Please clarify "Kindling"

Hi Pretty,

This may sound tough given where you are at, but it might be helpful to find a therapist that understands benzo withdraw and substance abuse issues in general.  finding someone who understands what you are going through may help you in working through some of the problems your having at home. 

re: human agency to call.  I would tend to agree with you that getting some local government agency involved would probably not be very productive.  I can't think of any that can step in and help someone in a WD situation. 

Hang in there! over time things will improve when you come off.

Best,

Kitco

Hi Kitco,

everyone is saying that things will get better once i am off.

i've been off benzo's for 4 months now.

so not sure what everyone means?

am i kindling right now/ because my brain is still hissing, cooking, traveling, hallucinating.

is this normal?

i would like to know of what kindling is? i think i am kindling.

but now not sure if this is all a normal withdrawal from a harsh cold turkey?

pretty

Hi Pretty,  it simply takes more than 4 months for most people after a cold turkey to really feel better. How long it will be for you is impossible for me to tell. 

Re: kindling.  Kindling is not a symptom, but rather a process that occurs when someone has been addicted to benzos. Stops taking them for a time, and then goess back on. 

Re: hissing; cooking; hallucinating - is that normal.

This sounds pretty severe and outside my personal realm of experience. I think over time, what is happening to you as a result of benzo withdraw will subside or mitigate. That said, If you feel you have become fully delusional - then perhaps it's time to contact a medical authority and explain your circumstances.  You may require some sort of in patient treatment.

I wish I could be of more help!

Take care,

Kitco

i am a kindler.

i first got off benzo's in 1995 and i didn't know anything about the withdrawals.

but i didn't have any of the brain symptoms i am having now and i was in a sober living home (a thing that i am thinking about doing again, since my circumstances are so bad here at home)

but anyway, so that was the first time i quit the benzo's after many withdrawals of benzo's.

i have done so many benzo withdrawals. i know i just said that but i am saying again because i have done so many!!

i always use to say in AA meetings that i went in that sober living house that

'i came to earth to withdrawal from benzodiazepines'--now isn't that a little sad? i must change that pattern.

so i had 7 years off of the benzo's. and then i had the weirdest neurological symptoms that doctor's called MS/weird lightening bolt type sensations all down my legs.

so i sent back on the klonopin after the doctor said it would be good for the nerve pain--and it was. and i tried and tried to get off the klonopin but couldn't until now.

i am thinking that i could have possibly had a protracted withdrawal symptoms all the way 7 years later.

so again, i am definitely a kindler.

my brain is all the time hissing, cooking and hallucinating.

so tonight and right this minute my brain is a little bit better for the first time in 133 days/but it usually starts really cooking after 2am. what is that about? so then i stay up from 2-5:30am and then fall asleep for just a minute after 5:30am.

but again, right now, my brain is better and i can't believe it. i just took a melatonin for the first time since all of this and i hope it does me okay and not freak out the little brain.

i think it's time to introduce a food fish oil and Vit, D3 yay!! i'm thinking supplements again, that is a good sign!!

Hi Daisy

4 months is a very small amount of time to expect significant relief from w/d.  In addition I believe you mentioned you are tapering suboxone.  If I were you I would hold on the suboxone for a while and let your CNS settle down and your receptors FULLY Upregulate from the benzo taper.

You have accomplished a HUGE step.  But is is the first step in a journey.  Take a breather.  Rest get stable and THEn begin the suboxone.  Believe me I have helped others in your shoes. 

There is a rush to be DONE but your body needs CARE and TIME.  Nurture yourself over the next few months.  Once you feel stable...NO hissing hallucinations etc then develop a suboxone plan.  I just helped someone who used my SLOW benzo taper as a model.  He took 6 months to taper the last tiny tiny crumb of sub.  But guess what he stepped OFF in rather good shape.  Now 3 months later he is attending college and playing hockey!  He is SOO happy!  He has been on suboxone for 9 years and opiates for over 19 years. 

He still has benzos to taper but for him suboxone was the big monster on his back.  After a year or so he plans on beginning a benzo taper.

Hang in there sister!

