the color, the brightness - It was amazing. The only window I had from the visual fog/dr was after I had taken Remeron for a weeks.  I honestly, intuitively think that some of our symptoms at a certain point are VERY related to the lack of appropriate normal levels of serotonin. The Remeron wasn't affecting GABA at all - but it WAS putting serotonin into the system. And after reading about that more in depth, I learned that serotonin regulates the RELEASE of GABA and Glutamate into the system. I didn't know that before - and that shed some light on why some of my actual cognitive or "non-mood" related symptoms were improving with the Remeron. I had NO idea how very pervasive serotonin was in the system and how multi-faceted its purpose was.  I kinda mostly figured it to be basically "the happy hormone" . But I have since learned through trial-and-error with Remeron doses that serotonin does SO much more in our brains.  I have literally had my auditory function restored in 10 minutes after a VERY small Remreon dose after having not taken any for 2 weeks.  Same goes for my vision.  And Remeron acts automatically to release serotonin (not like an SSRI that only prevents the reuptake of it ). Remeron releases serotonin directly from presynaptic receptors and "turns on the faucet" releasing serotonin DIRECTLY into the brain.  And I have been able to experience firsthand the effects of that in terms of neural impact.  It's been wild. 

 

Another thing I had to "play with" all throughout this process that I have been able to "see happen" in my experience is my actual serotonin growth. I could TELL when GABA and serotonin were "coming back" along the way in this process -because my current stable dose of Remeron started to make me "too happy" along the way. That was a sign to me that my own brain was responding and readily making at least some serotonin! I'd initially have a hard time adjusting to the cut.  But in a month or so, I was again "too happy" at the reduced dose of Remeron. So, I'd cut the Remeron down a little bit and wait to allow my brain's own serotonin to come back online. In the VERY beginning of recovery, I was SO disordered that I had NO way to make this serotonin hands down. I didn't have GABA. I couldn't sleep. I was in constant Glutamate storm. I was MESSSEED UuuPPPP. :)  So accepting the Remeron as a help may have actually helped save my brain as part of a "propping up" chemically to even allow the sleep required to heal.

And ss the GABA healed and serotonin began to come back online, I'd cut a little more.  It was up and down at around 3mg for a few months.  I would cut some and realize I wasn't ready to cut more and back and forth like this. But finally I just got to a healing point at 10-11 months and was able to reduce the remaining 3mg to zero in like 2 weeks.  It was unbelievable. I am STILL lacking enough serotonin. But I am actually to a point where I am more actively making enough to sustain my system.

 

 

Point blank, guys:

 

At some point in this game - here is what STARTS to happen...

The GABA starts to come back online

The Glutamate starts to die down.

Yeah - there are some bad nights for sleep when the GABA is under fire and the Glutamate is "up in arms" and you sleep awful.

But the next night, the reverse may happen and you get AWESOME sleep.

This is where you really start to see relative windows and waves. One day GABA is great.  THe next day it's not - and glutamate is allowed to run amock and you get symptoms.  In the meantime you have serotonin trying to be made, used up, released, not released. The whole thing starts and stops.

But EVENTUALLY - and you can start to see why this takes so long - EVENTUALLY it all FINALLY starts to calm down and things are finally running and operating smoothly.

This hasn't fully happened to me yet. I'm not healed. But intuitively I'm starting to grasp that this is what is going on.

 

Again - it's the VISION we can hang onto in our minds of what is happening and going to happen that we need to cling to. Cling to the vision of it happening. Cling to the logic.  It's going to take awhile potentially. But the logic is somthing we can know in our minds - even while our brains are reacting all over the place.  This vision is what is getting me through. I feel like "I'm smarter than this process. I've got a handle on this now.  It can't beat me down, because I know what the heck is going on!". :)

 

Not that I'm confident all the time... but I'm getting more and more so.

 

Thank you all, also - for the kind things you have said. 

 

:)Parker

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I'm glad this is helping with a picture of what is going on up there.  Like you guys, I have several engineers in my family.  They have no time to listen to physiology.  The best examples for stuff like this are concrete, aren't they?  Seriously, did you EVER think there was so much junk swimming in the soup of your head? :)

 

Redeven.... LOL! You are quite the wit - even in recovery!

 

ihope - you're correct.  Each of these brain structures isn't solely an island in the water...  The hippocampus does more than just "memory".  The amygdala more than just "fear".  There are so many brain structures - and I have forgotten many of them from school.  But it makes it even more complicated to understand this whole dealio. :D  But I liked your more granular description of the subunits and how each benzo is different.  I can totally see that. 

