The Klonopin Klub

Yo Klub. Happy Sunday!

 

Sun, I wanted to reach out to you first thing. First, it's not a crime that you ended up taking something last night to help you. I think we all understand the urge/need to reinstate when the going gets unbearable. I think a lot of people are successful on the Ashton method. Here in the Klub it seems like people use all kinds of methods to get through. Take Brian (hi Brian!) who is taking his time and monitoring himself and being good to himself in the process. Both he and I (and Rek, I think) feel that meditation is a great tool. I also think that turning to the Klub is a great way to keep your sanity . People say "it's not you, it's the disease." For me, I know that's true. Good luck, my friend!

 

Lynn, thanks for checking in. Yay, those windows of time where you are clear! I remember them so well. I know that these windows get bigger and bigger until they are all that you know again, and it is so good to get back to life. Enjoy - that is so wonderful.

 

SkyZ, when do you start titration? I'm eager to see your journey - we are all behind you!

 

Rek, your sense of humor kicks butt! I literally Laughed Out Load re Invasion of the Monstrous Backhoe. How about Revenge of the Water Pipes? Son Of Boiler Part 2? I could go on, you know...how good about your 6 hours being ok. I had 7 1/2 last night but AGAIN had nightmares. These nightmares suck and I wish so much they would go away. For years I woke up with a panic attack every day. Took Klonopin, mellowed out, dragged myself through the day. I think the nightmares are exhausting me. I mean, even though I dreamed I was in America's Next Top Model College Edition, it was not fun. Blah!

 

As for me, I'm ok. Ever since my 20k pay cut, we've been budgeting tightly. We make a nice salary together but we're still reaching for some semblence of "comfortable". We can go away here and there, eat healthy stuff, buy books and puzzles and games, but we always try to be satisfied holding back. We each get an "allowance" every 2 weeks to spend as we want. So things are more or less ok. We decided not to have kids (and I'm finally at the age where people don't say "you're still young" anymore, thank God) because we married very late (I was 41, he was 37) and just wanted to enjoy each other's company. Also, I was in no shape to be a mom. Thank you again, Klonopin!

 

Yesterday we took a drive out to west NJ and were driving parallel to the Delaware River. We drove past really old homes, really huge homes. It just amazes me how, post-Klonopin, I can enjoy this. Cozy and comfortable in my own skin - who knew? We stopped at a place that had a bonfire outside in a firepit and just sat and enjoyed the heat and smells of burning wood and ash. I often get pissed off that I was robbed of 20 years of this. But trying to make up for it now.

 

Last for today is that I remembered, as my husband played computer role-playing games for hours last night, that 6 months ago I had nothing to do while he did that and got resentful. Nothing to do, really?? How about books and games and scrabble and good TV? Why did I not think of that on Klonopin? Where was I? Again, just trying to make up for it now.

 

Friday we are going to Philly for the weekend - it's our sweet nephew's 4th birthday. What a kid he is. Can't wait!

 

So on with the day. I think I want to be a couch potato today. Why not? Have a great November day, everyone! 

 

 

Sundowner,

 

.125 mgs of K is equal to 2.5 mgs of Valium.

 

Equation for you:  .5 K : 10 V = .125 K : unknown amount V.

 

                              10 V x .125 K = 1.25 K

 

                              1.25 K /.5 = 2.5 V

 

That's the math. If I'm incorrect, will someone else please check and correct this today? I'm headed off to work in a bit. But I'm fairly sure this is right.

 

Intend

 

 

 

 

Sundowner, go easy on yourself: I think Jaxy's advice is good, and her reassurance apt--please don't, on top of everything else, judge yourself for responding as best you know how to your own acute distress.  Sometimes it's just too much to cope with.  You can still get free of this stuff, all in good time; I don't see why there'd be any harm in trying the Ashton method after all.  I do definitely agree with Jax and Brian about meditation, by the way.  I'm still working on using meditation to better effect--I don't do it as consistently as I know I ought to; sometimes I'm just too wiped out.  But I've found it to make a noticeable difference in how I feel overall.  And even breathing deeply, as Jax reminded us a few messages back, is a really good thing to do from time to time.  It sends extra oxygen to your brain, with physiological benefits, and works psychologically as a relaxation technique at the same time.

