A return to benzos

Sadly today I am going to the doctors to ask for a prescription for Valium. I have no choice as my insomnia caused by jetlag has become virtually impossible to deal with. I have ben assured that a month on 5mg by an expert from Reconnexion should not do me major harm. I am just praying that it does bring me a sleep pattern I yearn for. The insomnia is nullifying everything in my life. I cannot go anywhre and have lost total focus so there is a desperate need to take a risk on this possible circuit breakker. I am expecting to be in pain and to have to withdraw all over agin but i do not see what alternative I have.

Regards

Ivan

Hi Ivan,

I haven't read your story yet but I do remember you and may have read it in the past. Were you contemplating travel and decided against it, or am I confusing you with someone else? It must be hard for you to make this decision and I know you wouldn't make it lightly.

I hope you will find some peace and be able to start enjoying life again. I wish you well in your decision. It may re-open doors for you.

It took courage to come on here and tell us what you are doing.

Best Wishes to you.

Xana

Evertonfan

how r u I know we have met and talked before on here as you were so helpful to me and I know you have a success story right.  If not you have a story here somewhere because I have read all about your struggles and how hard you fought to come of this stuff.

I have no judgements on what anyone does in life but I do wish you would look at all your options before you start down the benzo path again.  You yourself said how hard it was to get off and you have done loads of campaigning im just saying think long and hard what if this gets out of control what if you develop tolerance and you must be aware of the kindling effect right.  I just am concerned for you ok.

take care fellow aussie

Lizzy

Hi Evan

You have given it your best shot - what you don't need is to feel guilty at your decision.  You are Benzo wise and you have a plan - its not as though you just capitulated.  I have heard it said that insomnia will not kill you but it will make your life miserable.  I do believe it might not kill you directly but it does make your your immune system vulnerable and it that way can predispose your health in a way which could kill you. Also I know how often I drive (with my children in the car) exhausted from lack of sleep and if I have an accident I would not have died from insomnia but I know my co ordination and reflexes are not 100% and I so often ask myself "is it worth it "

Take care and praying you get some rest.

Hi Ivan,

I'm so sorry to hear that you feel the need to reinstate albeit for a short period.

I can completely understand why you feel the need to do this as long term sleep deprivation is indeed crippling and can cause negative effects on our health. I just wish you could find another option as you have been through so much already.

Whatever you decide to do I wish you the very best.

Take care,

Debbie 

Hi.

I have the same issue to start with the Benzo path.

Have you tried Remeron?  Although it does not work for me, I know it works for quite a few in the forum and it is easier to come off than the Benzo.

Best luck for you.

JC

Hi Evan,

I completely understand your decision - it's too bad you feel this is the path to take but insomnia does rule our lives and you are just trying to get yours back.

Good luck with your decision.  BB is always here to support you whenever you need it.

Best of luck,

Ellen

Thanks everyone for your kind words. This is such a wonderful site. I have most certainly not taken this decision lightly. My life was totally disrupted to the point of near insanity by what is in effect a sleep disorder not insomnia. I was under stress in London before deciding to return home early and sadly the jetlag changed into this complete bereakdown of the body clock. It has been characterised by extended periods of sleeplessness accompanied by immense mental and physical stress. Then ever so often I slept for hours on end but at strange times. I became so overwhelmed by these symptoms yesterday I decided something had to be done to break this. So last night I took 5mg of Valium. I did get to sleep for a number of hours when it looked as if I was going to have antother sleepless night with restlessness which led me to get in and out bed hundreds of times. This was unsustainable. I feared yesterday that my anguish was going to lead me into a psychiatric ward somewhere I have been before.

I am seeing the doctor again this afternoon and hopefully we can negotiate an arrangement which enables me to take as little as possible of this drug.

I am a bit groggy today and have a stomach problem which I hope has nothing to do with the valium.

I will update everyone on what happens over the next few weeks.

Thanks so much again for your supprt.

Ivan.

I have been to talk with the doctor. He has decided to conduct a taper from 4mg which will be quick. So I am to take 4mg for three nights and than reduce it to 3.5 or 3. On Monday we will review the situation. My great concern is becoming adicted again. Indeed, I absolutely hate the prospect of taking any valium at all. But my sleep disorder was so out of control that intervention was necessary.

