The Klonopin Klub

Hi bill and welcome to the KK ,

 

Not sure what you mean by your doc. "sort of " controlling your taper but I have some concerns about the .5mg cut you started out with. I did the same size cut to start and found myself in trouble. The twitching, spasms, and other severe symptoms were what brought me to BB and a conversation with my doc. I told her about the Ashton Manuel and the recommended 5% to 10% cut every 2 week period to avoid getting slammed with w/d. Is it possible for you to print the info and bring it to your doc? I feel that for your doc to suggest a 1mg. cut is crazy. He/she must not know that that is equal to 20 mgs. of valium. Many of us have had to school our doctors as to the REAL facts about K. I hope yours will be open minded. If not, maybe look for one who is benzo wise.

 

I truly wish you all the best. Keep us posted as to your situation. There are many caring and experienced members here who are willing to listen and help.

 

blessings,

hopeful2013

Good morning all -

 

Rushing off to administer a final exam in a few minutes, but . . .

 

Hopeful, you're wonderful--thank you for all the thoughts!  As for the MSG, there are some Chinese restaurants that make a point of NOT putting MSG in their food--perhaps worth checking to see whether any in your area might have this policy.  It would be nice to be able to enjoy one of your favorite foods without ill consequences!

 

Peace2, I think the emotions flooding back in are a sign that a degree of benzo-induced numbness may be wearing off.  The ultimate effect of this is a very nice one, in my experience.  I really understand what Jax meant when she would talk about feeling alive again.  Have fun with your children!

 

Take good care of yourselves, everyone!

 

Peace,

 

Rek

Hi folks,

I'm new to BB, and was directed here by another member. I'm also new to forums so I apologize if I don't post correctly, or need help with how threads work. First off, it is tremendously uplifting that there is a community here that is filled with great people sharing their struggles. That alone is going to help us all recover. I look forward to hearing what is working for others, and sharing what has/hasn't worked for me.

 

I've specifically come to the Clonazepam group because I'm currently taking .5mg daily for anxiety/panic. I started at 1mg daily in Aug. 2012, and am currently in my 2nd attempt to taper off. Both times I made it very close to the end when my panic symptoms returned with a vengeance. I think I want to try the liquid titration method. Any information on how to get a schedule, or just any experiences with this method would be much appreciated. I look forward to hearing from you.

Hi, Julie:

 

If you're have w/d symptoms, you might want to try taking your Klonopin 3 or even 4 times a day, at equal time intervals. I would change over gradually.

 

Aweigh

 

That's what I did and it worked great!

Hi:

 

I am brand new to the KK and am glad to be here. Trying to read the 500+ pages is exhausting, but I did want to put in my  2 cents about the gabapentin. Years ago I was put on a high dose 5,000 mg, to help me detox from xanax. Tying to get off neurontin was harder than getting off of benzos. They had to put me on a high dose of valium for a week to get it out of my system. I couldn't drop 100 mg at a time without feeling unbearable anxiety and D/P, D/R.

 

Doing my current taper of K, my doc put me on 1,000 mg of Gab. and I dropped it down to 500 mg after two weeks with little problem, because I was on it for such a short period of time. Now I'm stuck on 500 mg and plan to taper off that ASAP. I shouldn't have let him put me back on it, but he insisted, and I have always followed his advice. I'll know I'll regret it.

benzogirl,

 

I am so very irritated that I was given an rx for gabapentin after being in w/d for 1 year. This was from the Dr. that prescribed my klonopin for years. After watching me be so sick and also so focused on getting through this it makes me nuts that the ignorance still abounds.

Hi guys,

my brain and body are getting used to the last cut.

My recent story of tapering tells that I suffer the most severe WDs within the first 2 days after the cut. Then my body reacts and I get hungry and overexcited and sleeping gets more and more difficult. After some days, another wave of tiredness and muscular fatigue comes, I manage to sleep, but daytime tiredness becomes heavy, and that's the point I make the cut. And the cycle restarts.

 

After severe WD, two weeks ago and also the last one, I managed to reach 0.2 mgs on last wednesday, had a horrible mood thursday and friday, but now I have almost recovered.

