Want to taper down from Ambiem 10 mg

I plan to post this to the Ambien tapering message forum

I've had a very rough couple of years and things have just started getting a bit better around Jan 15 this year after Adding Klonopin 1.5 mg at night to get better sleep/rest.  Right now I am taking Saphris 15 mg, which is a newer antipsychotic for treatment of schizophrenia & bipolar, I now have none of symptoms of schizophrenia or paranoia for about 3 months now.  I am not on this medicine because I am bipolar.  I am also taking Klonopin 1.5 mg as mentioned and Ambien 10 mg.  I stay in bed 10 hours per night (it's necessary or my day is really crappy - I also believe I need about 8 hours of sleep + 2 hours of rest since that is what I was doing before I got sick in Jan 2010) and I do get at least 7 hours of sleep per night now.

I am a little hesitant to stop taking Ambien because I know it becomes a nightmare when I have insomnia.  I become physcotic (I've had mania twice - possibly continuously while working at my new job and have had psychosis).  Things went really well for me up until about 1 year after I finished up building robots after I graduated with my Masters in computer science.  I joined a robotics company in Cambridge and just after 2 months of working there I had insomnia, had a brief psychotic disorder (I was speeding way too fast after missing an exit to get home).  I wish I never had taken the job.  I went back to work because it was my life's work on the line and planned to get better but was never successful again and could no longer work in Jan 2011.  Basically, I was on Seroquel for most of the time to sedate me, for better sleep, to counter the mania, and because I was hearing voices.  I believe the coworkers voices were present because I was deprived of sleep.  Nobody knows for certain if I have schizophrenia (my gut instinct tells me no even though I have had schizophrenia symptoms when deprived of needed sleep).  When I stopped taking my meds altogether in Mar 2011 I had phychosis (it may actually have started when I switched from Seroquel to Saphris which coincided with the phychosis but I wasn't sleeping some of the nights either even being on all the medicine) - it seems like now that I may have made a bad situation worse.  I was hospitalized a second time, then in partial hospitalization, and then at starlight for about a month which was a place for people with a severe mental illness to socialize.

I have recently tried to do high-tech things again to engage my mind starting in Jan 2012.  I am making some progress.  My memory is terrible (it probably went from being in the 85% percentile to 0.0000001% although lumosity says I rank in the 85% percentile for my age which I almost cannot believe), I cannot receive much vision of the past anymore and I cannot understand most TV - it's like a total waste of time.  I am living with my parents and in being well cared for.  I am trying to exercise & eat highly nutritious foods.

I think most people on Saphris are ok for the most part but the sleeping situation has got to improve for me to see improvements with my memory based on what I've read online regarding Ambien hurting memory.  I really like taking the Klonopin for the extended sleep/rest combination.  I have a plan with my psychiatrist for me to follow the cognitive behavioral therapy approach to improve my sleep.  I've restricted my sleep from 11 hours to 10 hours successfully and doing ok with no problems.  I am not sure I can restrict my sleep much more without having daytime functioning impairments although I am not at work so I could deal a little with impairments if I achieve the long-term goal to to improve my memory.

I know I need to be tired but explained to my psychiatrist about probably it may be unrealistic to follow through with sleep restriction as the cognitave behavior therapy (CTB) calls for.  She says it is ok to try it and is hoping to see success.  I am scared I may not sleep again on my own and might be hurting myself trying to taper.

Anyway, CTB calls for sleep restriction on the 2nd week and forever afterwords, followed by 1/2 the sleep medication dose the 3rd week two days of the week, 1/2 the sleep medication dose the 4th week four days of the week, and 1/2 the sleep medication dose the 5th week seven days of the week.  It is a 5 week program.  This is supposively the gold standard for overcoming insomnia and has been done for more than 10,000 patients.  My psychiatrist recommends following the program exactly with the exception of sleep restriction - although I intend to do my best to kick in my natural instinct to sleep by adherely as closely as I can possibly while not trying to set myself back any.  Instead of this my sister, who is a physciatric nurse, recommends going down more gradually from 10 mg, to 7.5 mg using the CTB program guidelines.  So in 3 weeks I'd be down to down to 7.5 mg, in 6 weeks I'd be down to 5 mg, in 9 weeks I'd be down to 2.5 mg, and in 12 weeks I would be off sleep medication.

I read in another post that gradual reduction could lead to some dependency or something still happening by a member with more than 10,000 posts on the forums here.  My sister says that since Klonopin is a benzo like Ambien that it would be easier for me to taper off then others who are not taking another benzo and I feel better knowing that I may have an advantage with withdrawing from the Ambien.  Should I adhere to the gold standard set by the CTB program for insomnia, listen to my sisters taper method, or is there another wiser tapering method for my degree of severity with not getting sleep.  I'd like to know that I am not messing myself or setting myself up for problems getting off of Ambien.  I have been on it for almost 2 1/2 years.

I plan to reduce my Ambien from 10 mg to 7.5 mg starting tonight and see how it goes.  Hopefully there is an expert on these forums that can advise me on the best tapering plan, which I will discuss with my sister and doctor.

Any advice/experiences that can be shared will be really appreciated!  Thanks so much for having a online support forum like this.

Hi Kalgoth,

Welcome to Benzo Buddies.  It looks like you have done some reading on the forum, we are happy you decided to join.

You do have a complicated medical history, is your doctor on board in terms of the ambien withdrawal?  There are many here who have been on both a benzo and a z drug like ambien.  I'm sure they will chime in here and give your information and advise.

Please feel free to ask questions, we are here to help.

pianogirl

My doctor is on board with the ambien withdrawl.  I been thinking about it since mid February this year but it never seemed like a good time until I started to make some progress again myself.

I just started the taper last night and instead of going down by 2.5 mg I decided to eyeball it and chopped about 1 mg off the 10 mg pill.  I lost about an hour of sleep and that was the only side effect so far.  I went to sleep at 11:15, woke up at 6, and got up around 6:30.  My normal time I get up is 9 so I expect to have it a little rough towards the end of the day, but then I can hopefully sleep better tonight, at least according to the sleep restriction theory.  I was full of energy when I awoke which is much different then usual.  I hope it goes this well for awhile but I know it is probably going to get tough.

I saw on the site that the recommended taper is 10 % every 7-14 days and so the first night I went ahead with that.  I talked it over with my sister afterwords about tapering this way and she approves.  She said the alternating up and down between full and 1/2 dosages is not how they taper meds at work.  I don't see any point at this time in discussing tapering less gradually with my doctor.  Maybe if I can't go lower without symptoms, I will just stay at that dose for awhile and then seek help on the forums more, my sister, and from my doctors.

Hi Kalgoth,

Yes your sister is correct. Yo Yo-ing of dose amounts just confuses the central nervous system.  I think you are doing the right thing by following the 10 guidelines. 

It sounds like your sleep was pretty good last night, losing just 1 hour isn't too bad.

Please continue to ask questions, you can also post to the various boards as well.

pianogirl

Hi Kalgoth,

Welcome from me also.

Good luck with your taper and we hope that you settle in well with us here.. There is plenty of good information here and there are a few members with drawing from ambien.  One that I know of is called Meee, her blog is here http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=45824.0

You could check in with her.

May I ask you to create a signature line.  That way members can tell at a glance what medications you are taking and what dose.  Here's how: At the top of the page go to profile, then forum profile, type in the signature box and customize to save.

Betsy xxxx