 

Also - for several of the months I was taking Remeron, I would notice a HUGE difference in just my vision right after I dosed.  It would CORRECT right away - the color, the brightness - It was amazing. The only window I had from the visual fog/dr was after I had taken Remeron for a weeks.  I honestly, intuitively think that some of our symptoms at a certain point are VERY related to the lack of appropriate normal levels of serotonin. The Remeron wasn't affecting GABA at all - but it WAS putting serotonin into the system. And after reading about that more in depth, I learned that serotonin regulates the RELEASE of GABA and Glutamate into the system. I didn't know that before - and that shed some light on why some of my actual cognitive or "non-mood" related symptoms were improving with the Remeron. I had NO idea how very pervasive serotonin was in the system and how multi-faceted its purpose was.  I kinda mostly figured it to be basically "the happy hormone" . But I have since learned through trial-and-error with Remeron doses that serotonin does SO much more in our brains.  I have literally had my auditory function restored in 10 minutes after a VERY small Remreon dose after having not taken any for 2 weeks.  Same goes for my vision.  And Remeron acts automatically to release serotonin (not like an SSRI that only prevents the reuptake of it ). Remeron releases serotonin directly from presynaptic receptors and "turns on the faucet" releasing serotonin DIRECTLY into the brain.  And I have been able to experience firsthand the effects of that in terms of neural impact.  It's been wild. 

 

Another thing I had to "play with" all throughout this process that I have been able to "see happen" in my experience is my actual serotonin growth. I could TELL when GABA and serotonin were "coming back" along the way in this process -because my current stable dose of Remeron started to make me "too happy" along the way. That was a sign to me that my own brain was responding and readily making at least some serotonin! I'd initially have a hard time adjusting to the cut.  But in a month or so, I was again "too happy" at the reduced dose of Remeron. So, I'd cut the Remeron down a little bit and wait to allow my brain's own serotonin to come back online. In the VERY beginning of recovery, I was SO disordered that I had NO way to make this serotonin hands down. I didn't have GABA. I couldn't sleep. I was in constant Glutamate storm. I was MESSSEED UuuPPPP. :)  So accepting the Remeron as a help may have actually helped save my brain as part of a "propping up" chemically to even allow the sleep required to heal.

And ss the GABA healed and serotonin began to come back online, I'd cut a little more.  It was up and down at around 3mg for a few months.  I would cut some and realize I wasn't ready to cut more and back and forth like this. But finally I just got to a healing point at 10-11 months and was able to reduce the remaining 3mg to zero in like 2 weeks.  It was unbelievable. I am STILL lacking enough serotonin. But I am actually to a point where I am more actively making enough to sustain my system.

 

 

Point blank, guys:

 

At some point in this game - here is what STARTS to happen...

The GABA starts to come back online

The Glutamate starts to die down.

Yeah - there are some bad nights for sleep when the GABA is under fire and the Glutamate is "up in arms" and you sleep awful.

But the next night, the reverse may happen and you get AWESOME sleep.

This is where you really start to see relative windows and waves. One day GABA is great.  THe next day it's not - and glutamate is allowed to run amock and you get symptoms.  In the meantime you have serotonin trying to be made, used up, released, not released. The whole thing starts and stops.

But EVENTUALLY - and you can start to see why this takes so long - EVENTUALLY it all FINALLY starts to calm down and things are finally running and operating smoothly.

This hasn't fully happened to me yet. I'm not healed. But intuitively I'm starting to grasp that this is what is going on.

 

Again - it's the VISION we can hang onto in our minds of what is happening and going to happen that we need to cling to. Cling to the vision of it happening. Cling to the logic.  It's going to take awhile potentially. But the logic is somthing we can know in our minds - even while our brains are reacting all over the place.  This vision is what is getting me through. I feel like "I'm smarter than this process. I've got a handle on this now.  It can't beat me down, because I know what the heck is going on!". :)

 

Not that I'm confident all the time... but I'm getting more and more so.

 

Thank you all, also - for the kind things you have said. 

 

:)Parker

 

Parker glad the Remeron helped you. 5 months out I took 30 mgs and it was just like when I was on pheno for my cold turkey. It was horrible. Brain all swimmy, hung over, flashing lights when my eyes were closed, tired but wired could not sleep. It was horrible. I was afraid to try it again, although I know that some of the problem was the high dose. I was told I had to take that much.

 

I have thought about trying it again to see if it will lift this black cloud in my soul. Doc gave me celexa but very hesitant to try.

 

Glad you are doing better.