The doctor says that this is a real challenge; he has not dealt with a predicament like mine before and is trying the best he can. The aim is to get my body clock reset by forcing it to sleep at regular hours without having me adicted once more.

The impact of the drug is unpleasnt. I was groggy all morning, still feel strange and had mysterious pains in my chest during the afternoon.

Thanks to everyone for their support.

More updates later.

Ivan

Passion flower capsules , or hops may be better alternatives then benzos for temporary sleep relief. They also affect gaba someway but not so directly. And then ofcourse there are antidepressants. 3.75-5mg of mirtazapine will put most people to deep sleep, but its a pretty hard drug to stop using too .

Lyrica also has some sleep potential , but its also somewhat addictive.

And then agomelatonin the new antidepressant (valdoxan).

Hi Ivan, I can fully understand this situation, as I have had to reinstate several times, after hoping I could get down to zero and stay there.  Insomnia was the no. 1 reason why I did this.  I stayed away from this board most of the time, out of embarrassment and due to not wanting to discourage others, but not sleeping night after night just isn't an option when I have to work, drive a car, care for family members, and so on.

I'm rethinking how I can approach this next time, and thankfully do not need a large benzo dose in order to sleep...even 2.5 mg Valium is usually enough.  I know I am going to need something for sleep, and there are various medications, as non-medication methods have not worked for me.  I know everything has a potential for withdrawals when it comes time to try and stop, but I get the impression that nearly everything would be easier to get off than benzos.

Apart from an idea I posted about, namely rotating two or more classes of drugs to reduce the risk of tolerance (e.g. doxylamine/diphenhydramine rotated with trazodone, with maybe L-tryptophan/melatonin as a third option), there are non-GABA acting medications that could probably help without rotating them.  Everyone (myself included) seems to find mirtazapine very sedating, and a few of the anti-convulsants could possible help...I recall reading of tiagabine (Gabitril) being useful as a sleep drug (10 mg per night I think it was in the trial), and carbamazepine (Tegretol) has been mentioned by a doctor (Dr Ron Gershaw from memory) as a possible way of getting off benzos while also having some sleep promoting ability.

I'm not on here to try and push drugs on anyone, but just saying that there could be some non-benzo options for those of us who just cannot function when experiencing insomnia night after night.

Hello everyone

This is an update on the situation I find myself in thanks to my sleeping disorder. I have been in hospital now for just over a week. I was allowed to come home for part of the day today. I have been treated with varying doses of an anti-psychotic called Seroquel. It has a side-effect of inducing sleep. I have been on varying dosages of this drug ranging from 75mg to 150mg. I have been assured that this is a very low dose. The amount of sleep each night does not always correlate to the dosage. For example, I took 125mg over the last two nights. On the first I got 3 hours of sleep and on the second 8. So it can be assumed that my underlying sleep disorder is still very much a problem. My big concern about this drug is that it is from the same family as Zyprexa which almost certainly caused my movement disorder. So I am having a lot of trouble accepting that I must take it in these circumstances. The only alternative is to take a benzodiazepine but the fear is that I will become addicted to them again very easily.

Another problem is that I am not good at dealing with long hours of sleeplessness once I have woken early in the morning. Moreover, this drug is stupefying for me so I am always feeling off.

The psychiatrist wants to discharge me on Monday and both he and Junko are in favour of me going into a private facility called Victoria Clinic. I am against this for a number of reasons. I have not handled the situation well. I have had panic attacks and hysteria and a private hospital would not accept this behaviour. However, more importantly, I have had so many negative experiences with psychiatry, I don’t trust psychiatrists. I do not want to be given more drugs. And I feel the best place to sleep in this situation is in my own bed. With less noise it may be possible for example to reduce the dosage and get more sleep.

My plan is to accept the need to take Seroquel and to develop strategies to deal with early morning awakening such as reading a book or listening to the radio or ipod. I found yesterday that in spite of waking before 2 in the morning I was still alert at 11pm. I want to try to live as normal a life as possible which is not going to happen in a psychiatric hospital.

