Colin, I'm confused!

Hi Colin (and all moderators and anyone reading this),

 

I just saw your site's equivalency table, and while I thought that Ashton's belief's were not disputed, I see that I was incorrect. After being yanked off the Klonopin (2mg) cold turkey in April, my doctor flipped out when he saw my condition nine days later (although I'd been a mess for week), and agreed to switch me (not cross me over, gradually) to 40mg of Valium. Should I have been placed on less? I'm very concerned, as not everyone agrees with Ashton. I'm assuming she's correct, though, because if I'm doing this poorly, I suppose I'd be doing even worse had I been placed on a lower amount of Valium.

 

I'm just very frustrated because although I'm now at 18mg from 40mg, I'm still at a higher dose of Valium than that at which most people begin after crossing over!

 

I'd appreciate very much any opinions you have on the whole equivalency issue.

 

Thanks,

Jillie

I've replied to your other post. I don't think you need to be concerned. I'll get back to that chart in the next or so.

Ashton's equivalency tables are most accurate it seems.  Here in the US for instance they say 1 mg ativan equals 5 mg valium.  Other places put the equivalency at 1:2.5 which is grossly wrong.  I have done research where the US got their equivalency tables and was stopped midtrack at a drug company out of Japan.  There is no clinical research I have been able to find (and I have looked hard and long) that shows where the US got there tables.  Ashton on the other hand through clinical trial , used diazepine substitution with people on Ativan or lorezapam.  I believe the equivalency was approximately 1:9.8 and thus she rounded out to 10, that is for ativan.  I just got a phone call...I'll tell you later how she got the equivalencies, but be assured these were through clinical studies based on actual patients.  Janus

 

PS  She did allow for some differences as people did vary.  She said this was approximate. Again, I stand to be corrected if I am wrong.  But I will write further to tell you how she arrived at her data, and thus the manual equivalencies. 

Jillie,

 

I wouldn't worry too much about being on 18 mg of valium.  My crossover from xanex was supposed to be at 80 mg of valium (which would have been about right).  I'm on 25 mg now and feel horrible (crossed over and reduced way too quickly).  Just sending everybody a warning about not going down too quickly.  Much better to be a turtle taperer and eventually get off these lousy pills than try to be the hare and never get the job done.  I'm now convinced that if it takes me up to a full year, it will be worth it to go at a snails pace and succeed rather than be overzealous and fail again and again.

 

Have a great day!

Janus, I would be interested in hearing more about the equivalencies.

 

Therese

 

P.S. Summer, I was a turtle taperer...I just couldn't go any faster. I was psychologically worn out trying to keep it together. Give yourself some time to stabilize. It's tough to learn the hard way!

Therese/Colin,

 

How long does it take to stabilize?  What does being stable feel like?  Is it when you can sleep or when you can go out without having a panic attack?

 

Is it when you are not anxious all the time, just most of the time?

 

Just like to know a definition of what stable is.  Am not anxious to go down on my 25 mg of valium.  Unsure whether to go up or stay the same.  Been on the 25 mg for 6 days now. 

 

When do jelly legs disappear?

Hi Summer,

 

All we mean by feeling stable is that you feel relatively OK, and have largely recovered from the last cut. We can usually expect some increase in withdrawal symptoms after a new cut; you just need to allow enough time for the effects of that cut to subside. We do not expect that you will feel great, just that you feel relatively OK. Just don't push harder with the taper rate than your body can adjust.

Hi, Jillie,

 

For me, "stable" meant that the symptoms that had flared up with the last cut were much less, down to my "normal" withdrawal level (though they certainly were not gone!). "Stable" for me also meant that I felt emotionally and physically able to handle what the next cut was going to do to me. So if you are having enough symptoms that you dread your next cut because you're already dealing with as much as you can handle, you're not what I would consider stable.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Therese