I must be 'foged in' i still see a growing % taper rate

    Im lookin at titration and Im thinkin,,,,, Im prob. not thinking right!!!  If I take 1ml out of 100ml  then when I get down to 50ml and pull 1ml out, Im making a double % cut then when I started.

      You take 1ml out per day. so when the futher down you get into your volume that increases the percentage of the cut???

                what am I missing?/ how can you figure the math up front and continue to have a 10% rate of titration (if you start with 10%rate) seems it would compound all the way to 100% when you have 1ml left and make your last 1ml cut?

                      Im trying to figure this out i may need the 1% cuts after I get to .5mg klon. but I dont see how I can keep from doing the math every day.

                          thanx Skeeter

Hi Skeeter,

 

You are correct, although we cut by the same amount, it does account for larger part of our dose as our dose decreases. This happens with any method of withdrawal, which is why we have to reduce the amount we cut as our taper progresses. You have to remember, we only titrate one pill at a time though. The other pills are not reduced, just the one one tablet we make up into the benzo-milk liquid. So, when we have finished tapering the present tablet, we then make a new calculation for the new tablet. The calculation is affected by the the number of pills taken, so when the next tablet is titrated, it will be at smaller decrements. If nothing else changes, as the number of pills we take diminishes, the the formula will require you to make up a larger volume of benzo-milk liquid. The larger the volume, the more 1ml cuts to be made, and the slower the titration of that particular tablet. We can always skip some of the cuts too as we are disposing of more of the liquid so that the rate of withdrawal is slowed again. As I said before, this happens with every method though. Adjusting the rate of withdrawal with each new pill is just a very convenient way of going about it.

Thanx Colin

                Ok so I am only doing 1 pill. It will prob be the .5mg klon pill.

          So when we get lower in the quantity of liquid do you have some numbers that will tell me about what range Im withdrawing at so I will know how often to skip days.

                Im saying when I give you all the info as far as taper rate i want to go at. Ive seen an excel sheet but I dont have excel on my computer. when it comes time can you give me beg. and end percent of taper? I can figure the part of pill im on by subtracting the volume disposed from the total volume. Seems I need to know the percent taper rate of 1ml at the start and at the end so I can keep it in my range. ya know?  try to prevent getting in to deep.

                          thanx Skeeter

Hi Skeeter,

 

The formula we use is just a starting point. As always, listen to your body. The thing to bare in mind is that you are effectively splitting your benzo into very tiny parts (accurately too). You can always perform some simple maths to check your progress. There really is not need to obsess about the amounts, but it is worth while checking every-so-often during the taper. The 10% guide we use is more than sufficient I would think. So, if you were using 100ml, and reducing by 1ml per day, it might be worth making a check at 90ml as that would represent a 10% cut. I do only mean it as a check though. You might suppose that a 10% reduction of 90ml is 9ml, so you should only make 9ml cut in total over the following 10 days. Maybe you could (by skipping a cut on one of the days), but just go with how you are feeling. Your body will let you know. My guess would be that most people could continue quite happily for some time this point before they need to consider slowing the cuts.

 

Now, when you are getting to the stage of disposing of half of the liquid (however many mls it might be), I would recommend that people reflect upon how their taper has been going. It might be worth making a 1ml cut only every other day, but it will be an individual thing. I dare say many will be able to continue with reductions of 1ml every day right down to zero because as the dose becomes very small, we can cope with these reductions even if they represent percentage cuts larger than we would recommend at higher doses.

 

Percentages offer the best guide, but they become a poor guide at very small doses.

  Thank You Colin

                  I read it 4xs 

            The halfway check, cool i guess your going slow enough 1ml a day your not going to get into tooooooo deep before you realize you need a break sideways. Nothing like the 50% cut I made  .

                  I appreciate it. Im gonna do some liquid cuts in milk with my 1mg pill Klon and when I get to .5mg and ready to do the titration Ill post a message.

              thanx again Skeeter

The truth is, it doesn't much matter how much liquid we decide upon when titrating one tablet. If it's 70ml, it is 70 parts. If it's 100ml, it's 100 parts. Since we don't have to make a cut every day, and we use our body as our guide, cuts this small cannot be noticed by themselves. It is the overall taper rate that's important. I would hazard that if someone continually adjusted their titration taper with one pill according to how they feel, it would take the same amount time to titrate off using 100ml or 70ml. Your body really will guide you if let it.

  Ok Colin

          I went an smoked a cig. and thoght about this.