I am planning to keep 0.2 mgs (that is two drops of Rivotril 2.5) for some days and then start microtapering with a 30 milliliters syringe, in order to reduce the overexcitation (that brought me two weeks ago a temporary block of the right masseter muscle).

 

But that is not the whole story.

 

Yesterday my girlfriend left me after 16 years of relationship.. it is very bad... considering i am 33 yo, i have spent with her approximately 50% of my life. Everything reminds me our past, there is nothing I did in the last 16 years without sharing it with her.

I feel empty and alone, and I think i have lost the most important pillar of my battle against my vertigo and benzos.

Still i am here, and I have no other choice but to keep with tapering and exercise myself against those damn vertigo.

I think I have not totally realized what has happened to me yet.

I do not want to go in depth of this, it was just to share with you that life, sometimes, kicks you with a problem and then adds another one and another one, all together.

 

This is a huge try.

 

Ciao

Hey trader,

 

I am sorry to hear about your split with your GF. My BF and I went through all of this within the last few months. We are still together and trying to see if we can still make it work. The w/d makes all of it so much harder. I have been in w/d for 1 year and still having a very tough time. I jumped from klonopin on June 19 and was put on valium to make it more mangeable When I am not sick my life is good. Every cut has flatted me especially after going below 1 mg.  I am not in good shape this morning. Hang in there. It will all be worth it when it is over.

good morning kklubbers,

 

Yikes. It is very difficult me me to sit at my desk and type. I am 14 days past my cut and now officially sick as a dog. I think it will likely be this way for me after every cut now. I really did think that I caught a break this time. I had plans yesterday. I was to go check on my nephew and see how he was feeling after his ski accident and then take my 14 year old niece Christmas shopping at the biggest mall in the county. My nephew is doing well. I was sick when I got there. I had a beautiful teenaged girl looking in my eyes with so much happiness (shopping!) that I said-'ok, I can do this.' I knew it was not a good idea. We drove and she told me about every inch of her life. School, clothes, boys et all. We got to the mall and had to park in the outer 40. A long walk. My boots got heavier with every step. That was the easy part. The mall was a grid lock. So noisy and so packed. I am claustrophobic anyway. I stayed there for 2 1/2 hours. I was really sick but I did it. I woke up this morning and the house feels like it is spinning around me. The deep bone pain is back. My stomach is rolling. Heave ho. Feeling very alone. I should have waited until after New Years to cut. I am hoping that in 10 days when Christmas day comes I will be a bit more level.

 

Forging ahead in Colorado

Good morning, all -

 

Welcome, Benzogirl and Wondernova--don't worry about "not posting correctly"--I think the only rules here are to be kind and civil to one another and to be careful to avoid expressing ourselves about our problems in such a way as to frighten other Buddies unnecessarily.  Other than that, there's no "correct" or "incorrect," that I know of.

 

Trader, I'm so very sorry about your emotional loss--that does indeed raise the stakes of your challenge with the medications; for whatever it's worth, though, you are far from alone.  I've read so many posts here from people whose marriages or other relationships were foundering or had ended, often with clear indications that the disruptions of benzo dependence and/or withdrawal had played a role.  I hope you can find the sources of strength you need to help you through this.  Do you have friends or family whom you're close to, who can support you and be there for you?  BenzoBuddies is here for you, at any rate.

 

ColoradoChick, what a marathon of a day you had yesterday--with a heavy price to pay afterward, it seems.  Can you just rest and sort of pamper yourself today?  Drink hot tea or take warm baths, or whatever you find soothing?  Be gentle with yourself--wishing you a wide window.

 

Wishing those wide, refreshing windows to everyone -

 

Peace,

 

Rek

.....

Trader, I'm so very sorry about your emotional loss....

 

Do you have friends or family whom you're close to, who can support you and be there for you?  BenzoBuddies is here for you, at any rate.

....

 

Thank you for your words Rek,

yes my family and friends are definitely helping me.

You know after soo many years you sit on the sofa of your relationship, and sometimes your social behavior gets narrower, by the way i have some phone numbers to pick from the dust and try to go out more often.