Mimi

Mimi,

would you please help me taper from the suboxone when it is time?

the only thing i am worried about with the suboxone is that it might not help my receptor's to ever heal of calm down if i am still taking the sub? what do you think?

not sure if the sub was reving up some brain symptoms?

i was on 12 mg. of sub and i taper to 10 mg. and i won't go any further.

i was going to taper another 2mg. to be on just 8 mg. of suboxone, what do you think?

again, can my Gaba receptor's regulate while i am still taking the suboxone?

last night was a definite change for the first time in over 4 months and i noticed my brain was more calmed than it had been since i cold turkey'd in that detox. whoa! could it be healing? it's kinda reving up right  now but i was able to do some things today that i haven't been able to do. and although my body felt like it would take off from all the little helicopter's reving throughout my body and the tremoring and vibrating was very intense. but my brain was different. i hope i sleep some tonight.

okay, please let me know about the suboxone.

thank you! pretty

HI Daisy

I can sure tell you what worked for my friend.  He said it was watching me SLOWLY taper the benzo that inspired him to taper the sub.  He initially did not even tell me but slowly went down over 6 months and then he told me when he got to a tiny crumb.  He took more months and then skipped a day  and  then 2 and then 3 (this went on for a few months) and then stopped.  The good news is he did darn well after stopping.  A few weeks of runny nose and being sensitive but nothing too bad.  I am so proud of him and glad I was a part of his recovery.  Makes all I endured so meaningful.

As for worrying that the sub getting in the way of receptors healing... Benzos bind to the GABA receptors and opiates to the Opioid receptors.  Different.  FYI- Getting the drugs out the of body is NOT the goal.  You want to reduce the levels of the drug at a rate where your body can adjust to each cut and UP regulate your receptors to MATCH the drop in your blood levels.  When you drop too quickly you feel ill.  When you cut too fast it is hard for your body to work efficiently.  It is operating under distress.  Give it all the help you can by eating well, avoiding stress as much as you can etc.

Currently-  Your body is hard at work Up regulating your GABA receptors.  Let it work at this job efficiently without having to take energy away to work on up-regulating the opioid receptors.  One step at a time. 

Might be a good idea to start your own blog (or do you have one) so we can come over and post on your taper thread.

So So glad you are feeling better!!  Keep up the good work!!  One step after the other!

Mimi

hi mini,

yes, i have a blog.

that would be great. okay, so i am now at 10mg. of he sub. i am under a ton of stress that i can't help right now.

if you read the post i started, i think it is under the cold turkey, rapid taper. i think it is called 'Bizarre new Brain symptom'. of course, that is all i have been writing about is my brain. that's why i think i am the only one with these bizarre and intense brain stuff.

i'm sure i am not. but it feels that way.

anyway, if you read through that, you will see why i cannot avoid the stress right now.

i was going to drop another 2 mg. of the suboxone, but i think i had better hold where i am until further notices, i.e. i will definitely drop some more when certain things happen like my brother finds a place to live and see what is up with my father and his heart surgery.

i should only be going through a benzo withdrawal but i am not. i am also going through the most intense family stuff and some abuse issues as well.

okay, let me know what you think i should do? again, i am at 10mg. from 12 mg. of sub.

thanks, pretty

ok Pretty; if you read my Progress Log (Mommy's Progress Log") I have had the "lightning bolt" feeling especially going down my legs for a loooong while now. It's a little more subtle of a feeling now yay! but I can feel it right now.

~stasia

hi stasia,

you do have that?

so that is a normal benzo symptom?

i thought the lightening bolt down my legs was the MS.

i may not even have MS. this all may just be from benzo's. you have to realize i was on benzo's for a very long time before with 7 years clean from it before i started up again for ten years.

all of my symptoms could just be from benzo's. i have been on benzo's i guess and probably for more than my life.

my neurologist isn't even worried about the 'MS" and wants to see if i will need any Ms drugs only when i am done with the benzo withdrawal he said. that is how not worried he is about it.

the so called MS symptoms have not changed over ten years. they have stayed the same.

thanks for letting me know about this.

i am feeling so much better. i've been on here letting everyone know that i think i have finally turned a corner in regards to all the brain stuff. i feel a healing has taken place. and that drilling pressure and vibration has calmed immensely when i never thought it would.

yay!

pretty

It sounds as though your neurologist may know some things about benzo WD; have you thought about asking him to help you with that in some way?