 

Intend, thank you for the stats--I don't have the knowledge to assess accuracy on this kind of thing, but others may, or perhaps the figures can be verified by doing multiple online searches (I haven't tried this yet--just opened up here and wanted to respond).

 

Jax, I'm glad if I can give you a laugh!  And I like your suggested additions, or sequels/prequels to the Backhoe Story, although I hope there won't BE any actual sequels--this one episode's given us a good year's worth of stress, if not five, or ten, or . . .   

 

Hey, Lizie, if you're reading this, I'm wondering if you've discovered anything safe (i.e. relatively mild and definitely non-addictive) to take for your neck?  I hope you're able to get some relief!  My own neck problems are not as severe as yours, but they are bothersome--if I could find benign relief in some mild medication, I'd try it.  Ibuprofen doesn't seem to do anything much for it, though.

 

Sky, Brian, Genoa, Lynn, Amy BookLamp, EVERYONE I haven't already mentioned by name--hoping for a peaceful day for you all -

 

Rek

 

 

 

 

Hi everyone!

 

To answer your question, Rek, I have found massage, hot showers and vanishing scent bengay help.  The latter gives heat within about twenty minutes. 

Sometimes, a collar can help me for a while but then can suddenly become intolerable. 

What works one day may be different another day. 

 

My husband has become very good at massaging my neck!  I have trained him well !!  LOL  This became necessary when I discovered the horror of a chiropractic massage ........ she just wouldn't stop and kept saying  "you're not supposed to enjoy it" LOL

 

I wish you well ..... lifting, of course, is a definite no/no ..... walking also helps.  Sitting too much and being on the computer makes it worse ........ I am now going to take my own advice .......... to stop typing and go for a walk ........

 

Take care,

Lizie

Hello,

I want to taper off my dose of clonazepam. I take between 1 mg to 2 mg per day. Have been taking on average 1 mg per day for over 12 years.

I am from North America but now live in Northern Europe. I have no support - ie. friends or family - here.

 

I thought starting to taper off in a hospital would be a good choice.

But I still think I will need to take something for anxiety. But I am under the impression that there are other medications which help with anxiety which are better than clonazepam.

I also take 40mg of citralopram a day but I think I will first "go off" the clonzepam before making any decisions about stopping citralopram.

 

Given the long taper period clonazepam I was told that I would probably be seen only in an out-patient capacity. But I think I need some support to "get going" on the tapering off.

I must say I am a bit taken aback by statements that a "full withdrawal" will take years - 1-2 years.

 

I was hoping some of you with experience would have some comments and suggestions. thank you

bkirche

Hi

Is anyone losing their hair? I've been off klon since 8/15/12. I started losing a significant amount of hair in September. I'm curious if it will stop falling out or should I start wig shopping. Anyone have experience with this?

BTW - I also have stiff muscles. Weirdest is my right foot. It hurts so bad that I can hardly walk. I actually walk with a limp now.

I'm still able to go to work. I disguise all of my ailments by attributing them to other things. i.e. injuries, flu, migraines....I'm the master of lies. This is truly a nightmare that I'm living.