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Oh yes, RFB - I definitely think that your dose of Remeron being high might have been part of the challenge.

 

Remeron acts on:

-histamine receptors (makes you TIRED)

- serotonin  - releases serotonin DIRECTLY into the system right away

- norepinephrine (which is the brain's 'adrenaline" - also known as "noradrenaline") (what? WHY would you want THIS??)

 

From what I have read on psychiatry boards and from message boards (and this is by no means "research" but it makes intuitve sense) - is that from about 15mg of Remeron and LOWER - the "histamine" effects can tend to "overpower" the norepinephrine effects of Remeron. But at that 15mg or less, you still get the serotonin benefit.

HOWEVER - at 15mg and HIGHER doses, the histamine effect is the same , but the norepinephrine comes in STRONGER and you get a net effect of a BIG REVVING. Great if you have typical depression. But NOT great in benzo recovery!

 

In the begining of recovery - 15mg of Remeron did nothing for me in terms of mood. I was SEVERELY depressed. It let me eat and sleep. That was IT. The serotonin contribution it made could simply not help me feel ANY better at that point.

But after 3 months, only 11mg of Remeron made me EXTREMELY happy. THAT much healing had occured that LESS Remeron was making me high as a kite. Um - that was now too much. So I started to cut it down.

 

Fast forward - at 10 months I was high as a kite on only 3 MG of Remeron!  The more healing that occured, the less REmeron I needed to feel giddy and like I was the happiest person on earth. Obviously that was not my goal. :) So I kept cutting it.  ANd finally I didn't need it.

But that Remeron is POWERFUL.

 

My advice at this point if you DO try it is to try ONLY 3.75 or less (that's only 1/4th of a pill).  That may be ALL you need. Try that for a good 2 weeks. That may be all you need to feel wonderful this far out.  Others have taken it too and stayed on this amount for some time after recovery.  ALSO - be prepared to be a little overtired for a week or so -but your body will adjust to the histamine effect quickly and the serotonin will kick in fast.  This was my experience.  OBVIOUSLY talk to your doctor - etc.etc. etc. I am not a doctor. etc. etc. etc.

 

Finally - you CAN have Remeron made into a liquid at a compounding pharmacy - I did. That way I can measure 3.75 ml of liquid instead of dry cutting the Remeron into 1/4th of a pill.  That made my dosing of it very accurate since there was no way I needed more than 1/4th.  If I really wanted to feel good, I'd just have stayed on that dose! :) I just felt ready to try to go without it, but other buddies HAVE stayed on it longer - and if I hadn't had that jump at 11 months, I would STILL be on it.  And without fear or worry. 

So if you do decide to try it, realize you can stop it if you hate it. And that you may not need but very little of it this far out.  ;)

 

Hope that helps. :)

 

:)Parker

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Parker I'm echoing the responses made by everyone here.  Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge In layman's terms.

 

Have you ever thought about expanding your thoughts into book form?  "The Dummies Guide to Benzo Withdrawal".  :).  Then, a documentary........fan club and a talk show next ;D. (I'm actually serious especially about the book!)

 

:thumbsup:

Liv

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LOL - Hey Live....

 

Thank you for your encouragement!! :)

 

I haven't thought about a book ....

 

BUT... I HAVE thought about doing a huge multi-media presentation that you can WATCH  - like the Discovery Channel and SEE the neurons and SEE the GABA and how it works while hearing me talk.

 

I used to design and author multi-media training as part of my job - and it was a much easier way for many people to learn. Rather than "reading" the information, it is "show and tell" And I think that may be very powerful for families, doctors, individuals.

Rather than read about all this GABA, why not watch it and SEE how it is released between neurons...

 

It is a big undertaking, but I can design and produce this including audio all from home.  And YES - I am thinking about doing it.

 

Thank you for the vote of confidence!!

 

:)Parker

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Parker, i think you have a very well ordered brain that you were able to track the changes in your serotonin levels so well.

 

Interesting about the Remeron, I found that I didn't tolerate the anticholinergic effects even at 1/4 tab but I didn't persist for a week & found the tablet cutting hit or miss so that's a great idea about compounding.  Thankfully, I no longer need any meds but it's well worth others considering as Remeron seems to be one of the more benign ADs in terms of side effects.

 

You are a very effective communicator so not surprised to hear about your day job.

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WOW!!  Great read Parker.....long but well worth it!!  I do have severe cog probs so it took awhile...i would love to share this with my Siblings...they just dont get it and it hurts me so.

 

Much healing and peace.

 

BB.