The big issue now is that here in Europe everybody is travelling abroad for winter holidays within the next three weeks.. or.. people stay at home with their faimilies... my GF and I were supposed to party Christmas here and then go and visit Slovenia, but now I am stuck.

And you know, when you suffer from vertigo and you are getting off benzos, the last thing you want is book a flight or a group tour with perfect "unknown" people.. what if i get a migraine attack during a tour, say, to Caribbean islands or Israel? what if i get a vertigo attack or a severe WD during a visit of a Chinese temple?

I am fragile to be here all alone at home, as well as fragile to make such a huge jump during my recovery.

 

Well,

time will heal...

 

best wishes buddies 

Hey KK:

 

Hope everyone has been well.  From the few posts I read it sounds like some ups and downs as the usual per benzo withdrawal.

 

I have had a really great week. I have been basically symptom free for 10 days or so.  Occasional heart palpitations and low anxiety with occasional high anxiety states.  Compared to how I was feeling a couple weeks ago, this feels very stable.

 

I see my psychiatrist next week.  I plan on trying to stay on my current dose (.75mg K daily).  Maybe in a couple months I will try to reduce from .75mg K daily to .625mg K daily.  Then maybe in four month's time to taper from .625mg K daily to .5mg K daily.  The previous attempt to taper from .75mg K daily directly to .5mg K daily was an epic failure.  Once I get to .5mg K daily, I will prob have to come up with a new plan.  It will feel like progress to safely get to .5mg K daily.

 

I have about a 3 weeks supply left of the .125mg K Wafers (taking 2 wafers x 3 daily to get .75mg K daily).  I'm taking the .125mg Wafers because I had been planning to taper down to .325mg daily by now.  Ha!  My experience with Klonopin Wafers has not been that great.  The Wafer can not be broken in half like all other K pills - I had thought I could break it into 2 doses of .0625 K for smaller tapering .  It comes in single dissolvable Wafers that are individually sealed.  So instead of a single small bottle, I have been carrying around these bulky packages of six  individually packed Wafers (each package about the size of a deck of cards).  These Wafers are meant to be dissolved on the tongue and are incredibly fragile.  When I open the packet it, it often crumbled into powder an I have to lick what is left of it get my dose.  I feel like a crazy junky doing this in the bathroom at work, or wherever I am.  A single pill is much more discreet.  I am definitely going to ask my psych if I can switch back to the .25mg K pills - they can easily be cut in half anyway to achieve a .125mg dose.  This has been my experience with the Wafers - if they work for you; more power to ya.

 

So I did have a consultation with a psychiatrist who specializes in getting patients off benzos.  I have to say it was pretty remarkable.  He exclusively uses the Ashton Method.  He would do an immediate cross over to Valium with me - .75mg K to 15mg Valium.  He would lower by 1 mg Valium every 2 weeks of so.  He believes in treating the w/d symptoms immediately with holistic methods (weekly acupuncture and daily 30 minute cardio) and adjunct meds (antidepressants, beta-blockers and Remeron).  He also requires that his patients have a therapist to treat any primary or underlying issues. I am also required to sign a waiver that I will not drink alcohol during the w/d process.  I am required to see him every 2 weeks.  Most of his patients are full-time working professionals and students - so he understands I must remain functional enough to work during this process. 

 

The only catch with him is that I would have to be willing to go along with ALL of his methods, including the adjunct meds, to treat the w/d symptoms.  I already do acupuncture and exercise sporadically but it would be great to be held accountable to someone to keep it regular for my mental health.  I already have a weekly therapist for depression and anxiety issues.  I've already been sober for sometime so there is no issues there.  I already take an antidepressant and am not opposed to beta-blockers.  The Remeron and other possible meds make me a little nervous.  He explained that I would also have to taper from the Remeron one day.  He basically sees benzos as the most difficult drug to come off and that tapering off Remeron or other adjunct meds at a later point as secondary.  I see his point but I am still a little wary.

 

The other issue is the cost.  He is not under my insurance.  He costs $250 a session and a minimum of 2 sessions a month; that's a $500 bill monthly.  Yikes.  I'm already on a tight budget.