The unit I am in is very difficult. There are genuinely disturbed people there and I have no one to talk with. One person a young male hogged the tv and insisted on having techno music blaring through the whole unit. Thankfully he has gone home which makes life a little easier. But being in the unit without getting out made the days go very slowly. I read books but for much of the time I have been overwhelmed by anxiety. A private hospital would be better but not much.

Junko agrees with my plan in theory but is terrified of any repetition of the behaviour I exhibited when I was desperate for sleep. I have had outbursts in hospital mainly due to my great fear of Seroquel and the fear that it may not continue to work as a sleep aid. This was very much on my mind yesterday morning after such a small amount of sleep.

The other big worries are: will I ever be able to get off this drug and will my sleep pattern come back. I know for certain if I am in hospital I will be forced to take the drug every night when maybe I need to try staying off it sometimes to see if my body can sleep unassisted. I felt that this was possible last night but did not have the chance to try.

I am in a constant state of anxiety which is very hard to live with and it will only be when I give life a try that this can be reduced.

I am feeling tired today partly because of the stress and partly because of the drug.

I now know for certain that I risked my life when I took the trip to Britain. This is very hard for me to accept. I did everything out of the best of intentions and as a result I became seriously ill. As the psychologist whom I saw says you can’t beat reality but I do wish I faced a brighter future like the one I thought I had in June.

Bye for now

Ivan

Evertonfan,

I'm only going to comment on the seroquel issue. You are correct about it-it is a major antipsychotic in the same group as zyprexa, geodon, risperdal and others. It does have the side effect of causing sleepiness.

However, this should not be the reason for prescribing it. It is prescribed mainly for psychosis, delusional disorder, paranoia. Just wanted you to know this. I've seen situations where docs like to use it for sleep issues. It can cause many problems such as diabetes. My husband has had thatvhappen to him from seroquel. He actually does take it for a good reason, but sleep is not that reason.

These docs are ridiculous when it comes to using a major drug like this for sleeping. Please!

Intend

Hi Ivan

I am similar to yourself, a lack of sleep can drive me to feeling really 'unstable' for want of a better word.  I am dreading coming down and having to deal with it.

Your post strongly suggests that you SHOULD NOT enter another psych facility, so trust your gut my friend, if you are uncomfortable and anxious about going to this Victoria clinic, do not go.

At least when you are home you have some small comforts, i.e. you can draw yourself a bath, pet your animals , not have to listen to others loud music and have the luxury of your own bed (even if you aren't actually sleeping in it).

It can and is a scary experience, as you said you see some very disturbing things, which ultimately play on your mind when sleep is no where in sight.

I honestly don't know if this will help but my husband purchased me this sleep programme called Holosync, it is revered here in Australia as the leading edge is subliminial reprogramming of your mind to sleep - for me - so far, so good.  It is expensive at around $500AUS, but if it gets me sleep that's a small price.

Re - The Seroquel, I got given that at my last 'dietox' to help with withdrawals and had a god awful experience, I was very allergic to it and my whole face, tongue and lips were swollen like crazy, I was gagging on my tongue, and you you know what?  They didn't give a 'toss', they kept plying it into me saying my body would get 'used' to it.  Thank the dear lord my hubby got me outta there quick smart.  Home tw days and off the Seroquel, face, tongue settled down.

Seroquel is used 'off label' all the time as a sleep aid, my next door neighbout uses it - she started on 50mg around 3 years ago and now needs 500mgs to do the same job as the 50mg did in the beginning.  I am not trying to 'scare' you Ivan, just telling you what I know of this drug.

I am also on Remeron (Avanza) here in Australia and it is quite sedating, but I need 30mg, I find it a pleasant 'knackered' kind of feeling, although not euphoric as some have reported.

If you are interested in the Holosync programme please let me know and I will pm you details.  It works on a purely subliminal basis of reprogramming the neuropathways in your mind to allow for sleep.  Hundreds of testimonials on their site.

Take care and I will pray for you tonight to catch some zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's.