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Yes Parker :thumbsup: that would be incredible!!!! It could be mandatory viewing for all benzo prescribing doctors.... Let us know when it's on :)........ You already have your fan club!
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thank you parker!  we all just want to know what the heck is going on with our brains, this is so helpful.  i have been doing lots of reading here & there over time trying to understand, and i think i kinda had the overall picture, but i don't have the background in neuroscience so your info here really helps bring it all together.  thanks!  :)

 

Zeek

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Parker, i think you have a very well ordered brain that you were able to track the changes in your serotonin levels so well.

 

Interesting about the Remeron, I found that I didn't tolerate the anticholinergic effects even at 1/4 tab but I didn't persist for a week & found the tablet cutting hit or miss so that's a great idea about compounding.  Thankfully, I no longer need any meds but it's well worth others considering as Remeron seems to be one of the more benign ADs in terms of side effects.

 

You are a very effective communicator so not surprised to hear about your day job.

 

Thanks, ihope, but just so I'm really honest... I was a CRAZY mess cognitively. I mean - NUTS.  If I didn't write down all these symptoms every day and my Remeron doses, I'd NEVER be able to have made any associations or comment here. I had to track this stuff on paper to even remember anything or see the trends to formulate an opinion- because I couldn't remember YESTERDAY most of the time in this experience.  And I still can't some of the time.  :D

 

Also - I probably wasn't clear.  I don't have a day job anymore. I'm a stay-home mom. But I'll tell you - there is NO WAY I could have worked an outside job in recovery.  NO WAY. I was almost dead.  I couldn't even get out of bed. And to be honest, I was a lbare bones mom, too! My kids watched TV and played computer like - ALL YEAR until just recently. It felt horrible, but I just couldn't do anything. But the thing I learned that was GOOD is that kids are resilient. Neither of them even remember this and are no worse off for the wear for watching all that TV.  I learned to relax a little bit as a mom in this.  The world hasn't gone to hell in a handbasket while I am healing - and that was also a good lesson for me.  It's all not as dire as I was making it out to be. And I will carry that overall lesson with me back to my life...

 

:)Parker

 

 

 

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Dear Parker,

 

As those that posted before me, WOW!!!  I am so thankful to you and your education, your communication abilities.  WOW - you have come a long way in your healing, I'm so happy for you.

 

I have copied your postings to my documents, I have copied and sent out 5 emails of your explanation and I have printed a copy to keep at my fingertips. I plan to take a copy to my psy, who I was thinking of never returning to her for she offers me nothing - I only started going to her after my c/t and after I got on Lyrica.  I plan to take a copy to my DO that I'm to see in a couple of week for a physical, and to my counselor - who does seem to understand this benzo recovery more than my drs do and I know she would be so open to reading your words.  Thank you, so much for your message.

 

I truly hope you do make a multi - media presentation.  I'm a very visual person since my c/t so to be able to see and hear how this affects the brain and how the brain does heal would be a fantastic tool for not only myself but I know thousands of people would benefit from it.

 

I'm tapering off Lyrica, I was put on it at 4 months out of my c/t. I began my water titration at 10 months and I am now 13 months free.  Do you know if Lyrica affects serotonin like Remeron? I just don't understand these medications, and have trouble trying to get my head around them. The way you described Remeron and how you needed less and less as your brain produced more serotonin was so clear. I wish that could be put out there for others to be able to benefit from this knowledge. Just think of all the people that aren't being lowered as they need less and end up probably having such negative affects, maybe even effecting their healing time.

 

Thanks again for your taking your time and sharing this post with us.  I can't express how appreciative I am to your words.  I don't fear my remaining sxs at this time.

 

Healing does happen in time.

Sally  :angel:

 

This is going to be one of those threads that doesn't get buried. It will be around for a longgggg time, and viewed by many.  How exciting your words having such a positive impact on so many lives.

 

 

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Parker...I am adding my voice to the choir of applause.  Truly between this one and the other one I lifted for my blog (New Life Is Here)..you have the beginnings of a Manual of Benzo Recovery.  Blessings, NL
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Parker...Thanks so much for your very informative post.

 

Do you have any theories as to why some of us are unable to take vitamins? I have tried the magnesium glycinate, that you now take, on and off for several months. I only took 100 mg. and it would rev me up horribly for at least 12 hours. If I took it before bed I would get zero sleep. The same is true with omega 3's for me.

 

I took these with no problem pre benzos.

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Wow, Parker, your post was my morning read and I want to thankyou for writing this :thumbsup:.

