fast withdrawal

ic those who go thru a fast withdrawal have more repercussions - so i ask this - since the drug leaves your body fast - the reason for the crash is

 

a. physical

b. emotional

c. both.

 

if they are all of the above what is damaged and what needs to be replaced and how do we deal with it if a fast withdrawal is done.

 

i am told benzo's are like alcohol and have the same effect - so is that totally true or do benzo's destroy even more then alcohol?

I'd say both, but the primary problem is physical. A slow taper allows people to slowly adjust to being benzo-free.

 

The benzo receptors will repair themselves, but they need time. They are returning to normal as we taper, but it seems that for very many of us, we have a maximum repair rate. If we taper faster than this repair rate, we suffer. So, there is little point in withdrawing more quickly as it appears to have little effect upon the time needed to heal.

 

Alcohol also operates on GABA receptors. The effect is not the same, of course. They do interact though. So, a sober alcoholic can fall off the wagon if they are prescribed benzos as they can induce a craving for alcohol. Alcohol also increases the sedative effects of benzos, sometimes to dangerous levels. It is pretty common for people to die from drinking alcohol whilst taking benzos. Alcohol is a more dangerous drug, in that it kills a lot of people. Few people die from benzos by themselves. I am not suggesting that benzos are anything but a massive problem.

thank you colin for your reply - i will think on that and have more questions later.

 

but as i understand it both alcohol and benzo's do the same thing to our gaba rays (my language for gaba receptors.

For what it's worth, my doctor said that benzos act on the brain in the same way as alcohol. But my doctor said that he had never seen anyone with simply a chemical dependence on alcohol--the alcoholics also had an emotional addiction, unlike some of the benzo patients he's had.

ty - that is encouraging - it was easy for me to give up drinking - i was a binge drinker - i had done another drug to - it was easy to give that up once i made up my mind - that was pot - i was a very regular pot user - but once i started getting paranoid i just gave that up to.  that i used daily - alcohol monthly.

 

i never liked alcohol but i sure did get hooked on benzo's - one thing that helped with not getting hooked on alcohol is i puked whenever i drank.  course that didn't stop me for yrs - but eventually i figured it out and as the bed spun one last time - and i prayed for it to stop one last time - it was my last time.

 

 

ok here is a brain buster i can't find - but would help me to put things into perspective.

 

2 mg adian += how many alcoholic beverages.

 

that would help me to put this into perspective - i now know how to transfer adivan to valium so i can try to relate to other peoples symptoms withdrawal schedules.

 

but i understand alcohol addiction better -

ok here is a brain buster i can't find - but would help me to put things into perspective.

 

2 mg adian += how many alcoholic beverages.

 

that would help me to put this into perspective - i now know how to transfer adivan to valium so i can try to relate to other peoples symptoms withdrawal schedules.

 

but i understand alcohol addiction better -

 

Hi Silver,

 

I think you really need to stop reading all the nonsense about alcohol and benzos being alike. It is true that they both act upon GABA receptors, but their effects are not the same. You do not become drunk from benzos. You may become drowsy, bit that's a temporary effect, which is why benzos are ineffective long-term solutions for insomnia. Benzos can induce a craving for alcohol with alcoholics, which is why it is a bad idea for them to be prescribed to alcoholics. Alcohol is kills a lot of people through liver discease. A combination of alcohol and benzos kills a lot of people through respiratory failure. Few people die through benzo use alone. Should you stop drinking whilst on benzos - absolutely! It is dangerous and tends to make withdrawal more difficult. There is no #Ativan = #drinks formula. They are not the same!

i don't drink - i drank yrs ago - it is just that there is more information on alcohol then benzo's so i thought it would be good for cross reference purposes.

 

i went thru drug and alcohol treatment back in the 80's so i just understand alcohol better cause i have more background information on it.  i only binge drank occasionally but this benzo stuff is has been regular for almost 20 yrs.

 

so colin if i get what you are saying - the only similarity is gaba - but isn't that what our problem is when we are trying to deal with during withdrawals? 

ok it is offical i have planned my withdrawal.

 

2 to 1.5 (already there) stay one month

 

1.25 one month

1 one month

.75 one month

.5 one month

.25 one month

home free

 

might try to from 1.5 to 1 - expect it to be hard for three days. but that is later not now.

Hi Silver,

 

All I'm trying to say is that you are trying to make connections between benzos and alcohol that don't exist. Addictive behaviour might offer some insight for the individual who abuses benzos, but they are quite different drugs. Prof. Ashton even suggests that an occasional drink whilst withdrawing is no problem, but the experience of so many members suggests otherwise. They both act upon GABA receptors, but their effects are quite different. They can combine in in dangerous way, but it is not a purely additive effect. There is no #Ativan = #drinks equation because it would be like camparing chalk with cheese.

 

I'm finding it difficult to understand what it is you are looking to find out. It seems to me that you are obsessing about this. I suffered from obsessive thoughts during my withdrawal. Is this what's happening with you and alcohol? After all, you don't even drink! I think you are making too much of connection because of GABA. Alcohol withdrawal does not induce the same symptoms as benzo withdrawal.

 

 

Edit: I just read your taper plan. Keep the cuts as small as possible. I know this is difficult with Ativan, but I suggest that your cut from 2mg should not exceed 0.25mg (that's a 12.5% cut). Cutting from 1.5mg to 1mg is a very big cut (one third). Better to make it a 0.25mg cut instead. Smaller cuts will probably mean that you can make more frequent cuts, so it does necessarily lead to a longer withdrawal process. Just less painful.

your right about the taper colin - i am a terrorised optimists.

 

i just feel really good and adjusted to this 1.5 from 2 mg - it was ruff at first and even ruffer when i tried to taper more so i am stable - very stable at 1.5 and will hold that until i am back from vacation.

 

ok the obsession with alcohol even thou i don't drink is the gaba thing - they both have that in common.

Hi Silver

Sorry Colin I'm going to butt in here. Silver I don't know the science, I don't think booze and benzos can be compared, but I totally understand your trying to relate the 2 psychologically for two reasons 1 you understand alcohol and 2 youv'e beat it. I too searched for the booze/ benzo equivalent, Dr. Reg Peart actually came up with a number, but I found it un-relatable and totally counter to my experience with alcohol. In short I found his Valium mg+ = drinks ,way to low in the drinks #.

That said ,I had the same interest, found it irrelevant ,and still tapered off Benzos.

Good Luck

Bobers

thank you bobber

 

i thought maybe it might be encouraging cause giving up drinking once i remembered for the last time what it did to me was easy.

Hi, Silver,

 

I actually asked my doctor a similar question once. I told him that I knew that benzos were prescribed for alcoholics who had stopped alcohol c/t, so would it theoretically be possible to do the reverse with benzos--substitute a particular amount of alcohol for the benzo and then taper the alcohol? He said that theoretically, you could do that. However, he said that you would need so much alcohol that you would be drunk all the time and would develop problems from the amount of alcohol you were drinking (you'd get liver problems, etc.). But like I said, he's never seen an alcoholic with a purely physical dependence, so there is more of a psychological element in the alcoholism (or so it seems to me). Hope that answers some of your questions.

i guess.