Math problem on titration

       I'm wanting to taper my 1mg klon by 10% every 2-3 wks. I'm wanting to suspend a whole pill in milk. and using a 100ml container and a syringe. make some careful cuts. But my mind keeps complicating the math. the 1rst cut i got  100 ml -10=10% cut. then??? hmm I'm down to .9mg klon with 10mg dissolved in the liquid. so another 10ml cut would be too much. Just a little help with this math would be appreciated. then at .5mgklon I can go to another whole pill.

             at .5mg I may do the real titration method. but for now Id just like to figure out how to do 10% cuts.

               thanx Skeeter  :wacko:straight A's in college algebra.. meds do wonders huh!!!

Hi Skeeter,

 

For me to work the numbers out, I need the following information:

 

The number of tablets (or fraction of tablets) you take per day;

 

The amount you wish to cut and over what time scale (I need a specific number - how many days);

 

Your present daily dose and the strength (dose) of your present tablets. This is a double check for the numbers you provide me.

 

With these numbers, I'll convert your desired taper rate into numbers for your measuring cylinder.

  thnx Im using one whole 1mg klon.  Im not really wanting to tritate per day. Im looking for numbers that will give me a 10% cut each time I cut. taper. Im just wanting to do it with milk so I can keep the steps at 10%. So i figure -10ml out of 100 = 10% cut . would overall put me at .9mg. then I guess ill just have to figure these individually??.  10% of .9 would be another .9ml out? so then id have a total of 19 ml. coming out. then id have to figure out what dose that puts me at each time?... id be at .81mg correct? then 10% of .81 ect.

                            thanx Skeeter

Skeeter

Yes if thats all you want to do every few weeks your math is correct, trust me on this start a little notebook and write down every step you take, even write down when you take it ,that way theres no confsion of what you've done and what youre going to do

Good Luck

Bobers

Hi Skeeter,

 

You can use the method you outlined, but the maths can become a little confusing for some when withdrawing. Your approach is correct though: recalculate every so often so that you are reducing your rate of withdrawal as your daily dose diminishes.

 

You should bare in mind that small frequent cuts are more easily tolerated than larger infrequent cuts. So, if you were looking to reduce your dose by about 10% over 14 days, then reduce the volume by 1ml five days out of 7. After 14 days you will have reduced the volume by 10ml (10%). Just spread these 1ml cuts evenly over the 14 days (some days there will be no cuts). Then, as you said, look to reduce your volume by an additional 8ml over the next forteen days. You would then be at 81ml, so you reduce by 8ml over the next forteen days. And so on. As with any method, keep a diary of how you are doing, and you can then adjust your taper to suit. Also, it really is worth reducing by 1ml increments (but regularly) rather than the single 10% cuts every two weeks (or whatever time period you decide upon).

Hi Skeeter,

 

You can use the method you outlined, but the maths can become a little confusing for some when withdrawing. Your approach is correct though: recalculate every so often so that you are reducing your rate of withdrawal as your daily dose diminishes.

 

You should bare in mind that small frequent cuts are more easily tolerated than larger infrequent cuts. So, if you were looking to reduce your dose by about 10% over 14 days, then reduce the volume by 1ml five days out of 7. After 14 days you will have reduced the volume by 10ml (10%). Just spread these 1ml cuts evenly over the 14 days (some days there will be no cuts). Then, as you said, look to reduce your volume by an additional 8ml over the next forteen days. You would then be at 81ml, so you reduce by 8ml over the next forteen days. And so on. As with any method, keep a diary of how you are doing, and you can then adjust your taper to suit. Also, it really is worth reducing by 1ml increments (but regularly) rather than the single 10% cuts every two weeks (or whatever time period you decide upon).

 

    I have a question with this. Ok say i want to reduce 10%.  10% cut would peak in 2wks. if I did it all at once. If I strech it out like your saying and do a tritation cut 1%  within that 2wks till I have my 10% cut in. Then will I have pushed my withdrawl 'peak' up like maybe another week till It hits??.. Just askin? I do like the 1% cuts but im not sure when the peak, if I stoped the cut at 10% would be.

                  Thanx Skeeter

Hi Skeeter,

 

I'm not sure I follow you. Small daily (or near daily) cuts mean that you experience a gradual decline in blood concentrations of benzo. A cut of 10% all in one go is more of shock to the system. The majority of people seem to be able tolerate cuts of up to about 10%, but some cannot. However, just about everyone will benefit from smaller more frequent cuts over larger less frequent cuts. Daily cuts means that you gradually adjust to a gradual decline of benzo levels. Larger cuts made every week or two means that your body will have to work harder to adjust.