StaffyGirl x

Usually remeron works in really really low doses for sleep, like 3,75mg or 5mg , these are not doses that doctors usually prescribe, though. If you start it a higher dose then mentioned for it to help in these low doses it should be discontinued for a couple of weeks before it work again in these doses. Talking from personal experience on this.

Im not trying to scare you either , but antipsychotics should not be used for sleep if there are som other options . Sedating antidepressant like trazodone, remeron, valdoxan are much much better options. You might end up with neuroleptic malignant syndrome or somekind of permanent tick or jerk from use of antipsychotics.

Seroquel is somewhat major tranquilizer. Its the most sold drug in my country (finland), and doctors do not quite know the dangers of the drug. It is such a new drug compared to benzodiazepines that the real dangers of the drug are not yet evaluated well. Even on the box (here) it says that it may cause permanent brain damage, ok the percentage must be much under 1% but still. Seroquel under 100mg a day, should not be used at all, except when starting the drug i think the box says this. There is something about it being started under 100mg but should be raised over 100mg a day after that. It has something to do with possible damage to dopamine receptors i believe. Yet the doctors here prescribe it for long times doses 25-50mg for sleep.  I have read reports from people online that if they stop using the drug, and start it again they usually have to go quite high on the dose ;( .

I had this exact ordeal a couple of months ago, At the time I didnt reinstate. But I did take Lyrica, I took a real high dose over 300mg, then my sleep problems was gone, and still is. I dont want to say that Lyrica is a miracle medicin, it has its own problems with coming tolerance and w/d. But the positive thing about it is that it is not an benzo, and actually dont act at the same place in GABA .

You could also take some of the benzo analogs also; ambien, zopiclone, they havent that long of a halflife.

I did reinstate yesterday or when it was, I took Valium, and I feel okay know, no w/d yet, but I´ve been free 5 months.

The anxiety was to high, wouldnt reinstate ever if it wasnt for that

Hi Evan

I too was prescribed Seroquel for "insomnia" by a Specialist Psychiatrist - the very same one who jumped me straight off 13 years of Benzos and Z-drugs.  Her first script was for 75mg which helped for about 3 weeks after which it had to be increased to 150mg which also was only effective for about 2 -3 more weeks and had to be updosed again.  I am never sure what was w/d from the Benzos and Zdrugs and what was the s/e from the Seroquel because I was so desperately ill at the time.  Would I take it again??  NO NEVER - As addictive as Z-drugs are I was never as sick taking them as I was when I was on Seroquel.

thefan, I know many buddies get relief from sedating antidepressants but unfortunately I had zero success with Trazadone, Valdoxan or Ampitreptaline.  I am yet to try Remeron but I do believe some of us are plain hard-core insomniacs for whom almost nothing else works  :'(

Do take Care

Mee 

I don't have much to add other than to say that I feel for you and hope you are able to get some sleep soon.  Sleep issues were always the reason I went to the benzos and nothing makes everything feel worse than not sleeping.  I think that you will eventually come out of this rough patch and will probably feel amazing once your sleep patterns return.  Benzos or not, the point of this is to feel better and if benzos can make your life better, I don't think there is any shame in that.  Sometimes we need to come off of them to feel better, and sometimes, though we try to avoid it, we need them to feel better.

My only other advice is to step back, let some information sink in, and don't let the doctors take total control here.  You don't want to end up on 50 different meds all within a short period of time because doctors want to experiment.  I've seen this cause more harm than good.  I think a slower, more well planned approach is needed here.

Well,

That's the truth if I ever heard it. I've been a crummy sleeper all my life. My parents used to talk about me as a baby in the car. When other babies would fall asleep on car trips, I'd apparently scream for the entire trip.

Even today, I'm still a crummy sleeper if I'm anticipating something early the next day. I usually will crash after a third day, thank goodness.

But watch all these attempts to drug you up. I've had my own doc try hard to Rx me meds for adult ADHD. Hey, I'm 62 already. I work. Very productive. Not gonna start the poly mental health drug mobile, period.

Intend

evertofan,

  i read all of the posts.  dont feel bad at all for taking benzos again, very understandable.  in terms of seroquel, i have been prescribed it for a number of years.  as you know it doesnt give you a good feeling, which is good.  there is no way you will abuse it.  i think you owe it to yourself to take it!