My hair is thinning so badly that it's starting to look like male pattern baldness. I don't think I'm going to be able to come up with a believable lie to explain this away. Not to mention the loss of eyelashes and eyebrows.  :'(

Hi, BKirche -

 

Well, to begin with, it would definitely be a good idea for you to get some specific advice on how to taper off clonazepam while still taking citralopram.  My own situation was that, by the time I got to my third (and at last successful) attempt to quit, the ONLY thing I was taking that had any mind-altering or mood-altering effect (apart from sparing use of a non-prescription gaba-support supplement called Kavinace, which I used specifically for sleep while tapering) was clonazepam, so I didn't really have to take into consideration the effects of one drug on another while managing withdrawal.  I'm not sure a full withdrawal HAS to take years, but I'm speaking as someone who never took more than 1mg of clonazepam in any 24-hour period, and who was on the medication for less than three months.  My big mistake was doing much too rapid a taper (I went from 1mg to .75 to .5 and then off, in a matter of something like two or three weeks)--I paid for this pretty heavily in the severity, and possibly the tenacity of withdrawal symptoms; I don't think I'm symptom-free even now, three months out.  But I felt ENOUGH better in the space of ten days after my last dose of clonazepam, that the rapid taper seemed worth it to me.  I DO NOT recommend this precipitate approach, however, ESPECIALLY to someone who's been on the drug so much longer than I was.  You should probably consider titration; a look at the Ashton Manual, which you can easily find online, might be a good place to start, but there is plenty of sound advice at this web site, too, and you'll get a good sense here of the variety of people's experiences with addiction to and withdrawal from benzodiazepines.  It is too bad that you feel a lack of immediate in-person support in the place where you are now, but you will find warm and caring responses here, and people who genuinely want to help you through this experience.  So please keep in touch, and ask lots of questions.  I'm limited in answers I can supply, because my own benzo-addiction/withdrawal experience was fairly brief and limited (for which I'm thankful), but I like to try to offer moral support wherever I can.  Many others here are more knowledgeable than I am--by the way, the site administrators are also an excellent resource: they have had a lot of exposure, both in their own lives and through monitoring this site, to all the different aspects of this issue, and their insights, as well as those offered by us ordinary folks who just post, can be very helpful.

 

Good luck, and let us know how you manage.

 

Rek

 

Lizie, thanks for the tips!  My husband gives nice massages, too, and you're right--it helps a lot.  The warning about chiropractors is useful, too, as I've been on the fence about whether to consult a chiropractor.  I wonder about acupuncture--nother thing I'm dithering about.  Meanwhile, although alas I simply can't avoid daily lifting, there are other things over which I have more control: you're right, for instance, about being at the computer too much.  I should follow your example and go out walking on what is here a very pretty day.  I hope you're enjoying, or did enjoy, your walk!

 

Rek

I cooked Chile Con Carne...I promised I would, and I did! Maybe gone are the days when I promised I would do something and got too tired to follow through because I was so tired from the Klonopin? I hope...

 

Hope, welcome to the KK. I think my hair is thinning too, but the women in my family have that in their genes as they hit middle age. For me, I can't say definitively if it's drug-related or not. Maybe it could be genetic for you too?

 

BK, welcome too. I can imagine it can be isolated out there. I was also a 2mg daily Klonopin user from 1997-2012 (Xanax before that, 1992-1997). I'm also a c/t person, and I'm not sure if my w/d c/t is different from those who are tapering. Obviously it didn't take me a year to get off - it took 6 days - but from what I understand this is highly dangerous and perhaps my docs were not being responsible. As far as an alternative, from what I understand Citalopram works well in conjunction with Buproprian (Wellbutrin) - kind of a yin/yang effect - but I'm not a doc, just have read a bit.

 

So, just jumping in for a moment, jumping out. Hugs to all!

 

 

Thank you so much everyone for your kind responses!

Since taking that tiny bit of klonopin yesterday I have realised that I was bed ridden because, and solely because, I didn't taper off slowly enough.

Only people who have gone through this hell (and especially those of us who have ct'd) can possibly understand it.

K-Klub

 

I had a pretty nice weekend; although surely not symptom free.  Not looking forward to going back to work tomorrow.  Last week seemed to get more stressful each day until Friday which was unbearable.  I am hoping for a better week.