Hi Skeeter,

 

I'm not sure I follow you. Small daily (or near daily) cuts mean that you experience a gradual decline in blood concentrations of benzo. A cut of 10% all in one go is more of shock to the system. The majority of people seem to be able tolerate cuts of up to about 10%, but some cannot. However, just about everyone will benefit from smaller more frequent cuts over larger less frequent cuts. Daily cuts means that you gradually adjust to a gradual decline of benzo levels. Larger cuts made every week or two means that your body will have to work harder to adjust.

 

                  Thanx Colin

            Guess Im saying if I do a 1 time 10% cut. withdrawls peak in approx 2wks and 1 to 2 wks till they abate. I read that in Ashton.

              So your sayin if I do a 10% cut over 14 days in 1% daily cuts, I wont run into a "peak" withdrawl symptom. It will be a steady withrawl sypmtom hopefully I can handle. A steady 1% peak if you wish. Then I guess if it gets to intense you guys are just taken' a few days or a wk. or what ever to let you system catch up. So I dont get to far into withdrawls??

    am I understanding?  Thanx Skeeter

Hi, Skeeter,

 

Yes, you understand correctly. With titration, you're doing little tiny changes every day. If things start to get too much to handle, you just hold at your dose for a day or a week--whatever is needed to stabilize, then you continue, probably with smaller daily cuts than before. As you pointed out, this way is steadier with regard to w/d symptoms--there aren't as many peaks and valleys as in the other method.

 

Some people actually like to do things the Ashton way, where you make a larger cut and then "recover" from it. This way, they feel like they are more in control of their "bad days" and "good days." I used to do this early on in my taper. If I knew I had to go out of town on a particular weekend, I made sure it was near the end of a cut and not right at the beginning. But you could do something like this with daily titration also, just by holding at your dose for a few days before some important event, etc.

Hi

    I read thru the post on here again and have a question. My cuts are .008mg Klon so 12 days I got my first cut of 10% from the 1mg total Im using 2  .5 pills. Do I keep cutting at the same rate or do I start skipping more days to keep the 10% cut rate?....as the quantity of the pill goes down. Just keep titration 1ml every 6days untill It catches me if it does or slow down as the .5mg pill gets smaller.. Benzo logic  sorrry....

                                    Skeeter

Hi Skeeter,

 

For me to understand what's happening, I need to know the numbers from the titration method. How many tablets you take per day, the amount of liquid you create (and how many tablets you use), the amount you dispose of at the moment (and how often you make a new reduction). I need all this to be sure you are folowing the method as outlined. Otherwise I'll come up with the wrong answer.

Hey S

If I read you right your cutting the full 1mg at 10% so now you shoud be at .9 mg so if you use .008 at 12 days you would be at .810  so at  12 days = .804 which still equalls @ 10% of .9 so for this cut  so It  should be close enough for 12 days, some one check my math please.

TC

Bobers

Hey Bob, I'm waiting on Skeeter!

OOOPS

OOOPS

 

Hey Bob,

 

It sounds as though you have a better handle on the situation that I do. I have an idea that might simplify the whole maths side of the titration method. I think our method is pretty straightforward, but everything is tougher when we are still withdrawing. I'm sure I would have found it confusing. I'll try looking into the solution tomorrow.

HI

       Im using two .5mg klon pills.   titrating the one .5mg pill in 60ml of milk.then adding the second pill to the milk  dispensing of 1ml per day. 12 out of 14 days

    .008 cut   12 cuts 10% rate in two wks. I am thinking like Bob said the next cut might be ok. but if you figure it out somewhere around .6mg the same rate will put me at a .16% cut.???or Is that because im figuring in both pills? I dont really know how to figure the math here...remeber Colin? were just titrating the .5mg pill then adding the other .5 after i dispense from the first pill.....I just feel like im gonna have to stay somewhere around 10% maybe lower. I dont want to get myself into 16% cuts....

                                thanx Skeeter

    I sat around a bit and I come up with this % at each cut if I continue 12ml out every two wks.

      .9 *11%cut  .8* 12.5%  .7*14%  .6*16%  .5*20%    so Im seeing Im gonna have to do the math all the way down to stay below 10%..... I can do that but that was my original question to start with...