Hi evertonfan,

I think at this stage, you should make yourself comfortable. I have the Seroquel before. It does not do anything to me for sleep - but I only take max. 25 mg - a very low dose - so consider it a blessing instead of worrying - I know it is easier to say than to do.

In terms of stopping the drug, I find it very easy to quit and my doctor told me there is no dependency on this.

All the best,

JC

Yes there is is dependency, maybe not the same kind of physical dependency as there is to benzos, but there is definately dependancy on seroquel. Many people here have had to updose to get same results. Doctors think its safer option then benzos, thats why they say such things, theyd rather prescribe antipsychotics then benzos. Its pretty twisted because the new atypical antipsychotics, have pretty many side effects, and they havent been studied extensively because they are new, so alot of new issues might be known in 5-10 years from now.

Seroquel can make permanent brain damange, i think its even listed on the leaflet in the box.

Have faith and don't beat yourself up about it. I have to updose for a day for a 10+ hour plane ride and I've decided to not get mad at myself. Insomnia can be disabling, so think of what's more important and try to think in the "now". I started to feel guilty and unsure about it, but I said it is one day, one updose, and it's more beneficial and won't push my taper back. 

IMO, I would stay away from using anti-psychotics like Seroquel for insomnia. You wrote you have permanent problems due to Zyprexa, which is in the same class. These new atypical anti-psychotics are usually safe, but IMO, they are used too frequently for insomnia and sedation. The risks don't outweigh the benefits (unless people want permanent tics and massive weight gain?) to me anyways. I am okay with off-label use, but I have seen them get prescribed for too many off-label usages. I do not want to bash doctors; I only wish they wouldn't use these new AS's off label as often as they do. My nephew is 13 years old and has mild tardive dyskinesia/involuntary leg and arm movements every now and then from taking a GI med (that acts like an AS) when he was 11s years old. Hopefully they aren't permanent, and we're lucky that they're mild and infrequent.  We're waiting two years later... They seem to be decreasing at the least, but the poor kid is going through that Middle School stage which is awkward enough.

Have you heard of or considered the non benzo Rozarem? It's not addictive and there is no withdrawal because it works on Melatonin receptors and not GABA/benzodiazepine receptors. I think it is rather expensive and I am not sure if it's gone generic  yet. I received a free sample from my MD with 3 tablets when I was having issues with insomnia. It worked well. It did not knock me out in a bad way and there was no hangover or drowsiness in the morning. That was years ago and since my insurance coverage is very basic as I'm in the clergy, I could not afford the name brand. Maybe it is generic by now. I'm not sure, but maybe you can look into it. Best of luck, and sweet dreams of course.

-Matthew

Hi everyone

I have been in hospital for the last month trying to find a solution to my predicament that is no sleep for days on end. Sadly in the end Valium was considered to be the best way to get my sleep. We tried Seroquel but it is unpredicatable in the amount of sleep it provides and I don't like the way it stupifies me. I am also taking Largactil and Cogentin. I am not sleeping well and feel a great sense of despair that I have to use benzo again after such a long struggle to get of them. I am very worrried about the Largactil. I have also developed movement problems because of the immense anxiety I feel. Any words of encouragement would be extremly well achieved. I am especially  interested about other who have gone back to benzos but won through in the end.

Ivan

Sorry to hear about your struggles.  Before I ever found this board, I had been off of benzos once and went back on.  I was on for a year, went off for 2 months, then I was on another 3 months or so again.  The reason I started benzos again was because of debilitating insomnia.  I would be up for 4 or so days so I'd go to the doctor to get a scrip for benzos cause it seemed to be the only thing that would work.

Eventually, I learned that I had to bite the bullet and suffer immensely in order to get through the insomnia.  I would have to endure being up 5 days or a week, it was the only way.  The only way out was to go through it.

Now I'm sleeping a lot better and I have noticed some major improvements.  There will be really rough patches but it is possible to get through it.

Not sure if that helped but I hope you feel better soon..I know it seems like the insomnia is impossible to deal with but it does get better