 

So I have a lot to think about.  My plan at the moment is to get to .5mg K with my current psych and then crossover to this speciality psych once I am well stabilized a .5mg K.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

Be well all.

 

Brian

Brian....I think it is great that you seem to have found  benzo literate Dr. I have been let down repeatedly in this area. As recently as last week. I have come to believe that they are worth the money. I would b very interested in knowing how it goes. Best of luck to you.

 

:thumbsup:CC

Brian, it is good to hear you have found someone to help you.  For me it would be a little too controlling, I liked knowing someone had my back but I was pretty much in charge of what I took, how I took it and how much I took.  I do know they have to cover their liability.  Tapering in a way that minimizes w/d sx does not follow prescribing guidelines from the manufacturer and so they can get in trouble when they prescribe outside those guidelines.  It is great that you don't have to explain Ashton to him.  Good Luck.    Welcome to all newbies   CC:  sorry to hear you are ailing.  TT:  the most important thing for you is to get off this dg and then figure the rest out.  I value my privacy so much it is difficult to understand sometimes how people can become so undone... especially around the holidays. (Although, I can think back to my younger days and remember lonliness).  I liked being alone when I was in the throes of the worst of it because for so long it freaked people out to be around me and so I could "be weird" in private without it compromising my relationships.  Now that I'm on the low end of my taper and I'm more in control of myself, I'm able to explore both old friendships that became strained and reach out to ones.  The thing is... you need to have a strong sense of self to do this and that's just not compatible w/ those feelings of loss.  You can't just shrug off feelings of loss but you can put them on a shelf and look at them another day.    Good Luck.  Njoy

Hey folks -

 

Almost dinner time, so I'm just checking in very briefly.  I checked by PM on JKS, and she asked me to let you guys know she's all right.  It's a bumpy road, and she hasn't felt up to checking in here, but she didn't want you guys to worry.

 

Hugs to all.

 

Peace,

 

Rek

Hi K Klub,

 

Wondernova I titrated .5mg K and would be happy to help if I can. I don't think there is anyone who officially makes up schedules. How many times a day do you dose? First I would suggest that you go to Youtube and search Titration Clonazepam (klonopin). I watched the videos a few times to get comfortable with the process before I began. I found it to be a very easy method after I did it a couple of days. Welcome to the Klub .

 

benzogirl Welcome to KK. Glad you joined us and appreciate your input. .I don't understand doctors decisions either. Fortunately there is this forum filled with people who IMO know a whole lot more from their life experience than the so called professionals.

 

Colorado chick Wow, the mall trip while feeling sick had to be so hard. I hope that between now and Christmas that you can just take it easy both physically and emotionally to get into balance. I'm touched by your devotion to family. You are a very generous person. Sending a hug and well wishes.

 

thetrader I'm glad you have friends and family to help you through this. Getting out when you can will help too. Like Njoy I preferred to be alone as much as I could. For me, when I was around people I felt that there was expectations of me that I couldn't fulfill so to be alone was much more comfortable, less stressful. Managing stress in w/d is very important. We're here for you too. Wishing you peace.

 

brian So nice that you checked in and very glad to hear that you're feeling better  . I was wondering if you did a search here to see what kind of experience other members have had getting off remeron? I really hate to be a downer here but I have concerns about any med. that requires tapering after experiencing this K nightmare. I was lucky enough to be ( in charge) of my K taper. I emailed my doc my plan and she wrote the scrips. I emailed my progress every 2 weeks.  I do hope you find what is comfortable for you.

 

rek There are several good Chinese places near me. I will make some calls, there has to one that is MSG free.

 

Njoy, Peace2 and All other Klubmates Greetings and well wishes. I always feel like I'm in good company here. I appreciate all of you . Hoping everyone has the best week possible and that each day gets better and better.

 

Blessings,

hopeful2013

 

Hi all,

 

I'm visiting from the Diazepam thread and hoping to get some help for a friend who is trying to come off Klonopin.

 

He has actually managed to taper from 4mgs down to .5 on his own, following his doctor's plan. Needless to say, it has been brutal but he is still standing.