                                  am I still missing something

                                    Skeeter

Hi

         This is the math I came up with.. benzo math maybe but this is what i came up with. To stay near 10% titration  Im starting off at .8mg  just leaving 1mg and .9mg at 12ml dispensed in two wks 10%

                                                   .8mg   9.5ml out two wks 10%

                                                    .72     8.5ml out         10%

                                                    .65     7.8ml. out         10%

                                                     .59     7.1ml out         10%

                                                    .53      6.2ml out         10%

                      leaves me about 5ml of liquid put me around .48 ( I only lost .02) 10%

                                                 

                        When I do the last .5 pill Im going to have to have more liquid somewhere.

                                                         @ .08   when I go to cut my 10%  would put me under my

                        1ml  .0083  ?   I always have tended to complicate things but this is what Im seeing so far.

                                             I appreciate any help. thanx Sk

Hi Skeeter,

 

This way too complicated to be sure we are talking about the same thing.

 

You are titrating one of your two tablets. You use 60ml of milk, and dispose of an additional 1ml per day from the 60ml benzo-milk liquid. After the daily disposal, you add the crushed second pill. You are, in effect, reducing one part in one-hundred-and-twenty (from the two pills). Where are you now? How much of the 60ml liquid are you disposing of today? Is your concern that you should be slowing the rate of your cuts because your dose is becoming smaller as you taper?

Colin

    Hey

                    exactly.... I know my as my dose decreases my %of cut will increase. Im just trying to figure the numbers. Im at like you said  .5 disolved in 60ml then disposing of 1ml a day then adding the other .5 pill

                  I have 8ml out so far... Im ok till I get my overall dose down to .8mg then my % cut starts to go over 10%... If I figured the math correct Ill just stick with what I figured? my last post...

                                                thanx Sk

OK,

 

When you are disposing of 12ml from the 60ml, you will have reduced you dose (from the two pills) by 10%. You are at 108 parts from 120 parts. 10% from 108 parts is takes you down to about 97 parts. This is a reduction of 11 parts. So, to make a 10% reduction over the second two weeks, make an additional eleven 1ml reductions spread over the 14 days.

 

The next 10% reduction (you will be at 97 parts (38ml from the 60ml liquid), will mean an additional ten 1ml cuts from your benzo-milk liquid. It will look like this:

 

---

First 14 days: twelve 1ml reductions =

 

Day 1: 59ml. You make an additional eleven 1ml reductions over the next 13 days.

 

Day 14: 48ml.

---

Weeks 3 & 4: eleven 1ml reductions =

 

Day 15: 47ml. You make an additional ten 1ml reductions over the next 13 days.

 

Day 28: 37ml.

---

Weeks 5 & 6: ten 1ml reductions =

 

Day 29: 36ml. You make an additional nine 1ml reductions over the next 13 days.

 

Day 42: 27ml.

---

Weeks 7 & 8: eight 1ml reductions =

 

Day 43: 26ml. You make an additional seven 1ml reductions over the next 13 days.

 

Day 56: 19ml.

---

Weeks 9 & 10: eight 1ml reductions =

 

Day 57: 18ml. You make an additional seven 1ml reductions over the next 13 days.

 

Day 70: 11ml.

---

Weeks 11 & 12: seven 1ml reductions =

 

Day 71: 10ml. You make an additional six 1ml reductions over the next 13 days.

 

Day 82: 4ml.

---

Final 4ml: four 1ml reductions =

 

Day 83:  3ml. You make an additional two 1ml reductions over the next 7 days.

 

Day 90: 0ml. You now start titration of your second pill.

---

 

Of course, this is just a guide. You can speed it up or slow it down according to how you feel. It recalculates the taper rate after every two weeks, after about 10% reduction of your dose has been achieved. The new taper rate is about 10% reduction of your total daily dose at that time spread over two weeks. The final 4ml is tapered off in about a week, as it accounts for far less than a 10% reduction.

Hi Skeeter,

 

Thanks for the PM - I've just picked it up. I should pint out, I have a lot of problems with scanning text. Your heavy formatting is making it far harder for me to follow what you write. It is to do with my neurological disorder. At one time, I found it almost impossible to read anything. Anyway, I hope my above post covers what you need to know. I hope to have a different system in place soon that will do all the above automatically, with no calculations required. I must get off and check that out now.

Thank You Colin

                        I think Im so scared I wont be able to get off this stuff,  I just dont want to mess it up.

                                      Skeeter

After reading the posts, not sure what to do to make the daily cuts if that is the way to go.  i am still doing .5mg klon and 1/8 tab, .125mg twice a day.  Was not sure if i was supposed to ask my question here or on my original post.  HELP