              Hows this?  Im gonna take a 1mg klon and put it in 60ml of milk.

          so Ill have a pill split into 60 pieces. which would be .017% of a cut for each ml.

            so your saying I dont have to figure my % each day. I can continue to figure each

          ml as .017% since its so small. If I do very frequent cuts. Like daily. so I dont have to do the math? if i do it daily and stay at 10% a wk. till I get to my .5mg pill then refigure.

              so I just need to figure out how many ml out in 2 wks. looks like about 6. to me. so I can just keep with that figure?? then maybe when I get to .5mg make a larger volume ??so I can cut every day....

                  right?? skeeter

Because if we make cuts according to how we feel (and it's the overall taper rate that matters), we should finish in the same amount of time. If on some days we don't cut because we feel we need to slow it down a little, or on some days we cut by 2ml instead of 1ml because we feel the taper is too slow, then whether or not we are using 70ml or 100ml should be insignificant. If, on the other hand, we intend to stick rigidly to the taper plan (never to be recommended), then 1ml from 70ml (each and every day) is going to be quicker (and possibly/probably tougher) than cutting 1ml from 100ml every day.

 

The formula works well, but the less tablets we take, the more we need to rely upon how we feel and less upon our past taper performance as it translates less effectively into 1ml cuts. This is most pronounced when taking just the one tablet per day. When on one tablet per day, we really do need to be flexible in our approach. The end bit is always the trickiest to manage, but titration does offer to ability to make tiny cuts, so it can make the difference between managing to successfully taper off or not.

 

As you have already pointed out, as our dose decreases, the cuts account for larger cuts in terms of percentages. This is most pronounced when down to one tablet. This is why we should be more flexible.

  Yeh wow benzo'z do wonders for the brain dam...

          I think I got ya. my last post is my plan for the 1mg klon pill. does it look correct?

                I really think I understand finally. Ill be cutting about 6ml every two wks. total till I get to .5 pill . then i may add more liquid so I can cut every day.

            So with the 60ml Ill be pulling out 6ml like about 1 every other day till Im down to 30ml. then Im gonna refigure with the .5 pill is this correct?

                    thanx Skeeter    benzo brain burn 

So, you will be using 1mg Klonopin tablets, not 0.5mg? Smaller tablets are better, but you can do it with 1mg tablets. If you were to use two 0.5mg tablets, you make the reductions to just one tablet. This will keep the taper more regular during the reductions (the rise in percentage cut does not rise as quickly as it would down to one tablet). The titration method was really developed for those that that are super-sensitve to reductions in their benzo dose. Unless super-sensitive, you can make the reductions a little more on the wing. I am aware that you have limited tapering history too, so it's less obvious what taper rate you should aim for. Without a history, about 10% every two weeks is a sensible starting point. We will work out the numbers when you know exactly what rate you'd like to aim form. It is worth having a plan for inspiration. Though, you can adjust it as you need. Because the cuts are so tiny, it does offer loads of flexibility.

  I could do that....

            I have a prescription for .5  3 a day. so I have plenty .5 tabs.  how do I manage the extra .5 pill? cut in half and take it when? I was planning on taking the liquid 3xs a day to keep it even, but if the .5 pill titrated works better  " YOUR THE BOSS lol" seriously whatever you recomend man.. Im goin with ya on this one.

                  Skeeter

Ah, that's where a little trick comes in. Completely obvious when you think about though. Make up your liquid with one pill. Dispose of the amount of liquid acording to how far you have titrated with this pill. Then grind up the second pill and add it to the remaining liquid. You now have your total daily dose in one liquid. Divide the liquid into as many doses as you need for the day.

  Obvious HA

              Im a benzo addict lol

              gotcha... ok this should do it. I need a liquid ml volume amount. am I still going to use the 60 like I said or is that too much for a .5  im pretty sure i can handle the 10% cuts every two wks. I just got done with a 20% 2 wk cut it was ok but 10% would prob be easier.

                 Skeeter Im starting this tom. thnx

                         I think I got the math if I use the 60ml I have 10ml to pull out in 14days 1ml12x's to give me my 10%..... so Sun's off 

                         Im gonna try this Colin.... I really apreciate the help. I double ck'd these numbers  1ml out 12xs in 2wks 10% taper

                              Ill keep posting in my Blog thanx again if this isnt right  just let me know if you would                thanx Skeeter

Hi, Skeeter,

 

Colin can check my numbers, but if you want to titrate a .5 mg tab instead of a 1 mg one, you'll want to use 70 ml and cut every day instead of every other day.

 

(days/tablets)/rate = volume

(14/2)/.1 = 70

 

So you would make up 70 ml of benzo liquid using a .5 mg tablet, then dispose of 1 ml on the first day, then an additional ml on the next day, etc. After disposing of the benzo liquid each day, you can crush your remaining .5 mg Klonopin and add that to your benzo liquid. Then you can divide the liquid up into three parts if you want to take the Klon 3x during the day.

 

I would use the .5 pill to titrate rather than the 1 mg pill. I think that works better for margin of error.

 

Therese

thnx Therese

        I'm going to not cut on Sun's. You know 'rest on Sun' 

                  It should be the same 10% I already figured it and started this morning. when I cut my last .5mg pill yes I see thanx it should be 70ml

                    you guys are great thanx Skeeter

                      Im going to keep my blog posted thanx again

                                          Sk

Hey Skeeter.. it looks like you're getting down there.  Inspiring to see you making progress.  I think we've found the right place.  Let's do this!!