While I was tapering I would never have been able to read even 1/8 of that as it was just too much to take in but now I read through the whole post and was able to understand and comprehend it all which proves to me just how much my brain has healed already. :)

I am also going to use the word RECOVERY now post benzo instead of withdrawal to describe what I am dealing with as it is easier to visualize a brain in recovery after your insightful post :smitten:

LG

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Hey Parker....I was prescribed Remeron but it was a high dose and the Psych was a nut job (pun intended).....so I never took it.

 

Considering it again and starting up with a new Pscyh.  Any suggestions.....my sx are more physical than mental....severe tinnitus, slow gut, dizzy and insomnia.  Prior to being put on Benzos I never did well with SSRI or AD.  Cymbalta reved me up but I was exhausted....hated the way I felt.

 

Need something to help we with these horrendous sx....I am 5 months off of K.

 

Thx.

 

BB.

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Parker...Thanks so much for your very informative post.

 

Do you have any theories as to why some of us are unable to take vitamins? I have tried the magnesium glycinate, that you now take, on and off for several months. I only took 100 mg. and it would rev me up horribly for at least 12 hours. If I took it before bed I would get zero sleep. The same is true with omega 3's for me.

 

I took these with no problem pre benzos.

 

Hi Hockey Boy,

 

Your question is one I have wondered about a lot, too.  The same thing happened to me in recovery.  Or at least I think it did.  I didn't try the magensium earlier on - but I did try the omegas with d3 and couldn't seem to tolerate them until about month 10 - but then they helped me immensely. The reason I say "didn't seem to" is that I am never sure along the way if what was happening to me was directly the result of a supplement I tried or just the random nature of crappy symptoms. :)  I did try a few things - but none really seemed to help me until I got far enough along.  It has ALWAYS been trial-and-error for me.  I think I tried omegas about once every 2 months - and if i couldn't hack it - I didn't continue.  But I'm like you - I used to take them before benzos with great success - so I just kept trying.

 

I have a friend outside of the forum who healed at 14 months.  She and I spoke on the phone and she told me around 12 months is when she started taking vitamins again.  I sorta pieced together ideas along the way of what I could maybe try and when I might try them - however, I never really knew until I took a vitamin what was going to happen.  The "good" news is- (I thought) - if I try it and can't tolerate it, it's going to be out of my system in a few hours - and it's pretty harmless.  So I just went with that idea and kept resting and kept going. (That's what I"m still doing.)

 

I'm sorry the magnesium and omegas aren't working for you.  I understand.  I'm curious, too. The magnesium glycinate....are you taking the Doctor's Best brand I"m taking? Or is it another brand?  If it's a different brand, I can't speak for how I might have reacted to that - only to the brand I'm taking. 

But the other thing I want to know is if you ARE taking the Dr.'s Best brand of Magnesium, does your bottle have "BioPerene" in it?  The reason I ask is that this product USED to have this "BioPerene" as an additive listed in the ingredients. It is a "black pepper" substace that is supposed to help things be more easily absorbed and a LOT of people had an issue with reacting to it - so from what I read on their website, they took it OUT of the product. I used to use this brand a few years ago when it had BioPerene and stopped it because I was one of the ones reacting to it. But now that the product is WITHOUT BioPerene, I can take it just fine.  Wasn't sure if that had any impact for you...

 

All I can say for a theory is that we are all different, and this healing is so unique.  Obviously nobody seems to react the same to ANYTHING! :)  We can all take the same benzo for the same time and wind up all over the map. Extrapolating from that -I guess the whole healing process is going to continue to be a mystery.  As much as we react to the SMALLEST things in recovery - probably our DIETS even make an impact on symptoms in ways we can't know.  I have friends in recovery who are mostly vegetarians, while I eat meat and drink milk every day.  I even wonder if THAT makes a difference!?

 

Maybe as time goes on you can keep trying some of the things you were able to take the past and just see how you do?  If it's not time yet, I'm guessing your body will let you know. :)  Listening to my own body and realizing that THIGNS CHANGE in recovery has been the biggest help to me.  So- if you can't tolerate it now - you likely will be able to soon.  (This goes for medication, too - some things I don't think we can tolerate at different phases of recovery - or they dont' have an impact - whereas later on, they may be far more helpful.  Like my Remeron - early on - the WHOLE pill did nothing to help me feel better.  But 8 months later, I was amazingly happy and felt great on only 1/4th of a pill.  The only guess I have is that early on, it would have taken an act of God to help me feel better and no medication was going to be able to accomplish that.  But as I healed, less and less Remeron became more and more effective for my mood.  The theory?  I HEALED.  And my own brain was taking up for a good chunk of function. I have learned through trial-and-error, controlled factors, and taking good notes that the trend is that over time - I can tolerate more of EVERYTHING. I'm guessing this is probably going to happen for all of us in each of our body's own timetable.