I'm so glad you are having a window of some relief. If you want to you can start your own Progress Log, it's not for others to write in, more like your own diary. It helps to look back and see where you've been. My left toe's twitching away right now; I had foot drop in it last year and now I think it may have been related to me taking benzos in some way. That foot got better but started up twitching when I CTed benzos in Jan. I like to tell myself the receptors in there are healing, and of course someday the twitching will stop for good. Annoying...

~stasia

ps. you sound like you're in a better place-long may it last! 

don't i wish i could talk to my Neurologists about the benzo's symptoms.

he says he doesn't do anything other than Neurology.

i just laughed as it seems like everything about this is Neurological.

i will just give him this to read over

http://www.benzosupport.org/symptoms.htm

i have every single symptom.

i tell myself that as well when something is twitching away. that my receptor's are healing. especially when my brain moves and swims, and i have the sensation of falling, flying and floating.

this is a good article that helped my mother understand my symptoms:

benzowithdrawalhelp.com/2012/08/05/how-to-support-a-loved-with-benzo-withdrawal-syndrome/http://www.benzosupport.org/symptoms.htm

 

 

*as a side note, I was CT'd in a high-end rehab ($40K for 30 days) where I met every variety of dope fiend known to man.  Most of the folks doing street drugs were very well-aware of how problematic benzo withdrawl is and stay tend to stay away from daily use.  I had 2 different heroin addicts, and a guy who was hooked on crack, tell me that they are scared of benzos because of the withdraw issues.  It made me think.  if only I was a hard-core drug addict, I would have known better than to take benzos when prescribed to me by my doctor.

 

 

 

Hope this helps!

Kitco - Good post!

This really puts benzos in perspective.

The sad irony for me is, since coming to the forum after getting free to help others, MY greatest fear        now is people reporting a  Dr throwing more benzos at them when they go for taper support.

Then their situation compounds by a crossover, dose equivalents, lag time, and incompetence.

My heart breaks for these people.       

River

Kitco. Thanks fo the affirmation; it's a crazy world!

~stasia

 

you do have that?

so that is a normal benzo symptom?

i thought the lightening bolt down my legs was the MS.

 

Pretty -

Your posts show just how much you are suffering. We would take it away if we could.

You wanted to know about some symptoms - the hissing in your head is probably tinnitus- ringing in the ears, a common s/x.

Lightning down the leg is another common one.

Yes, you may not even have ms. The benzos affect chemical and electrical processes, which can affect everything, that's why there are so many side effects.

Your body is healing, even though it doesn't feel like it.

Honey, I didn't think I would make it, and I did.

I know how rough it is. It's easy for us to tell you not to reinstate but we don't want to see you dig a deeper hole.

We want to see you healed.

I'll be watching your posts, and we hope you can hold on to what you have gained.

River

Hi River! Hi Everyone on this thread.

Mimi, i hope that you will stop by as i am really in a bad wave and have been since i saw that so called 'benzo wise' doctor at UCLA.

she was a young woman who just finished her whatever it's called? her schooling to be an 'addictionologist'.

i couldn't believe it really! i just don't think people should be calling themselves that unless they really dig deeper into this thing like Dr. Ashton did, that's all.

anyway, i did get that remeron prescription and i definitely need advice in regards to whether or not i should take it?

i did take the smallest dose last week and it was way to sedating for me. just not right. i just felt like it deadened my brain a little even though my brain still had all of it's annoying activity.

so i cut that in half and it is still too sedating.

and i am wondering if it set in motion this horrible wave i am in? and have been in since last week.

my brain is so violent that i don't understand what's happening at all? i sometimes don't can't grasp that this is a benzo withdrawal but i don't know what else it could be?

the dp/dr are severe. the sensation of floating and falling are severe.