 

Thanks Rek for always giving me a personal response.  It means a lot to me.  I guess I find writing on here therapeutic.  Everything I feel can be thoughtfully written out and then sort of sent out into the universe.

 

Thanks to all you guys.

 

brian

Good luck at work tomorrow, Brian! Keep us in the loop. 

 

jaxnj

Hello Klub!  SkyZone Checkin in! 

 

I want to be off of benzos even more now, since I found out it could cause bone loss and teeth problems!!    I wonder if it is just certain benzos that cause this or if Klonopin even does or not?  Since this is the Klonopin Klub, can anyone tell me if there is any evidence at all to show that klonopin causes bone loss and teeth problems?  Thanks.  This is making me nervous thinking about the possibility of my bones becoming brittle!    Blessings!

 

-SkyZone-

 

 

Hey, all -

 

Just a quick comment, inspired partly by some of the latest posts (Brian, Sundowner, Jax).  I love the good will that abounds at this thread.  Kindness can do so much.  Thank you all.

 

Hope, my hair's getting thinner, but, like Jax, I suspect age as the culprit--also like Jax, can't be sure that the drug has nothing at all to do with it.  I hope your hair-loss will ease up and you won't feel that it's actually bad enough to make you self-conscious!  Hang in there -

 

Rek

Dear Intend To Be Off,

Thanks so much for working out the Valium dose- you are right by the way. 

 

Picked up a script for valium from a new doctor today!

 

To Jaxny and Rekroywen,

thank you for the support and kind words. I think what we are going through is such an extreme experience. I feel so much closer to you guys than I do to any of my friends.

 

I'm trying to work on my cognition, memory etc so that I can participate more fully on this site. I really do struggle to compose posts and it takes me forever to right something simple down.

I'm thankful that I am back taking a little bit benzo so that I can relax a little bit and live a little bit during this whole process!

Love Sun 

 

Sundowner,

 

Glad to be of help, and glad you saw a new doctor and got an Rx for Valium. Now that you're going on such a small dose (2.5 Mg), you will most likely want to drop your doses by very small amounts as in parts of a Mg rather than whole mgs.

 

I tend to feel the Ashton taper is too aggressive, and especially at such  a low dose of 2.5 mgs. Perhaps you will consider a liquid titration of your Valium using milk and microtaper the amount you are on.

 

Of course, I would follow your doctors recommendations. However, a very small cut done each day is shown to be kinder on the healing of the GABA receptors rather than dropping a set amount and

holding for 10-14 days.

 

 

Well, I am home from work again, and just taking it easy as these weekends are tiring. Just watched the latest episode of "Dexter" on Showtime, and getting ready for bed. Getting up at 4:30 and working all day is wearing. Planning on a good nights sleep.

 

We're taking care of our  daughters cats all week, plus I have a ton of errands to complete this week, and another work related meeting on Wednesday. Tomorrow will be a "take it easy day" but generally means just a few less things to do.

 

On Wednesday, I will also be making another exchange of Xanax for klonopin. I'm getting very close to being on the full amount of K. Then I will equalize the doses, begin milk doing for several weeks, and then begin a microtaper.

 

So I'm off to bed now. I'm actually in it on my iPad.

 

Intend

About Hair Loss,

I'm 33 years old and my hair has been falling out a lot more this year. i don't know if it's due to my w/d from klonopin.

Sun 

 

 

I'm still here; just took a break for a few days.

 

Hope, I lost about half my hair over the course of a few years.  I started taking biotin, MSM, and silica (and working on reducing stress), and it really helped.  I haven't been losing at more than an average rate since I started with those supplements about nine months ago.  I don't take them reliably now, but I don't seem to need them.

 

Some people are very sensitive to supplements while tapering.  I started taking them before I ever started tapering.  But even now, they don't bother me.