 

Do you have any ideas to share or guesses?  All of our information together is better than just one of us. :)

 

:)Parker

 

 

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And just to think -- this whole time -- I thought my brain had been hijacked by garden gnomes.  I like your theory a bit better.  ::)
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Hey Parker....I was prescribed Remeron but it was a high dose and the Psych was a nut job (pun intended).....so I never took it.

 

Considering it again and starting up with a new Pscyh.  Any suggestions.....my sx are more physical than mental....severe tinnitus, slow gut, dizzy and insomnia.  Prior to being put on Benzos I never did well with SSRI or AD.  Cymbalta reved me up but I was exhausted....hated the way I felt.

 

Need something to help we with these horrendous sx....I am 5 months off of K.

 

Thx.

 

 

 

BB.

 

Hey Betty -

 

I don't know about the Remeron. I hope I"m not giving off the impression that I know more than I do. I do not! :)

All I can share is from my own experience. 

 

My only ideas are to start SMALL with it - since it's a med that you CAN start small with.  (You can't cut a lot of pills - but you can cut Remeron -and may not need much at all.)  You can even talk to the doctor about having it made into a liquid by taking it to a compounding pharmacy and having the script read "1mg per 1ml" - That way, it's a 1:1 correlation.  If you want to take 3.75mg of Remeron (1/4th of a dry pill) - you take 3.75ml of liquid and it's the same amount. That made it easy for me to measure and use only what I needed to accurately.

 

If you are interested in it for insomnia - talk to your doctor about that.  From what I've read on the Internet - lots of people (not benzo affected) take Remeron for insomnia. But less can be more. So IF you go this route - you might talk to your doctor about only taking as much as you feel you need. 

 

But BEYOND that - I don't sleep GREAT every night either. I'm still recovering, too.  So - you might have just as much benefit by staying the course.  Just something to think about.

 

Remeron CAN be constipating- so if you're having that issue already - you may not want to add to it. 

 

I have somewhat slow-gut, too.  I  started taking a probiotic with 13 billion strain load about 3 weeks ago and at this point in recovery, THAT made a world of difference for me.  Ironic, because in early recovery, I had loose stools EVERY day. And now I'm rebounding into slow-gut territory. (LOL - TMI)  But the probiotic is helping. I have read that a probiotic of the right strains and potency changes the acid/base of your intestines and gets the movement going. That has been the case for me. I take Vitamin SHoppe brand Ultimate 10 with 13 Billion.  Not sure if that could help you or not.  I also just started drinking coffee again every morning - and that has helped me "get things going" once a day.  But no WAY could I tolerate coffee a few months ago.  So it goes to show you that it's definitely trial-and-error.

 

Betty - I hope this helps.  If it were me, I'd try the LEAST medication I could in recovery (since my goal is not to be on anything). But that is MY goal.  From what I've read, many people take 1/4th Remeron for years and years for chronic insomnia (which I didn't have prior to benzos).  Also- there have been studies with women in perimenopause who took Remeron for symptoms and for insomnia caused by hormonal changes. I'm not in that category yet, but IF that happens to me as I age and go through hormonal changes, I have filed Remeron away as a "go to" if I'm completely unable to sleep.  Hopefully that won't happen! ;)

 

:)Parker

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And just to think -- this whole time -- I thought my brain had been hijacked by garden gnomes.  I like your theory a bit better.  ::)

 

Oh crap! I forgot to mention the gnomes!! I need to add that in!!  ;) 

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I got a great PM from a buddy asking "What about the physical symptoms of pain?" - and think it deserves some theoretical attention.

 

I want to take some time to add some theories about PAIN and physical symptoms such as burning, akathisia, and tingling, prickling, and things that happen during recovery of this nature.

 

I will also add this as an addendum to the original post on page 1.

 

First off, let it be said that I can only "theorize" as to this, - I am not a doctor.  But I DO think logical theories are helpful because they give us a story and mindful logic to cope with in the MEANTIME as we are going through this.

 

So these are multiple sources of information that I'm tying together - some are from nerve regeneration, and some are from what we know about "how the brain works".  And some or ALL of this is likely going on when it comes to pain and skin/muscle sensations:

 

First off - I think a good quote comes from a Plastic Surgery practice that has published things on "nerve regeneration after injury". 