the undulating and feeling like i am on a boat that is in a storm is severe.

my brain pushing and squeezing down on itself is severe. and i am not sure if it could be that remeron that has me in this wave or if i am healing?

it's 5 months now. and my brain is still as severe as the first day? that really confuses me.

and the things is the only day i actually felt a little better was the day i went to the Doctor at UCLA and i was not on any remeron.

i have weird and unsual dark patches under both eyes and deep jagged lines on the left side of my face where my brain is doing most of it's activity. i can feel the vibration on my skin on my face from my brain.

it mostly does it's activity on the left side.

i don't know why i am the only one that continues to go on about how severe my brain is. i really think i am the only one on here?

i can possibly be the only one with all this brain stuff. and it just is going on for so long.

i know i am the only one who has not left the house and stay's on the couch all day, day in and day out and never see's any sunshine because i am too fatigued and sick to move during the day.

is 5 months still a short time? i know i will be on that couch for a full year. i hope not. i shouldn't say i know. i don't want to make that happened.

all i can say is severe, severe and severe. and i can't believe it. is this still from the benzo's and cold turkey?

pretty

Hi River! Hi Everyone on this thread.

Mimi, i hope that you will stop by as i am really in a bad wave and have been since i saw that so called 'benzo wise' doctor at UCLA.

she was a young woman who just finished her whatever it's called? her schooling to be an 'addictionologist'.

i couldn't believe it really! i just don't think people should be calling themselves that unless they really dig deeper into this thing like Dr. Ashton did, that's all.

anyway, i did get that remeron prescription and i definitely need advice in regards to whether or not i should take it?

i did take the smallest dose last week and it was way to sedating for me. just not right. i just felt like it deadened my brain a little even though my brain still had all of it's annoying activity.

so i cut that in half and it is still too sedating.

and i am wondering if it set in motion this horrible wave i am in? and have been in since last week.

my brain is so violent that i don't understand what's happening at all? i sometimes don't can't grasp that this is a benzo withdrawal but i don't know what else it could be?

the dp/dr are severe. the sensation of floating and falling are severe.

the undulating and feeling like i am on a boat that is in a storm is severe.

my brain pushing and squeezing down on itself is severe. and i am not sure if it could be that remeron that has me in this wave or if i am healing?

it's 5 months now. and my brain is still as severe as the first day? that really confuses me.

and the things is the only day i actually felt a little better was the day i went to the Doctor at UCLA and i was not on any remeron.

i have weird and unsual dark patches under both eyes and deep jagged lines on the left side of my face where my brain is doing most of it's activity. i can feel the vibration on my skin on my face from my brain.

it mostly does it's activity on the left side.

i don't know why i am the only one that continues to go on about how severe my brain is. i really think i am the only one on here?

i can possibly be the only one with all this brain stuff. and it just is going on for so long.

i know i am the only one who has not left the house and stay's on the couch all day, day in and day out and never see's any sunshine because i am too fatigued and sick to move during the day.

is 5 months still a short time? i know i will be on that couch for a full year. i hope not. i shouldn't say i know. i don't want to make that happened.

all i can say is severe, severe and severe. and i can't believe it. is this still from the benzo's and cold turkey?

pretty

  prettydaisys..  I too was on the couch at 5 months and had a lot of your sx's

"the sensation of floating and falling are severe.

the undulating and feeling like i am on a boat that is in a storm is severe ".

  I remember these ones real well and still get them but not as bad...you will get better hang in there...xx

Hi Pretty daisys

Just looking round the forum and see you have been given Remeron I am on it but have liver and pancreas issues with it and am seeing liver specialist shortly.It is sedating I was on 15 mg but down to 13 mg,was also on Nitrazepam another benzo sleeping tablet,when I was on Nitrazepam 10 mg and 15 mg of Nitra it did not knock me out,am now on 3.5 mg of Valium using it to taper off the Nitrazepam in fact no more Nitrazepam.

Also on Lithium carbonate as Remeron was not working as a AD.

Everyone is different with tablets.