S.O.S                                S.O.S                                      S.O.S                        S.O.S

I have to make a decision on a new taper schedule within a few days.  I have been taking K for 2 years 1-3mg/day, but 2mg/day average for the last year.  I really want to do a 0.25mg/day dose reduction every 30 days.  I feel this would be alright.  The thought of titration makes me cringe.  It would take me ages to taper like that.  I think I am already experiencing tolerance withdraw, so titration would most likely be a nightmare for me.  I have also thought of protracted withdraw syndrome and don't want that to happen.  I am willing to suffer some mild to moderate withdraw symptoms to accomplish this.  I don't even mind having to deal with a few months of protracted withdraw if it happens.  Please help me out with some responses with an open mind.  Thanks

 

-SkyZone-

Hi again SkyZone! I’m new to this too, and taking a smaller dose than you are, but what I can tell you is that when I tried going down by .125 every month, I knew by the second cut it was too fast. If I made my second cut that would have been half my original dose though, and I know that makes a big difference. I would make sure you are as stable as you are going to get, and try a cut at .25 and see what happens. If it doesn’t work you will probably know fast, and you could go back up and then try a smaller cut. That’s what I did, and I don’t think it hurt anything as long as your doses aren‘t all over the place all the time. My most recent cut has gone pretty well. I do know that I have spent hours tonight researching benzo withdrawal, especially K, and there is evidence of protracted withdrawal symptoms with a faster tapers. 

 

I’m working on getting over the whole “what will happen if I cut now, how much should I cut” deal. I’m going to make sure I’m pretty stable, make a cut and see what happens. If I have to stop and go slower, that’s cool. If I don’t, that’s even better 

 

I know others think it is a good idea to have a schedule though. I’m interested to see what the more experienced buddies have to say though.

Thanks Tranq.  That sounds great but I am going through tolerance withdraw right now at my regular dose, so wouldn't it be better to taper a little faster in my case?

Man, I don’t know. I do know that when I asked around at first people told me take it slower. . . I didn’t, and it was not cool at all. I’m still not going at the rate people suggest, and I might regret that with my next cut. I just wouldn’t want you to cut too much and spiral out of control only to end up back where you started. I know what this stuff can do to your head, especially when cutting down on it. Maybe a compromise of .125 every two weeks and see what happens with that? At least then it wouldn’t be such a huge jump at a time.

 

We all do this at our own pace though, and I totally understand wanting to kick this stuff to the curb. Just listen to your body, and try not to be to rigid with your schedule. I’m sure others will be along soon to let you know what they think.

 

One way or another you’ll get it done 

Thanks 

Wow, lots of stuff to respond to here.  Good morning dear friends.  I'll respond to more posts later when I'm not rushed, but first SKYZONE, I HAD NOT HEARD that about bone loss, etc.--yikes.  This scares me, because a bone scan I had a few years ago came up sort of mediocre.  Anyway, more to the point, you have an S.O.S. out--some people have already responded, likely with more insight than I may be able to provide, but I'm rooting for you.  You are probably feeling the urgency more now because of the bone-loss question, even if it's uncertain.  I'm going to look into this, at any rate.  If I find out anything that seems useful, I'll let you all know.

 

Sending warm thoughts out to all -

 

Rek

S.O.S                                S.O.S                                      S.O.S                        S.O.S

I have to make a decision on a new taper schedule within a few days.  I have been taking K for 2 years 1-3mg/day, but 2mg/day average for the last year.  I really want to do a 0.25mg/day dose reduction every 30 days.  I feel this would be alright.  The thought of titration makes me cringe.  It would take me ages to taper like that.  I think I am already experiencing tolerance withdraw, so titration would most likely be a nightmare for me.  I have also thought of protracted withdraw syndrome and don't want that to happen.  I am willing to suffer some mild to moderate withdraw symptoms to accomplish this.  I don't even mind having to deal with a few months of protracted withdraw if it happens.  Please help me out with some responses with an open mind.  Thanks

 

-SkyZone-

 

Please, someone help me.