 

The quote follows:

 

"The usual events associated with normal nerve regeneration can be painful. As the regenerating ends of the nerve, called sprouts, travel, they make contact with each other and with structural proteins. The neural impulses generated by this activity may be interpreted by your brain as pain. It should be expected that for the time period associated with nerve regeneration there may be pain sufficient to need therapy and/or pain medication. Just understanding that this is expected to occur, and is "good pain'; or pain for a good reason, is enough to help many people adjust to its presence.  This condition is not just one of pain, but is associated with over activity of the sympathetic nervous system, so that the area of pain is a different color, like pink or purple, and is usually a different temperature, like cooler, than the surrounding non-painful skin."  http://www.riversongplasticsurgery.com/pdfs/nerve_injury_nerve_reconstruction_recovery.pdf

 

Well- this article isn't talking about "benzo - related nerve damage. It's talking about nerve damage caused by physical trauma of crushing, cutting, or compressing nerves. But what can we glean from it nonetheless?

 

We can assume that if the sympathetic nervous system is involved in the presence of pain related to healing nerves - AND IT IS- that it is also NORMAL for us to have pain as we are undergoing healing.

 

When I was in earliest recovery, I would often get out of the shower and have pink spots all over my feet and my abdomen. At first they were bright pink for about 2 months - and then they faded out and I don't have them anymore.  I have no idea what they were - but they were NOT there 12 days prior to my rapid taper - and then they showed up.  The spots weren't symmetrical - they followed no pattern, but they were alway in the same place on my skin.  And only after getting out of the shower.  It is easy to see how the nervous system could be involved in skin redness, irritation, and weird feelings associated with recovery.

 

Likewise, throughout recovery, I've had and continue to have cooling, burning, prickling and occasional stabbing sensations. I've had it feel like my skin was "wet" when there was no water on it.  Again, though. This is all normal - and like the quote says above.."Just understanding that this is expected to occur, and is "good pain'; or pain for a good reason, is enough to help many people adjust to its presence."  It doesn't make the pain FEEL any better in the moment, but it does help us not to become anxious about it. It's normal.  And it's a sign of healing.

 

What about akathisia?

Well  - from the reading, the exact cause of akathisia is not 100% conclusive, but it seems to be related to dopaminergic and/or noradrenergic activity in the brain  (dopamine and norepinephrine or noradrenaline as it is also called). These are just neurotransmitters - and it doesn't look (to me) to be exactly conclusive WHY this happens - but akathisia can happen after the use of many psychoactive drugs- not just benzos - and likely because anything that alters brain chemistry can alter dopemine and norepinephrine. So - okay. That makes sense.  We all took "brain altering" drugs - and now some of us have akathisia.  Guess what?  It seems pretty normal!  It's not fun. But it's normal.  And it can come and go and then go away eventually.  For me, I didn't get akathisia at all until month 8. It was a surprise.  It was intense and awful. But it passed in a few weeks. Since then, I have had it off and on - but not to that degree.  And now - it's mostly just annoying.  Something as simple as a good hard cry in the bathtub can COMPLETELY remove it at times.  And other times, I just have to wait for a wave to pass. But all in all, from all this information - it's normal. And the fact that it's coming and going and I'm getting hit here and there - it's a sign that the wheels are turning up there in the noggin - and things are shifting and attempting to rebalance.  So if we can keep that quote in mind - it's normal - and while the sensation itself is very uncomfortable - if not painful - it can be regarded as a "good pain" if we are able to recognize that our feeling it means we have a brain and nerves that are regaining their abilities to function.

 

Likewise, as a scab heals over a wound, the new skin formin underneath can become "itchy". Why does this occur? Why does a scab itch?

 

"The itch of a healing wound is caused by the growth of new cells underneath the old scab. New skin cells would be growing underneath, and as they form a new layer of skin, then the scab becomes more tightly stretched over this zone of activity. This can make it feel itchy. The itch sensation for burn survivors may be a tingling feeling caused by nerves re-growing, or from dry skin caused by the lack of natural oil production since oil glands may have been damaged or destroyed by the burn. As the nerves grow and start to receive and send messages, they may create that itchy feeling. The skin in this area will be a lot less thick than everywhere else, so these new nerve cells will be under a lot more pressure. Itching is a sign of healing." (Mayo Clinic)

 

As we can surmise, the umpteen bajillion sensation we have going on are not 100% conclusive in their origins....HOWEVER...

There IS a trend.

 

From what it seems like from all the reading...