Moe and dd58,

thank you so much! so seriously. i feel like i am crazy over here with this never ending undulation and my brain moving inside my skull from side to side causing the sensation of floating and falling.

and the remeron will be used at half of the smallest dose so that will be like about 3mg. for sleep only as needed.

i really want my brain to heal without anything buffering it and if this remeron is this sedating, it's just probably not good.

i also take without any problem vistaril and benedryl as needed.

i swear, i really feel like i am the only one with symptoms so severe and after 5 months it's getting hard to hang on here.

so Moe, you have about 10 months now? i read your signature but still could figure it out. not for the life of me.

i don't see how this undulation will ever go away? it's been going on since i left the detox hospital on 5/3/12.

i just can't believe it!!

the symptoms of dp/dr are very severe right now. there are things happening that i can't even speak about on here and i am always very detailed and honest on this forum and probably to a fault but that's just how i am.

i don't recognize myself and i am so thin. now if someone says that the remeron will help me to start eating more and gain weight, then i'm going to take it, but otherwise, i really don't want to.

thank so much you guys! pretty

Hi prettydaisy's

Remeron made me eat I was down to 7 stone which is 98 lb that was in April this year before I was admitted into psych hospital and 6 months later am 10 stone 140 lb.  and I am 5 ft 8 inches tall,I looked like a walking skeleton.That is why I was put on it I was told this by psych doctor.

It is also sedating so it is up to you whether you take it if you look on here and internet it will tell you about it,we all want our brains to heal and believe you me no one knows what is going on in our brains only we do,you are not the only one with symptoms we are all different so we all have different symptoms.

dd58

Of course, the first time I withdrew, I was not sure it was withdraws, all the docs told me it wasn't, now I know for sure it was. Please tell me what your thoughts are!!

exact the same happen to me...i also got worse and worse for every time i did one benzo day,or had me a beer...until it was REAL BAD,i didnt understand it befoure it was to late...

iam full of question also...its soo rare phenomenon so nobody knows so much about it

i have now gone 17 mounths in WD and are still not good...

MY big question are....do you get perfectly NORMAL again if you had a kindling condition?if i have a beer in 3-4-5 years...will i have another seizure?wheres is the limit?can i ever do surgery whit morphine??

this bugs my head...and NO ONE knows the ansvear

Morphine is a different kind of drug than benzos are, I had morphine when I broke my leg and had surgery in August; it seemed to go well. I HOPE it didn't make my wd last longer. I am almost a year out myself and the wd symptoms are still very much here, only better.

Have you stopped drinking alcohol since you stopped taking benzos? I stopped for awhile. I don't know what I think about it.

Let me know please. And hang in there! 

~stasia

Pretty -

I am so sad to hear you are struggling so hard. Darn it!

Some people benefit from a deeper cellular cleansing to enable healing.

On YouTube, there is a naturopath who has a very high cure rate. His name is Dr Robert Morse. His videos are free and his free advice could help you.

I have seen many people heal with this approach.

River

Morphine is a different kind of drug than benzos are, I had morphine when I broke my leg and had surgery in August; it seemed to go well. I HOPE it didn't make my wd last longer. I am almost a year out myself and the wd symptoms are still very much here, only better.

Have you stopped drinking alcohol since you stopped taking benzos? I stopped for awhile. I don't know what I think about it.

Let me know please. And hang in there! 

~stasia

i dont even use alcohol deodrant in fear of a seizure,and dont drink coffeine...if you had taken alcohol or moprhine when u suffer from kindling you gonna have a serious seizure

Morphine is a different kind of drug than benzos are, I had morphine when I broke my leg and had surgery in August; it seemed to go well. I HOPE it didn't make my wd last longer. I am almost a year out myself and the wd symptoms are still very much here, only better.

Have you stopped drinking alcohol since you stopped taking benzos? I stopped for awhile. I don't know what I think about it.

Let me know please. And hang in there! 

~stasia

''

 

i dont even use alcohol deodrant in fear of a seizure,and dont drink coffeine...if you had taken alcohol or moprhine when u suffer from kindling you gonna have a serious seizure,anything who contains GABA a-b