 

From what I have read, this last bit can be the hardest for all of us. I'd like to help him devise a taper plan that will allow him to continue functioning if possible. He has kids and a business to run.

 

I'd love the advice of some of the veterans here on a taper rate that might be manageable. He thinks he will be able to get liquid from his doctor, and I can help him learn how to do a liquid titration.

 

Any thoughts/tips would be very much appreciated.

 

Thanks to all in advance,

 

Workin

Brian- I'm glad you went for the consultation. It seems like he has a good plan for his patients. I just wish it was more flexible for you, that you could go once a month or as needed. I see a doctor who isn't covered by insurance. It costs $175 a visit. I only go when I feel like I've hit a wall, otherwise I can email him and he gets back to me within a day. Did you ask him why the rigidity or was that a conversation you could tell he wasn't open to?

 

Rek - Thanks for the update on JKS and for everything you offer us here in the way of knowledge and reassurance.

And JKS I am holding you tight right now, my fellow mama traveler.

 

Workinitout Hi, there. I am near the end of my taper from klonopin. I switched over to a compounded liquid at .125mg and that's worked pretty well for me. I think the end is only 'harder' because it's the end and you've already been at it a long time. The tendency is to rush and that's where many of us run into trouble. I think 10% almost all the way down and holding for 10-14 days is a good approach. I wanted to go faster, thought I'd be off by September then by Halloween, then by Thanksgiving and now I honestly don't even know if I'll be off before Christmas. And I'm (mostly) ok with that because my days are really pretty ok for the most part and I want to keep it that way. I guess I've come to believe that slow and low are the ways to go. Many people on BB talk about a symptoms based taper - you cut in a way your body can handle. There are some here who've done a daily taper and have been very successful with that. Hopefully, they'll chime in. Best of luck to you and your friend.

 

Ok, KK-

It's about time for bed. I've been having very minimal symptoms, a touch of trouble with my vision and some low level unrelenting fear. I've been living life a little too fully and think all the sugar and stress (good and bad) are starting to catch up with me. I've got to dial it back even though I feel compelled to get out there and live loudly. Message to self - "You are getting better, but you are not there yet."

 

I truly love you all.

Peace2

 

 

Good morning K Klubers   I think its been well said, Workinitout, but just let me reiterate... 10% of your current dose every 10-14 days is a very forgiving road. I have no doubt in my own mind that liquid is a smoother ride but the general idea of cutting only 1/10th at a time and holding there till you see how your body is going to react allows for personal sensitivities not matter how you cut.  It was my experience, as well, that once I reached .5... things got loopier by the day... but I can't say the same for these very low doses.  I'm much better.  I am cutting more than 10% now but still holding 10-14 days.  I've been told any sx at this point are not real but I think I'll reserve the right to judge that.  Mostly, just minor ax, muscle rigidity and that PTSD feeling of not wanting to say anything.  People think I'm not listening. I run out of things to say and then i babble... so people pick up on it as my not being quite right but mostly... things are pretty good. (I think.)  An occasional headache and I do get very tired and despondent over the muscle stuff but everything is so much better than the same time last year so I feel pretty good about that.  I don't worry any longer about how long this is going to take... I have enough powder to live on fumes for a while if I have to but mostly... I'm at .021 and expect to be done in the not too distant future.  Welcome and good luck to your friend.    Njoy

Hello all,

I have been having somewhat "okay" few months.. well, of course when I say "okay" it means shit but you can get somewhat used to feeling shit all the time.

But, I didn't have my top1 worst symptom for months so it felt like I was in heaven lol.

Yesterday it started SUDDENLY and now I have no idea how long it takes and it already ruins Christmas for me. It's the constant prickling, stinging, shooting "nerve" pain in my feet and hands/fingers. It's like 10 different pain feelings never know what kind is next and it makes me not wanna do anything. Cause what's the point doing something with your hands when you feel like you had your hands in beehive and fought against cactus after that.. lol

It's not something I ate.. nope.. it's just random.

 

hpc

Thanks for the reply Hopeful! My Dr. actually just wrote a script for a liquid suspension that the pharmacy puts together, so I don't have to worry about doing that myself, thank goodness. It looks like we started K about the same time in 2012. Since you're further along, how are you doing?