NERVE REGENERATION CAN CAUSE UNPLEASANT SENSATIONS. As counterintuitive as it is,  HEALING CAN FEEL LIKE HURT. :)

But it's NOT further hurt or damage. It's the REVERSAL of damage. 

 

Um  - yeah - okay. Great - but what do I DO about it.

 

Pretty much the things that I have discovered that help through this healing are to "CONFUSE" the nerves as much as possible, IF possible. 

What? Confuse the nerves?

 

You know how you get a cut or an insect bite and you immediately press on it to make it feel less painful? What you are doing when you press or squeeze the area is "desensitizing' the entire skin region of the cut by applying pressure to ALL the nerves in the area. That way, the ONE sensation of pain from the cut isn't the only thing your brain is feeling.  The pressure from pushing down on  ALL the nerves in the area helps to send multiple sensation to the brain to "counteract" the pain sensation.  And it works.

Similarly, other things can help "confuse" nerves:

-Heat

-Cold

-Deep Pressure

- Massage

-creams like "Icy Hot" with menthol

 

All of these things have helped me cope in recovery.

 

Let me take it one by one:

 

Heat: I took and STILL take hot baths almost every day. In the peak of akathisia, I lived in the tub. :)  As hot as I could stand it really helped me. All the heat was "overregistering" in my brain and I was unable to feel the akathisia as much when in the tub. It was confusing the nerve signal and it was temporary relief.  I hated those days. But I got through them.  Likewise, a heating pad for pain was my friend a lot of the time. 

 

-Cold -  I used a cold washcloth on burning skin - and on my face and hands - and kept dipping it in ice water and applying it.  This is an easy one, but it helped. I had a wave with 3 days of "fireface" last month and all I could do was apply the washcloth, lay there and think about how "this is healing" and keep going. But the wave passed.

 

Deep Pressure  I use a 15 pound weighted blanket to sleep. I have for YEARS. I ordered it online. It has many pockets with little plastic balls equally distributed to create a very heavy blanket that creates "deep pressure". This kind of pressure is calming for anyone's nervous system. Occupational Therapists use it for children with autism, but people with anxiety can benefit from sleeping with one. And in recovery, I was glad to have it.  I used it often together with a heating pad.  It took the edge off just long enough. 

 

Massage This one CAN be helpful - but sometimes not.  I used to ask my husband just to "press down" on my head or my legs.  Just press there. Don't rub.  My skin hurt too much to rub, but the deep pressure from pressing was helpful. Other times, the actual massage was a help for sore muscles.  I was too agoraphobic to schedule a REAL massage. LOL. But just this help from my family was nice to have.

 

Creams You're going to laugh, but there was a day that I put Vick's VapoRub on my face because my face was so HOT!  I figured if this is safe for my baby's skin, it's probably okay to try it on my face.  It worked! Oh man - my face felt SO good all day.  I used that for a few days until the wave passed.  I have also tried "Icy Hot" on my back when it was sore.  Things like this work on the same principal to "confuse the nerves".  If your nerves are too busy feeling the heat/cool of menthol, they cannot simultaneously feel "pain". So for a short time, the pain is not "felt" even though the "soreness" is technically still there.

 

All of these are ways I have coped.  I'm sure there are others you guys have used!! :)

 

The broad idea here is that

1) Healing is happening.

2) The sensations that feel like injury are NOT injury. They are the CORRECTION of nerve injury.  They just "fire off" as they heal.

3) We can use some things to cope.

4) It's going away in time.

 

I know this is not a "fix" to the feelings.  There is nothing anyone could say to me while I was IN pain that made the PAIN better.  All I could do was cope and cry and try to get through it.  But knowing it's normal and that I'm not getting worse; I'm getting better - is always something I benefit from knowing. 

 

I still get these symptoms - and I'll be SOOOOOO glad when they are gone.

 

Thanks to the Benzo Buddy that brought this up.  ;)

 

:)Parker

 

 

 

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[cf...]

Charlie, my own personal belief about that has always been based on the fact that some of us are born with much more sensitive nervous systems than others. This is a scientific fact, and these sensitive individuals are found in all species of mammals. I know I am most definitely one of these "highly sensitive people." I always have been, and it has never been pleasant. Couple that with yet MORE nervous system sensitivity, and well... you get the idea. I imagine those whose nervous systems are naturally "tougher" (only for lack of a better word) would do better. Unfortunately, I think we sensitive people are by nature more likely to need to be prescribed these drugs.

 

Yep holly this is true. I'm one of the more sensitive ones..

 

Thanks parker, this helped A LOT!

 

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