 

My main issue is anxiety/panic, that was definitely there before I started klon. My Dr. has been pushing me to focus my energy on the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy right now. Does anyone who's been in my situation have any thoughts or opinions on this? For example: Did CBT help you through this? Thanks folks.

Wondernova:  welcome    About CBT:  I can't say enough about my experience w/ it.  Like meditation, I'd had some experience w/ it in the past but not like I needed w/ this.  Firstly, it has given me something to do, a way to spend my time, working on myself when there was little else I could do.  Secondly, its been strategic in helping me persevere, overcoming when I thought I had nothing left to overcome with.  I, especially, found it helpful w/ the agoraphobia I had several months ago.  I suppose, like so much else with this, it would have passed in time anyway, but I needed to be able to function and I could not get out the door... at one point I said, "enough of this ...."  I'm walking out of here... I got to the door and passed out, falling on concrete steps.  I cried for days thinking it was going to be the rest of my life; and then I discovered ACT... a kind of CBT.  Acceptance, Commitment, Therapy.  It worked and slowly, even now, its fragile, but I overcame it.  I now use it to help me w/ some very deep seated neuroses that I'm convinced are behind all the ax.  I think I first read about it on here and then followed up on my own.  Its not a pill and it does take acceptance and commitment but it is a process and IMO, it works. If you live in a metropolitan area, you likely have therapists who could work w/ you.  I live in a rural area and so reading was my primary source for information.  I have always believed that understanding as much as I can about my problem was  a good place to start.  It may be true that some of us (me) can live too much in our heads and that can become problematic but there are times when we can be our own best ally and CBT is one of them.    I would urge you to pursue CBT in whatever way is available and meaningful for you.   Njoy

Hi KK friends,

It's back. I tempted it, I know that. I woke up in tears. It's depression, it's always been the depression. No depression for 10 years prior to the benzos and then bam. It was better for awhile. I thought getting off the klonopin was helping. I'm at such a low dose, so why the depression? I'm hoping it's just hormonal and will pass quickly. But I've got to heed the call and slow down my taper, for now, I guess.

 

Peace2

Njoy: Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm glad you're getting better. Knowing that people are getting through this is the only thing keeping me going right now. I'm a few weeks into a CBT program through my healthcare provider, and it's getting tough. I keep hearing and reading that it gets tougher before it gets easier, so I'm remaining hopeful. Right now the hardest thing is getting my nervous system to believe that me heart is healthy. My mind knows it, all my tests are normal, I'm exercising for exposure therapy, however I'm panicking numerous times a day, and generally feel like a heart attack is imminent most of the day. I have a feeling a lot of folks here have this problem too. I guess all I can do is stick with the program, and let time do it's thing. Peace.

Wondernova, yes, I'm afraid it does get worse before it gets better but it does get better and CBT will help you get there.  The only reason I knew there was nothing wrong w/ my heart was that I'd listen to it... strong and steady.  Its an awful thing to not be able to trust yourself but I think you can learn ways to super-vent your own mind.  I did so by using a stethoscope and as you mentioned, exposure therapy.  Exercise was not one of the things I used, however.  I had to almost completely stop exercising for several months... I'm back at it, now, but it would really ramp ax when I tried for a while there. 

Peace, as you know I'm not a medical person so anything I say has to be taken w/ a grain of salt but I do journal and I've noticed that when I feel depressed or lethargic is usually after I've overexerted myself either physically or mentally... stress will do it and so will trying to be too active.  It really is a tightrope we walk.  I'd say... try to keep track of what you do and when it happens... I think my system just gets too exhausted and I feel bad that I can't do anything again but I'm convinced it can be controlled and since I've been trying to do that... its better... not gone... I still have days but not wks when I can't get up or get motivated and for me, anyway, I don't think its a true depression.  There are still things I love to do... I can get stuff that absolutely has to be done, done and it doesn't last for extended periods.  My news is today was the first day that I drove in precarious conditions and was not so stressed out by it that I collapsed.  I got home and was able to do some things today.  That's a big breakthrough for me.